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Posted to dev@tuscany.apache.org by ant elder <an...@gmail.com> on 2006/07/03 10:35:59 UTC
Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to Tuscany for
some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be made a
committer.
An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available right
now):
"If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-quality
patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has demonstrated the
ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it may be
proposed to grant that developer commit access."
I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats, votes, and
things like that. And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it shouldn't be to
hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an interest in
the project for a while we should encourage that.
What do others think?
...ant
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
On 7/3/06, Andrew Borley <aj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'd agree with this - however, as someone working on the C++ side of things
> I personally don't feel able to join in with the majority of discussion,
> centred, as it is, around the Java work. The C++ side is quieter, with Pete
> and Ed being the main (and only?) committers, and a few others submiting
> patches. Will being part of this quieter side reduce the chances of those
> submitters becoming committers? Hopefully not - perhaps we C++ers should get
> a bit noisier :-)
>
Setting implementation details aside as not being interesting :-)
please join in any of the discussions on scenarios etc. as I think
some would be applicable to both runtimes.
I chatted with Pete and Ed at ApacheConEU and asked them to be a bit
noisier :-) The C++ side is a little quiet.
--
Jeremy
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Andrew Borley <aj...@gmail.com>.
On 7/3/06, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
> participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats, votes,
> and
> things like that. And its not just code, high-quality patches could
> include
> things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it shouldn't be to
> hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an interest
> in
> the project for a while we should encourage that.
>
>
I'd agree with this - however, as someone working on the C++ side of things
I personally don't feel able to join in with the majority of discussion,
centred, as it is, around the Java work. The C++ side is quieter, with Pete
and Ed being the main (and only?) committers, and a few others submiting
patches. Will being part of this quieter side reduce the chances of those
submitters becoming committers? Hopefully not - perhaps we C++ers should get
a bit noisier :-)
Andy
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
In my opinion no, everyone has strengths and weaknesses and you don't have
to be able to do everything to become a committer. Its more about trust. If
someones speciality is doc they may never touch any code but they'd still
need commit access to update the website. This is the way the Apache WS
project works anyway, there's lots of sub-projects of the WS project (
http://ws.apache.org/) but any WS committer has commit access to all of
them. I think this works fine but it doesn't have to be that way, if we as a
community decide we want tighter controls we could probably do that.
...ant
On 7/4/06, Geoffrey Winn < geoff.winn@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> I assume that a committer, once elected, is active in the entire code
> base.
> This bothers me a little. I currently
> work entirely in the C++ implementation and do almost nothing with the
> Java
> code. I think I could easily reach a
> situation where I have done all the things required of a committer
> (whatever
> they turn out to be) in C++ land and
> nevertheless be largely ignorant of the Java code base. In fairness, I can
> also see the mirror image happening to
> someone else. Does that matter?
>
> Geoff.
>
> On 04/07/06, Jim Marino < jmarino@myromatours.com> wrote:
> >
> > Also forgot to mention the wiki is a god place to add scenarios you
> > are interested in either from an end-user perspective or as potential
> > implementor:
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/Scenarios
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:44 AM, Jim Marino wrote:
> >
> > > JIRA also can handle documentation, website, etc. "bugs" and
> > > "enhancements" if you want the proverbial notches on the bedpost ;-)
> > >
> > > On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:38 AM, kelvin goodson wrote:
> > >
> > >> +1 from me on taking into account diverse activities, but I must
> > >> declare a
> > >> vested interest.
> > >> I'm encouraged by this discussion, since I'd like to become a
> > >> committer, and
> > >> have had that niggling feeling that if it's notches on the jira
> > >> bedpost that
> > >> are the primary measure, then it's going to take a while longer
> > >> than I had
> > >> hoped. I have been doing a number of things which are material
> > >> contributions which haven't resulted in direct code updates.
> > >>
> > >> Regards, Kelvin.
> > >>
> > >> On 7/3/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
> > >>> > Tuscany for
> > >>> > some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes
> > >>> to be
> > >>> > made a
> > >>> > committer.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
> > >>> > right
> > >>> > now):
> > >>> >
> > >>> > "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-
> > >>> quality
> > >>> > patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
> > >>> > demonstrated the
> > >>> > ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
> > >>> > may be
> > >>> > proposed to grant that developer commit access."
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a
> > >>> committer -
> > >>> > participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
> > >>> > votes, and
> > >>> > things like that.
> > >>> Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would
> > >>> say is
> > >>> people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
> > >>> able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
> > >>> think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
> > >>> than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
> > >>> weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
> > >>> could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
> > >>> commitership.
> > >>>
> > >>> > And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
> > >>> > things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
> > >>> > shouldn't be to
> > >>> > hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
> > >>> > interest in
> > >>> > the project for a while we should encourage that.
> > >>> >
> > >>> It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
> > >>> substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
> > >>> that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
> > >>> frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
> > >>> documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
> > >>> to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was
> > >>> expected
> > >>> to become a commiter.
> > >>>
> > >>> Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
> > >>> making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
> > >>>
> > >>> Jim
> > >>>
> > >>> > What do others think?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > ...ant
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > >>> -
> > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Best Regards
> > >> Kelvin Goodson
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Geoffrey Winn <ge...@googlemail.com>.
I assume that a committer, once elected, is active in the entire code base.
This bothers me a little. I currently
work entirely in the C++ implementation and do almost nothing with the Java
code. I think I could easily reach a
situation where I have done all the things required of a committer (whatever
they turn out to be) in C++ land and
nevertheless be largely ignorant of the Java code base. In fairness, I can
also see the mirror image happening to
someone else. Does that matter?
Geoff.
On 04/07/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
>
> Also forgot to mention the wiki is a god place to add scenarios you
> are interested in either from an end-user perspective or as potential
> implementor:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/Scenarios
>
> Jim
>
> On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:44 AM, Jim Marino wrote:
>
> > JIRA also can handle documentation, website, etc. "bugs" and
> > "enhancements" if you want the proverbial notches on the bedpost ;-)
> >
> > On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:38 AM, kelvin goodson wrote:
> >
> >> +1 from me on taking into account diverse activities, but I must
> >> declare a
> >> vested interest.
> >> I'm encouraged by this discussion, since I'd like to become a
> >> committer, and
> >> have had that niggling feeling that if it's notches on the jira
> >> bedpost that
> >> are the primary measure, then it's going to take a while longer
> >> than I had
> >> hoped. I have been doing a number of things which are material
> >> contributions which haven't resulted in direct code updates.
> >>
> >> Regards, Kelvin.
> >>
> >> On 7/3/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
> >>> > Tuscany for
> >>> > some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes
> >>> to be
> >>> > made a
> >>> > committer.
> >>> >
> >>> > An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
> >>> > right
> >>> > now):
> >>> >
> >>> > "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-
> >>> quality
> >>> > patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
> >>> > demonstrated the
> >>> > ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
> >>> > may be
> >>> > proposed to grant that developer commit access."
> >>> >
> >>> > I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a
> >>> committer -
> >>> > participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
> >>> > votes, and
> >>> > things like that.
> >>> Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would
> >>> say is
> >>> people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
> >>> able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
> >>> think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
> >>> than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
> >>> weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
> >>> could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
> >>> commitership.
> >>>
> >>> > And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
> >>> > things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
> >>> > shouldn't be to
> >>> > hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
> >>> > interest in
> >>> > the project for a while we should encourage that.
> >>> >
> >>> It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
> >>> substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
> >>> that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
> >>> frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
> >>> documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
> >>> to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was
> >>> expected
> >>> to become a commiter.
> >>>
> >>> Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
> >>> making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
> >>>
> >>> Jim
> >>>
> >>> > What do others think?
> >>> >
> >>> > ...ant
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> -
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards
> >> Kelvin Goodson
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com>.
Also forgot to mention the wiki is a god place to add scenarios you
are interested in either from an end-user perspective or as potential
implementor:
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/Tuscany/TuscanyJava/Scenarios
Jim
On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:44 AM, Jim Marino wrote:
> JIRA also can handle documentation, website, etc. "bugs" and
> "enhancements" if you want the proverbial notches on the bedpost ;-)
>
> On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:38 AM, kelvin goodson wrote:
>
>> +1 from me on taking into account diverse activities, but I must
>> declare a
>> vested interest.
>> I'm encouraged by this discussion, since I'd like to become a
>> committer, and
>> have had that niggling feeling that if it's notches on the jira
>> bedpost that
>> are the primary measure, then it's going to take a while longer
>> than I had
>> hoped. I have been doing a number of things which are material
>> contributions which haven't resulted in direct code updates.
>>
>> Regards, Kelvin.
>>
>> On 7/3/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
>>>
>>> > There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
>>> > Tuscany for
>>> > some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes
>>> to be
>>> > made a
>>> > committer.
>>> >
>>> > An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
>>> > right
>>> > now):
>>> >
>>> > "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-
>>> quality
>>> > patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
>>> > demonstrated the
>>> > ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
>>> > may be
>>> > proposed to grant that developer commit access."
>>> >
>>> > I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a
>>> committer -
>>> > participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
>>> > votes, and
>>> > things like that.
>>> Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would
>>> say is
>>> people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
>>> able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
>>> think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
>>> than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
>>> weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
>>> could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
>>> commitership.
>>>
>>> > And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
>>> > things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
>>> > shouldn't be to
>>> > hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
>>> > interest in
>>> > the project for a while we should encourage that.
>>> >
>>> It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
>>> substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
>>> that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
>>> frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
>>> documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
>>> to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was
>>> expected
>>> to become a commiter.
>>>
>>> Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
>>> making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> > What do others think?
>>> >
>>> > ...ant
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards
>> Kelvin Goodson
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com>.
JIRA also can handle documentation, website, etc. "bugs" and
"enhancements" if you want the proverbial notches on the bedpost ;-)
On Jul 4, 2006, at 3:38 AM, kelvin goodson wrote:
> +1 from me on taking into account diverse activities, but I must
> declare a
> vested interest.
> I'm encouraged by this discussion, since I'd like to become a
> committer, and
> have had that niggling feeling that if it's notches on the jira
> bedpost that
> are the primary measure, then it's going to take a while longer
> than I had
> hoped. I have been doing a number of things which are material
> contributions which haven't resulted in direct code updates.
>
> Regards, Kelvin.
>
> On 7/3/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
>>
>> > There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
>> > Tuscany for
>> > some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be
>> > made a
>> > committer.
>> >
>> > An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
>> > right
>> > now):
>> >
>> > "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-
>> quality
>> > patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
>> > demonstrated the
>> > ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
>> > may be
>> > proposed to grant that developer commit access."
>> >
>> > I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a
>> committer -
>> > participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
>> > votes, and
>> > things like that.
>> Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would say is
>> people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
>> able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
>> think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
>> than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
>> weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
>> could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
>> commitership.
>>
>> > And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
>> > things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
>> > shouldn't be to
>> > hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
>> > interest in
>> > the project for a while we should encourage that.
>> >
>> It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
>> substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
>> that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
>> frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
>> documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
>> to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was expected
>> to become a commiter.
>>
>> Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
>> making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> > What do others think?
>> >
>> > ...ant
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Kelvin Goodson
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by kelvin goodson <ke...@gmail.com>.
+1 from me on taking into account diverse activities, but I must declare a
vested interest.
I'm encouraged by this discussion, since I'd like to become a committer, and
have had that niggling feeling that if it's notches on the jira bedpost that
are the primary measure, then it's going to take a while longer than I had
hoped. I have been doing a number of things which are material
contributions which haven't resulted in direct code updates.
Regards, Kelvin.
On 7/3/06, Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
>
> > There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
> > Tuscany for
> > some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be
> > made a
> > committer.
> >
> > An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
> > right
> > now):
> >
> > "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-quality
> > patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
> > demonstrated the
> > ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
> > may be
> > proposed to grant that developer commit access."
> >
> > I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
> > participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
> > votes, and
> > things like that.
> Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would say is
> people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
> able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
> think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
> than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
> weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
> could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
> commitership.
>
> > And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
> > things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
> > shouldn't be to
> > hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
> > interest in
> > the project for a while we should encourage that.
> >
> It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
> substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
> that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
> frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
> documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
> to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was expected
> to become a commiter.
>
> Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
> making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
>
> Jim
>
> > What do others think?
> >
> > ...ant
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
--
Best Regards
Kelvin Goodson
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com>.
On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:35 AM, ant elder wrote:
> There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to
> Tuscany for
> some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be
> made a
> committer.
>
> An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available
> right
> now):
>
> "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-quality
> patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has
> demonstrated the
> ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it
> may be
> proposed to grant that developer commit access."
>
> I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
> participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats,
> votes, and
> things like that.
Agree with being more than just code. One thing though I would say is
people shouldn't be required to do all things, i.e. some may not be
able to make IRC or just not feel comfortable "speaking up". I do
think, though, it's really important to participate in things other
than code such as the mailing lists. I do however, think we should
weight things towards "material" contributions (not just code, it
could be documentation, the web site, etc.) when deciding on
commitership.
> And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
> things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it
> shouldn't be to
> hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an
> interest in
> the project for a while we should encourage that.
>
It seems to me there are two types of commiters. Those that make
substantial contributions over a shorter period of time and those
that make smaller, incremental contributions over a longer-time
frame. I think we should accommodate both and perhaps outline it in
documentation that could be put on the web site. For newbies coming
to the project, it would be nice to be able to read what was expected
to become a commiter.
Ant, are you willing to take a stab at doing this since you've been
making some good points w.r.t the community aspects of commitership?
Jim
> What do others think?
>
> ...ant
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Rick <cr...@gmail.com>.
A tongue in cheek reply to this I've once heard in OS in general was
when you get tired of applying the persons patches :-)
(sorry if this old or already mentioned)
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> On 7/27/06, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> One of the reasons I started this thread was to try to get a common
>> understanding about what everyone expects is required to become a
>> Tuscany
>> committer. Its hard to publicly say you think someone isn't ready
>> yet, even
>> on the private list, so a common understanding would mean nominations
>> would
>> more likely get unanimous approval. If a nomination is being
>> discussed on
>> the private list how do we know when its ok to call a public vote on
>> the dev
>> list? Are just a few positive responses enough? Are lots of positive
>> responses required? Or just no negative ones? Or does there need to
>> be at
>> least positive responses from all the committers active in that area? I
>> think maybe the latter of those for now while there's still not so
>> many of
>> us, but what do others think?
>
> this is a good question with lots of depth :-)
>
> it's even tougher for a podling and so lacking history and tradition
> to rely on.
>
> you need to work answers to this queston yourselves but i would like
> to say something about nominations...
>
> i do think that there is some merit in discussing whether someone is
> quite ready but i believe that the nomination is personal, not
> collective.
>
> i'm towards the conservative end of the spectrum when it comes to
> nominating new committers. i see nomination as a personal commitment
> which includes supervising the nomimee's first weeks and months at
> apache. this include reading every commit message promptly and being
> the first to dive in with corrections for any mistakes (technical or
> social) they make. i'll also make time to ensure that any personal
> mail they send to me will be answered quickly.
>
> - robert
>
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>
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 7/27/06, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the reasons I started this thread was to try to get a common
> understanding about what everyone expects is required to become a Tuscany
> committer. Its hard to publicly say you think someone isn't ready yet, even
> on the private list, so a common understanding would mean nominations would
> more likely get unanimous approval. If a nomination is being discussed on
> the private list how do we know when its ok to call a public vote on the dev
> list? Are just a few positive responses enough? Are lots of positive
> responses required? Or just no negative ones? Or does there need to be at
> least positive responses from all the committers active in that area? I
> think maybe the latter of those for now while there's still not so many of
> us, but what do others think?
this is a good question with lots of depth :-)
it's even tougher for a podling and so lacking history and tradition
to rely on.
you need to work answers to this queston yourselves but i would like
to say something about nominations...
i do think that there is some merit in discussing whether someone is
quite ready but i believe that the nomination is personal, not
collective.
i'm towards the conservative end of the spectrum when it comes to
nominating new committers. i see nomination as a personal commitment
which includes supervising the nomimee's first weeks and months at
apache. this include reading every commit message promptly and being
the first to dive in with corrections for any mistakes (technical or
social) they make. i'll also make time to ensure that any personal
mail they send to me will be answered quickly.
- robert
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jim Marino <jm...@myromatours.com>.
On Jul 27, 2006, at 9:53 AM, ant elder wrote:
> One of the reasons I started this thread was to try to get a common
> understanding about what everyone expects is required to become a
> Tuscany
> committer. Its hard to publicly say you think someone isn't ready
> yet, even
> on the private list, so a common understanding would mean
> nominations would
> more likely get unanimous approval. If a nomination is being
> discussed on
> the private list how do we know when its ok to call a public vote
> on the dev
> list? Are just a few positive responses enough? Are lots of positive
> responses required? Or just no negative ones? Or does there need to
> be at
> least positive responses from all the committers active in that
> area? I
> think maybe the latter of those for now while there's still not so
> many of
> us, but what do others think?
As Jeremy mentioned previously, it is a question of trust and hence
subjective.
That said, for me, I don't have a "personal point system" (or take
bribes ;-) ) but I do try and follow some guidelines. For example, I
generally group committers into two broad categories, those that earn
it through substantial code contributions and those that have earned
it through smaller but still important contributions (not necessarily
code) over a longer period of time. To take an example, Dan Kulp fit
in the former category, as he contributed a Celtix binding, cleaned
up the existing code base (at the time) to use Java 5 properly,
helped with the build system, and was active on the mailing lists.
Had he not contributed the binding, and instead focused on the Java 5
refactorings, I would have waited longer to see more contributions
along those lines. That said, I don't think that anyone who
contributes a binding "automatically" qualifies for committer status.
Again, because it is about trust, I would want to make sure the code
quality meets our standards, the potential committer aligns with our
goals as a community, and they are committed to ongoing
participation. What we should avoid are people who do "drive-by" code
drops and move on to the next project when they get bored.
I also see a longer-term path to gaining commit rights as well. This
may or may not involve code contributions. In terms of code
contributions, someone could submit patches, refactorings, test
cases, etc. over an extended period of time. In non-code cases, I
think someone could become a committer that never produces a single
line of code, since there are other forms of tangible contribution.
For example, someone could write a ton of documentation or do a lot
of things for the community. For me, though, the timeframe is
generally much longer for non-code contributions and the quality of
the contribution has to be high.
In terms of the specific questions related to when a vote should be
called, my criteria would be:
1. The "sponsoring" committer is willing and able to mentor the new
committer
2. I would say we need to have a significant number of committers in
the area the prospective committer intends to work give +1s. By area,
the level of granularity would be "Java SCA", "C++ SCA", "Java SDO",
DAS, etc. For example, I don't always feel comfortable dealing with
cases in the C++ arena as I am not involved in that part of the
project to be able to make a fair judgement in most cases. Of course,
there may be times when it is patently obvious someone has earned the
right, in which case I would +1 it. I also don't think we need
everyone to respond as people may be on vacation or not available,
but the majority should be "substantial".
3. If there is a negative response, I think we follow the process of
reaching consensus before nominating someone on the public list.
Jim
>
> ...ant
>
> On 7/6/06, Jeremy Boynes < jboynes@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Raymond Feng wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I guess I can understand how to get credits for the "committer"
>> > status.
>> >
>> > As a contributor, I would like to see a well-defined measurable
>> > path which I can see how I make progresses toward the goal. It
>> > leads two questions:
>> >
>> > 1) How many points do we need to gain to become a committer?
>> > 2) How do we measure the contributions? Is it just an impression or
>> > sense from existing committers or do we run some statistics once a
>> > while?
>> >
>>
>> It's about trust so hard-facts don't tell all the story - it really
>> is about what the existing committers think.
>> --
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
On Jul 27, 2006, at 9:53 AM, ant elder wrote:
> One of the reasons I started this thread was to try to get a common
> understanding about what everyone expects is required to become a
> Tuscany
> committer. Its hard to publicly say you think someone isn't ready
> yet, even
> on the private list, so a common understanding would mean
> nominations would
> more likely get unanimous approval.
As Robert and Jim have said, I think nominating someone or supporting
a nomination is a particularly personal thing. It is the kind of
judgment made on a basis of trust formed by interaction over time and
every person will make their decision on their own criteria.
In some ways this makes it hard for people to understand what it
takes - people often look for hard and fast criteria such as a period
of time, number of patches, working for a certain employer, whatever.
Realization that things often are fuzzy is a significant step on the
way.
I think the biggest thing required to become a committer is
interaction with other community members - it is much easier for
someone to make or support a nomination if they have an established
relationship with the nominee.
Ways to do that include:
* active participation in discussions on the list
* frequent interaction with all members, committers or not
* submission of small, easily applied patches (little and often again)
* participation across the codebase (so different people are likely
to pick up the patches)
* helping with the un-cool stuff
and many, many others
--
Jeremy
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
One of the reasons I started this thread was to try to get a common
understanding about what everyone expects is required to become a Tuscany
committer. Its hard to publicly say you think someone isn't ready yet, even
on the private list, so a common understanding would mean nominations would
more likely get unanimous approval. If a nomination is being discussed on
the private list how do we know when its ok to call a public vote on the dev
list? Are just a few positive responses enough? Are lots of positive
responses required? Or just no negative ones? Or does there need to be at
least positive responses from all the committers active in that area? I
think maybe the latter of those for now while there's still not so many of
us, but what do others think?
...ant
On 7/6/06, Jeremy Boynes < jboynes@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Raymond Feng wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I guess I can understand how to get credits for the "committer"
> > status.
> >
> > As a contributor, I would like to see a well-defined measurable
> > path which I can see how I make progresses toward the goal. It
> > leads two questions:
> >
> > 1) How many points do we need to gain to become a committer?
> > 2) How do we measure the contributions? Is it just an impression or
> > sense from existing committers or do we run some statistics once a
> > while?
> >
>
> It's about trust so hard-facts don't tell all the story - it really
> is about what the existing committers think.
> --
> Jeremy
>
>
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>
>
Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Jeremy Boynes <jb...@apache.org>.
On Jul 5, 2006, at 4:42 PM, Raymond Feng wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I guess I can understand how to get credits for the "committer"
> status.
>
> As a contributor, I would like to see a well-defined measurable
> path which I can see how I make progresses toward the goal. It
> leads two questions:
>
> 1) How many points do we need to gain to become a committer?
> 2) How do we measure the contributions? Is it just an impression or
> sense from existing committers or do we run some statistics once a
> while?
>
It's about trust so hard-facts don't tell all the story - it really
is about what the existing committers think.
--
Jeremy
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by Raymond Feng <en...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
I guess I can understand how to get credits for the "committer" status.
As a contributor, I would like to see a well-defined measurable path which I
can see how I make progresses toward the goal. It leads two questions:
1) How many points do we need to gain to become a committer?
2) How do we measure the contributions? Is it just an impression or sense
from existing committers or do we run some statistics once a while?
Thanks,
Raymond
----- Original Message -----
From: "ant elder" <an...@gmail.com>
To: <tu...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
> Just a reminder to those US and Canadian people who've been on holiday
> that
> this thread is here. Be nice to get a few more comments / opinions aired
> from both committers and non-committers on what contributors need to have
> done to in order to be made a committer.
>
> ...ant
>
> On 7/3/06, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to Tuscany
>> for
>> some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be made
>> a
>> committer.
>>
>> An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available right
>> now):
>>
>> "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-quality
>> patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has demonstrated
>> the
>> ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it may be
>> proposed to grant that developer commit access."
>>
>> I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
>> participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats, votes,
>> and
>> things like that. And its not just code, high-quality patches could
>> include
>> things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it shouldn't be
>> to
>> hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an interest
>> in
>> the project for a while we should encourage that.
>>
>> What do others think?
>>
>> ...ant
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Whats required to become a Tuscany Committer?
Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.
Just a reminder to those US and Canadian people who've been on holiday that
this thread is here. Be nice to get a few more comments / opinions aired
from both committers and non-committers on what contributors need to have
done to in order to be made a committer.
...ant
On 7/3/06, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's a number of people who've been contributing patches to Tuscany for
> some time now so we should start thinking about what it takes to be made a
> committer.
>
> An old Incubator webpage had this to say (the page isn't available right
> now):
>
> "If a developer has contributed a significant number of high-quality
> patches, is interested in continuing the contribution, has demonstrated the
> ability to work well with others under the Apache guidelines, it may be
> proposed to grant that developer commit access."
>
> I think it should take a bit more than code to be made a committer -
> participation in mailing list discussions, the weekly IRC chats, votes, and
> things like that. And its not just code, high-quality patches could include
> things for documentation or web site. Right now i think it shouldn't be to
> hard to become a committer, if someone has been demonstrating an interest in
> the project for a while we should encourage that.
>
> What do others think?
>
> ...ant
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>