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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com> on 2016/09/02 14:59:55 UTC
What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
project to
continue moving forward.
What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
be
working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
direction?
How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
etc...
Phil
~~~
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>
>
>> The bad things are:
> - we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version.
> - we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac.
> - we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual
> machine)
> - we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac
> - and we need new devs in general
>
>
OK, something I've never been clear on. Does the ASF Infrastructure team
provide machines to build
on, or is it entirely up to us to get builds built "however"? If the
former, is there something we need from them today that we don't have? If
the latter, could this project acquire hardware and have it put in a colo
center or something, so
we have access to what we need? Or can we rent time in a cloud environment
somewhere?
Sorry for all the uninformed questions, I've just been really out of the
loop for a while. :-(
> And the best thing is:
> We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved
> functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road.
>
> Radical! Well that's something to be cheerful about anyway.
> This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only
> with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings. With a big porton of
> sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come home from work, find my
> inbox exploded and read about a good friend who has left the project due to
> this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-(
>
>
> Understood. No need to apologize for anything.
Phil
>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/02/2016 04:59 PM, schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
> project to
> continue moving forward.
hm, I can only hope that it the *very* most of us. ;-)
> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
> be
> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
> direction?
*In my eyes* it's pretty simple:
We need a new release to proof that we can survice as an Apache TLP.
The bad things are:
- we need a release manager for a 4.2.0 or 4.1.3 version.
- we need hardware to get builds for Wndows, Linux and Mac.
- we need a possibility to build on Mac (buildbot or an individual
machine)
- we need people who can help with build problems on Windows and Mac
- and we need new devs in general
But there are already good things:
- we have a few devs who can build on Linux
- we have a few devs who can work on Linux problems
- we have our buildbots in a more stable way compared with the past
months (not at 100% but we are working on it)
And the best thing is:
We have already enough food for a new release (many bugfixes, improved
functions, new translations). We just need to bring this onto the road.
> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> etc...
You should answer to this FUD when:
- you want to fight against all bad things that where written.
- you want to give everyone an answer.
- you have too much time and don't know what to do.
- you want to go to hospital due to a mental disorder which will come
quicker than you want.
You should *not* answer them when you want to get a different impression
into the people's head.
This fight you cannot win with words. You can convince the people only
with doings. And in our standoff we need hard doings.
With a big porton of sarcasm. I'm sorry for that. But it's hard to come
home from work, find my inbox exploded and read about a good friend who
has left the project due to this b**hit which is going on at the moment. ;-(
Marcus
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
We still need PackageMaker, from what I can tell, which is
really, really deprecated. Has anyone tried porting that
function to Packages or OSX's own pkgbuild?
But yes, I do have PackageMaker installed and worked around
the hardcoded path in configure... Why it does a strings on epm
and looks for a hardcoded path is beyond me. :)
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
>> configure to live in /Developer/.... Also some other nits...
>
> For epm you have two options:
>
> - use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball
>
> - build you own epm based on that very same version and
> with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm
>
>
> These are my configure options:
>
> ./configure \
> --with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \
> --enable-verbose \
> --enable-crashdump=yes \
> --enable-wiki-publisher \
> --with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2 \
> --with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \
> --enable-category-b \
> --enable-bundled-dictionaries \
> --with-package-format="installed dmg" \
> --with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home \
> --with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \
> --with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \
> --disable-systray \
> --without-junit
>
> My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew,
> thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in
> order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even
> update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl,
> that comes with everything out of the box.
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Jim,
On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 05:20:08PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
> configure to live in /Developer/.... Also some other nits...
For epm you have two options:
- use --with-epm-url pointing to a tarball
- build you own epm based on that very same version and
with AOO patches applied, then use --with-epm
These are my configure options:
./configure \
--with-build-version="$(date +"%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S (%a, %d %b %Y)")" \
--enable-verbose \
--enable-crashdump=yes \
--enable-wiki-publisher \
--with-dmake-url=http://sourceforge.net/projects/oooextras.mirror/files/dmake-4.12.tar.bz2 \
--with-epm-url=http://www.msweet.org/files/project2/epm-3.7-source.tar.gz \
--enable-category-b \
--enable-bundled-dictionaries \
--with-package-format="installed dmg" \
--with-jdk-home=/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/jdk1.7.0_80.jdk/Contents/Home \
--with-ant-home=$HOME/aoo/build/apache-ant-1.9.7 \
--with-perl-home=/usr/local/ActivePerl-5.24 \
--disable-systray \
--without-junit
My OS X El Capitan is a clean environment, no marcports nor homebrew,
thus no headers in /usr/local nor /opt nor elsewhere (this is needed in
order to reproduce the missing OpenSSL system headers bug). I don't even
update nor install Perl modules, I just installed Perl from ActivePerl,
that comes with everything out of the box.
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
I had an issue w/ epm and PackageMaker, which is hardcoded in
configure to live in /Developer/.... Also some other nits...
Taking notes and will send patches in.
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 4:02 PM, Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
>>
>> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
>
> I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
> apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=1714089
> because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
> https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099
>
> @Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?
>
>
>
> Regards
> --
> Ariel Constenla-Haile
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Ariel Constenla-Haile <ar...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 03:17:01PM -0400, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
>
> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
I've just built branch AOO410 with the latest and greatest, you need to
apply http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision&revision=1714089
because 10.11 isn't detected, but see
https://bz.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=127099
@Pedro: is your commit linked to a bug report?
Regards
--
Ariel Constenla-Haile
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>> o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>> o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>> o OSX 10.4 SDK
>
> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache OpenOffice 4.0"?
>
> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
>
> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>
> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
>
>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
>
> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer applies now.
>
>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>> w/ Xcode 7?
>
> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday is this one:
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, for that matter).
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Keith N. McKenna" <ke...@comcast.net>.
Jim Jagielski wrote:
> Cool... We should get rid of that old page or put DEPRECATED in big letters.
>
I have added a note to the page stating that it is deprecated along with
a link to the newer page.
Regards
Keith
> So have people built w/ 10.11 and Xcode 7.2.1 ?
>
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 2:02 PM, Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
>>> o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
>>> o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
>>> o OSX 10.4 SDK
>>
>> Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache OpenOffice 4.0"?
>>
>> You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
>>
>> https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
>>
>> and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
>>
>>> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
>>> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
>>
>> The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC (and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no longer applies now.
>>
>>> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
>>> w/ Xcode 7?
>>
>> The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy yesterday is this one:
>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
>> There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any version of XCode, for that matter).
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Jim Jagielski wrote:
> According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
> o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
> o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
> o OSX 10.4 SDK
Ahem... Have you noticed that the title says "OpenOffice 3.x or Apache
OpenOffice 4.0"?
You should not build 4.0. You should retry with the 4.1 instructions:
https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide_AOO/Building_on_MacOsX
and you'll find information up to 10.9 and newer there.
> From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
> iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
The guess is correct. It just misses that we stopped supporting PowerPC
(and moved to support more modern systems only) a few years ago. It no
longer applies now.
> The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
> w/ Xcode 7?
The link to the "reference environments" that I didn't have handy
yesterday is this one:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/devtools/build-scripts/4.1.2/
There you'll find (look for the environments.txt and the config.log
files) that 4.1.2 was built with Mac OS X 10.9.5 and XCode 6.2. Not the
latest, but not really "legacy" either. I've never used XCode 7 (or any
version of XCode, for that matter).
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
According to https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Building_Guide/Building_on_MacOSX
o OSX 10.4 or 10.5
o Xcode 2.4.1 or 3
o OSX 10.4 SDK
From what I can see the likely culprit is support for PowerPC, since,
iirc, 10.4 was the last to support PPC.
The OSX 10.4 SDK is also an issue... Have you gotten it to work
w/ Xcode 7? I have a copy of the SDK and use the attached script
to fold older SDKs in, but starting w/ Xcode7, it doesn't like it.
Soooo if, in fact, someone was able to *build* AOO on a recent (10.10
or 10.11) version of OSX and Xcode7, documenting that stuff on the
above wiki page would be very, very useful.
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Jim Jagielski wrote:
> The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
> checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
> has such a beast laying around.
When did you check? And what does "extremely old" mean?
OpenOffice 4.1.2 was built with a version of XCode released 6 months
earlier.
I trust you've looked at our reference environments, right? If you need
the link again just look at archives from the last 24 hours, I've posted
it into another conversation.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
Do we understand the reason for the old version of OSX etc.?
On 9/2/2016 3:48 PM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
> checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
> has such a beast laying around.
>
> I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult
> finding all the bits and pieces.
>
> There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve
> as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or
> we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself.
>
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>
>> On your own hardware:
>>
>> Repeat:
>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>> Fix the error messages you get;
>> Write notes about what you did;
>> Test the program functionality;
>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>
>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>
>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>
>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>
>> jonathon
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
The issue, currently, is that the Mac OS X build requires, last I
checked, an extremely old version of OSX, Xcode, et.al. No one
has such a beast laying around.
I have tried creating a VMware Fusion guest but it is difficult
finding all the bits and pieces.
There was some discussion on (re)purchasing a MacMini to serve
as our OSX build machine. I can host it here in my house or
we can plop it in our NOC. Hell, I may just purchase one myself.
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>
> On your own hardware:
>
> Repeat:
> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
> Fix the error messages you get;
> Write notes about what you did;
> Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>
>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>
> jonathon
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 10:09 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>
> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
I'm not being quite fair there. I keep multiple versions of AOO around,
and can afford disk space. We might be able to make do with the basic 50
GB of disk space if managed the space more carefully.
>
> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>> hardware
>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>
>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>
>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>
>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>
>>> On your own hardware:
>>>
>>> Repeat:
>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>> Test the program functionality;
>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>
>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>
>>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>
>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New
>>> Years.
>>>
>>> jonathon
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
Let me check.
FWIW, I have now a 10.7 guest running on my MacPro via VMware Fusion.
I am the legal licensee of that version as well.
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 1:28 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> It works on VMware VHosts too.
>
> Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could help grant a special license from Apple?
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
>> allows for it. And it works.
>>
>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>>> another
>>> OS do they?
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>>>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>>>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>>>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>>>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>>>
>>>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>>>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>>>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>>>
>>>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>>>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>>>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On your own hardware:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Repeat:
>>>>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>>>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>>>>> Test the program functionality;
>>>>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>>>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> jonathon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
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>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
It works on VMware VHosts too.
Jim, wearing your VP, Legal Affairs hat do you know anyone at Apple that could help grant a special license from Apple?
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 10:03 AM, Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com> wrote:
>
> Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
> allows for it. And it works.
>
>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
>> another
>> OS do they?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>>
>>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>>
>>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>>> hardware
>>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>>>
>>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>>
>>>>> On your own hardware:
>>>>>
>>>>> Repeat:
>>>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>>>> Test the program functionality;
>>>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>>>
>>>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>>>
>>>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>>>
>>>>> jonathon
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
Well, not sure if it is *allowed* or not, but VMware Fusion specifically
allows for it. And it works.
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 1:11 PM, Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
> another
> OS do they?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>
>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>
>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>> hardware
>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>>
>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>>
>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On your own hardware:
>>>>
>>>> Repeat:
>>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>>> Test the program functionality;
>>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>>
>>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>>
>>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>>
>>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>>
>>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>>
>>>> jonathon
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by toki <to...@gmail.com>.
On 02/09/2016 17:21, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> a Mac Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday.
> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO,
Yes.
>and doing so in a reasonable period of time?
That depends upon what the user considers "reasonable".
For full fledged development, I think it is inadequate, simply because
of the time it will take to build AOo. As a test bed machine, it is
adequate.
jonathon
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
Doing some reading, it looks like it may indeed be possible to run OS X on
VirtualBox at least under Windows (not sure about Linux). If so, I might
be willing to spend some money on an EC2 instance to do Mac builds,
especially if it doesn't need to be up 24x7.
Question: Does the ASF have any Mac hardware for doing Mac builds? Or is
everything Mac related left to being done on individual developer machines?
Phil
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:33 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
> I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple desktop,
> the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the first time I
> tried one.
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
>> everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
>> ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to
>> help
>> with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
>> spend.
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac
>>>> Mini
>>>>
>>>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>>>> less
>>>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so
>>>> in
>>>> a
>>>> reasonable period of time?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
>>> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with
>>> more
>>> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
I understand your problem. Until now, I have only owned one Apple
desktop, the Apple II I bought in 1980. I took a dislike to Macs the
first time I tried one.
On 9/2/2016 10:32 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
> everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
> ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help
> with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
> spend.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
>>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>>> less
>>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in
>>> a
>>> reasonable period of time?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
>> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more
>> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
No doubt. My problem on this is that I hate Apple, Macintosh, and
everything to do with their proprietary, closed-source, walled-garden
ecosystem. I could possibly pinch my nose shut and buy a cheap Mac to help
with AOO development, but there's a limit to how much I'd be willing to
spend.
Phil
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
>>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is
>>> less
>>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in
>> a
>> reasonable period of time?
>>
>
> I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If I
> were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with more
> cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 10:21 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
>> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less
>> than 10 months of macincloud.
>
>
>
> Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a
> reasonable period of time?
I don't know, but it is more powerful than the macinbcloud offering. If
I were buying myself a Mac, I would go for a more expensive system with
more cores, bigger memory, and a terabyte-scale disk.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:18 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
> Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac Mini
> with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That is less
> than 10 months of macincloud.
Is such a machine sufficiently powerful for building AOO, and doing so in a
reasonable period of time?
Phil
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
Looking at it the other way round, for under $500 I could have a Mac
Mini with 500 GB hard disk and Mac OS Yosemite delivered on Sunday. That
is less than 10 months of macincloud.
On 9/2/2016 10:11 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
> another
> OS do they?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
>> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
>> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
>> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
>> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>>
>> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
>> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
>> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>>
>> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
>> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
>> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>>> hardware
>>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>>
>>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>>
>>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>>
>>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>>
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On your own hardware:
>>>>
>>>> Repeat:
>>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>>> Test the program functionality;
>>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>>
>>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>>
>>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>>
>>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>>
>>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>>
>>>> jonathon
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
That's unfortunate. And Apple doesn't allow running OSX under a VM on
another
OS do they?
Phil
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:09 PM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
> I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
> found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
> building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
> of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
> more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
>
> For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
> ($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
> upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
>
> The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
> development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
> more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
>
>
>
>
> On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
>> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
>> hardware
>> is PC based, running Linux.
>>
>> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>>
>> http://www.macincloud.com/
>>
>> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>>
>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>>>
>>>
>>> On your own hardware:
>>>
>>> Repeat:
>>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>>> Fix the error messages you get;
>>> Write notes about what you did;
>>> Test the program functionality;
>>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>>
>>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>>
>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>>>>
>>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>>
>>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>>
>>> jonathon
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
I looked at some of those services a few weeks ago. For the ones I
found, the relatively inexpensive options did not have the capability of
building software, let alone the capacity for build a substantial body
of software. The options with the capability and capacity would cost
more than a Mac Mini over a few months.
For example, for macincloud we would need the "Dedicated Server" plan
($49+) with added "Optional Build Server Plan". Even their maximum
upgrade of 250 GB would not be enough for AOO building.
The conclusion I reached was that if I were going to do any Mac
development it would take less of my time and energy to buy one of the
more powerful Macs and manage it directly.
On 9/2/2016 9:53 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
> hardware
> is PC based, running Linux.
>
> I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
>
> http://www.macincloud.com/
>
> Anybody have any experience with something like that?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>
>>> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>>
>> On your own hardware:
>>
>> Repeat:
>> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
>> Fix the error messages you get;
>> Write notes about what you did;
>> Test the program functionality;
>> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>>
>> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>>
>>> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
>> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>>
>> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
>> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>>
>> jonathon
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
Sadly, I don't own a Mac. I use one at work, but all of my personal
hardware
is PC based, running Linux.
I wonder if it would work to use something like this:
http://www.macincloud.com/
Anybody have any experience with something like that?
Phil
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:20 PM, toki <to...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>
> > What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
>
> On your own hardware:
>
> Repeat:
> Build a Mac OS X Binary;
> Fix the error messages you get;
> Write notes about what you did;
> Test the program functionality;
> Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
>
> Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
>
> > How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
> response to the "retirement" discussion?
>
> At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
> before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
>
> jonathon
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by toki <to...@gmail.com>.
On 02/09/2016 14:59, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> What is the most important thing/things we could be working on?
On your own hardware:
Repeat:
Build a Mac OS X Binary;
Fix the error messages you get;
Write notes about what you did;
Test the program functionality;
Until it builds properly and all functions work as expected;
Then submit the patches and notes your you wrote to the SVN.
> How do we counter the FUD that is already being promulgated in
response to the "retirement" discussion?
At this stage, the only thing that might be adequate, is a release
before the end of the weekend, followed up by a release before New Years.
jonathon
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 11:30 AM, Bruce Byfield wrote:
> On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>> what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us
>> want this project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
>> could be
>> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>> positive direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>
> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
From my individual point of view, the biggest single contribution is
actually competition. Monopolies tend to go bad in various ways. I
joined AOO because I want to have a choice of major free office software
suites.
Apache's licensing model opens up additional competition space, because
of the potential for use of our source code in other products, including
but not limited to LibreOffice.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Hi -
Awesome. These are the kinds of questions that should energize the project. Base is a problem, but there are many Java bridges that can be plugged if we open up the configuration.
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 2, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
>> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
>> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
>
> That's a good question. The one obvious thing, which matters to some
> people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".
>
> From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
> somebody else couldn't do - in principle. However, different projects can
> evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
> developers. What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
> some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
> which largely revolves around the ASF anyway. This obviously applies
> mainly to Calc. But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
> share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc. I'd
> also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
> party languages like R. Integration with Arrow is something that could be
> interesting. And something that was talked about a while back, but I
> think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
> integration into AOO. I'd still like to see us do some things there.
>
> Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
> LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
> (which they're welcome to do). But maybe they'll decide their interests
> are elsewhere and choose not to. Who knows?
>
>
> Phil
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
> If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
> need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
> projects like LibreOffice cannot?
>
That's a good question. The one obvious thing, which matters to some
people, but not others, is "be licensed under the ALv2".
From a feature standpoint, I don't think there is anything we can do that
somebody else couldn't do - in principle. However, different projects can
evolve in different directions based on the choices made by the
developers. What I'd like to see AOO do a bit (and I hope to help with
some of this) is to develop tighter integration with the "big data" world,
which largely revolves around the ASF anyway. This obviously applies
mainly to Calc. But there, I'd like to see easier and more direct ways to
share data between Calc and, say, a Spark cluster, or Impala, etc. I'd
also like to see more in the way of accessing external API's and using 3rd
party languages like R. Integration with Arrow is something that could be
interesting. And something that was talked about a while back, but I
think went largely unfulfilled, was the idea of adding more "social"
integration into AOO. I'd still like to see us do some things there.
Now if any of that came to fruition, it's possible that other projects like
LO might simply choose to integrate those features into their codebase
(which they're welcome to do). But maybe they'll decide their interests
are elsewhere and choose not to. Who knows?
Phil
Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Bruce Byfield <bb...@axion.net>.
On September 2, 2016 10:59:55 AM Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>what needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us
>want this project to
>continue moving forward.
>
>What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
>could be
>working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>positive direction?
>
>How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> etc...
If you excuse the comment from an outsider, I suggest the question you
need to answer is: What can Apache OpenOffice offer that related
projects like LibreOffice cannot?
(And, incidentally, although I'm a journalist, I am notabout to announc
that AOO is shutting down. A couple of years ago, the project looked
shaky, yet it managed to survive. The thread is fascinating, but
obviously speculative at this point).
--
Bruce Byfield 604.421.7189 (Pacific time)
Writer of "Designing with LibreOffice"
http://designingwithlibreoffice.com/
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Message posted on the EN forum: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=84952
If you need the message to be changed, don't hesitate, I can edit it.
Hagar
Le 02/09/2016 18:25, Patricia Shanahan a crit :
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
>> be
>> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
>> direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining developers.
>
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers."
>
> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate that message.
>
> I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@
>
> The message should go out every way it can:
>
> users@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> members@apache.org
> dev@community.apache.org
>
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to state the risk of shut down.
>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
I have requested creation of the mailing list, with Andrea and myself as
moderators.
On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>
> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>
> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>
>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>> an appeal for developers.
>
> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
We have no options here. Archives have to be public for this kind of
lists (ASF archives are never really private, but this is another matter).
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Thank you for the initiative.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 3, 2016, at 7:00 AM, Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org> wrote:
>
>> On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote:
>> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
>>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
>>
>> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
>> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
>> exchange one, then I would help.
>
> It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best
> way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs
> developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible.
>
> Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to
> settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time
> zones irrelevant.
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/3/2016 2:07 AM, Marcus wrote:
> Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
>> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
>> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
>
> that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
> already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
> exchange one, then I would help.
It is more a consequence of my sense of urgency. I feel that the best
way to deal with the "shutdown AOO" movement is to push the "AOO needs
developers" message as immediately and strongly as possible.
Normally, I would have waited a few days for the moderator list to
settle before filing the mailing list creation request, making time
zones irrelevant.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/03/2016 09:47 AM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
> happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
that's the problem of time zones: You are always late when others have
already answered. ;-) So, if you need another moderator or want to
exchange one, then I would help.
Marcus
> On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:
>> I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
>> the list of moderators.
>>
>> Regards
>> Dave
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> From: Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700
>>> Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
>>>
>>> Alternative volunteer for moderator?
>>>
>>> On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>>>>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>>>>
>>>> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
>>>> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>>>>
>>>> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
>>>> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
>>>> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>>>>
>>>>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>>>>> an appeal for developers.
>>>>
>>>> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours,
>>>> visibility
>>>> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
Thanks. I've already filed the request to create the list. Once that
happens I'll see about adding you to the moderators.
On 9/2/2016 10:42 PM, Dave Barton wrote:
> I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
> the list of moderators.
>
> Regards
> Dave
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700
>> Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
>>
>> Alternative volunteer for moderator?
>>
>> On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>>>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>>>
>>> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
>>> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>>>
>>> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
>>> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
>>> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>>>
>>>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>>>> an appeal for developers.
>>>
>>> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
>>> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Andrea.
>
>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Barton <bm...@apache.org>.
I am an a moderator for this and other AOO lists. Feel free to add me to
the list of moderators.
Regards
Dave
-------- Original Message --------
From: Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2016 15:51:18 -0700
> Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
>
> Alternative volunteer for moderator?
>
> On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>>
>> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
>> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>>
>> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
>> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
>> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>>
>>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>>> an appeal for developers.
>>
>> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
>> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
Thanks. Any views on whether the archive should be private or public?
Alternative volunteer for moderator?
On 9/2/2016 3:22 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
>> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
>
> Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
> requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
>
> You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
> one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
> address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
>
>> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
>> an appeal for developers.
>
> I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
> is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
> tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started?
Request form is here: https://infra.apache.org/officers/mlreq and
requests are usually honored within 48 hours.
You'll have to specify a second moderator. I'm not so inclined to be
one, but if this speeds up things feel free to put my Apache e-mail
address there, at least for the time being (next month or so).
> to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
> an appeal for developers.
I'm unsure about this. As you have seen in the last 24 hours, visibility
is only given to what the journalist/blogger likes.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 10:37 AM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
>
> On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Shanahan
>>> [mailto:pats@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To:
>>> dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice
>>> NON-retirement involve?
...
>>> I would like a special mailing list
>>> recruitment@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and
>>> organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
>>> especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to
>>> recruitment@
>> [orcmid]
>>
>> We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need
>> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
>> what to do with the offers.
>
> I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that
> works would depend on how many volunteers we get.
If you can send me a pointer to documentation on the correct moderator
tools, I can also do that. How soon can we get the list started? I want
to strike while the iron is hot, and we can get a lot of publicity for
an appeal for developers.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 10:18 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Patricia Shanahan
>> [mailto:pats@acm.org] Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26 To:
>> dev@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice
>> NON-retirement involve?
>>
>> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically
>>> about
>> what
>>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us
>>> want
>> this
>>> project to continue moving forward.
>>>
>>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things
>>> we
>> could
>>> be working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things
>>> in a
>> positive
>>> direction?
>>>
>>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD
>>> that is already being promulgated in response to the "retirement"
>>> discussion? etc...
>>
>> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the
>> risk that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best
>> efforts of its remaining developers.
> [orcmid]
>
> I think that is a great approach, Patricia.
>
>>
>> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one
>> message: "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more
>> volunteer developers, especially C++ programmers."
>>
>> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
>> complicate that message.
>>
>> I would like a special mailing list
>> recruitment@openoffice.apache.org, just for signing up and
>> organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
>> especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to
>> recruitment@
> [orcmid]
>
> We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need
> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
> what to do with the offers.
I've already volunteered to mentor and organize volunteers. How that
works would depend on how many volunteers we get.
>
> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted
> on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We
> can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests
> for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these
> can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in
> other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the
> Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements
> and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the
> interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to
> contribute.
>
> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
>
> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I
> will dig into that too.
>
> - Dennis
>
>
>>
>> The message should go out every way it can:
>>
>> users@openoffice.apache.org OpenOffice forums Press release
>> members@apache.org dev@community.apache.org
>>
>> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
>> developers to state the risk of shut down.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Xen <li...@xenhideout.nl>.
Marcus schreef op 04-09-2016 11:09:
> you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
> works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)
How common is not that experience ;-).
For some reason in Linux (or in general) we assume or we are given
reasons to believe that people will not answer our calls when we ask for
help, and we do ask for help (often in frustration) people send us into
the woods or say that we need to find the answer on our own (for
instance by reading help pages better) and so we assume and regret the
fact that it is unlikely a question will simply be answered.
So we plough on in despair and work hard to find the answer that someone
else already has (but sometimes refuses to give ;-)). And then when
someone says "you can just ask" we are flabbergasted because most of the
time we are told the opposite....
How strange a gesture of friendliness in this world.
How strange a gesture of friendliness.
But I suggest you do not focus solely on acquiring more volunteers or
workers or developers.
What you need is to put forth a vision that will attract those people.
Do not try to attract them yourself, let the vision attract them.
After all, you seek to inspire those people right? Inspiration is like
the opposite of transpiration: it gives energy. Maybe it is the opposite
of expiration.... you don't want the project to expire, so you need to
inspire people.
I mean, start by positioning Apache OpenOffice in a way that gives it
new life.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/04/2016 06:43 PM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.mail@wtnet.de]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>>
>> Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>>> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:pats@acm.org]
>>>>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
>>>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>>>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>>> [ ... ]
>>>> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted
>> on
>>>> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can
>>>> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
>>>> assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can
>> be
>>>> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other
>> places
>>>> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted
>> item
>>>> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
>>>> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
>>>> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
>>>>
>>>> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
>>>>
>>>> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I
>> will
>>>> dig into that too.
>>> [orcmid]
>>>
>>> I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download
>> page. It does not fit will with that.
>>
>> you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
>> works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)
>>
>>> I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its
>> own.
>>
>> The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a
>> point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for
>> this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.
>>
>> Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage
>> [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.
>>
>>> It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted
>> tasks can be lengthy.
>>>
>>> I am going to stop looking into that for now.
>>
>> Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act
>> to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working
>> like it is now? Any points to reasons?
>>
>> [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>>
> [orcmid]
>
> I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code. It helped me understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that the web site depends so much on. I wanted to discern the principles and then keep faith with them.
>
> 1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help Wanted" block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page that has it on the live site). The reason that I did not propose it is the widget does not look good that way. A better widget using the current source of the data would be needed. That becomes a more-involved dev-community activity and I was not prepared to go there. Also, help-wanted widget is still experimental and we might run into maintenance issues as there is more development of the widget.
>
> 2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be customized to show just "openoffice" items. I added one to confirm that works. However, it appears that the widget does the equivalent of "show me everything" which is why it should be on a separate page. The list could become rather long.
>
> We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects. Before we do any of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks.
>
> 3. I did look at putting something on the current<http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page.
>
> Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and volunteer their time and expertise with the project."
>
> Is this a hack on<http://www.openoffice.org> to break out of the localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to what we call the project site,<http://openoffice.apache.org>?
I don't understand your question. This exists since, hm, I don't know
when, maybe ever.
It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are
recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@
list. That separation puzzles me.
This is not a special thing. It's just a translation of the English
"get_involved" webpage.
I'm sorry but I still don't know what you really want to do.
Marcus
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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marcus [mailto:marcus.mail@wtnet.de]
> Sent: Sunday, September 4, 2016 02:09
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>
> Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> >> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
> >> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:pats@acm.org]
> >>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> >>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> > [ ... ]
> >> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted
> on
> >> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can
> >> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
> >> assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can
> be
> >> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other
> places
> >> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted
> item
> >> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
> >> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
> >> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
> >>
> >> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
> >>
> >> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I
> will
> >> dig into that too.
> > [orcmid]
> >
> > I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download
> page. It does not fit will with that.
>
> you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
> works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)
>
> > I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its
> own.
>
> The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a
> point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for
> this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.
>
> Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage
> [1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.
>
> > It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted
> tasks can be lengthy.
> >
> > I am going to stop looking into that for now.
>
> Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act
> to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working
> like it is now? Any points to reasons?
>
> [1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
>
[orcmid]
I wanted to train myself and one way is to look at the code. It helped me understand the way that the localization is handled in the .js JavaScripts that the web site depends so much on. I wanted to discern the principles and then keep faith with them.
1. With regard to the widget, I was able to add it to the Orange "Help Wanted" block on a test version of the English/default download page (the only page that has it on the live site). The reason that I did not propose it is the widget does not look good that way. A better widget using the current source of the data would be needed. That becomes a more-involved dev-community activity and I was not prepared to go there. Also, help-wanted widget is still experimental and we might run into maintenance issues as there is more development of the widget.
2. The current widget (obtained from http://helpwanted.apache.org) can be customized to show just "openoffice" items. I added one to confirm that works. However, it appears that the widget does the equivalent of "show me everything" which is why it should be on a separate page. The list could become rather long.
We could also have a page that works more like the helpwanted.apache.org page, but about Apache openoffice only, adding a link to the helpwanted.a.o for folks who want to know about helpwanted-tasks for all ASF projects. Before we do any of that, we need to populate helpwanted.a.o with more OpenOffice tasks.
3. I did look at putting something on the current <http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html> page.
Although it is right there in the link, I kept looking for it on openoffice.org. My error. That explains why ooo-site does not have any get-involved/participate page with the "Diese Seite in Deutsch" line and the sentence " Although many are content to make a small donation to support Apache OpenOffice and the Apache Software Foundation (we appreciate every contribution), some users want to get more involved and volunteer their time and expertise with the project."
Is this a hack on <http://www.openoffice.org> to break out of the localization model and link "I want to participate in OpenOffice" to what we call the project site, <http://openoffice.apache.org>? It also creates a special island where certain kinds of task are recruited from the German Language community, with a separate dev-de@ list. That separation puzzles me.
- Dennis
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/04/2016 01:40 AM, schrieb Dennis E. Hamilton:
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:pats@acm.org]
>>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
>>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> [ ... ]
>>> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
>>> "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
>>> developers, especially C++ programmers."
>>>
>>> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
>>> complicate that message.
>>>
>>> I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org,
>>> just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
>>> start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
>>> an e-mail to recruitment@
>> [orcmid]
>>
>> We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need
>> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
>> what to do with the offers.
>>
>> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on
>> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can
>> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
>> assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be
>> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places
>> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item
>> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
>> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
>> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
>>
>> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
>>
>> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will
>> dig into that too.
> [orcmid]
>
> I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page. It does not fit will with that.
you don't need to figure this out on your own. You can ask me how it
works. It would be much faster and more efficient. ;-)
> I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own.
The widget points already to a webpage to its own [1]. We just need a
point to this webpage and the text on the download page fits good for
this purpose. We could add this on the main webpage, too.
Of course we can also think about changes to the "get-involved" webpage
[1] to hightlight better the need for more devs.
> It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can be lengthy.
>
> I am going to stop looking into that for now.
Sure, the idea behind the text can be changed how it should work or act
to have a different effect. However, why do you think it is not working
like it is now? Any points to reasons?
[1] http://openoffice.apache.org/get-involved.html
Marcus
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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 10:18
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:pats@acm.org]
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
[ ... ]
> > I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> > "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> > developers, especially C++ programmers."
> >
> > I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> > complicate that message.
> >
> > I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org,
> > just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> > start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> > an e-mail to recruitment@
> [orcmid]
>
> We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need
> moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out
> what to do with the offers.
>
> Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on
> it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can
> then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for
> assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be
> focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places
> among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item
> provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the
> task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer
> find details enough to decide how to contribute.
>
> Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
>
> I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will
> dig into that too.
[orcmid]
I figured out how to add the widget to the orange box on the Download page. It does not fit will with that.
I think it is best to have the AOO Help Wanted Widget on a page of its own.
It could be linked to by other pages, where its list of help-wanted tasks can be lengthy.
I am going to stop looking into that for now.
>
> - Dennis
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RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patricia Shanahan [mailto:pats@acm.org]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 09:26
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
> what
> > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
> this
> > project to
> > continue moving forward.
> >
> > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
> could
> > be
> > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
> positive
> > direction?
> >
> > How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
> > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> > etc...
>
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk
> that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its
> remaining developers.
[orcmid]
I think that is a great approach, Patricia.
>
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> developers, especially C++ programmers."
>
> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> complicate that message.
>
> I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org,
> just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> an e-mail to recruitment@
[orcmid]
We can, of course, add a mailing list. That does mean we need moderators and we also need someone to watch the list and figure out what to do with the offers.
Something we can easily do already [as well], and we have not acted on it, is add the ASF Help Wanted widget in a number of places. We can then populate the database the Widget uses with specific requests for assistance on Apache OpenOffice. The benefit is that (1) these can be focused tasks, (2) the Help Wanted will also be visible in other places among the Help Wanted from other projects, and (3) the Help Wanted item provides enough properties about skill requirements and nature of the task, as well as a link to details that help the interested volunteer find details enough to decide how to contribute.
Addition of the help-wanted widget can be done immediately.
I have another promised activity for this US Holiday weekend, but I will dig into that too.
- Dennis
>
> The message should go out every way it can:
>
> users@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> members@apache.org
> dev@community.apache.org
>
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
> developers to state the risk of shut down.
>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Brondsema <da...@brondsema.net>.
On 9/2/16 12:25 PM, Patricia Shanahan wrote:
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
>> be
>> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
>> direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk that
> AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its remaining
> developers.
>
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message: "AOO is
> at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer developers, especially
> C++ programmers."
IMO yes, this is a good tactic. Since the news is getting public, best to
embrace it.
> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or complicate
> that message.
>
> I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org, just for
> signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to start with dev@,
> especially the less experienced developers. Just send an e-mail to recruitment@
>
> The message should go out every way it can:
>
> users@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> members@apache.org
> dev@community.apache.org
As stated on the other thread, SourceForge could run messaging as well, to help
get the word out. Best for the PMC to craft the content of course, but SF could
run it on many places if desired. E.g. newsletter, announcement banner on
developer pages, social media, etc. Lots of options.
>
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for developers to
> state the risk of shut down.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
--
Dave Brondsema : dave@brondsema.net
http://www.brondsema.net : personal
http://www.splike.com : programming
<><
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Marcus <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 09/02/2016 06:25 PM, schrieb Patricia Shanahan:
> On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>> what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
>> this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
>> be
>> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
>> direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>
> The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk
> that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its
> remaining developers.
>
> I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
> "AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
> developers, especially C++ programmers."
>
> I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
> complicate that message.
>
> I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org,
> just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
> start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
> an e-mail to recruitment@
>
> The message should go out every way it can:
>
> users@openoffice.apache.org
> OpenOffice forums
> Press release
> members@apache.org
> dev@community.apache.org
>
> We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
> developers to state the risk of shut down.
if you have some more ideas let me know. This is a point we can get
quite quickly published.
Marcus
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Patricia Shanahan <pa...@acm.org>.
On 9/2/2016 7:59 AM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about what
> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want this
> project to
> continue moving forward.
>
> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
> be
> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
> direction?
>
> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> etc...
The "other thread" is actually liberating. Let's go public with the risk
that AOO will be shut down, despite the wishes and best efforts of its
remaining developers.
I would like to see every possible medium used to present one message:
"AOO is at serious risk of dying, unless we get more volunteer
developers, especially C++ programmers."
I know we need other skills as well, but I don't want to dilute or
complicate that message.
I would like a special mailing list recruitment@openoffice.apache.org,
just for signing up and organizing new developers. No need for them to
start with dev@, especially the less experienced developers. Just send
an e-mail to recruitment@
The message should go out every way it can:
users@openoffice.apache.org
OpenOffice forums
Press release
members@apache.org
dev@community.apache.org
We should also strengthen the current download page appeal for
developers to state the risk of shut down.
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
Really? Substantial work is done on list to improve the build process for Windows and you don't think about mentioning that?
Someone who has a Mac and time could help with that build!
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 2, 2016, at 9:05 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>
> We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to provide an actionable answer.
>
> There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is energy put into having an AOO that serves its community.
>
> Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for volunteers on the download page.
>
> We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more plates than they have arms and legs.
>
> - Dennis
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue.fan@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
>> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
>> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>>
>> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
>> what
>> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
>> this
>> project to
>> continue moving forward.
>>
>> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
>> could
>> be
>> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
>> positive
>> direction?
>>
>> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
>> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
>> etc...
>>
>>
>> Phil
>> ~~~
>> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
>
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by Phillip Rhodes <mo...@gmail.com>.
Right, which is why one of the questions I asked was:
"What can I do right now to help"?
I have been negligent in terms of contributing to AOO in the past, despite
my intentions, but I'm hoping I can change that and start pitching in
more. But I don't know where the best place to direct my attention would
be.
Phil
This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> wrote:
> We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to
> provide an actionable answer.
>
> There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on
> the What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is
> energy put into having an AOO that serves its community.
>
> Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for
> volunteers on the download page.
>
> We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more
> plates than they have arms and legs.
>
> - Dennis
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue.fan@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
> > To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> > Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
> >
> > OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
> > what
> > needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
> > this
> > project to
> > continue moving forward.
> >
> > What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
> > could
> > be
> > working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
> > positive
> > direction?
> >
> > How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
> > already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> > etc...
> >
> >
> > Phil
> > ~~~
> > This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
>
>
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>
RE: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
We all have these questions, Phil. What we are awaiting is someone to provide an actionable answer.
There is nothing to do about the FUD (as is already remarked elsewhere on the What would ... thread). That's a waste of energy. What we need is energy put into having an AOO that serves its community.
Patricia and Marcus have already taken some steps and there is a call for volunteers on the download page.
We need people to step up. The folks we have are already spinning more plates than they have arms and legs.
- Dennis
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phillip Rhodes [mailto:motley.crue.fan@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 2, 2016 08:00
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
>
> OK, counter-point to the other thread... let's talk specifically about
> what
> needs to happen next, given that some (plenty|most|all|???) of us want
> this
> project to
> continue moving forward.
>
> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we
> could
> be
> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a
> positive
> direction?
>
> How can we attract more developers? How do we counter the FUD that is
> already being promulgated in response to the "retirement" discussion?
> etc...
>
>
> Phil
> ~~~
> This message optimized for indexing by NSA PRISM
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Re: What would OpenOffice NON-retirement involve?
Posted by "Dr. Michael Stehmann" <an...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de>.
Am 02.09.2016 um 16:59 schrieb Phillip Rhodes:
>
> What has to happen next? What is the most important thing/things we could
> be
> working on? What could I do *right now* to help move things in a positive
> direction?
>
As I wrote before: If we want to recruit new developer, we need a
contact person and mentors.
And we need the next release - so we need a release manager.
Kind regards
Michael