You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to general@xml.apache.org by "K.Sridhar Babu" <sb...@noida.hclt.com> on 2000/06/08 13:02:59 UTC
XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Hi Friends,
I donot know is it the best place ask this question, sorry for any
inconvenienec with this message.
Using XML the basic advantage we are getting is separation of
content from the presentation(hope I am right)? The problem with present
html is , it mixes the content and presentation, so we are going for
XML. This reduces the risk of again writting our content in another
mark up like wml or vxml or another ML.
My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can separate content
from the presentation? Is it possible to use the same content for smalll
screen mobile devices, desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are
the challenges in doing this?
I am intersted in knowing some or more details regarding all these
issues. Any info or discussion regarding this greately helpful.
Thanks in Advance.
Sridhar Babu
Re: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by "K.C. Jones" <kj...@phoenix-pop.com>.
[My apologies in advance for continuing to cross-post]
> My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can
> separate content from the presentation? Is it possible to
> use the same content for smalll screen mobile devices,
> desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are the
> challenges in doing this?
There are at least two layers to this question, and I'd love
to hear more about it.
The first layer is the engineering question, how can this be
done? Cocoon is the method I'm most familiar with. It
makes it simple to serve up content styled differently based
on the type of client making the request. The underlying
use of XSL, Xalan, etc. by cocoon suggests an open ended set
of comparable solutions. Fine.
But the question is more interesting to me from the UE
perspective.
How does one design a site that effectively addresses UI and
ergonomic requirements of diverse PC, WAP, PDA,
Voice,... clients? When is it OK to base individual pages
based on a common XML source file? When do you diverge?
How can one manage sitemaps in a mixed common/ diverged
site? And would support for multiple client types pose
special globalization requirements for multi-language,
localized sites?
My gut instinct tells me that WAP and PC (& EPOC?) clients
are so different that they probably ought to be served by
different sites in most cases. But WAP oriented sites might
serve accessibility needs, and aural rendering clients,
pretty well. But I'd love to hear from anyone that has
done, or attempted, this kind of thing.
Are there any UE or design reference books or articles that
are relevant to this? Even if they're not specifically XML
oriented?
Cheers,
KC
RE: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by Alistair Hopkins <al...@berthengron.co.uk>.
try cocoon at xml.apache.org
this is very powerful and very free, with a very mature publishing paradigm
At 01:57 PM 6/8/00 +0200, you wrote:
> > I donot know is it the best place ask this question, sorry for any
> > inconvenienec with this message.
>
>I'd say you have a pretty good hit here.
>
> > Using XML the basic advantage we are getting is separation of
> > content from the presentation(hope I am right)? The problem with present
> > html is , it mixes the content and presentation, so we are going for
> > XML. This reduces the risk of again writting our content in another
> > mark up like wml or vxml or another ML.
> > My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can separate content
> > from the presentation? Is it possible to use the same content for smalll
> > screen mobile devices, desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are
> > the challenges in doing this?
> > I am intersted in knowing some or more details regarding all these
> > issues. Any info or discussion regarding this greately helpful.
>
>The most obvious way to do this is use XSL (XSLT) to extract and convert
>your XML to pretty much any other 'presentation' of the original XML data.
>
>Xalan will do this.
>
>You could also take a look at www.eplix.com which will, in time, have
>functionality related to what you ask. The website will be up shortly.
>
>-dennis
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>In case of troubles, e-mail: webmaster@xml.apache.org
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@xml.apache.org
Alistair Hopkins
Re: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by "K.C. Jones" <kj...@phoenix-pop.com>.
[My apologies in advance for continuing to cross-post]
> My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can
> separate content from the presentation? Is it possible to
> use the same content for smalll screen mobile devices,
> desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are the
> challenges in doing this?
There are at least two layers to this question, and I'd love
to hear more about it.
The first layer is the engineering question, how can this be
done? Cocoon is the method I'm most familiar with. It
makes it simple to serve up content styled differently based
on the type of client making the request. The underlying
use of XSL, Xalan, etc. by cocoon suggests an open ended set
of comparable solutions. Fine.
But the question is more interesting to me from the UE
perspective.
How does one design a site that effectively addresses UI and
ergonomic requirements of diverse PC, WAP, PDA,
Voice,... clients? When is it OK to base individual pages
based on a common XML source file? When do you diverge?
How can one manage sitemaps in a mixed common/ diverged
site? And would support for multiple client types pose
special globalization requirements for multi-language,
localized sites?
My gut instinct tells me that WAP and PC (& EPOC?) clients
are so different that they probably ought to be served by
different sites in most cases. But WAP oriented sites might
serve accessibility needs, and aural rendering clients,
pretty well. But I'd love to hear from anyone that has
done, or attempted, this kind of thing.
Are there any UE or design reference books or articles that
are relevant to this? Even if they're not specifically XML
oriented?
Cheers,
KC
Re: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
"K.Sridhar Babu" wrote:
>
> For example one medium to big sized e-commerce site is there, and
> We
> want to publish our content in XML. Is it not that the complexity of XSL is
> very high in this case for handling different types of clients? What about
> the
> performance? And also the maximum content size also varies with different
> types of browsers(micro).Considering the pros and cons what is the best
> possible solution. Writting the content in XML or in all markups?
The larger the site is and the more content, styles and clients you
have, the more you will profit from using XML and especially cocoon.
Performance is a critical factor with cocoon1.x, so you should test that
beforehand or wait for cocoon2. XML and co-standards were developed
exactly for what you want to do.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
Re: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by "K.Sridhar Babu" <sb...@noida.hclt.com>.
Ulrich Mayring wrote:
> "K.Sridhar Babu" wrote:
> >
> > Using XML the basic advantage we are getting is separation of
> > content from the presentation(hope I am right)? The problem with present
> > html is , it mixes the content and presentation, so we are going for
> > XML. This reduces the risk of again writting our content in another
> > mark up like wml or vxml or another ML.
>
> This is one advantage of XML, but not the only one. The most important
> thing will IMHO be the fact the XML and its co-standards are, well,
> standards. They will emerge as the communication standard between apps
> and hosts and they will be used as a data format for config files and
> other stuff.
>
> > My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can separate content
> > from the presentation? Is it possible to use the same content for smalll
> > screen mobile devices, desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are
> > the challenges in doing this?
>
> There are many challenges, but continually changing the XML is not one
> of them. Ideally the XML remains the same, only the stylesheets (or
> whatever presentation layer you use) change. I'm not sure why you doubt
> that that works? XML was designed to do exactly that.
For example one medium to big sized e-commerce site is there, and We
want to publish our content in XML. Is it not that the complexity of XSL is
very high in this case for handling different types of clients? What about the
performance? And also the maximum content size also varies with different
types of browsers(micro).Considering the pros and cons what is the best
possible solution. Writting the content in XML or in all markups?
Regards
Sridhar Babu
Re: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
"K.Sridhar Babu" wrote:
>
> Using XML the basic advantage we are getting is separation of
> content from the presentation(hope I am right)? The problem with present
> html is , it mixes the content and presentation, so we are going for
> XML. This reduces the risk of again writting our content in another
> mark up like wml or vxml or another ML.
This is one advantage of XML, but not the only one. The most important
thing will IMHO be the fact the XML and its co-standards are, well,
standards. They will emerge as the communication standard between apps
and hosts and they will be used as a data format for config files and
other stuff.
> My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can separate content
> from the presentation? Is it possible to use the same content for smalll
> screen mobile devices, desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are
> the challenges in doing this?
There are many challenges, but continually changing the XML is not one
of them. Ideally the XML remains the same, only the stylesheets (or
whatever presentation layer you use) change. I'm not sure why you doubt
that that works? XML was designed to do exactly that.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
RE: XML-HTML-XHTML-WML-VXML.........**ML
Posted by Dennis Thrysoe - netnord <dt...@netnord.dk>.
> I donot know is it the best place ask this question, sorry for any
> inconvenienec with this message.
I'd say you have a pretty good hit here.
> Using XML the basic advantage we are getting is separation of
> content from the presentation(hope I am right)? The problem with present
> html is , it mixes the content and presentation, so we are going for
> XML. This reduces the risk of again writting our content in another
> mark up like wml or vxml or another ML.
> My doubt is how we can in that generic manner can separate content
> from the presentation? Is it possible to use the same content for smalll
> screen mobile devices, desktop browsers and voice browsers? What are
> the challenges in doing this?
> I am intersted in knowing some or more details regarding all these
> issues. Any info or discussion regarding this greately helpful.
The most obvious way to do this is use XSL (XSLT) to extract and convert
your XML to pretty much any other 'presentation' of the original XML data.
Xalan will do this.
You could also take a look at www.eplix.com which will, in time, have
functionality related to what you ask. The website will be up shortly.
-dennis