[logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>]

remy ran a regression test for RC6 (thanks :)

we no long ship the jdk logger in API jar. however, tomcat uses jdk
logger as it's default. so, by excluding the jdk logger, JCL 1.1 is no
longer a drop in replacement at least for tomcat.

so, i thought it'd be a good time to reconsider the decision to exclude
the jdk logger.

opinions?

- robert 


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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>]

I am in favor of putting it back (don't consider this "binding" though). Being able to be a drop in 
replacement of previous versions is pretty important for logging I think..

Mvgr,
Martin

robert burrell donkin wrote:
> remy ran a regression test for RC6 (thanks :)
> 
> we no long ship the jdk logger in API jar. however, tomcat uses jdk
> logger as it's default. so, by excluding the jdk logger, JCL 1.1 is no
> longer a drop in replacement at least for tomcat.
> 
> so, i thought it'd be a good time to reconsider the decision to exclude
> the jdk logger.
> 
> opinions?
> 
> - robert 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 

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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Simon Kitching <sk...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 17:19 +1000, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> As for the inclusion:
> as long as we clearly state that the use from the API jar is deprecated
> and it will be gone (from the API jar) in the next release it should be ok.
> 
> ...at some stage we should just fix this.

Well, I expect 1.1 to be the last release in the 1.x line, unless
something is badly broken.

A 2.x line will be able to do many things properly..

Cheers,

Simon


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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>]

On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 17:19 +1000, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> > The documentation for 1.1 makes it clear that the -api.jar has no real
> > purpose, and should generally be avoided. Hopefully we can encourage the
> > next tomcat release to include the full JCL 1.1 jar.
> >
> > The price paid is just mild offense to purists, who *are* correct that
> > this class doesn't really belong in a jar labelled "api".
> >
> > Right now, I'm rather tired of JCL (and I'm sure Robert feels worse).
> > Anything that gets this out the door without any more debate and testing
> > is good!
> 
> So many RCs ....I can feel your pain, guys
> (thanks for pushing it through anyway)
> 
> As for the inclusion:
> as long as we clearly state that the use from the API jar is deprecated
> and it will be gone (from the API jar) in the next release it should be ok.

luckily i managed to add a comment for RC8 before cutting it. take a
look at the language and feel free to dive if it isn't strong enough. i
hope to put RC8 to the vote this week but i see no reason not to improve
the documentation. 

> ...at some stage we should just fix this.

+1

one problem is that it's a transitional time over at tomcat: active
development is moving over to tomcat 6. tomcat 6 should ship a
statically bound custom JCL implementation created by costin. but will
probably be a tomcat 5 release or two before this happens.

- robert



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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>]

> The documentation for 1.1 makes it clear that the -api.jar has no real
> purpose, and should generally be avoided. Hopefully we can encourage the
> next tomcat release to include the full JCL 1.1 jar.
>
> The price paid is just mild offense to purists, who *are* correct that
> this class doesn't really belong in a jar labelled "api".
>
> Right now, I'm rather tired of JCL (and I'm sure Robert feels worse).
> Anything that gets this out the door without any more debate and testing
> is good!

So many RCs ....I can feel your pain, guys
(thanks for pushing it through anyway)

As for the inclusion:
as long as we clearly state that the use from the API jar is deprecated
and it will be gone (from the API jar) in the next release it should be ok.

...at some stage we should just fix this.

cheers
--
Torsten

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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Simon Kitching <sk...@apache.org>]

On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 14:16 +1000, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> On 4/6/06, Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org> wrote:
> > robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > > remy ran a regression test for RC6 (thanks :)
> > >
> > > we no long ship the jdk logger in API jar. however, tomcat uses jdk
> > > logger as it's default. so, by excluding the jdk logger, JCL 1.1 is no
> > > longer a drop in replacement at least for tomcat.
> > >
> > > so, i thought it'd be a good time to reconsider the decision to exclude
> > > the jdk logger.
> > >
> > > opinions?
> > >
> > > - robert
> >
> > I think we should allow for a smooth upgrade path, especially for Tomcat
> > users. If that means putting back the jdk logger, then let's do that.
> 
> -1
> 
> It's an API jar and should not include an implementation!
> 
> Why doesn't tomcat use the full JCL jar?

I have no idea. Probably some historical reason.

However this JCL release has taken so long now that I think it's worth
accepting a little bit of ugliness to get this out the door. No-one can
see any practical problem with having the JDK14Logger in the api jar,
and in practice it hasn't caused any problems in the 1.0.4 release
either. 

If we have it in there, there is less confusion on upgrades; api.jar for
1.0.4 can be replaced by api.jar for 1.1. There is also less risk; while
I can't see any behavioural changes that might occur by replacing the
old -api.jar with a new full jarfile we can avoid *any* change by making
things the same as the old release.

The documentation for 1.1 makes it clear that the -api.jar has no real
purpose, and should generally be avoided. Hopefully we can encourage the
next tomcat release to include the full JCL 1.1 jar.

The price paid is just mild offense to purists, who *are* correct that
this class doesn't really belong in a jar labelled "api".

Right now, I'm rather tired of JCL (and I'm sure Robert feels worse).
Anything that gets this out the door without any more debate and testing
is good!

Cheers,

Simon


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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Torsten Curdt <tc...@apache.org>]

On 4/6/06, Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
> > remy ran a regression test for RC6 (thanks :)
> >
> > we no long ship the jdk logger in API jar. however, tomcat uses jdk
> > logger as it's default. so, by excluding the jdk logger, JCL 1.1 is no
> > longer a drop in replacement at least for tomcat.
> >
> > so, i thought it'd be a good time to reconsider the decision to exclude
> > the jdk logger.
> >
> > opinions?
> >
> > - robert
>
> I think we should allow for a smooth upgrade path, especially for Tomcat
> users. If that means putting back the jdk logger, then let's do that.

-1

It's an API jar and should not include an implementation!

Why doesn't tomcat use the full JCL jar?

cheers
--
Torsten

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Re: [logging] redux: include jdk logger in API jar?

[Dennis Lundberg <de...@apache.org>]

robert burrell donkin wrote:
> remy ran a regression test for RC6 (thanks :)
> 
> we no long ship the jdk logger in API jar. however, tomcat uses jdk
> logger as it's default. so, by excluding the jdk logger, JCL 1.1 is no
> longer a drop in replacement at least for tomcat.
> 
> so, i thought it'd be a good time to reconsider the decision to exclude
> the jdk logger.
> 
> opinions?
> 
> - robert 

I think we should allow for a smooth upgrade path, especially for Tomcat 
users. If that means putting back the jdk logger, then let's do that.

-- 
Dennis Lundberg

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