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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Bob Jamison <rj...@lincom-asg.com> on 2001/07/15 22:29:19 UTC
Re: Project idea
Cory L Hubert wrote:
> I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on
>cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to
>start to develop and market information rich websites and services that
>reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc.
>
> There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world.
>It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and
>outperform the Big Name DB vendors.
> An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow
>anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making
>enterprise.
>
> Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for
>Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria.
> I've already mentioned.
>
> 1. Object or Object/Relational DB.
> 2. Support for SQL/OQL
> 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: David Duddleston [mailto:david@i2a.com]
>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM
>To: general@jakarta.apache.org
>Subject: RE: Project idea
>
>
>
>There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn
>thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the
>license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even
>change to LGPL.
>
>hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small
>projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important.
>Hopefully it will pick up some momentum.
>
>I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database),
>or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would
>love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe
>someday ;-)
>
>-david
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tal Dayan [mailto:tal@zapta.com]
>>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM
>>To: general@jakarta.apache.org
>>Subject: Project idea
>>
>>
>>
>>Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java
>>relational data base ?
>>
>>If not, a project like that will be a great
>>addition to the Jakarta family.
>>
>>
>>Tal
>>
>>
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>
>
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>
Hey, maybe take a look at
http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB
They have been hinting about making it open for a
long time now, and maybe they could use some
help doing so.
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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
Posted by "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>.
burtonator at burton@relativity.yi.org wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org> writes:
> <snip>
>
>> IMVHO, we shouldn't run after projects who, as you said, have a negative
>> inclination towards the Foundation. We have already enough stuff in our bags
>> to keep us busy forever, and although the project seems to be pretty cool, I
>> don't see a reason why we should incorporate it within our family.
>>
>> If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel
>> it's our task to go out and convince them to join us...
> <snip>
>
> Yes. I understand this perspective. However I think it is important to note
> that sometimes cooperation is much better than competition.
I didn't say we're going to compete with them... Actually we don't have any
RDBMS in our bag, and AFAIK we are not planning to have in the future...
So, there's no competition, and, regarding cooperation, it can only be
achieved when all parties involved are WILLING to cooperate...
>From what I hear, they're not very willing... And, as you well know, we're
always open to listen, but from that, to go around and convince people, it's
a big difference...
Pier
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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
Posted by burtonator <bu...@relativity.yi.org>.
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"Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org> writes:
<snip>
> IMVHO, we shouldn't run after projects who, as you said, have a negative
> inclination towards the Foundation. We have already enough stuff in our bags
> to keep us busy forever, and although the project seems to be pretty cool, I
> don't see a reason why we should incorporate it within our family.
>
> If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel
> it's our task to go out and convince them to join us...
<snip>
Yes. I understand this perspective. However I think it is important to note
that sometimes cooperation is much better than competition.
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org, burton@openprivacy.org, burtonator@acm.org )
Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596
Please don't use hard tabs in your code. Instead use 4 spaces.
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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
Posted by "Pier P. Fumagalli" <pi...@betaversion.org>.
burtonator at burton@relativity.yi.org wrote:
>
> Just an FYI.
>
> I have spent a lot of time recently working with the Hypersonic people.
>
> There are a number of issues here. It seems they talked to Apache in the past
> about moving Hypersonic under Jakarta but were turned down. Since then a lot
> has happened.
>
> [...]
>
> That said I hope other ASF developers are able to convince them to change
> their ways where I have failed. I am sure more voices will help make these
> issues more relevant.
IMVHO, we shouldn't run after projects who, as you said, have a negative
inclination towards the Foundation. We have already enough stuff in our bags
to keep us busy forever, and although the project seems to be pretty cool, I
don't see a reason why we should incorporate it within our family.
If one of their team comes up and asks, we can consider it, but I don't feel
it's our task to go out and convince them to join us...
<?xml version="1.0">
<dorkism source="uber geek">
Apache != Borg :)
</dorkism>
Pier
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Re: Project idea (Hypersonic)
Posted by burtonator <bu...@relativity.yi.org>.
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"Michael McCallum" <mi...@spinsoftware.com> writes:
> try this one with a BSD licence...
>
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsqldb
<snip>
Just an FYI.
I have spent a lot of time recently working with the Hypersonic people.
There are a number of issues here. It seems they talked to Apache in the past
about moving Hypersonic under Jakarta but were turned down. Since then a lot
has happened.
It would be a huge changed in direction for them to move to Jakarta. They are
creating a non-profit organization to push Hypersonic. It seems that they have
put a lot of effort into this and I assume they would be hesitant to waste this
when moving over to Apache.
The other aspect, and one that *really* bothers me is that they don't seem to
want to work under the Apache Open Source Development Model.
There CVS modules are all over the place, redundant modules, unnecessary
modules, modules which haven't had commits in months, etc. They also do not use
mailing lists, the use the SourceForge web forums. Anyone who is a fan of
mailing lists will really hate their use of webforums.
The other issue is that they have a company founded around Hypersonic and are
making all important decisions behind closed doors. This does not bode well for
the success of an Open Source project.
I have raised all these issues (and more) to them in an constructive manner but
they do not seem to want outside help. I really like Hypersonic but am very
doubtful about its future considering these facts.
That said I hope other ASF developers are able to convince them to change their
ways where I have failed. I am sure more voices will help make these issues
more relevant.
Kevin
- --
Kevin A. Burton ( burton@apache.org, burton@openprivacy.org, burtonator@acm.org )
Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org ICQ: 73488596
In the end, only kindness matters.
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Re: Project idea
Posted by Michael McCallum <mi...@spinsoftware.com>.
try this one with a BSD licence...
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hsqldb
On 15 Jul 2001, at 15:29, Bob Jamison wrote:
> Cory L Hubert wrote:
>
> > I think it's time for it as well. Oracle, DB2, Sybase are planning on
> >cashing in even bigger now. The .com crazy is over and people are going to
> >start to develop and market information rich websites and services that
> >reach out to cell phones/PDA's etc.
> >
> > There hasn't been much innovation going on in the Relational DB world.
> >It'd be nice to see an Open Source project catch up, innovate, and
> >outperform the Big Name DB vendors.
> > An Open Source java DB by a trusted Open Source Name (Apache) would allow
> >anyone to have a high end database solution without being a big money making
> >enterprise.
> >
> > Obviously I think this is a good idea. Why don't we create a list for
> >Open Source DB's to evaluate? Also some criteria.
> > I've already mentioned.
> >
> > 1. Object or Object/Relational DB.
> > 2. Support for SQL/OQL
> > 3. Support for the SUN JDO spec.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: David Duddleston [mailto:david@i2a.com]
> >Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 11:58 PM
> >To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> >Subject: RE: Project idea
> >
> >
> >
> >There is a pretty good Java SQL Relational DB called Mckoi, but the darn
> >thing is GPL and I have sent about 6 emails trying to get them to change the
> >license to an ASL or equivalent, but I have had no luck. They won't even
> >change to LGPL.
> >
> >hsql Database on sourceforge has a good license and works well for small
> >projects, but I don't know if I would trust it for anything important.
> >Hopefully it will pick up some momentum.
> >
> >I know Jetspeed (a Jakarta project) uses Hypersonic SQL (now hsql Database),
> >or at least used it the last time I check which was a long time ago. I would
> >love to see a solid Java RDBMS under a business friendly license. Maybe
> >someday ;-)
> >
> >-david
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Tal Dayan [mailto:tal@zapta.com]
> >>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 5:11 PM
> >>To: general@jakarta.apache.org
> >>Subject: Project idea
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Does Jakarta has anything close to an embedded pure Java
> >>relational data base ?
> >>
> >>If not, a project like that will be a great
> >>addition to the Jakarta family.
> >>
> >>
> >>Tal
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> Hey, maybe take a look at
>
> http://www.lutris.com/products/projects/instantDB
>
> They have been hinting about making it open for a
> long time now, and maybe they could use some
> help doing so.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
If the brain were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't
-- David Zindell
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