[me too] certification [Was: mod_perl advocacy project resurrection]

[Paul <yd...@yahoo.com>]

First, the gratuitous "me, too!"
As fair warning, there's little more than that in terms of valid
content here, but if you're still interested in reading the rest....

--- "J. J. Horner" <jh...@2jnetworks.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:22:26PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > >>>>> "Gunther" == Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com> writes:
> > Gunther> This is exactly why someone experienced in training (ie
> > Gunther> Randal/StoneHenge) would hopefully be the ones to take the
> > Gunther> torch on this. If there's anyone I would trust a
> > Gunther> certification from, it would be them.
> > 
> > We've considered the certification route from time to time, but
> > other than being a money maker for us (which isn't all that bad
> > of a deal :-),
> > I'm still not entirely convinced that the community of *ours*
> > would demand certification in any distinguishing way.
> > 
> > I mean, until I can demonstrate that people with certs are likely
> > to get hired faster or make more money, what's the point?  As it is
> > now, good mod_perl people are hard enough to find that the
jobseeker
> > already has the advantage.
> > 
> > I'm very open to being convinced otherwise though.
> > 
> 
> I'd be interested in something like this.  For a low price
> ($50-$100),

I would do that. In fact, I would probably pay more.

> I'd take a list of activities from your website, complete the
> activities, submit my code back to you, and let you grade me,
> and then send me some form of certificate saying
> "Certified mod_perl hacker" with Stonehenge and the famous
> merlyn signing it.

I'd be a little less eager about the sort of simple multiple choice
that would be easiest to automate, but even that would suffice.

> If we could get Doug and Lincoln to sign off on the list of
> activities,  the certification couldn't get more genuine than that.

Agreed.

[snip]
> How many technologies have the actual creator as part of the
> certification process?  It could only help.

I don't know about "only", but I second the sentiment.

I would love to be able to list on my resum� that I was Perl and
mod_perl certified. How about publicity in the form of a page listing
certified Perl/modPerl coders on take23, with contact info if they
like? Great for getting those job offers.


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Re: [me too] certification [Was: mod_perl advocacy project resurrection]

[Jay Jacobs <ja...@lach.net>]

> > On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:22:26PM -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> > > 
> > > I mean, until I can demonstrate that people with certs are likely
> > > to get hired faster or make more money, what's the point?  As it is
> > > now, good mod_perl people are hard enough to find that the
> > > jobseeker already has the advantage.

"The jobseeker already has the advantage" is the key phrase.  I think the
general idea is to balance that out and broaden both the job market for
mod_perl folks, and the talent pool of mod_perl programmers.  At this
point, IMO certification is the end of the line, the destination.  What we
need is a path to the destination.  We want to generate enough interest
and (dare I say) marketability of mod_perl to warrant certification.  
Articles are helpful, but when was the last time you saw a corporate
big-wig reading TPJ or Perl Month?  I'm sure it happens, but what about
getting an article in the big trade rags?  Slipping something in
Ziff-Davis rags, the things that sit on their desk and coffee tables...

> > I'd take a list of activities from your website, complete the
> > activities, submit my code back to you, and let you grade me,

<snip>

Copy and paste works wonders in the web.  You'd need heavy code-commenting
or a detailed explanation from the person (preferably in person) of the
code they "wrote".  It's the right path, just need to prepare for the
lowest common denomenator.

> I'd be a little less eager about the sort of simple multiple choice
> that would be easiest to automate, but even that would suffice.

Or a good combination thereof.

> I would love to be able to list on my resum� that I was Perl and
> mod_perl certified. How about publicity in the form of a page listing
> certified Perl/modPerl coders on take23, with contact info if they
> like? Great for getting those job offers.

From an employer's standpoint, that's an awful statement to read.  If I
hire a certified perl/mod_perl person, I'd like to believe that they're
with my company, and not reviewing other job offers continually, if
the site could evolve to "available certified folks"... that would
be a much better solution.  See point #1 above.

Jay Jacobs

Re: [me too] certification [Was: mod_perl advocacy project resurrection]

[Matt Sergeant <ma...@sergeant.org>]

On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Paul wrote:

> I would love to be able to list on my resumé that I was Perl and
> mod_perl certified. How about publicity in the form of a page listing
> certified Perl/modPerl coders on take23, with contact info if they
> like? Great for getting those job offers.

We will be doing jobs and resumes on there when I get some tuits to do a
bit more coding on the site, maybe over xmas. What I'd love to be able to
provide is some sort of auto-matcher for employers/employees, but thats
way up there right now.

-- 
<Matt/>

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