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Posted to user@cayenne.apache.org by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> on 2007/03/14 17:50:29 UTC
[OT] Maven in Cayenne
Folks,
This is a bit OT, but I know there are a few or maybe more power
users of Maven on this list. We are having a little chat whether to
ditch Maven as an internal build system [1], [2]. Feel free to
comment if you have constructive ideas, but no flames please - we are
really trying to make a decision on the build system, and this is
what matters :-)
Andrus
[1] (list of complaints) http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/lists/cayenne-
devel/2007/03/0064.html
[2] (thread root) http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/lists/cayenne-devel/
2007/03/0047.html
Re: [OT] Maven in Cayenne
Posted by Michael Gentry <bl...@gmail.com>.
Are "unstable" and "unpredictable" really the right words you want to
describe your software builds? :-)
/dev/mrg
On 3/15/07, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org> wrote:
> Right - to summarize my main complaint about Maven in two words,
> those would be "unstable" and "unpredictable". It was also "obscure"
> initially, but now after a year of poking through the sources and
> writing a few plugins, it is mostly the first two.
>
> Andrus
Re: [OT] Maven in Cayenne
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
On Mar 15, 2007, at 12:59 PM, jerome moliere wrote:
> In fact I just want to warn a big problem (like the cocoon members
> wrote in
> their build notes) it seems that Maven has some strange behaviours,
> very
> dispappointing when using continuus integration you may see several
> alerts
> (by mail) then one report telling that everything is ok..you
> changed nothing
> in your code and a test stops failing...
> Problem is clearly not about philosophy, because the idea is very
> interesting, convention over configuration is an evident
> idea...Everybody
> prefers convention over tons from xml code isn't it ?
Right - to summarize my main complaint about Maven in two words,
those would be "unstable" and "unpredictable". It was also "obscure"
initially, but now after a year of poking through the sources and
writing a few plugins, it is mostly the first two.
Andrus
Re: [OT] Maven in Cayenne
Posted by jerome moliere <je...@gmail.com>.
2007/3/14, Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>:
>
> Hello!
>
> 2007/3/14, jerome moliere <je...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > Hi Andrus,
> > what a good question -)
> > Maven is quite a dream, the idea is perfect, its powerful and quite easy
> > to
> > use...
> > But it can be a nightmare while trying to make serious unit tests,
> please
> > refer to the Cocoon build notes for pleasant notes, or find the blog
> from
> > my
> > friend Stephane Bailliez member from the Joost team where he deals with
> > this
> > subject... Joost seems to keep an old solution based on ANT + Ivy
> ..Works
> > well...
>
>
>
> From what I read (it took me a while), I feel that Stephane will always be
> on the rebel side (star wars) or in opposition (politics).
not so sure , example given he loves windows -)
I am sure he has
> more experience than me in Maven 2 philosophy.
In fact I just want to warn a big problem (like the cocoon members wrote in
their build notes) it seems that Maven has some strange behaviours, very
dispappointing when using continuus integration you may see several alerts
(by mail) then one report telling that everything is ok..you changed nothing
in your code and a test stops failing...
Problem is clearly not about philosophy, because the idea is very
interesting, convention over configuration is an evident idea...Everybody
prefers convention over tons from xml code isn't it ?
But until I learn something
> better to manage corporate artifact dependencies (and 3rd party for that
> matter), I will continue to learn Maven. I do have a tough skin. I will
> look
> at Ivy also, I am not a religious person.
Ivy makes it easy for a while now...(I know this tool since 3 years ), you
don't have to throw your ANT knowledge to be familiar with a new
technology..
No other comments...
> > Oops just a small one, running after the latest release of any library
> in
> > the Maven repositories is quite boring, Spring 2 M 4 is available but
> not
> > final release, Hibernate 3.2 but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2... Installing
> manually
> > jars on local repositories is a feature but should be quite rare while
> its
> > permanent...
>
>
>
> Not quite true. Look at
> http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.springframework/spring
> <dependency>
> <groupId>org.springframework</groupId>
> <artifactId>spring</artifactId>
> <version>2.0.3</version>
> </dependency>
>
> You just have to know the right groupId. Same for Hibernate. The above
> search site can help. Manually installing/deploying a jar is a 20 seconds
> process. I see no down thumbs in that. A correctly laid out corporate
> repository (Artifactory) might help - I am still looking at options.
>
> Having no big projects experience with Maven I can not judge. Personally,
> I
> will walk down the M street for a while - I hope it is not a one way ;-)
your pointer is interesting (thanks) but I just want to say that these
dependencies problems are quite from the packages stability while installing
software on Unix machine, dependencies, bad packages configuration and you
can reinstall your box...I don't have time to loose with finding the good
package in the good release
I was an ubuntu enthusiast since 3 years but since several packages
dependencies made by aliens I decided to switch all my machines to
solaris...While working on quite large projects I don't want to waste time
with minor problems..
My 2 cents
Jerome
--
Jerome Moliere - Mentor/J
http://romjethoughts.blogspot.com/
auteur Eyrolles
Re: [OT] Maven in Cayenne
Posted by Borut Bolčina <bo...@gmail.com>.
Hello!
2007/3/14, jerome moliere <je...@gmail.com>:
>
> Hi Andrus,
> what a good question -)
> Maven is quite a dream, the idea is perfect, its powerful and quite easy
> to
> use...
> But it can be a nightmare while trying to make serious unit tests, please
> refer to the Cocoon build notes for pleasant notes, or find the blog from
> my
> friend Stephane Bailliez member from the Joost team where he deals with
> this
> subject... Joost seems to keep an old solution based on ANT + Ivy ..Works
> well...
>From what I read (it took me a while), I feel that Stephane will always be
on the rebel side (star wars) or in opposition (politics). I am sure he has
more experience than me in Maven 2 philosophy. But until I learn something
better to manage corporate artifact dependencies (and 3rd party for that
matter), I will continue to learn Maven. I do have a tough skin. I will look
at Ivy also, I am not a religious person.
No other comments...
> Oops just a small one, running after the latest release of any library in
> the Maven repositories is quite boring, Spring 2 M 4 is available but not
> final release, Hibernate 3.2 but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2... Installing manually
> jars on local repositories is a feature but should be quite rare while its
> permanent...
Not quite true. Look at
http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.springframework/spring
<dependency>
<groupId>org.springframework</groupId>
<artifactId>spring</artifactId>
<version>2.0.3</version>
</dependency>
You just have to know the right groupId. Same for Hibernate. The above
search site can help. Manually installing/deploying a jar is a 20 seconds
process. I see no down thumbs in that. A correctly laid out corporate
repository (Artifactory) might help - I am still looking at options.
Having no big projects experience with Maven I can not judge. Personally, I
will walk down the M street for a while - I hope it is not a one way ;-)
Cheers,
Borut
Re: [OT] Maven in Cayenne
Posted by jerome moliere <je...@gmail.com>.
2007/3/14, Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>:
>
> Folks,
>
> This is a bit OT, but I know there are a few or maybe more power
> users of Maven on this list. We are having a little chat whether to
> ditch Maven as an internal build system [1], [2]. Feel free to
> comment if you have constructive ideas, but no flames please - we are
> really trying to make a decision on the build system, and this is
> what matters :-)
Hi Andrus,
what a good question -)
Maven is quite a dream, the idea is perfect, its powerful and quite easy to
use...
But it can be a nightmare while trying to make serious unit tests, please
refer to the Cocoon build notes for pleasant notes, or find the blog from my
friend Stephane Bailliez member from the Joost team where he deals with this
subject... Joost seems to keep an old solution based on ANT + Ivy ..Works
well...
No other comments...
Oops just a small one, running after the latest release of any library in
the Maven repositories is quite boring, Spring 2 M 4 is available but not
final release, Hibernate 3.2 but not 3.2.1 or 3.2.2... Installing manually
jars on local repositories is a feature but should be quite rare while its
permanent...
My 2 pieces
Jerome
Andrus
>
> [1] (list of complaints) http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/lists/cayenne-
> devel/2007/03/0064.html
> [2] (thread root) http://objectstyle.org/cayenne/lists/cayenne-devel/
> 2007/03/0047.html
>
--
Jerome Moliere - Mentor/J
http://romjethoughts.blogspot.com/
auteur Eyrolles