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Posted to dev@harmony.apache.org by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> on 2008/03/06 13:39:10 UTC
I'm Broken ;(
You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see as the future of Java, and
to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little pieces"... ha ha
Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've done plenty of C in my time,
cross platform coding is something else.
Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to start when faced with build
errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
Its trying but when something like this happens...
[exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) : error C
2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
in this code
extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on earth the ant script defines that.
I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some reason its trying to compile the
linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell the ant script to change that.
Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to IDE driven... that beats me.
All these dependencies... for me impossible.
So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and that you are working
damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the ability to even get it to a dev environment means
.... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal company use only... its a fun thing.
Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite is the future...
This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of applications.
With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
And also do not get confused here... delivering application and delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs, it just sucks down what the application needs.
Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch how fast the applications are delivered.
In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt totally open... I know JRELite will work.
Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API... http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
Best of luck to you.
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Xiao-Feng Li wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
>> > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
>>
>> I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
>
> I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
I was simply responding to your comment that the minimum requirement is
now MSVC2005. I wasn't suggesting that we *shouldn't* support later
versions.
>> I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
>> versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
>> those later versions to tell us what to change.
>
> Yes.
I applied changes I was told about to make MSVC 2005 work (e.g. quoted
as [1] below). Since I don't have that version I can't try it and fix
the problems.
Regards,
Tim
> Thanks,
> xiaofeng
>
>> [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>> > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
>> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > xiaofeng
>> >
>> > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Johnny,
>> >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
>> >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
>> >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
>> >>
>> >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
>> >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
>> >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
>> >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
>> >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>> >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
>> >> as the future of Java, and
>> >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
>> >> pieces"... ha ha
>> >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
>> >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
>> >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
>> >> done plenty of C in my time,
>> >>> cross platform coding is something else.
>> >>>
>> >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
>> >> start when faced with build
>> >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
>> >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
>> >>>
>> >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
>> >> error C
>> >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
>> >>>
>> >>> in this code
>> >>>
>> >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
>> >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
>> >>>
>> >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
>> >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
>> >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
>> >> earth the ant script defines that.
>> >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
>> >> reason its trying to compile the
>> >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
>> >> the ant script to change that.
>> >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
>> >>>
>> >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
>> >> IDE driven... that beats me.
>> >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
>> >>>
>> >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
>> >> that you are working
>> >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
>> >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
>> >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
>> >>>
>> >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
>> >> company use only... its a fun thing.
>> >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
>> >> is the future...
>> >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
>> >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
>> >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
>> >> applications.
>> >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
>> >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
>> >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
>> >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
>> >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
>> >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
>> >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
>> >> how fast the applications are delivered.
>> >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
>> >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
>> >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
>> >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
>> >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
>> >>> Best of luck to you.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> With best regards,
>> >> Alexei
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:14 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
> > > >
> > > > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
> > >
> > > I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> > > build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> > > should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
> > >
> >
> > Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
> > supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
> > but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
>
> That the documentation doesn't say doesn't mean the users won't try.
> We should be realistic and Harmony should be user-friendly. It's year
> 2008 now. If the documentation doesn't say Harmony supports
> application HelloWorld, can't the users try it? ;)
>
Please don't use the "it's year 2008" argument, ugh. We've been using
VS2003 since the beginning, so heard the "year 2006" and "year 2007"
arguments, but we're still on it.
Like Tim suggested, let's see the contributions.
-Nathan
> Thanks,
> xiaofeng
>
>
>
> > -Nathan
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
> > > > versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
> > > > those later versions to tell us what to change.
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > xiaofeng
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> > > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > xiaofeng
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >> Johnny,
> > > > >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> > > > >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> > > > >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> > > > >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> > > > >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> > > > >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> > > > >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> > > > >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> > > > >> as the future of Java, and
> > > > >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> > > > >> pieces"... ha ha
> > > > >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> > > > >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> > > > >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> > > > >> done plenty of C in my time,
> > > > >>> cross platform coding is something else.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> > > > >> start when faced with build
> > > > >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> > > > >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> > > > >> error C
> > > > >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> in this code
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> > > > >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> > > > >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> > > > >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> > > > >> earth the ant script defines that.
> > > > >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> > > > >> reason its trying to compile the
> > > > >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> > > > >> the ant script to change that.
> > > > >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> > > > >> IDE driven... that beats me.
> > > > >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> > > > >> that you are working
> > > > >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> > > > >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> > > > >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> > > > >> company use only... its a fun thing.
> > > > >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> > > > >> is the future...
> > > > >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> > > > >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> > > > >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> > > > >> applications.
> > > > >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> > > > >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> > > > >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> > > > >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> > > > >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> > > > >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> > > > >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> > > > >> how fast the applications are delivered.
> > > > >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> > > > >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> > > > >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> > > > >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> > > > >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> > > > >>> Best of luck to you.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> --
> > > > >> With best regards,
> > > > >> Alexei
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 4:04 AM, Gregory Shimansky <gs...@apache.org> wrote:
> Xiao-Feng Li said the following on 07.03.2008 7:14:
>
> > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
> >> > >
> >> > > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
> >> >
> >> > I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> >> > build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> >> > should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
> >> supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
> >> but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
> >
> > That the documentation doesn't say doesn't mean the users won't try.
> > We should be realistic and Harmony should be user-friendly. It's year
> > 2008 now. If the documentation doesn't say Harmony supports
> > application HelloWorld, can't the users try it? ;)
>
> I agree. Also there is a problem with getting VS2003 since it is no
> longer available for free from MS. BTW, the current version is not even
> VS2005, MS provides it as an "old version" and may discontinue its
> download at any moment. The current version is VS2008 and we didn't even
> try to use it yet.
>
So, is VS2008 what we should target? Is the "free" tool chain
sufficient? I believe we can get some licenses for committers that
might be more seriously interested.
-Nathan
> --
> Gregory
>
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Gregory Shimansky <gs...@apache.org>.
Xiao-Feng Li said the following on 07.03.2008 7:14:
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
>> > > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
>> > >
>> > > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
>> >
>> > I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
>> > build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
>> > should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
>> >
>>
>> Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
>> supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
>> but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
>
> That the documentation doesn't say doesn't mean the users won't try.
> We should be realistic and Harmony should be user-friendly. It's year
> 2008 now. If the documentation doesn't say Harmony supports
> application HelloWorld, can't the users try it? ;)
I agree. Also there is a problem with getting VS2003 since it is no
longer available for free from MS. BTW, the current version is not even
VS2005, MS provides it as an "old version" and may discontinue its
download at any moment. The current version is VS2008 and we didn't even
try to use it yet.
--
Gregory
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
> > >
> > > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
> >
> > I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> > build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> > should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
> >
>
> Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
> supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
> but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
That the documentation doesn't say doesn't mean the users won't try.
We should be realistic and Harmony should be user-friendly. It's year
2008 now. If the documentation doesn't say Harmony supports
application HelloWorld, can't the users try it? ;)
Thanks,
xiaofeng
> -Nathan
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > > I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
> > > versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
> > > those later versions to tell us what to change.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > xiaofeng
> >
> >
> >
> > > [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > xiaofeng
> > > >
> > > > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Johnny,
> > > >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> > > >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> > > >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
> > > >>
> > > >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> > > >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> > > >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> > > >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> > > >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> > > >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> > > >> as the future of Java, and
> > > >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> > > >> pieces"... ha ha
> > > >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> > > >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> > > >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> > > >> done plenty of C in my time,
> > > >>> cross platform coding is something else.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> > > >> start when faced with build
> > > >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> > > >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> > > >> error C
> > > >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> > > >>>
> > > >>> in this code
> > > >>>
> > > >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> > > >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> > > >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> > > >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> > > >> earth the ant script defines that.
> > > >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> > > >> reason its trying to compile the
> > > >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> > > >> the ant script to change that.
> > > >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> > > >> IDE driven... that beats me.
> > > >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> > > >> that you are working
> > > >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> > > >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> > > >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> > > >> company use only... its a fun thing.
> > > >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> > > >> is the future...
> > > >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> > > >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> > > >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> > > >> applications.
> > > >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> > > >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> > > >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> > > >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> > > >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> > > >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> > > >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> > > >> how fast the applications are delivered.
> > > >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> > > >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> > > >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> > > >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> > > >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> > > >>> Best of luck to you.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> With best regards,
> > > >> Alexei
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
> >
>
--
http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
Alexey Varlamov wrote:
> 2008/3/7, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>:
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
>>> > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
>>> >
>>> > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
>>>
>>> I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
>>> build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
>>> should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
>>>
>> Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
>> supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
>> but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
>
> I do not think so, IMO people just assume backward compatibility for
> VS2005 (or read docs cursorily at times). We might add more prominent
> warning about VS2005 to avoid frustration until the situation
> improves. Another source of complaints, I guess, is missing Platform
> SDK - unexperienced user may confuse it with MSVS or think it is a
> part of the latter. But both are listed in the reqs.
>
> BTW, any volunteers to summarize recent gust of issues to FAQ?
Better yet, anyone who has that, or the later version, can raise issues
and help us fix it so it works on more compilers.
Regards,
Tim
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Alexey Varlamov <al...@gmail.com>.
2008/3/7, Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
> > >
> > > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
> >
> > I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> > build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> > should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
> >
>
> Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
> supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
> but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
I do not think so, IMO people just assume backward compatibility for
VS2005 (or read docs cursorily at times). We might add more prominent
warning about VS2005 to avoid frustration until the situation
improves. Another source of complaints, I guess, is missing Platform
SDK - unexperienced user may confuse it with MSVS or think it is a
part of the latter. But both are listed in the reqs.
BTW, any volunteers to summarize recent gust of issues to FAQ?
--
Alexey
>
> -Nathan
>
> >
> >
> > > I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
> > > versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
> > > those later versions to tell us what to change.
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > xiaofeng
> >
> >
> >
> > > [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> > > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > xiaofeng
> > > >
> > > > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> Johnny,
> > > >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> > > >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> > > >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
> > > >>
> > > >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> > > >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> > > >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> > > >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> > > >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> > > >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> > > >> as the future of Java, and
> > > >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> > > >> pieces"... ha ha
> > > >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> > > >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> > > >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> > > >> done plenty of C in my time,
> > > >>> cross platform coding is something else.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> > > >> start when faced with build
> > > >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> > > >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> > > >> error C
> > > >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> > > >>>
> > > >>> in this code
> > > >>>
> > > >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> > > >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> > > >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> > > >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> > > >> earth the ant script defines that.
> > > >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> > > >> reason its trying to compile the
> > > >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> > > >> the ant script to change that.
> > > >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> > > >> IDE driven... that beats me.
> > > >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> > > >> that you are working
> > > >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> > > >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> > > >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> > > >>>
> > > >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> > > >> company use only... its a fun thing.
> > > >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> > > >> is the future...
> > > >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> > > >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> > > >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> > > >> applications.
> > > >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> > > >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> > > >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> > > >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> > > >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> > > >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> > > >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> > > >> how fast the applications are delivered.
> > > >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> > > >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> > > >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> > > >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> > > >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> > > >>> Best of luck to you.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> With best regards,
> > > >> Alexei
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
> >
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Nathan Beyer <nb...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:43 PM, Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> > > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
> >
> > I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
>
> I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
> build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
> should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
>
Does the build documentation say that anything besides VS2003 is
supported? I agree that we should try to get things working on VS2005,
but is there a problem in our documentation that's confusing people?
-Nathan
>
>
> > I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
> > versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
> > those later versions to tell us what to change.
>
> Yes.
>
> Thanks,
> xiaofeng
>
>
>
> > [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
> >
> > Regards,
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> > > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > xiaofeng
> > >
> > > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> Johnny,
> > >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> > >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> > >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
> > >>
> > >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> > >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> > >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> > >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> > >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> > >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> > >> as the future of Java, and
> > >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> > >> pieces"... ha ha
> > >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> > >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> > >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> > >>>
> > >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> > >> done plenty of C in my time,
> > >>> cross platform coding is something else.
> > >>>
> > >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> > >> start when faced with build
> > >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> > >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
> > >>>
> > >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> > >> error C
> > >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> > >>>
> > >>> in this code
> > >>>
> > >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> > >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> > >>>
> > >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> > >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> > >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> > >> earth the ant script defines that.
> > >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> > >> reason its trying to compile the
> > >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> > >> the ant script to change that.
> > >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> > >>>
> > >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> > >> IDE driven... that beats me.
> > >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> > >>>
> > >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> > >> that you are working
> > >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> > >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> > >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> > >>>
> > >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> > >> company use only... its a fun thing.
> > >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> > >> is the future...
> > >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> > >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> > >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> > >> applications.
> > >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> > >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> > >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> > >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> > >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> > >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> > >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> > >> how fast the applications are delivered.
> > >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> > >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> > >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> > >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> > >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> > >>> Best of luck to you.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> With best regards,
> > >> Alexei
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Xiao-Feng Li <xi...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 10:56 PM, Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com> wrote:
> xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> > MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
>
> I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
I see almost all of those new Harmony users were frustrated by the
build failures with VS2005, so it's not only a developer's issue. We
should be realistic and Harmony better be user-friendly.
> I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
> versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
> those later versions to tell us what to change.
Yes.
Thanks,
xiaofeng
> [1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
>
> > Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
> >
> > Thanks,
> > xiaofeng
> >
> > On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Johnny,
> >> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> >> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> >> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
> >>
> >> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> >> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> >> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> >> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> >> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> >>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> >> as the future of Java, and
> >>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> >> pieces"... ha ha
> >>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> >> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> >>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> >>>
> >>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> >> done plenty of C in my time,
> >>> cross platform coding is something else.
> >>>
> >>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> >> start when faced with build
> >>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> >>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
> >>>
> >>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> >> error C
> >>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> >>>
> >>> in this code
> >>>
> >>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> >>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> >>>
> >>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> >> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> >>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> >> earth the ant script defines that.
> >>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> >> reason its trying to compile the
> >>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> >> the ant script to change that.
> >>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> >>>
> >>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> >> IDE driven... that beats me.
> >>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> >>>
> >>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> >> that you are working
> >>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> >> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> >>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> >>>
> >>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> >> company use only... its a fun thing.
> >>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> >> is the future...
> >>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> >> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> >>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> >> applications.
> >>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> >> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> >>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> >> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> >>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> >> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> >>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> >> how fast the applications are delivered.
> >>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> >> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> >>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> >> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> >> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> >>> Best of luck to you.
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> With best regards,
> >> Alexei
> >>
> >
> >
>
--
http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Tim Ellison <t....@gmail.com>.
xiaofeng.li@gmail.com wrote:
> MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
I am running fine on MS VStudio 2003.
I'm sure people would be happy to update the code to run on any later
versions too, as we have in the past [1]. We just need people with
those later versions to tell us what to change.
[1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=591059
Regards,
Tim
> Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
>
> Thanks,
> xiaofeng
>
> On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Johnny,
>> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
>> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
>> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
>>
>> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
>> Or Cygwin's gcc?
>> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
>> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
>> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>>> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
>> as the future of Java, and
>>> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
>> pieces"... ha ha
>>> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
>> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
>>> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
>>>
>>> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
>> done plenty of C in my time,
>>> cross platform coding is something else.
>>>
>>> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
>> start when faced with build
>>> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
>>> Its trying but when something like this happens...
>>>
>>> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
>> error C
>>> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
>>>
>>> in this code
>>>
>>> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
>>> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
>>>
>>> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
>> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
>>> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
>> earth the ant script defines that.
>>> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
>> reason its trying to compile the
>>> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
>> the ant script to change that.
>>> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
>>>
>>> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
>> IDE driven... that beats me.
>>> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
>>>
>>> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
>> that you are working
>>> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
>> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
>>> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
>>>
>>> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
>> company use only... its a fun thing.
>>> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
>> is the future...
>>> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
>> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
>>> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
>> applications.
>>> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
>> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
>>> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
>> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
>>> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
>> it just sucks down what the application needs.
>>> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
>> how fast the applications are delivered.
>>> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
>> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
>>> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
>> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
>> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
>>> Best of luck to you.
>>
>>
>> --
>> With best regards,
>> Alexei
>>
>
>
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by xi...@gmail.com.
MSVC2005 is a minimum requirement now, I think.
Link below is what I suggested 1.5 years ago:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/harmony-dev/200607.mbox/%3c9623c9a50607061939g5ef5c5ecr2c4389dfb25977ca@mail.gmail.com%3e
Thanks,
xiaofeng
On 3/6/08, Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Johnny,
> You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
> learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
> Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
>
> All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
> Or Cygwin's gcc?
> J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
> Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
> look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> > You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see
> as the future of Java, and
> > to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little
> pieces"... ha ha
> >
> > Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
> pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> > I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
> >
> > Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've
> done plenty of C in my time,
> > cross platform coding is something else.
> >
> > Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to
> start when faced with build
> > errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> > Its trying but when something like this happens...
> >
> > [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) :
> error C
> > 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
> >
> > in this code
> >
> > extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> > hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
> >
> > I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not
> defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> > a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on
> earth the ant script defines that.
> >
> > I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some
> reason its trying to compile the
> > linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell
> the ant script to change that.
> > Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
> >
> > How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to
> IDE driven... that beats me.
> > All these dependencies... for me impossible.
> >
> > So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> that you are working
> > damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the
> ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> > .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
> >
> > We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal
> company use only... its a fun thing.
> >
> > Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite
> is the future...
> > This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like
> EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> > ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of
> applications.
> > With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there
> is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> > And also do not get confused here... delivering application and
> delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> > BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs,
> it just sucks down what the application needs.
> > Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch
> how fast the applications are delivered.
> > In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt
> totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> > Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way
> for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API...
> http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
> >
> > Best of luck to you.
>
>
>
> --
> With best regards,
> Alexei
>
--
http://xiao-feng.blogspot.com
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Alexei Fedotov <al...@gmail.com>.
Johnny,
You are welcome to return when you get some rest. I believe anyone can
learn how to build a Harmony provided he has enough time and passion.
Thank you for your energy and enthusiasm.
All, do we want to switch to something newer? MSVC 2005? Or MSVC 2008?
Or Cygwin's gcc?
J9 funs, may J9 dependency from a specific runtime prove an issue?
Stepan, Alexey, CC owners, I'm asking you because enabling efforts
look lighter for me compared to BTI transition.
Thanks.
On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 3:39 PM, Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see as the future of Java, and
> to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little pieces"... ha ha
>
> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
>
> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though I've done plenty of C in my time,
> cross platform coding is something else.
>
> Have always used an IDE, and thats my problem, I just dont know where to start when faced with build
> errors... I just cant cant get it to compile on XP even now using VS 6
> Its trying but when something like this happens...
>
> [exec] E:\Harmony\working_classlib\deploy\include\hythread.h(137) : error C
> 2146: syntax error : missing ')' before identifier 'millis'
>
> in this code
>
> extern HY_CFUNC IDATA VMCALL
> hythread_sleep_interruptable PROTOTYPE ((I_64 millis, IDATA nanos));
>
> I know its not a real syntax error and that I_64 is probably not defined... then I follow the code back and it just becomes
> a whole bunch of cross platform defines... and then I wonder where on earth the ant script defines that.
>
> I tried all sorts of things and... even from VS 2005 and there for some reason its trying to compile the
> linux folders and not the win32... and I think where on earth do you tell the ant script to change that.
> Or is it hiding in a mak file... I now officially give up.
>
> How on earth does one go about bringing code back from ant driven.... to IDE driven... that beats me.
> All these dependencies... for me impossible.
>
> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and that you are working
> damn hard, but the size of this project and my skill levels lacking the ability to even get it to a dev environment means
> .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
>
> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means internal company use only... its a fun thing.
>
> Just before I go, I want to show you something and why I believe JRELite is the future...
> This technology is something your truely invented because we dont like EJB, now if you can just forget about that... we get flamed regularly
> ... the surprising thing that fell out of this was the delivery times of applications.
> With this technology applications all live on a central server, so there is no application installed in the company, they are delivered.
> And also do not get confused here... delivering application and delivering the API as suggested in JRELIte is NOT the same thing.
> BUT... it is using a similar principle, ie it does not install the JARs, it just sucks down what the application needs.
> Now if you degrade yourselves ;) and set this up on a MS system.... watch how fast the applications are delivered.
> In most cases, on a LAN... in under a second.... so you see, I wasnt totally open... I know JRELite will work.
> Its (if you can just forget about the competition with EJB)... a good way for you to see how your JreLite would work, when you deliver API... http://coolharbor.100free.com/index.htm
>
> Best of luck to you.
--
With best regards,
Alexei
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Mark Hindess <ma...@googlemail.com>.
On 6 March 2008 at 14:39, "Johnny Kewl" <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za> wrote:
>
> You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I
> see as the future of Java, and to do this, I'm going to take Harmony
> and "break it into little pieces"... ha ha
>
> Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into
> little pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
> I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
>
> Its a humungous ambitious beyond belief undertaking and even though
> I've done plenty of C in my time, cross platform coding is something
> else.
[Snipped sad tale that reminds me why my "IDE" is primarily a unix
command line with emacs, vi, gdb, perl, valgrind, etc.]
> So I leave you gurus to do your thing... I can see you damn good, and
> that you are working damn hard, but the size of this project and my
> skill levels lacking the ability to even get it to a dev environment
> means .... Harmony has kicked my butt ;)
In addition to any lasting impression Harmony may have left on you as
a result of the kicking, I'd like to point out that your contributions
here have had some very constructive ramifications on Harmony. For
example, the issue in the recently raised HARMONY-5556 had been at the
back of my mind for a while but now it is out there and undoubtedly it
will be addressed.
So I'm sorry to read that you are leaving us.
> We going try kludge JRELite from J2SE... but that really means
> internal company use only... its a fun thing.
Oh no. Why? Could you not still use Harmony/DRLVM?
Not sure what "kludge" you had in mind but even if the kludge is
specific to an application - perhaps some of the mechanisms to determine
what is required and what can be left out are still generic?
For instance, to over-simplify things completely, say you ran your
application using -verbose:class and processed the logs to produce a
list of used classes. You then took the list of classes and processed
the harmony jre to produce a version with only the used classes.
At least the tools to implement both of the instances of the word
"processed" in the above paragraph are actually fairly generic and could
be "open".
Of course the analysis in more typical case would undoubtedly need to do
more - static analysis to look for uses of reflection to load classes
but the result would still be a list of classes.
[Snip happy tale of http://coolharbor.100free.com/ ]
> Best of luck to you.
And to you.
Regards,
Mark.
Re: I'm Broken ;(
Posted by Johnny Kewl <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johnny Kewl" <jo...@kewlstuff.co.za>
You know when I first looked at this I said lets do JRELite, which I see as
the future of Java, and
to do this, I'm going to take Harmony and "break it into little pieces"...
ha ha
Well I stand before you humbled and broken, Harmony broke me into little
pieces, bashed my head against the wall and then drowned me ;)
I think it threw a few kicks in as well ;)
================================
I was actually unsubscribed, someone sent me a mail, and said, hey they
talking to you... ha ha
Just wanted to say, saw the replies... nice people here ;)
... and no one to blame, we only have a small IT section, even if we did get
it compiled, then what, would have to fork off anyway ;)
All that is showing in my frustration... the idea is too big for us.
We going to go for J2SE simply because as a "full" free standing JRE, if
there was such a thing, it has (currently) a better fine grained score.
That will change radically if you go the JRELite route.
It means we can get it going for biz use, because LANS can take a big hit,
but
it will never come close to a well thought out JreLite. It means, in our
technology that we can expand the API centrally as well, but
there will still be a very big initial hit... so thats what we up to,
getting our problem solved with the resources we have.
To my mind, this project has a high barrier to entry, and it understandable,
you guys work on it for five years and as it gets there, its kidnapped.
Open Source really is a strange creature... as a JRE I think Harmony will
always have a biz problem, a strategic problem.
JreLite however, is different... there it can be as open, you 'want' it to
be kidnapped.... its a different biz model.
Stick your most creative Techno-Biz artists on it... and you'll see, the
idea just gets bigger and bigger, a sign of a good plan in the making.
For instance, a lot of coders are completely frustrated with the barriers to
cell phones... and the industry keeps saying Moires law
on cell doesnt apply... that I dont believe, I think cell phone technology
is already capable of running JRE, and that the barriers are artificial
business barriers. When JreLite comes along with its 3 meg footprint, and
it only grows the engine as much as the application requires, and the
same applicaiton can run on your desktop, or cell... someone is going to
break the current biz model ;)
I think we will always have small single purpose devices, a tiny cell with
an address book, but there is already a huge market
for a talking PC in your pocket... and imagine, an engine that only grows to
the size of the application needed.
It means the programmer naturally controls that through the application
design... if he keeps it simple, the cell doesnt say, no more memory.
... and its easy to design "universal" applications...
The cell SDK will change.... if a programmer makes a small application that
fits into the top left corner of their screen, done!
It will make cell technology migrate to the desktop and laptop... gps,
mapping.... and its the "same" ;)
Its the birth of a new way of doing things... and it goes beyond a battle
for the JRE, I have a sneaky feeling that you'll find there is now
enough space for everyone... and that when you have it all "imagined",
you'll see the battle is being fought for different reasons.
... dont get too far away from the Sun model, because first you have to
become powerful, then you will become one, and
every Javanian will emit a huge sigh of relief ;)
If Apache makes a JreLite project, we're there, thats for sure.... the whole
planet will be there ;)
Fun stuff....