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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> on 2023/06/30 07:49:48 UTC
Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Hi all,
So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in my opinion).
Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
* A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@ or notifications@ or whatever)
* A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a project is up to – so will others.
Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got merged, that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions. https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults, but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be confused if we changed the defaults.
However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not for bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions should be had.
So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub tooling to the ones I proposed in https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
What do you folks think?
Chris
Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 2023-06-30 19:41, rbowen@rcbowen.com wrote:
> On Fri, 2023-06-30 at 13:55 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
>> * About breaking automation projects might have set up: I would
>> absolutely doubt there is even a single Apache project that has setup
>> automation based on these emails. I could imagine that there is a
>> hand full of companies paying attention to them, but in this case, I
>> would suggest optimizing for community and not these companies.
>
> Yes, we absolutely should prioritize our own project communities over
> companies. I didn't realize that we were concerned about *companies*
> doing this. They can update their tooling.
My two cents: Ask the projects if the change would break things for them
or not. It is likely that no one will complain.
Infra originally chose not to globally change the format out of an
abundance of caution, but that does not necessarily mean it is forever
set in stone. We just need to find out what is up and down here.
>
>
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Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by rb...@rcbowen.com.
On Fri, 2023-06-30 at 13:55 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> * About breaking automation projects might have set up: I would
> absolutely doubt there is even a single Apache project that has setup
> automation based on these emails. I could imagine that there is a
> hand full of companies paying attention to them, but in this case, I
> would suggest optimizing for community and not these companies.
Yes, we absolutely should prioritize our own project communities over
companies. I didn't realize that we were concerned about *companies*
doing this. They can update their tooling.
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AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi all,
Aggregating responses to multiple emails:
* Sending an Email ahead of time with a code-snippet that allows keeping the old defaults (If a project wants to keep the old, all they need to do is copy that to their .asf.yaml-file and nothing will change)
* About different Prefixes: Absolutely fine with longer prefixes. As I said, just wanted to keep them as short as possible for mobile reading
* About breaking automation projects might have set up: I would absolutely doubt there is even a single Apache project that has setup automation based on these emails. I could imagine that there is a hand full of companies paying attention to them, but in this case, I would suggest optimizing for community and not these companies.
Chris
Von: Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>
Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 15:38
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 30, 2023, at 2:14 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Bertrand,
>
> In general, I would agree, but the problem is that we currently have a very large number of unreadable lists.
> This is what I’m generally trying to fix. Some projects responded with “If the defaults are the ways they are, they probably are for a reason … we’ll stick with the defaults” … problem is I am very sure that there never was a discussion on how these defaults should look and that they are more that way for implementation reasons and not community reasons.
I know that infra did have discussions and had reasons that were not just tooling. I recall asking about subject length a few years ago. I’m not going to look right now. You might want to ask them.
Best,
Dave
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:11
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> Hi,
>
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 9:50 AM Christofer Dutz
>> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>> ...I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults, but generally
>> met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be bots that automatically
>> consume these emails and these would be confused if we changed the defaults...
>
> That's a totally valid concern IMO, but there might be two ways to
> change the defaults:
>
> a) change for all lists which don't have specific settings
> b) change for newly created lists from now on
>
> If b) is possible I think that's much safer, and ideally projects can
> opt-in to switch existing lists.
>
>> ...Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
>> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
>
> This looks nice to me, which is unsurprising, as people know I'm a big
> fan of Tags Everywhere ;-)
>
> -Bertrand
>
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Dave Fisher <wa...@comcast.net>.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jun 30, 2023, at 2:14 AM, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Bertrand,
>
> In general, I would agree, but the problem is that we currently have a very large number of unreadable lists.
> This is what I’m generally trying to fix. Some projects responded with “If the defaults are the ways they are, they probably are for a reason … we’ll stick with the defaults” … problem is I am very sure that there never was a discussion on how these defaults should look and that they are more that way for implementation reasons and not community reasons.
I know that infra did have discussions and had reasons that were not just tooling. I recall asking about subject length a few years ago. I’m not going to look right now. You might want to ask them.
Best,
Dave
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
> Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:11
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> Hi,
>
>> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 9:50 AM Christofer Dutz
>> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>> ...I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults, but generally
>> met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be bots that automatically
>> consume these emails and these would be confused if we changed the defaults...
>
> That's a totally valid concern IMO, but there might be two ways to
> change the defaults:
>
> a) change for all lists which don't have specific settings
> b) change for newly created lists from now on
>
> If b) is possible I think that's much safer, and ideally projects can
> opt-in to switch existing lists.
>
>> ...Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
>> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
>
> This looks nice to me, which is unsurprising, as people know I'm a big
> fan of Tags Everywhere ;-)
>
> -Bertrand
>
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 11:14 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...In general, I would agree, but the problem is that we currently have a very
> large number of unreadable lists....
Fixing this is a valid goal, but breaking automation that projects
might have setup is very bad.
I guess what's needed is a clear explanation of what's happening and
why, with a strong recommendation to switch but a way for projects to
opt out of that switch if they need to fix some automation.
-Bertrand
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AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Bertrand,
In general, I would agree, but the problem is that we currently have a very large number of unreadable lists.
This is what I’m generally trying to fix. Some projects responded with “If the defaults are the ways they are, they probably are for a reason … we’ll stick with the defaults” … problem is I am very sure that there never was a discussion on how these defaults should look and that they are more that way for implementation reasons and not community reasons.
Chris
Von: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 11:11
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Hi,
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 9:50 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults, but generally
> met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be bots that automatically
> consume these emails and these would be confused if we changed the defaults...
That's a totally valid concern IMO, but there might be two ways to
change the defaults:
a) change for all lists which don't have specific settings
b) change for newly created lists from now on
If b) is possible I think that's much safer, and ideally projects can
opt-in to switch existing lists.
> ...Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
This looks nice to me, which is unsurprising, as people know I'm a big
fan of Tags Everywhere ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 9:50 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults, but generally
> met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be bots that automatically
> consume these emails and these would be confused if we changed the defaults...
That's a totally valid concern IMO, but there might be two ways to
change the defaults:
a) change for all lists which don't have specific settings
b) change for newly created lists from now on
If b) is possible I think that's much safer, and ideally projects can
opt-in to switch existing lists.
> ...Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
This looks nice to me, which is unsurprising, as people know I'm a big
fan of Tags Everywhere ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Richard Zowalla <ri...@zowalla.com>.
We (Apache OpenNLP, Apache TomEE) have also implemented the suggestion you have made and I’m also very pleased with the results ;-)
We include the repo name too.
Am 28. Juli 2023 17:02:26 MESZ schrieb Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>:
>Well … that’s a bit of the problem
>
>Infra has been giving me quite some pushback on these changes.
>That’s why I didn’t just start creating PRs, but also discussing this matter in way too many mailing-lists.
>
>So, I could post a perma-link to this thread and hope they’ll accept it,
>Otherwise we’ll have to sort of find out “where to vote” first and then “do a vote” next.
>
>Chris
>
>
>Von: hans.van.akelyen@gmail.com <ha...@gmail.com>
>Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 16:17
>An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
>Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
>Does this really need a vote?
>
>If Infra agrees to change the defaults and it makes your life checking the mailing lists simpler it’s a win for everyone.
>We (Apache Hop) have also implemented the suggestion you have made and I’m very pleased with the results.
>
>As long as it is communicated in a timely manner and with a way for projects to revert it (which would be providing the lines we should add to the asf.yml to keep the current format) I do not really see an issue.
>
>Though I do think the default format should still include the repository name.
>It might be overkill for single repository projects but I think most projects have multiple repositories (even PLC4X has 3 of them so not sure how you are keeping the mails separated)
>
>
>Cheers,
>Hans
>On 28 Jul 2023 at 15:41 +0200, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>, wrote:
>> Well,
>>
>> That’s the problem … I am not sure who has the authority to vote on this.
>> The only thing I know is that when I tried bringing this up, I was guided from A to B, then from B to C, and on it goes.
>>
>> I think the issue is one rendering the mailing lists of many of our projects pretty much useless, which I consider a community problem.
>> However, ComDev doesn’t have any form of authority besides deciding which stickers to order ;-)
>> I would however like to see ComDev get a bit more teeth and actually start having a say in community related topics.
>>
>> I could imagine that I could also ask on Members, but it sort of feels like carrying a bloody steak into the hungry lion’s den.
>>
>> So … anyone got any pointers to if and where we should decide on defaults like this?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Von: rbowen@rcbowen.com <rb...@rcbowen.com>
>> Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 15:11
>> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
>> Betreff: Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
>> On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 19:46 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
>> > Ok,
>> >
>> > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I
>> > prepared a PR and that was merged today.
>> > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
>> > variable ;-)
>> >
>> > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
>> >
>> > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
>> > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
>> > (including the repository).
>> >
>> > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
>>
>> Who's voting? That is, who has the authority to make this change? Yes,
>> I'm in favor of such a change, but surely Infra are the folks that have
>> the actual reins here, right?
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote :
>
> ... Infra has been giving me quite some pushback on these changes...
I think backing your request by a comdev pmc vote can help, as it's then a
group representing multiple projects that makes the request, instead of
just you.
Bertrand
AW: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Well … that’s a bit of the problem
Infra has been giving me quite some pushback on these changes.
That’s why I didn’t just start creating PRs, but also discussing this matter in way too many mailing-lists.
So, I could post a perma-link to this thread and hope they’ll accept it,
Otherwise we’ll have to sort of find out “where to vote” first and then “do a vote” next.
Chris
Von: hans.van.akelyen@gmail.com <ha...@gmail.com>
Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 16:17
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Does this really need a vote?
If Infra agrees to change the defaults and it makes your life checking the mailing lists simpler it’s a win for everyone.
We (Apache Hop) have also implemented the suggestion you have made and I’m very pleased with the results.
As long as it is communicated in a timely manner and with a way for projects to revert it (which would be providing the lines we should add to the asf.yml to keep the current format) I do not really see an issue.
Though I do think the default format should still include the repository name.
It might be overkill for single repository projects but I think most projects have multiple repositories (even PLC4X has 3 of them so not sure how you are keeping the mails separated)
Cheers,
Hans
On 28 Jul 2023 at 15:41 +0200, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>, wrote:
> Well,
>
> That’s the problem … I am not sure who has the authority to vote on this.
> The only thing I know is that when I tried bringing this up, I was guided from A to B, then from B to C, and on it goes.
>
> I think the issue is one rendering the mailing lists of many of our projects pretty much useless, which I consider a community problem.
> However, ComDev doesn’t have any form of authority besides deciding which stickers to order ;-)
> I would however like to see ComDev get a bit more teeth and actually start having a say in community related topics.
>
> I could imagine that I could also ask on Members, but it sort of feels like carrying a bloody steak into the hungry lion’s den.
>
> So … anyone got any pointers to if and where we should decide on defaults like this?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> Von: rbowen@rcbowen.com <rb...@rcbowen.com>
> Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 15:11
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 19:46 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > Ok,
> >
> > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I
> > prepared a PR and that was merged today.
> > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> > variable ;-)
> >
> > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
> >
> > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> > (including the repository).
> >
> > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
>
> Who's voting? That is, who has the authority to make this change? Yes,
> I'm in favor of such a change, but surely Infra are the folks that have
> the actual reins here, right?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by ha...@gmail.com.
Does this really need a vote?
If Infra agrees to change the defaults and it makes your life checking the mailing lists simpler it’s a win for everyone.
We (Apache Hop) have also implemented the suggestion you have made and I’m very pleased with the results.
As long as it is communicated in a timely manner and with a way for projects to revert it (which would be providing the lines we should add to the asf.yml to keep the current format) I do not really see an issue.
Though I do think the default format should still include the repository name.
It might be overkill for single repository projects but I think most projects have multiple repositories (even PLC4X has 3 of them so not sure how you are keeping the mails separated)
Cheers,
Hans
On 28 Jul 2023 at 15:41 +0200, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>, wrote:
> Well,
>
> That’s the problem … I am not sure who has the authority to vote on this.
> The only thing I know is that when I tried bringing this up, I was guided from A to B, then from B to C, and on it goes.
>
> I think the issue is one rendering the mailing lists of many of our projects pretty much useless, which I consider a community problem.
> However, ComDev doesn’t have any form of authority besides deciding which stickers to order ;-)
> I would however like to see ComDev get a bit more teeth and actually start having a say in community related topics.
>
> I could imagine that I could also ask on Members, but it sort of feels like carrying a bloody steak into the hungry lion’s den.
>
> So … anyone got any pointers to if and where we should decide on defaults like this?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> Von: rbowen@rcbowen.com <rb...@rcbowen.com>
> Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 15:11
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 19:46 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> > Ok,
> >
> > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I
> > prepared a PR and that was merged today.
> > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> > variable ;-)
> >
> > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
> >
> > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> > (including the repository).
> >
> > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
>
> Who's voting? That is, who has the authority to make this change? Yes,
> I'm in favor of such a change, but surely Infra are the folks that have
> the actual reins here, right?
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
AW: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Well,
That’s the problem … I am not sure who has the authority to vote on this.
The only thing I know is that when I tried bringing this up, I was guided from A to B, then from B to C, and on it goes.
I think the issue is one rendering the mailing lists of many of our projects pretty much useless, which I consider a community problem.
However, ComDev doesn’t have any form of authority besides deciding which stickers to order ;-)
I would however like to see ComDev get a bit more teeth and actually start having a say in community related topics.
I could imagine that I could also ask on Members, but it sort of feels like carrying a bloody steak into the hungry lion’s den.
So … anyone got any pointers to if and where we should decide on defaults like this?
Chris
Von: rbowen@rcbowen.com <rb...@rcbowen.com>
Datum: Freitag, 28. Juli 2023 um 15:11
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 19:46 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Ok,
>
> so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I
> prepared a PR and that was merged today.
> Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> variable ;-)
>
> I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
>
> Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> (including the repository).
>
> What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
Who's voting? That is, who has the authority to make this change? Yes,
I'm in favor of such a change, but surely Infra are the folks that have
the actual reins here, right?
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Re: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by rb...@rcbowen.com.
On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 19:46 +0000, Christofer Dutz wrote:
> Ok,
>
> so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I
> prepared a PR and that was merged today.
> Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> variable ;-)
>
> I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
>
> Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> (including the repository).
>
> What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
Who's voting? That is, who has the authority to make this change? Yes,
I'm in favor of such a change, but surely Infra are the folks that have
the actual reins here, right?
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by rb...@rcbowen.com.
On Thu, 2023-07-27 at 16:11 -0400, Kelly Oglesbee wrote:
> exactly what emails are you changing, because I'm experiencing
> problems
> with my emails on my device?
Can you elaborate? What problems are you experiencing? How can the
situation be improved?
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>.
Yu mid showing me the steps involve in this because Im a new comitter
On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 4:35 PM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi Kelly,
>
> Well, I’m proposing to change the defaults for email automatically sent
> from GitHub for PRs, Issues and Discussions.
> I’m not changing anything right now … I just had one check removed that
> validates the custom patterns a project has in its .asf.yaml
> So technically this change shouldn’t have changed anything at all … it
> just allows you to do it now, and I guess so far only PLC4X uses this
> feature.
>
> Chris
>
> Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Donnerstag, 27. Juli 2023 um 22:12
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> exactly what emails are you changing, because I'm experiencing problems
> with my emails on my device?
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:52 PM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm OK with a vote, make sure you explain what -1 means in this context
> > (count vs veto)
> >
> >
> > TY!
> > Gary
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:46 PM Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ok,
> > >
> > > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I prepared
> a
> > > PR and that was merged today.
> > > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> > variable
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
> > >
> > > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> > > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> > > (including the repository).
> > >
> > > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2023 um 14:35
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the
> > > “repository” variable,
> > > But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s
> for
> > > some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom
> > > email templates for GitHub ;-)
> > >
> > > So, I opened a discussion thread
> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
> > > Feel free to add your comments to it.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system
> > > starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
> > > If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
> > >
> > > Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
> > > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Why id this necessary?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Phil,
> > > >
> > > > Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> > > > seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> > > > For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> > > > subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t
> > > interrupt
> > > > my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
> > > >
> > > > And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR]
> > for
> > > > Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> > > > I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a
> > PR,
> > > > Issue or Discussion.
> > > > Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> > > > really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> > > > general-purpose discussion.
> > > > In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before …
> > everything
> > > > was just a discussion.
> > > > But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor
> of
> > > the
> > > > smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> > > > well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> > > > could change it ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> > > > Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> > > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > > +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> > > > commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if
> > the
> > > > tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing
> > > that
> > > > would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go
> back
> > > to
> > > > what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion
> > > [Commons-Foo]
> > > > is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> > > > messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk
> > > about
> > > > this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the
> subject
> > > > line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
> > > >
> > > > Phil
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > > > > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from
> GitHub,
> > > > > so hopefully this will help.
> > > > >
> > > > > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even
> > to
> > > > > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible
> to
> > > > > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > > > > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > > > > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping
> would
> > > > > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > > > > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project
> > > before
> > > > > and after the config changes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but
> this
> > > is
> > > > > the best positive example I know)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Before the change:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > > > > Here you can see, that:
> > > > > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very
> > > large
> > > > > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same
> > > thing
> > > > > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > > > > :
> > > > > > Here you can see:
> > > > > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > > > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > > > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > > > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial
> > post
> > > > > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason
> for
> > > one
> > > > > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on
> > > 16.06.2023)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > > > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > > > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email
> > titles?
> > > > > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > > > > ...snip...
> > > > > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the
> > > GitHub
> > > > > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > > > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > > > > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and
> > > then
> > > > > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> > > > practice
> > > > > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any
> > > changes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project.
> > > Come
> > > > > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week
> of
> > > > > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL
> that
> > > > shows
> > > > > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list.
> > Directly
> > > > > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do
> it!"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > > > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for
> > projects
> > > > > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at
> helping
> > > > > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this
> > is a
> > > > > > good idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup
> > best
> > > > > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > > > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to
> do/configure*
> > > > which
> > > > > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the
> > best
> > > > > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and
> > > other
> > > > > > pointers to technical reference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying
> > > "the
> > > > > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here
> to
> > > > > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for
> > all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > - Shane
> > > > > > ComDev PMC
> > > > > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Kelly,
Well, I’m proposing to change the defaults for email automatically sent from GitHub for PRs, Issues and Discussions.
I’m not changing anything right now … I just had one check removed that validates the custom patterns a project has in its .asf.yaml
So technically this change shouldn’t have changed anything at all … it just allows you to do it now, and I guess so far only PLC4X uses this feature.
Chris
Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
Datum: Donnerstag, 27. Juli 2023 um 22:12
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
exactly what emails are you changing, because I'm experiencing problems
with my emails on my device?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:52 PM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm OK with a vote, make sure you explain what -1 means in this context
> (count vs veto)
>
>
> TY!
> Gary
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:46 PM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Ok,
> >
> > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I prepared a
> > PR and that was merged today.
> > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> variable
> > ;-)
> >
> > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
> >
> > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> > (including the repository).
> >
> > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2023 um 14:35
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the
> > “repository” variable,
> > But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s for
> > some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom
> > email templates for GitHub ;-)
> >
> > So, I opened a discussion thread
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
> > Feel free to add your comments to it.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system
> > starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
> > If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
> >
> > Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
> > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Why id this necessary?
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Phil,
> > >
> > > Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> > > seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> > > For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> > > subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t
> > interrupt
> > > my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
> > >
> > > And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR]
> for
> > > Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> > > I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a
> PR,
> > > Issue or Discussion.
> > > Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> > > really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> > > general-purpose discussion.
> > > In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before …
> everything
> > > was just a discussion.
> > > But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of
> > the
> > > smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> > > well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> > > could change it ;-)
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> > > commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if
> the
> > > tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing
> > that
> > > would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back
> > to
> > > what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion
> > [Commons-Foo]
> > > is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> > > messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk
> > about
> > > this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> > > line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> > > >
> > > > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > > > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > > > so hopefully this will help.
> > > >
> > > > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even
> to
> > > > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > > > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> > > >
> > > > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > > > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > > > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > > > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > > > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project
> > before
> > > > and after the config changes:
> > > > >
> > > > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this
> > is
> > > > the best positive example I know)
> > > > >
> > > > > Before the change:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > > > Here you can see, that:
> > > > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very
> > large
> > > > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same
> > thing
> > > > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > > > :
> > > > > Here you can see:
> > > > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial
> post
> > > > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for
> > one
> > > > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on
> > 16.06.2023)
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email
> titles?
> > > > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > > > ...snip...
> > > > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the
> > GitHub
> > > > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and
> > then
> > > > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> > > practice
> > > > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any
> > changes.
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > > > >
> > > > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project.
> > Come
> > > > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> > > shows
> > > > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list.
> Directly
> > > > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > > > >
> > > > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for
> projects
> > > > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this
> is a
> > > > > good idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup
> best
> > > > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> > > which
> > > > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the
> best
> > > > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > > > >
> > > > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and
> > other
> > > > > pointers to technical reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying
> > "the
> > > > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for
> all.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > - Shane
> > > > > ComDev PMC
> > > > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>.
exactly what emails are you changing, because I'm experiencing problems
with my emails on my device?
On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:52 PM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm OK with a vote, make sure you explain what -1 means in this context
> (count vs veto)
>
>
> TY!
> Gary
>
> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:46 PM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Ok,
> >
> > so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I prepared a
> > PR and that was merged today.
> > Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository”
> variable
> > ;-)
> >
> > I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
> >
> > Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> > I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> > (including the repository).
> >
> > What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2023 um 14:35
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the
> > “repository” variable,
> > But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s for
> > some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom
> > email templates for GitHub ;-)
> >
> > So, I opened a discussion thread
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
> > Feel free to add your comments to it.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system
> > starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
> > If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
> >
> > Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
> > Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Why id this necessary?
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Phil,
> > >
> > > Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> > > seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> > > For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> > > subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t
> > interrupt
> > > my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
> > >
> > > And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR]
> for
> > > Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> > > I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a
> PR,
> > > Issue or Discussion.
> > > Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> > > really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> > > general-purpose discussion.
> > > In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before …
> everything
> > > was just a discussion.
> > > But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of
> > the
> > > smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> > > well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> > > could change it ;-)
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> > > commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if
> the
> > > tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing
> > that
> > > would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back
> > to
> > > what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion
> > [Commons-Foo]
> > > is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> > > messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk
> > about
> > > this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> > > line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
> > >
> > > Phil
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> > > >
> > > > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > > > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > > > so hopefully this will help.
> > > >
> > > > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even
> to
> > > > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > > > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> > > >
> > > > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > > > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > > > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > > > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> > > >
> > > > Gary
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > > > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project
> > before
> > > > and after the config changes:
> > > > >
> > > > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this
> > is
> > > > the best positive example I know)
> > > > >
> > > > > Before the change:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > > > Here you can see, that:
> > > > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very
> > large
> > > > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same
> > thing
> > > > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > > > :
> > > > > Here you can see:
> > > > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial
> post
> > > > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for
> > one
> > > > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on
> > 16.06.2023)
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email
> titles?
> > > > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > > > ...snip...
> > > > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the
> > GitHub
> > > > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > > > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and
> > then
> > > > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> > > practice
> > > > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any
> > changes.
> > > > >
> > > > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > > > >
> > > > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project.
> > Come
> > > > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> > > shows
> > > > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list.
> Directly
> > > > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > > > >
> > > > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for
> projects
> > > > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this
> is a
> > > > > good idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup
> best
> > > > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> > > which
> > > > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the
> best
> > > > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > > > >
> > > > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and
> > other
> > > > > pointers to technical reference.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying
> > "the
> > > > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for
> all.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > - Shane
> > > > > ComDev PMC
> > > > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
I'm OK with a vote, make sure you explain what -1 means in this context
(count vs veto)
TY!
Gary
On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 3:46 PM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Ok,
>
> so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I prepared a
> PR and that was merged today.
> Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository” variable
> ;-)
>
> I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
>
> Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
> I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested
> (including the repository).
>
> What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2023 um 14:35
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> Hi all,
>
> So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the
> “repository” variable,
> But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s for
> some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom
> email templates for GitHub ;-)
>
> So, I opened a discussion thread
> https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
> Feel free to add your comments to it.
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system
> starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
> If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
>
> Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> Why id this necessary?
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> > seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> > For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> > subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t
> interrupt
> > my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
> >
> > And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for
> > Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> > I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR,
> > Issue or Discussion.
> > Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> > really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> > general-purpose discussion.
> > In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything
> > was just a discussion.
> > But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of
> the
> > smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> > well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> > could change it ;-)
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> > Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> > commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
> > tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing
> that
> > would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back
> to
> > what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion
> [Commons-Foo]
> > is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> > messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk
> about
> > this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> > line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> > >
> > > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > > so hopefully this will help.
> > >
> > > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> > > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> > >
> > > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> > >
> > > Gary
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project
> before
> > > and after the config changes:
> > > >
> > > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this
> is
> > > the best positive example I know)
> > > >
> > > > Before the change:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > > Here you can see, that:
> > > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very
> large
> > > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same
> thing
> > > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > > >
> > > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > > :
> > > > Here you can see:
> > > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> > > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for
> one
> > > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on
> 16.06.2023)
> > > >
> > > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > > ...snip...
> > > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the
> GitHub
> > > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > >
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > > >
> > > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and
> then
> > > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> > practice
> > > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any
> changes.
> > > >
> > > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > > >
> > > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project.
> Come
> > > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> > shows
> > > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > > >
> > > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > > > good idea.
> > > >
> > > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> > which
> > > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > > >
> > > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and
> other
> > > > pointers to technical reference.
> > > >
> > > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying
> "the
> > > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Shane
> > > > ComDev PMC
> > > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Ok,
so after the discussion didn’t come up with any objections. I prepared a PR and that was merged today.
Now the templates no longer have to have a mandatory “repository” variable ;-)
I updated the PLC4X settings and it seems to be working nicely.
Sooooo … where are we on this discussion?
I would still like to change the defaults to the patterns I suggested (including the repository).
What’s your thoughts? Should I simply start a vote?
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Juli 2023 um 14:35
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Hi all,
So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the “repository” variable,
But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s for some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom email templates for GitHub ;-)
So, I opened a discussion thread https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
Feel free to add your comments to it.
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Why id this necessary?
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t interrupt
> my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
>
> And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for
> Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR,
> Issue or Discussion.
> Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> general-purpose discussion.
> In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything
> was just a discussion.
> But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of the
> smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> could change it ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
> tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
> would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
> what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
> is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
> this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > so hopefully this will help.
> >
> > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> >
> > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> > and after the config changes:
> > >
> > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> > the best positive example I know)
> > >
> > > Before the change:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > Here you can see, that:
> > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > >
> > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > :
> > > Here you can see:
> > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> > >
> > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > ...snip...
> > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > >
> > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> practice
> > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> > >
> > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > >
> > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> shows
> > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > >
> > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > > good idea.
> > >
> > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> which
> > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > >
> > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > > pointers to technical reference.
> > >
> > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Shane
> > > ComDev PMC
> > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi all,
So, I’ve tracked down the requirement to the test, that requires the “repository” variable,
But it doesn’t really explain why it’s required. I was told that it’s for some 20 year old reason, however that simply can’t apply to the custom email templates for GitHub ;-)
So, I opened a discussion thread https://lists.apache.org/thread/wz6f71wovzsz0nk6bdpgs8m17f07o2ko
Feel free to add your comments to it.
Chris
Von: Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 16:29
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Why id this necessary?
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t interrupt
> my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
>
> And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for
> Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR,
> Issue or Discussion.
> Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> general-purpose discussion.
> In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything
> was just a discussion.
> But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of the
> smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> could change it ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
> tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
> would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
> what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
> is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
> this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > so hopefully this will help.
> >
> > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> >
> > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> > and after the config changes:
> > >
> > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> > the best positive example I know)
> > >
> > > Before the change:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > Here you can see, that:
> > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > >
> > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > :
> > > Here you can see:
> > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> > >
> > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > ...snip...
> > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > >
> > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> practice
> > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> > >
> > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > >
> > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> shows
> > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > >
> > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > > good idea.
> > >
> > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> which
> > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > >
> > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > > pointers to technical reference.
> > >
> > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Shane
> > > ComDev PMC
> > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
I have absolutely no idea … just whenever you leave it away the system starts yelling at you, telling you that it’s required ;-)
If the computer says so … I gotta obey ;-)
Von: Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>
Datum: Dienstag, 11. Juli 2023 um 15:00
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Why id this necessary?
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t interrupt
> my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
>
> And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for
> Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR,
> Issue or Discussion.
> Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> general-purpose discussion.
> In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything
> was just a discussion.
> But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of the
> smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> could change it ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
> tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
> would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
> what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
> is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
> this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > so hopefully this will help.
> >
> > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> >
> > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> > and after the config changes:
> > >
> > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> > the best positive example I know)
> > >
> > > Before the change:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > Here you can see, that:
> > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > >
> > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > :
> > > Here you can see:
> > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> > >
> > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > ...snip...
> > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > >
> > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> practice
> > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> > >
> > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > >
> > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> shows
> > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > >
> > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > > good idea.
> > >
> > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> which
> > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > >
> > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > > pointers to technical reference.
> > >
> > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Shane
> > > ComDev PMC
> > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Kelly Oglesbee <hu...@gmail.com>.
Why id this necessary?
On Tue, Jul 11, 2023, 8:56 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi Phil,
>
> Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there
> seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
> For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the
> subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t interrupt
> my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
>
> And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for
> Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
> I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR,
> Issue or Discussion.
> Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t
> really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a
> general-purpose discussion.
> In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything
> was just a discussion.
> But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of the
> smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
> well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I
> could change it ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
> Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
> Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> +1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
> commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
> tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
> would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
> what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
> is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
> messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
> this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
> line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
>
> Phil
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> > changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> > so hopefully this will help.
> >
> > For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> > the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> > read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
> >
> > For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> > just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> > means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> > be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> > and after the config changes:
> > >
> > > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> > the best positive example I know)
> > >
> > > Before the change:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > > Here you can see, that:
> > > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> > on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> > >
> > > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> > >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> > :
> > > Here you can see:
> > > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > > b) Threads are grouped together
> > > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> > seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> > or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> > >
> > > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > > ...snip...
> > > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > >
> > > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best
> practice
> > > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> > >
> > > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> > >
> > > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that
> shows
> > > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> > >
> > > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > > good idea.
> > >
> > > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure*
> which
> > > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> > >
> > > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > > pointers to technical reference.
> > >
> > > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Shane
> > > ComDev PMC
> > > The Apache Software Foundation
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Phil,
Well, you can somewhat reduce it to whatever you like … however there seems to be one limitation, which I can’t quite explain.
For some reason you need to have the repository name as part of the subject line. That’s why I added it to the end as there it didn’t interrupt my speed-reading and didn’t show up on my phone.
And yeah … I agree that I also prefer the super-minimal prefixes [PR] for Pull-Requests [I] for Issues and [D] for Discussions.
I think it takes me something round half a second to know that it’s a PR, Issue or Discussion.
Generally, I could even live without them all together as it doesn’t really matter, if a discussion is about a PR, Issue or just a general-purpose discussion.
In an all-email workflow, we never had these prefixes before … everything was just a discussion.
But if you ask me .. I’d keep the minimal prefixes, but be in favor of the smaller ones above [PULL-REQUEST], [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION] …
well … I guess that was why I chose these defaults for the projects I could change it ;-)
Chris
Von: Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>
Datum: Mittwoch, 5. Juli 2023 um 20:57
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
+1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
Phil
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
>
> I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> so hopefully this will help.
>
> For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
>
> For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> and after the config changes:
> >
> > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> the best positive example I know)
> >
> > Before the change:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > Here you can see, that:
> > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> >
> > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> :
> > Here you can see:
> > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > b) Threads are grouped together
> > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> >
> > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > ...snip...
> > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> tooling to the ones I proposed in
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > Like StreamPipes:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> >
> > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best practice
> > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> >
> > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> >
> > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that shows
> > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> >
> > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > good idea.
> >
> > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure* which
> > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> >
> > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > pointers to technical reference.
> >
> > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> >
> > --
> > - Shane
> > ComDev PMC
> > The Apache Software Foundation
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Phil Steitz <ph...@gmail.com>.
+1 from another Commons contributor drowning in the flood of cruft on
commons-dev. Shorter subject lines would be great. I don't know if the
tooling would support or can be customized for Commons, but one thing that
would help would be to uniformly drop the word "Commons", so we go back to
what we did when we actually used the dev list for discussion [Commons-Foo]
is just [Foo]. There is also no value in the [GitHub] prefix in the
messages from there. All PRs come from there. Probably should talk about
this on Commons-dev (maybe with some special decorations on the subject
line so people will see it amidst all of the bot stuff :)
Phil
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 5:48 AM Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
>
> I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
> changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
> so hopefully this will help.
>
> For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
> the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
> read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
>
> For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
> just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
> means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
> be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
>
> Gary
>
> On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before
> and after the config changes:
> >
> > (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is
> the best positive example I know)
> >
> > Before the change:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> > Here you can see, that:
> > a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> > b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing
> on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
> >
> > Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18
> :
> > Here you can see:
> > a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> > b) Threads are grouped together
> > c) You can actually follow a thread
> > (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post
> seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one
> or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
> >
> > Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> > Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> > An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> > Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> > Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> > ...snip...
> > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> tooling to the ones I proposed in
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > Like StreamPipes:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> >
> > +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> > holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best practice
> > and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
> >
> > A couple of things I'd love to see:
> >
> > - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> > up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> > old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that shows
> > a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> > seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
> >
> > - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> > practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> > that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> > convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> > good idea.
> >
> > When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> > practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> > "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure* which
> > would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> > practice configuration, explaining what it does.
> >
> > After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> > pointers to technical reference.
> >
> > Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> > default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> > opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
> >
> > --
> > - Shane
> > ComDev PMC
> > The Apache Software Foundation
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for sharing these links; what a great start :-)
I'm pretty sure the Commons community will welcome these kinds of
changes where a complaint has been the "flood" of emails from GitHub,
so hopefully this will help.
For my money though, I'd prefer much shorter subject prefixes, even to
the extreme, I'll just learn the codes, otherwise, it's impossible to
read on my phone, which would be counterproductive (for me).
For example, [BUILD-FAILURE] -> [BUILD-FAIL] -> [BUILD-F] -> [B-F],
just something much shorter, again, think phone. B means Build, F
means Fail, that kinda mapping. I'm not sure where the mapping would
be best documented, perhaps on each project's mailing list page.
Gary
On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 8:12 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before and after the config changes:
>
> (Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is the best positive example I know)
>
> Before the change:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
> Here you can see, that:
> a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
> b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
>
> Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18:
> Here you can see:
> a) Greatly reduced number of threads
> b) Threads are grouped together
> c) You can actually follow a thread
> (The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
>
> Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
> Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
> An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
> Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
> Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
> ...snip...
> > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub tooling to the ones I proposed in https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
>
> +1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
> holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best practice
> and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
>
> A couple of things I'd love to see:
>
> - A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
> up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
> old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that shows
> a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
> seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
>
> - Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
> practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
> that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
> convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
> good idea.
>
> When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
> practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
> "Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure* which
> would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
> practice configuration, explaining what it does.
>
> After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
> pointers to technical reference.
>
> Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
> default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
> opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
>
> --
> - Shane
> ComDev PMC
> The Apache Software Foundation
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi all,
So here’s an example of one week’s email traffic on one project before and after the config changes:
(Sorry for putting the Spotlight on you streampipes folks, but this is the best positive example I know)
Before the change:
https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-1-9|dto=2023-1-15
Here you can see, that:
a) It’s hard to see what something is about as the prefix is very large
b) The only grouping happening is the same person doing the same thing on one issue (commenting on an issue for example)
Also, one week on the same list, with updated settings:
https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:dfr=2023-6-12|dto=2023-6-18:
Here you can see:
a) Greatly reduced number of threads
b) Threads are grouped together
c) You can actually follow a thread
(The reason so many threads start with “RE:” is that the initial post seems to be outside of the date-range of that week and the reason for one or two long discussion titles, was they changed the config on 16.06.2023)
Hope this brings a bit more context for some.
Chris
Von: Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>
Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 23:20
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
...snip...
> So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub tooling to the ones I proposed in https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
+1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best practice
and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
A couple of things I'd love to see:
- A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that shows
a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
- Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
good idea.
When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
"Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure* which
would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
practice configuration, explaining what it does.
After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
pointers to technical reference.
Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
--
- Shane
ComDev PMC
The Apache Software Foundation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Christofer Dutz wrote on 6/30/23 3:49 AM:
...snip...
> So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub tooling to the ones I proposed in https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> Like StreamPipes: https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
+1 to giving this several more days of review and refinement, and then
holding a vote to make this a ComDev PMC recommendation of best practice
and then working (separately) on how to announce and make any changes.
A couple of things I'd love to see:
- A clear example of a before and after within a single project. Come
up with a specific Ponymail date search URL that shows one week of
old-style notifications on a dev@ list, and then a second URL that shows
a week of new-style notifications from the same dev@ list. Directly
seeing that difference would really help cement "yes, let's do it!"
- Changing Chris' description page above to clearly show the best
practice first, and then talk about how to find options for projects
that want to customize. The page as written now is good at helping
convince someone new that 1) this is an easy change, and 2) this is a
good idea.
When we work on communications to PMCs, we need a "How-To setup best
practices for GH notifications" guide that focuses on the *why*
"Inclusion and transparency", and then the *steps to do/configure* which
would be brief description of asfyaml stuff, and start with the best
practice configuration, explaining what it does.
After that in the doc, include the original GH notifications and other
pointers to technical reference.
Thinking ahead, I'd be happy voting to send out PMCs email saying "the
default notifications are going to change on date X; email here to
opt-out". Keep track of opt-outs, and then change defaults for all.
--
- Shane
ComDev PMC
The Apache Software Foundation
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Jarek Potiuk <ja...@potiuk.com>.
Big +1 on that one.
There were cases in the past that some "breaking" changes in GitHub
integration were introduced already for various reasons.
Given some warnings and explanations why we are doing it (basically to
better fulfill our mission) it's a change that is pretty easily
actionable for the PMCs and individuals who subscribe to those messages
(Mostly it's reconfiguring bots and mailing filtering rules that one
would set up to filter the messages).
It's a change, for sure, and people will complain (this is a given and
expected), but overall I think the example with StreamPipes really shows
the reason why it's worth doing it.
I think one way to make it simple for the PMCs to accept such a change is
to have an explanation and simple instruction on how to go back to the
previous settings. Then the answer to complaints might be "Adapt your
bots/rules (best) or follow <these instructions> to bring back the old
setting".
BTW. I also agree having longer than single-letter [TOPICS] and always
prepend it with [GH] would be a more reasonable default.
J.
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 10:36 AM sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mostly agree, though I wonder why the numbers have been dropped from
> the shorter titles.
>
> [D] could be [DISCUSS] or [RFC] perhaps.
>
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 09:20, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I think this would be really great. I'm not a big fan of the [I] and [D]
> > topics, though. I think I'd rather see [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION], but
> either
> > way, the ability to group emails is a big improvement. I'd also prefer to
> > always include [GH] as a topic tag, so for example, [GH][ISSUE], so if
> > people don't redirect them to another list, I can filter them out more
> > easily. The reason for that is that I will still prefer to manage my
> > notification subscriptions directly with GitHub, and prefer to suppress
> > those on the lists by default.
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 03:50 Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now
> > > even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
> > > However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in
> my
> > > opinion).
> > >
> > > Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
> > >
> > > * A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@
> or
> > > notifications@ or whatever)
> > > * A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
> > >
> > > As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our
> > > mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
> > > But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a
> > > project is up to – so will others.
> > >
> > > Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the
> > > past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
> > > Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the
> > > subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got
> merged,
> > > that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions.
> > >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > >
> > > I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults,
> > > but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there
> would be
> > > bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be
> confused if
> > > we changed the defaults.
> > >
> > > However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not
> for
> > > bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very
> > > difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
> > >
> > > I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions
> should
> > > be had.
> > >
> > > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > > Like StreamPipes:
> > > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> > >
> > > What do you folks think?
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
AW: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi all,
well, I removed the issue numbers, as I thought that they only bring very limited value to the reader and the title itself gives way more context.
Of course, could we add them, but then I would recommend to add them at the end (just like the repository name).
And the reason I chose the “I”, “PR” and “D” was that I am subscribed to many lists and if I’m travelling, I read a lot of them on my phone (as I know others do too). I just wanted to keep the static stuff as short as possible to allow displaying more of the subject on small screens.
But I’m totally open to discussing the format as I am just 100% sure the current default is harmful.
Chris
Von: sebb <se...@gmail.com>
Datum: Freitag, 30. Juni 2023 um 10:36
An: dev@community.apache.org <de...@community.apache.org>
Betreff: Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Mostly agree, though I wonder why the numbers have been dropped from
the shorter titles.
[D] could be [DISCUSS] or [RFC] perhaps.
On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 09:20, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I think this would be really great. I'm not a big fan of the [I] and [D]
> topics, though. I think I'd rather see [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION], but either
> way, the ability to group emails is a big improvement. I'd also prefer to
> always include [GH] as a topic tag, so for example, [GH][ISSUE], so if
> people don't redirect them to another list, I can filter them out more
> easily. The reason for that is that I will still prefer to manage my
> notification subscriptions directly with GitHub, and prefer to suppress
> those on the lists by default.
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 03:50 Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now
> > even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
> > However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in my
> > opinion).
> >
> > Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
> >
> > * A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@ or
> > notifications@ or whatever)
> > * A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
> >
> > As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our
> > mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
> > But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a
> > project is up to – so will others.
> >
> > Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the
> > past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
> > Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the
> > subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got merged,
> > that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions.
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> >
> > I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults,
> > but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be
> > bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be confused if
> > we changed the defaults.
> >
> > However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not for
> > bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very
> > difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
> >
> > I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions should
> > be had.
> >
> > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> >
> > What do you folks think?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
Mostly agree, though I wonder why the numbers have been dropped from
the shorter titles.
[D] could be [DISCUSS] or [RFC] perhaps.
On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 at 09:20, Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> I think this would be really great. I'm not a big fan of the [I] and [D]
> topics, though. I think I'd rather see [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION], but either
> way, the ability to group emails is a big improvement. I'd also prefer to
> always include [GH] as a topic tag, so for example, [GH][ISSUE], so if
> people don't redirect them to another list, I can filter them out more
> easily. The reason for that is that I will still prefer to manage my
> notification subscriptions directly with GitHub, and prefer to suppress
> those on the lists by default.
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 03:50 Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now
> > even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
> > However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in my
> > opinion).
> >
> > Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
> >
> > * A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@ or
> > notifications@ or whatever)
> > * A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
> >
> > As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our
> > mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
> > But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a
> > project is up to – so will others.
> >
> > Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the
> > past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
> > Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the
> > subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got merged,
> > that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions.
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> >
> > I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults,
> > but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be
> > bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be confused if
> > we changed the defaults.
> >
> > However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not for
> > bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very
> > difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
> >
> > I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions should
> > be had.
> >
> > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> > https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> >
> > What do you folks think?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
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Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
I read a lot emails on my phone, so shorts subjects are good. If each
subject becomes [PROJECT][DISCUSSION][PR 123] then it's worse than now IMO.
Gary
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 04:20 Christopher <ct...@apache.org> wrote:
> I think this would be really great. I'm not a big fan of the [I] and [D]
> topics, though. I think I'd rather see [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION], but either
> way, the ability to group emails is a big improvement. I'd also prefer to
> always include [GH] as a topic tag, so for example, [GH][ISSUE], so if
> people don't redirect them to another list, I can filter them out more
> easily. The reason for that is that I will still prefer to manage my
> notification subscriptions directly with GitHub, and prefer to suppress
> those on the lists by default.
>
> On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 03:50 Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now
> > even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
> > However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in my
> > opinion).
> >
> > Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
> >
> > * A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@ or
> > notifications@ or whatever)
> > * A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
> >
> > As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our
> > mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
> > But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a
> > project is up to – so will others.
> >
> > Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the
> > past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
> > Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the
> > subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got
> merged,
> > that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions.
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> >
> > I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults,
> > but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there would
> be
> > bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be confused
> if
> > we changed the defaults.
> >
> > However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not
> for
> > bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very
> > difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
> >
> > I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions should
> > be had.
> >
> > So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> > tooling to the ones I proposed in
> >
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> > . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> > Like StreamPipes:
> > https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
> >
> > What do you folks think?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
Re: Changing the defaults for GitHub generated email titles?
Posted by Christopher <ct...@apache.org>.
I think this would be really great. I'm not a big fan of the [I] and [D]
topics, though. I think I'd rather see [ISSUE] and [DISCUSSION], but either
way, the ability to group emails is a big improvement. I'd also prefer to
always include [GH] as a topic tag, so for example, [GH][ISSUE], so if
people don't redirect them to another list, I can filter them out more
easily. The reason for that is that I will still prefer to manage my
notification subscriptions directly with GitHub, and prefer to suppress
those on the lists by default.
On Fri, Jun 30, 2023, 03:50 Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> So, we have made it possible to “integrate” GitHub PRs, Issues and now
> even Discussions by having infra auto-generate emails.
> However, is the default setting for these just completely useless (in my
> opinion).
>
> Without taking action currently there are only the following options:
>
> * A project just redirects the emails to another lists (commits@ or
> notifications@ or whatever)
> * A project gets a totally human-unreadable dev-list.
>
> As I see my role as a director in actually having a look at all of our
> mailinglists this has become more and more painful over time.
> But it got me thinking: If I’m having problems being able to see what a
> project is up to – so will others.
>
> Some of the projects will have received many comments from me over the
> past few months, as I’m trying to make dev-lists usable again.
> Infra did add the ability to customize the default templates for the
> subjects of auto-generated emails. And last month a PR of mine got merged,
> that also allowed the customization of GitHub Discussions.
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
>
> I had many discussions with folks at infra about changing the defaults,
> but generally met opposition. The general argument was, that there would be
> bots that automatically consume these emails and these would be confused if
> we changed the defaults.
>
> However, I think at the ASF we should be optimizing for people and not for
> bots. Right now we have many projects where following the list is very
> difficult and therefore we’re losing a big part of our transparency.
>
> I’m bringing this here as I think Comdev is where such discussions should
> be had.
>
> So in general, I would like to change the defaults used by the GitHub
> tooling to the ones I proposed in
> https://community.apache.org/contributors/mailing-lists.html#configuring-the-subject-lines-of-the-emails-being-sent
> . Quite a number of projects have adopted these settings:
> Like StreamPipes:
> https://lists.apache.org/list?dev@streampipes.apache.org:lte=4M
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> Chris
>
>