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Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> on 2014/04/30 22:49:47 UTC
First stab at Next Steps article
I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkcomWgk/edit#
The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
Thoughts, opinions, etc?
Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Lisa Seacat DeLuca <ld...@us.ibm.com>.
This document looks great. I like the idea of having a single place for
advice on performance and improving app development in general. It might
be nice to have a section on jQuery specific Cordova improvements. For
example, this article:
http://demos.jquerymobile.com/1.1.0/docs/pages/phonegap.html touches on
tricks developers can use for Cordova apps using jQuery.
I don't really like how in the closing section we point people to the
phonegap google group despite us trying to grow our presence on
StackOverflow. My vote would be to remove that section of the document.
If someone really wants to find the phonegap google group or needs an
answer they can't find on stackoverflow they can probably find it on their
own by googling. But promoting the Phonegap google group seems to go
against what we're working for as far as name recognition with Cordova
(already had a discussion about this for the main site and the conclusion
was to remove phonegap). Not to mention all of the "apache way" reasons
it's a no-no.
That being said, love the idea behind this document. Once it's pushed to
the doc site let me know and I'll pull into Crowdin for our translators!
Lisa
Lisa Seacat DeLuca
Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldeluca@apache.org | |
ldeluca@us.ibm.com | lisaseacat.com | |
From: Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
To: "dev@cordova.apache.org" <de...@cordova.apache.org>
Date: 05/05/2014 04:34 PM
Subject: RE: First stab at Next Steps article
PR submitted. ICLA submitted.
________________________________________
From: brian.leroux@gmail.com <br...@gmail.com> on behalf of Brian
LeRoux <b...@brian.io>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:13 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
+1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray!
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit
> will (should?) have your name on it.
>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
PR submitted. ICLA submitted.
________________________________________
From: brian.leroux@gmail.com <br...@gmail.com> on behalf of Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:13 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
+1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray!
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit
> will (should?) have your name on it.
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
+1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray!
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit
> will (should?) have your name on it.
>
> We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide
> so
> that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top
> level guide. I think a good spot would be between "Using Plugman to Manage
> Plugins" and "The config.xml File."
>
> I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the
> docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine,
> unless somebody else can spin one up quicker.
>
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be
> easy
> > to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped.
> > >
> > > To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this
> > going
> > > forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and
> into
> > > your hands?
> > >
> > > FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick
> > > stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of
> pushing
> > it
> > > to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as
> well.)
> > >
> > >
> > > ....
> > >
> > > The only thing really left to resolve is some details around
> recommending
> > > FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a
> > few
> > > more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants
> > > to.)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> >
>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
I can do so soon.
________________________________________
From: Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:02 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit
will (should?) have your name on it.
We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide so
that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top
level guide. I think a good spot would be between "Using Plugman to Manage
Plugins" and "The config.xml File."
I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the
docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine,
unless somebody else can spin one up quicker.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>.
Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit
will (should?) have your name on it.
We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide so
that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top
level guide. I think a good spot would be between "Using Plugman to Manage
Plugins" and "The config.xml File."
I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the
docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine,
unless somebody else can spin one up quicker.
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be easy
> to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs
>
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped.
> >
> > To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this
> going
> > forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into
> > your hands?
> >
> > FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick
> > stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing
> it
> > to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.)
> >
> >
> > ....
> >
> > The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
> > FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a
> few
> > more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants
> > to.)
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Shazron <sh...@gmail.com>.
I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be easy
to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped.
>
> To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this going
> forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into
> your hands?
>
> FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick
> stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing it
> to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.)
>
>
> ....
>
> The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
> FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few
> more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants
> to.)
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped.
To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this going forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into your hands?
FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing it to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.)
....
The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few
more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
I'm going to turn off shared access - just while I do my review review (in case folks try to load it up).
________________________________________
From: Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:56 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Yes, I'm mad you did this work for me. ;)
I'm a bit behind so this is perfect, thank you. I still plan on checking over things today and seeing if it is ready to submit to Cordova for the initial doc. Thanks!
________________________________________
From: Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:31 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people
left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really
shaping up and starting to look great.
The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few
more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
Yes, I'm mad you did this work for me. ;)
I'm a bit behind so this is perfect, thank you. I still plan on checking over things today and seeing if it is ready to submit to Cordova for the initial doc. Thanks!
________________________________________
From: Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:31 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people
left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really
shaping up and starting to look great.
The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few
more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by "Sergey Grebnov (Akvelon)" <v-...@microsoft.com>.
Great write-up! Please consider adding the following resource in the appropriate doc place. Browsers engines become more and more standards compliant but we still live in -webkit and -ms world, so me personally plus many other devs found out this article super valuable when developing cross browser apps.
Adapting your WebKit-optimized site for Internet Explorer
http://blogs.windows.com/windows_phone/b/wpdev/archive/2012/11/15/adapting-your-webkit-optimized-site-for-internet-explorer-10.aspx
Thx!
Sergey
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Billau [mailto:mike.billau@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, May 5, 2014 8:31 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really shaping up and starting to look great.
The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
> spajs.io didn't get the track we wanted, so we ended putting the
> content
> here:
>
> *"Best practices for mobile app development"*
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mobile/worklight/best-practices.htm
> l
>
> We created this because we often got questioned "What are the best
> practices when doing hybrid mobile Apps?"
> And I think folks got tired of us answering "Well it depends on many
> factors" :-). So this is a first version on attempting to answer
>
> Ray
> The resources are 99.9% none-ibm product related (I say 99.9%,
> there one doc about our product :-) ).
> The goal of the resources was to make it mobile focus including mobile
> web and mobile hybrid.
>
> Please review and see if it worthy to included the link as a reference
> under "Other resources", if not I will not be offended.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week.
> >
> > - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I
> > know is difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base
> > on our own experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for
> > solutions to problems there is a fine line to walk between a web dev
> > concern and a cordova dev concern.
> > I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group,
> > its not about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the
> > end to end developer experience when a developer decides to use
> > hybrid (coding, testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which
> > the expectation that their web dev skills should be enough, but the
> > reality is that there is
> a
> > little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to
> > help with code, education, collaboration.
> >
> >
> > - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind
> > folks
> how
> > we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between
> > web dev and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be
> > able to create awesome mobile apps with those skills
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update,
> >> > etc,
> >> and
> >> > see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point
> >> > yall
> >> can
> >> > take it over.
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________________
> >> > From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of
> Kerri
> >> > Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
> >> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
> >> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
> >> >
> >> > Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to
> "hello,
> >> > world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to
> >> > proceed
> after
> >> > that fact would be very beneficial.
> >> >
> >> > I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some
> >> sections
> >> > on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is
> >> > too
> much
> >> > detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to
> >> > remove as needed. :-)
> >> >
> >> > If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've
> >> > been
> >> meaning
> >> > to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Santana
> > <cs...@gmail.com>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Santana
> <cs...@gmail.com>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>.
I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people
left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really
shaping up and starting to look great.
The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending
FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few
more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
> spajs.io didn't get the track we wanted, so we ended putting the content
> here:
>
> *"Best practices for mobile app development"*
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mobile/worklight/best-practices.html
>
> We created this because we often got questioned "What are the best
> practices when doing hybrid mobile Apps?"
> And I think folks got tired of us answering "Well it depends on many
> factors" :-). So this is a first version on attempting to answer
>
> Ray
> The resources are 99.9% none-ibm product related (I say 99.9%, there
> one doc about our product :-) ).
> The goal of the resources was to make it mobile focus including mobile web
> and mobile hybrid.
>
> Please review and see if it worthy to included the link as a reference
> under "Other resources", if not I will not be offended.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week.
> >
> > - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is
> > difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own
> > experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems
> > there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev
> > concern.
> > I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not
> > about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end
> > developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding,
> > testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that
> > their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is
> a
> > little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help
> > with code, education, collaboration.
> >
> >
> > - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks
> how
> > we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev
> > and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create
> > awesome mobile apps with those skills
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc,
> >> and
> >> > see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall
> >> can
> >> > take it over.
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________________
> >> > From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of
> Kerri
> >> > Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
> >> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
> >> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> >> > Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
> >> >
> >> > Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to
> "hello,
> >> > world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed
> after
> >> > that fact would be very beneficial.
> >> >
> >> > I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some
> >> sections
> >> > on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too
> much
> >> > detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
> >> > needed. :-)
> >> >
> >> > If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been
> >> meaning
> >> > to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Carlos Santana
> > <cs...@gmail.com>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Santana
> <cs...@gmail.com>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>.
Mike,
spajs.io didn't get the track we wanted, so we ended putting the content
here:
*"Best practices for mobile app development"*
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mobile/worklight/best-practices.html
We created this because we often got questioned "What are the best
practices when doing hybrid mobile Apps?"
And I think folks got tired of us answering "Well it depends on many
factors" :-). So this is a first version on attempting to answer
Ray
The resources are 99.9% none-ibm product related (I say 99.9%, there
one doc about our product :-) ).
The goal of the resources was to make it mobile focus including mobile web
and mobile hybrid.
Please review and see if it worthy to included the link as a reference
under "Other resources", if not I will not be offended.
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week.
>
> - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is
> difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own
> experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems
> there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev
> concern.
> I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not
> about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end
> developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding,
> testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that
> their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is a
> little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help
> with code, education, collaboration.
>
>
> - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks how
> we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev
> and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create
> awesome mobile apps with those skills
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>
>> Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc,
>> and
>> > see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall
>> can
>> > take it over.
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of Kerri
>> > Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
>> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
>> >
>> > Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to "hello,
>> > world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after
>> > that fact would be very beneficial.
>> >
>> > I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some
>> sections
>> > on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much
>> > detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
>> > needed. :-)
>> >
>> > If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been
>> meaning
>> > to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Carlos Santana
> <cs...@gmail.com>
>
--
Carlos Santana
<cs...@gmail.com>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Carlos Santana <cs...@gmail.com>.
Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week.
- Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is
difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own
experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems
there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev
concern.
I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not
about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end
developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding,
testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that
their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is a
little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help
with code, education, collaboration.
- Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks how
we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev
and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create
awesome mobile apps with those skills
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =)
>
>
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc,
> and
> > see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall
> can
> > take it over.
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of Kerri
> > Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
> > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
> > To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
> >
> > Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to "hello,
> > world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after
> > that fact would be very beneficial.
> >
> > I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some
> sections
> > on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much
> > detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
> > needed. :-)
> >
> > If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been
> meaning
> > to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
> >
> >
> >
>
--
Carlos Santana
<cs...@gmail.com>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =)
On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and
> see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can
> take it over.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of Kerri
> Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
> To: dev@cordova.apache.org
> Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
>
> Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to "hello,
> world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after
> that fact would be very beneficial.
>
> I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections
> on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much
> detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
> needed. :-)
>
> If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning
> to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
>
>
>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over.
________________________________________
From: kerrishotts@gmail.com <ke...@gmail.com> on behalf of Kerri Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to "hello,
world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after
that fact would be very beneficial.
I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections
on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much
detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
needed. :-)
If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning
to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Kerri Shotts <ke...@photokandy.com>.
Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to "hello,
world" is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after
that fact would be very beneficial.
I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections
on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much
detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as
needed. :-)
If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning
to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
___________________________________
Kerri Shotts
photoKandy Studios, LLC
On the Web: http://www.photokandy.com/
Social Media:
Twitter: @photokandy, http://twitter.com/photokandy
Tumblr: http://photokandy.tumblr.com/
Github: https://github.com/kerrishotts
https://github.com/organizations/photokandyStudios
CoderWall: https://coderwall.com/kerrishotts
Apps on the Apple Store:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/photokandy-studios-llc/id498577828
Books:
http://www.packtpub.com/phonegap-2-mobile-application-hotshot/book
http://www.packtpub.com/phonegap-social-app-development/book
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Marcel Kinard <cm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1. Once you get Hello World up and running, this should be these
> signposts on possibilities where to go next.
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Bluff_signpost.jpg
>
> This has natural potential for scope creep.
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > Terence, this too, smells like a good FAQ detail. To me, this document
> is more of a guide for things that a Cordova dev would need to know after
> getting past the basic Hello World.
> >
> > (Not saying my view on this is right, just how I see it.)
>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Marcel Kinard <cm...@gmail.com>.
+1. Once you get Hello World up and running, this should be these signposts on possibilities where to go next.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Bluff_signpost.jpg
This has natural potential for scope creep.
On May 1, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> Terence, this too, smells like a good FAQ detail. To me, this document is more of a guide for things that a Cordova dev would need to know after getting past the basic Hello World.
>
> (Not saying my view on this is right, just how I see it.)
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
Terence, this too, smells like a good FAQ detail. To me, this document is more of a guide for things that a Cordova dev would need to know after getting past the basic Hello World.
(Not saying my view on this is right, just how I see it.)
________________________________________
From: brian.leroux@gmail.com <br...@gmail.com> on behalf of Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 3:46 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
we use namespaces for that. anything under org.apache.cordova is maintained
by apache cordova
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com>wrote:
> From a relative newcomer's point of view, should some distinction be made
> between plugins officially maintained by Apache Cordova and those that are
> not?
>
> -Terence
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
we use namespaces for that. anything under org.apache.cordova is maintained
by apache cordova
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Terence M. Bandoian <te...@tmbsw.com>wrote:
> From a relative newcomer's point of view, should some distinction be made
> between plugins officially maintained by Apache Cordova and those that are
> not?
>
> -Terence
>
>
>
> On 4/30/2014 4:40 PM, Andrew Grieve wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Ray Camden wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
>>>> for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7
>>> QMHXUHbkc
>>>
>>>> omWgk/edit#
>>>>
>>> Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
>>>
>>> The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
>>>> I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts, opinions, etc?
>>>>
>>> I like it.
>>>
>>> Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
>>>>
>>> I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
>>>
>>> FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made "editable via
>> those with the link" (as this one is).
>>
>> 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
>>> 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
>>> can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
>>> destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
>>> captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
>>> your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
>>> 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
>>> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/
>>> enabling_web_insp
>>> ector.html
>>> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/
>>> debugging_using_w
>>> eb_inspector.html
>>>
>>> 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
>>> 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate
>>> the
>>> accelerometer to test shake events/
>>> — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and
>>> ask
>>> it for an opinion :).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by "Terence M. Bandoian" <te...@tmbsw.com>.
From a relative newcomer's point of view, should some distinction be
made between plugins officially maintained by Apache Cordova and those
that are not?
-Terence
On 4/30/2014 4:40 PM, Andrew Grieve wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com> wrote:
>
>> Ray Camden wrote:
>>> I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
>>> for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
>>>
>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc
>>> omWgk/edit#
>> Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
>>
>>> The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
>>> I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
>>>
>>> Thoughts, opinions, etc?
>> I like it.
>>
>>> Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
>> I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
>>
> FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made "editable via
> those with the link" (as this one is).
>
>> 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
>> 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
>> can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
>> destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
>> captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
>> your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
>> 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
>> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
>> ector.html
>> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
>> eb_inspector.html
>>
>> 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
>> 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the
>> accelerometer to test shake events/
>> — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask
>> it for an opinion :).
>>
>>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
Personally, version control feels more like something that should in a FAQ than this doc, but this isn't my call, if you feel like it should be added, do it. :)
________________________________________
Should we add a section about version control? I see that question asked
from time to time: "What should I be checking in?", this could also be
expanded to tips for working on a team (what happens when one person uses
OSX and the other Windows) - although that is a more advanced use case.
Maybe we can change the "Handling Upgrades" section to "Handling Source
Code and Cordova Upgrades."
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com> wrote:
>
> > Ray Camden wrote:
> > > I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
> > > for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc
> > >omWgk/edit#
> >
> > Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
> >
> > > The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
> > > I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
> > >
> > > Thoughts, opinions, etc?
> >
> > I like it.
> >
> > > Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
> >
> > I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
> >
> FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made "editable via
> those with the link" (as this one is).
>
> > 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> > 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
> > can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
> > destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
> > captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
> > your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
> > 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
> >
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
> > ector.html
> >
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
> > eb_inspector.html
> >
> > 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
> > 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate
> the
> > accelerometer to test shake events/
> > — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and
> ask
> > it for an opinion :).
> >
> >
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Mike Billau <mi...@gmail.com>.
Looks awesome Ray, thanks a lot for taking this on!
I really like the SAP architecture section, I think that is probably one of
the biggest challenges new developers will face. I think we should include
some links to more in-depth discussions about SAP though, so I will try to
add some today. (I know that Carlos was working on http://spajs.io - it
looks dead but for example the architecture page looks pretty good:
http://spajs.io/pages/app-arch/index.html)
Should we add a section about version control? I see that question asked
from time to time: "What should I be checking in?", this could also be
expanded to tips for working on a team (what happens when one person uses
OSX and the other Windows) - although that is a more advanced use case.
Maybe we can change the "Handling Upgrades" section to "Handling Source
Code and Cordova Upgrades."
I added a note at the top that the document isn't prescriptive - echoing
Michael Brooks' thoughts in the origional JIRA item (CB-677).
I like it a lot so far, great job!
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com> wrote:
>
> > Ray Camden wrote:
> > > I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
> > > for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc
> > >omWgk/edit#
> >
> > Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
> >
> > > The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
> > > I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
> > >
> > > Thoughts, opinions, etc?
> >
> > I like it.
> >
> > > Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
> >
> > I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
> >
> FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made "editable via
> those with the link" (as this one is).
>
> > 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> > 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
> > can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
> > destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
> > captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
> > your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
> > 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
> >
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
> > ector.html
> >
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
> > eb_inspector.html
> >
> > 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
> > 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate
> the
> > accelerometer to test shake events/
> > — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and
> ask
> > it for an opinion :).
> >
> >
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Andrew Grieve <ag...@chromium.org>.
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com> wrote:
> Ray Camden wrote:
> > I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
> > for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc
> >omWgk/edit#
>
> Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
>
> > The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
> > I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
> >
> > Thoughts, opinions, etc?
>
> I like it.
>
> > Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
>
> I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
>
FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made "editable via
those with the link" (as this one is).
> 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
> can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
> destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
> captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
> your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
> 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
> ector.html
> https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
> eb_inspector.html
>
> 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
> 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the
> accelerometer to test shake events/
> — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask
> it for an opinion :).
>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
I get the sense I'm walking into a trap but I feel like its important to
keep the story straight here. Cordova facilitates building apps with web
technologies. Our original motivation was to give web technology a better
than fighting chance to overcome fragmented proprietary treadmills.
Apps have an advantageous position because they get installed by a
deliberate user action they enjoy a different security model than the open
web. The web sandbox is a feature: it is not a bug but device apis and to a
lesser extent app store distribution are compelling advantages.
The original intent of the thing now called Cordova was to level the
playing field, offer a future forward polyfill for emergent standards, and
to vet those standards in a faster-than-normal implementation. Ideally apps
authored in Cordova run in a browser. (A browser of today or the future.)
These goals for most of the committership have not changed. We're here to
help prove out web standards, paint over proprietary runtimes, to help
facilitate web technology to continue its advancement.
Web standards don't actually have much to do with browser development.
Implementations by vendors participate in the standards process but all
these lines are rather blurry and sort of outside the point. The point is
the web is crucial societal infrastructure. We need to keep the web open,
free, and accessible to all.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches
> holes in the sandbox. How does that "support the web"?
>
> That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web "standards"
> people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years.
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know
> > what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are
> > talking about is currently the means, not the goal.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> >>
> >>> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not
> route
> >>> around it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide
> access
> >> to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is
> very
> >> useful. In my case, essential.
> >>
>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
Publish, or write?
On May 1, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Hey Freak, which plugins did you publish?
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>.
Hey Freak, which plugins did you publish?
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches
> holes in the sandbox. How does that "support the web"?
>
> That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web "standards"
> people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years.
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know
> > what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are
> > talking about is currently the means, not the goal.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> >>
> >>> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not
> route
> >>> around it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide
> access
> >> to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is
> very
> >> useful. In my case, essential.
> >>
>
>
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by "Wolf, Michael J" <mi...@KPMG.com>.
Well said.
-----Original Message-----
From: brian.leroux@gmail.com [mailto:brian.leroux@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Brian LeRoux
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:04 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I get the sense I'm walking into a trap but I feel like its important to keep the story straight here. Cordova facilitates building apps with web technologies. Our original motivation was to give web technology a better than fighting chance to overcome fragmented proprietary treadmills.
Apps have an advantageous position because they get installed by a deliberate user action they enjoy a different security model than the open web. The web sandbox is a feature: it is not a bug but device apis and to a lesser extent app store distribution are compelling advantages.
The original intent of the thing now called Cordova was to level the playing field, offer a future forward polyfill for emergent standards, and to vet those standards in a faster-than-normal implementation. Ideally apps authored in Cordova run in a browser. (A browser of today or the future.) These goals for most of the committership have not changed. We're here to help prove out web standards, paint over proprietary runtimes, to help facilitate web technology to continue its advancement.
Web standards don't actually have much to do with browser development.
Implementations by vendors participate in the standards process but all these lines are rather blurry and sort of outside the point. The point is the web is crucial societal infrastructure. We need to keep the web open, free, and accessible to all.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> You write software that bypasses web browser security models and
> punches holes in the sandbox. How does that "support the web"?
>
> That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web "standards"
> people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years.
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We
> > know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years.
> > What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> >>
> >>> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web
> >>> not
> route
> >>> around it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide
> access
> >> to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser
> >> is
> very
> >> useful. In my case, essential.
> >>
>
>
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***********************************************************************
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches holes in the sandbox. How does that "support the web"?
That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web "standards" people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years.
On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron <sh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know
> what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are
> talking about is currently the means, not the goal.
>
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>>
>>> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route
>>> around it.
>>>
>>
>> No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access
>> to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very
>> useful. In my case, essential.
>>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Shazron <sh...@gmail.com>.
Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know
what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are
talking about is currently the means, not the goal.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>
> > WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route
> > around it.
> >
>
> No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access
> to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very
> useful. In my case, essential.
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Jesse <pu...@gmail.com>.
unsubscribe
@purplecabbage
risingj.com
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
>
> On May 1, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) <
> panarasi@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> > Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows
> platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if
> you really have to WebSQL.
> > Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable
> IndexedDB on unsupported browsers -
> https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published
> soon.
> >
> > Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB -
> https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544
> >
> > P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one
> standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written
> today does not break. :)
>
> Cool links. One more for you - if you really want to know how people feel
> about not getting WebSQL in Firefox and having the infinitely less capable
> indexeddb lameness foisted on them, here's a lovely little thread worth a
> read:
>
> https://plus.google.com/+KevinDangoor/posts/PHqKjkcNbLU?cfem=1
>
> Summary - the developers are not happy with indexedb at all and think the
> browser makers are being jerks. And indexdb has only been 'coming any day
> now' for....what five years?
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
On May 1, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) <pa...@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if you really have to WebSQL.
> Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable IndexedDB on unsupported browsers - https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published soon.
>
> Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB - https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544
>
> P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written today does not break. :)
Cool links. One more for you - if you really want to know how people feel about not getting WebSQL in Firefox and having the infinitely less capable indexeddb lameness foisted on them, here's a lovely little thread worth a read:
https://plus.google.com/+KevinDangoor/posts/PHqKjkcNbLU?cfem=1
Summary - the developers are not happy with indexedb at all and think the browser makers are being jerks. And indexdb has only been 'coming any day now' for....what five years?
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by "Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH)" <pa...@microsoft.com>.
Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if you really have to WebSQL.
Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable IndexedDB on unsupported browsers - https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published soon.
Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB - https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544
P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written today does not break. :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Freak Show [mailto:freakshow42@me.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2014 10:39 AM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not
> route around it.
>
No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route
> around it.
>
No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route
around it.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
> On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
>
> > On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> >
> > > 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> > > RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more
> > generic.
> >
> > Why? None of my apps work without it.
> >
> We aren't removing WebSQL, we are just removing it mention from the
> introductory guidance doc.
>
>
> >
> > I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they
> > remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite.
> I
> > think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me -
> > phonegap is the ultimate "screw you" to the squabbling web browser
> > companies. We will route around you if you get in our way.
>
> Wow.
>
>
> >
> > I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the
> > early days wasn't it?).
> >
> >
> >
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
I'm kind of "software is politics - screw the man" that way. ;-)
And I'm not really interested in working on cordova core but I'll write plugins all day as long as it is easy to do and the apis stay stable and browser limitations are in my way.
On May 1, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org> wrote:
> Wow.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Michal Mocny <mm...@chromium.org>.
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Freak Show <fr...@me.com> wrote:
> On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> > RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more
> generic.
>
> Why? None of my apps work without it.
>
We aren't removing WebSQL, we are just removing it mention from the
introductory guidance doc.
>
> I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they
> remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite. I
> think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me -
> phonegap is the ultimate "screw you" to the squabbling web browser
> companies. We will route around you if you get in our way.
Wow.
>
> I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the
> early days wasn't it?).
>
>
>
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Freak Show <fr...@me.com>.
On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com> wrote:
> 1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
> RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic.
Why? None of my apps work without it.
I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite. I think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me - phonegap is the ultimate "screw you" to the squabbling web browser companies. We will route around you if you get in our way.
I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the early days wasn't it?).
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
Replies with RKC.
________________________________________
1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic.
2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
RKC: I'm going to add a bit of text to ensure folks know it isn't perfect, and mention the XHR suggestion, but the big point I think is doing *something*.
3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
ector.html
https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
eb_inspector.html
RKC: Not to diminish BB, but I added a final subsection called Other Options and used this as a bullet. I assume we can just add more there. If folks feel this should be a top level item in the section, go ahead. :)
4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
RKC: I think both have merit though. If folks feel strongly I can swap em.
5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the
accelerometer to test shake events/
— this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask
it for an opinion :).
RKC: Nod, will do a grammar check before we officially hand this off to - whomever - to integrate. Actually - I have an official editor via Adobe for my blog - I may be able to use him.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Josh Soref <js...@blackberry.com>.
Ray Camden wrote:
> I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content
> for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
>
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc
>omWgk/edit#
Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads.
> The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section.
> I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
>
> Thoughts, opinions, etc?
I like it.
> Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but
1. Please don't mention WebSQL.
2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it
can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their
destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a
captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to
your backend, even though I do have some form of "network access".
3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box.
https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp
ector.html
https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w
eb_inspector.html
4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups
5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the
accelerometer to test shake events/
— this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask
it for an opinion :).
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by Ray Camden <ra...@adobe.com>.
I like his article - but don't think jQM is as bad as others do. (Disclaimer - I wrote a book on jQM.)
________________________________________
From: tommy-carlos williams <to...@devgeeks.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 4:14 PM
To: dev@cordova.apache.org
Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Ray,
This looks great.
Interesting choice to both link Brock’s “you half-assed it” article *and* list jQM first in the list of UI libs...
:)
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Posted by tommy-carlos williams <to...@devgeeks.org>.
Ray,
This looks great.
Interesting choice to both link Brock’s “you half-assed it” article *and* list jQM first in the list of UI libs...
:)
On 1 May 2014 at 6:50:53 am, Ray Camden (raycamde@adobe.com) wrote:
I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkcomWgk/edit#
The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially).
Thoughts, opinions, etc?
Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?