Laszlo - things to consider

[Konstantin Iignatyev <kg...@yahoo.com>]

>>Maybe, but this is not laszlo's fault... try opening as many JVM's... and... laszo is not flash.
Laszlo is flash on client as far as I am concerned.

Of course that is not Laszlo fault, but all applets run within one JVM.


 >> Your typical laszlo app will be between 1 and 2 megs uncompressed;

No, my application simply cannot be all flash. I need active COMPONENTS 
because majority of the staff can and should be handled by 
browser/html/dummy-flash etc.
In the instant we have possibility of multiple downloads of the same 
flash movie as we navigate between pages back and forth.



Bernard Sirius wrote:

>--- Konstantin Iignatyev <kg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>- I am too stupid perhaps.  Could not get done
>>dynamically expandable 
>>tree ( node retrieves children on demand );
>>    
>>
>
>challenging laszlo on such a simplistic problem is
>unfair. their demos speak for themselves.
>
>  
>
>>- Laszlo Flash components are so big ( megabytes );
>>    
>>
>
>Your typical laszlo app will be between 1 and 2 megs
>uncompressed; with deflate on, divide this by 4.
>My ADSL line gives me 350Kb/sec, at least. We're
>talking 1 to 3 seconds download time, here.
>And if there's one thing for sure: bandwidth will
>continue to grow.
>
>  
>
>>- unclear caching schema if any;
>>- Unclear security model;
>>    
>>
>
>http://www.laszlosystems.com/lps-2.2/docs/guide/architecture.html
>
>  
>
>>- huge demand for server side resources, tried to
>>have dedicated Laszlo 
>>compilation server and just let components talk to
>>'client' servers but 
>>could not get it done;
>>    
>>
>
>Agreed. However, the version 3 of LPS will feature
>serverless deployment.
>
>  
>
>>- development cycle is not that convenient IMO;
>>- having multiple documents with flashes open in
>>multiple windows and 
>>they brought my 3.3G/1GB  laptop to the knees  (
>>server worked on Linux 
>>box) - probably one FVM( Flash Virtual Machine) per
>>component is too much;
>>    
>>
>
>Maybe, but this is not laszlo's fault... try opening
>as many JVM's... and... laszo is not flash.
>  
>  
>
>>Share your frustration, but IMO Applets would work
>>much better for 
>>everybody with a little work from Sun:
>>- have shared standard repository of libraries to
>>prevent every applet 
>>to download own  log4j, jakarta-commons etc.;
>>- real integration with Java Web Start for
>>predictable and precise caching;
>>- chunked JVM autoinstall; Installation could be no
>>harder than FlashPlayer;
>>    
>>
>
>maybe, maybe, maybe. but flash is here now,
>everybody's got it on their browser, and they don't
>even know it.
>
>And before I continue, let me emphasize that *laszlo
>is not flash*. This debate is important for now,
>that's for sure, but laszlo plans to integrate with
>all kinds of technology, not the least interesting
>being, simply... DHTML. But they're evaluating the JVM
>too. A very natural target for them being of course
>XAML/avalon.
>
>  
>
>>- somehow I do not trust Macromedia to create high
>>quality FVM for 
>>client side, even they would be able to do it, I bet
>>it will be pretty 
>>the same as JVM, why reinvent?.
>>    
>>
>
>no no it's not the same thing. flash is not a virtual
>machine, it's a runtime, and a very effective piece of
>software, albeit not perfect. It's much easier to
>focus on a scripting runtime with an efficient
>graphics engine, than to write a JVM, IMHO.
>
>hey I don't want to be controversial or make anyone
>nervous here. I just want to stress the elements that
>IMO will make RIA *in general* thrive:
>
>- rich graphic possibilities: flash
>- ubiquity: floash
>- ease of development: no (visible) compilation step;
>scripting and xml everywhere
>
>I don't think that java is inherently inadequate for
>RIA development. Only laszlo+flash is a winning
>combination right now. And java is still a no-match on
>the server side.
>
>bernard
>
>
>		
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-- 
Thanks,

Konstantin Ignatyev

http://www.kgionline.com





PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add fifteen million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 square miles of tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of desert, eliminate between forty to one hundred species, erode seventy-one million tons of topsoil, add 2.700 tons of CFCs to the stratosphere, and increase their population by 263.000

Bowers, C.A.  The Culture of Denial:  
Why the Environmental Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities and Public Schools.  
New York:  State University of New York Press, 1997: (4) (5) (p.206)


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