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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> on 2016/06/23 00:16:21 UTC
Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Hi,
At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up with was to have some worked examples.
So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome. Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> One question - do the other licenses (MIT/BSD) have to be copied as separate files
That is the preferred way as otherwise the LICENSE file can become too long if many licenses are involved.
> or listing their content in LICENSE file is acceptable?
That is also acceptable. If you have only one bundled MIT or BSD license (which are reasonable short) then that’s probably easier.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Velmurugan Periasamy <ve...@apache.org>.
Justin - this is useful. Thank you.
One question - do the other licenses (MIT/BSD) have to be copied as separate files or listing their content in LICENSE file is acceptable?
On Jun 22, 2016, at 8:16 PM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome. Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> I wondered why you did not mention file headers further (beyond for
> inspecting licenses), as that is part of ASF policy (while not a legal
> requirement for using the Apache license)
Very good question, I was just focused on the license and notice and didn’t look at headers and it may be that the “release” would not pass a vote.
> The example is very simple, but actually there is no actual content
> that would be (c) ASF :-) -- except the README file and index.html, I
> think both (or at least index.html) should have ASF headers.
The README doesn’t need one [1] (but it wouldn't hurt if it did), index.html (despite [2]) probably does.
Thanks,
Justin
1. http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#faq-exceptions
2. http://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#faq-webpages
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
This is a great tutorial, thanks, Justin! Also good video editing.
I wondered why you did not mention file headers further (beyond for
inspecting licenses), as that is part of ASF policy (while not a legal
requirement for using the Apache license)
The example is very simple, but actually there is no actual content
that would be (c) ASF :-) -- except the README file and index.html, I
think both (or at least index.html) should have ASF headers.
On 23 June 2016 at 01:16, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome. Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
--
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Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
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Fwd: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
This info might be useful to us.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
Date: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:16 AM
Subject: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Hi,
At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues
around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up
with was to have some worked examples.
So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project
using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step
needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short
(4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome.
Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
Thanks,
Justin
1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
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Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
http://zest.apache.org - New Energy for Java
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Josh Elser <el...@apache.org>.
+1 This is awesome, Justin. Thanks for making the time to put this together.
Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I\u2019ve also made a short (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome. Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Perhaps showing a negative example of a resource you then realize you
> can't add, e.g. you find a picture on flickr.com that you want to
> bundle, but it's classified as CC Non-Commercial; so you find one that
> you CAN include instead, but need to provide attribution for it.
Nice idea thanks.
> Also propagation of NOTICE, e.g. you want to add
I already have that on my list to do.
> Your tutorial would be great to show at ApacheCon at the Incubator session, btw.
I plan to submit a longer version of it as a talk at the next ApacheCon and hopefully it will be selected.
It is however a little hard to turn this sometimes dry subject into something that people will come along and listen to.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Stian Soiland-Reyes <st...@apache.org>.
Perhaps showing a negative example of a resource you then realize you
can't add, e.g. you find a picture on flickr.com that you want to
bundle, but it's classified as CC Non-Commercial; so you find one that
you CAN include instead, but need to provide attribution for it.
Also propagation of NOTICE, e.g. you want to add
https://github.com/apache/incubator-taverna-common-activities/blob/master/taverna-interaction-activity/src/main/resources/interaction.css
but then you will need to propagate (parts of)
https://github.com/apache/incubator-taverna-common-activities/blob/master/NOTICE
Your tutorial would be great to show at ApacheCon at the Incubator session, btw.
On 23 June 2016 at 07:49, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>> Great idea, Justin!
>
> Thanks! I’m considering making several examples, perhaps a few other people can help me out?
>
>> What about including an example in the NOTICE about the inclusion of a
>> non-permissive 3rd party license (e.g., LGPL)?
>
> You can’t have a dependancy (other than optional) on or include non permissive licenses like LGPL. Even if it’s an optional dependancy nothing would go in NOTICE as it’s not bundled.
>
> I could make an example with Category B licenses (weak copy left) as I’ve not covered that yet.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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--
Stian Soiland-Reyes
Apache Taverna (incubating), Apache Commons
http://orcid.org/0000-0001-9842-9718
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
HI,
> This gets tricky because something in category B won't be in the
> source release, and thus should not be in the standard LICENSE/NOTICE.
Correct and that why it's a good example to make - may be a few other examples first to cover other issues (propagation of NOTICE files for instance and what exactly is a required notice), see how I go.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:49 PM, Justin Mclean
<ju...@classsoftware.com> wrote:
Justin, thank you so much for pushing forward with this!
> I could make an example with Category B licenses (weak copy left)
> as I’ve not covered that yet.
This gets tricky because something in category B won't be in the
source release, and thus should not be in the standard LICENSE/NOTICE.
We'd need to pick a strategy for adding it later, such as maintaining
a separate LICENSE.binary/NOTICE.binary files or a build tool which
assembles a new LICENSE/NOTICE as part of the compilation process.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
>
> You can’t have a dependancy (other than optional) on or include non
> permissive licenses like LGPL. Even if it’s an optional dependancy nothing
> would go in NOTICE as it’s not bundled.
>
Right, non-bundled licenses does not need to be noticed.
I could make an example with Category B licenses (weak copy left) as I’ve
> not covered that yet.
>
Indeed, a example with Category B may be useful.
Thanks!
--
Sergio Fernández
Partner Technology Manager
Redlink GmbH
m: +43 6602747925
e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
w: http://redlink.co
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Great idea, Justin!
Thanks! I’m considering making several examples, perhaps a few other people can help me out?
> What about including an example in the NOTICE about the inclusion of a
> non-permissive 3rd party license (e.g., LGPL)?
You can’t have a dependancy (other than optional) on or include non permissive licenses like LGPL. Even if it’s an optional dependancy nothing would go in NOTICE as it’s not bundled.
I could make an example with Category B licenses (weak copy left) as I’ve not covered that yet.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Sergio Fernández <wi...@apache.org>.
Great idea, Justin!
What about including an example in the NOTICE about the inclusion of a
non-permissive 3rd party license (e.g., LGPL)?
I can make a PR in case you find it relevant.
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 2:16 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the
> issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come
> up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project
> using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step
> needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short
> (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome.
> Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Sergio Fernández
Partner Technology Manager
Redlink GmbH
m: +43 6602747925
e: sergio.fernandez@redlink.co
w: http://redlink.co
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by larry mccay <lm...@apache.org>.
I can buy that, Justin.
Starting to better communicate that knowledge is very much appreciated!
On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 10:34 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> > Someday a tool to codify this into a wizard like thing would be awesome.
> :)
>
> IMO (and I know others have different opinions) I don’t think that
> actually possible other than in simple cases. if you know the policy it’s
> reasonably obvious what needs to be done and a tool would not actually be
> helpful.
>
> Also there’s often more than one way to comply with both 3rd party license
> legal obligations and ASF policy. Just look at for instance the variation
> in top level projects LICENSE and NOTICE files.
>
> Sometimes it’s not known what may be required without some discussion.
> Some of this knowledge is not clearly documented or rather clearly
> communicatted.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
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>
>
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>.
Hi,
> Someday a tool to codify this into a wizard like thing would be awesome. :)
IMO (and I know others have different opinions) I don’t think that actually possible other than in simple cases. if you know the policy it’s reasonably obvious what needs to be done and a tool would not actually be helpful.
Also there’s often more than one way to comply with both 3rd party license legal obligations and ASF policy. Just look at for instance the variation in top level projects LICENSE and NOTICE files.
Sometimes it’s not known what may be required without some discussion. Some of this knowledge is not clearly documented or rather clearly communicatted.
Thanks,
Justin
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Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by larry mccay <lm...@apache.org>.
Such a pain point while finding your way and even having to add something
later.
Thanks for taking the time for this!
Someday a tool to codify this into a wizard like thing would be awesome. :)
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 11:31 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Justin,
>
> Thank you for putting this up. This is super helpful.
>
> - Henry
>
> On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the
> > issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we
> come
> > up with was to have some worked examples.
> >
> > So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project
> > using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step
> > needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a
> short
> > (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
> >
> > Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome.
> > Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> > 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
Justin,
Thank you for putting this up. This is super helpful.
- Henry
On Thu, Jun 23, 2016 at 7:16 AM, Justin Mclean <ju...@classsoftware.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the
> issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come
> up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project
> using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step
> needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I’ve also made a short
> (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome.
> Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Kathy Saunders <os...@gmail.com>.
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome.
> Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
>
Hi Justin,
I think this is very helpful and I'd love to see more examples. I'm
involved in a project in incubation now, and I am grateful for any examples
on how to do this properly.
Kathy
Re: Worked LICENSE and NOTICE example
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Justin,
great, really helpful !
Regards
JB
On 06/23/2016 02:16 AM, Justin Mclean wrote:
> Hi,
>
> At the last ApacheCon I was discussing with Marvin about some of the issues around assembling license and notice files. One of the ideas we come up with was to have some worked examples.
>
> So here is a small example I put together of a fictional Apache project using Bootstrap. Code is on github [1] and the checkins show each step needed to bring LICENSE and NOTICE into complicance. I\u2019ve also made a short (4 minutes) screen cast of the process here [2].
>
> Feedback, spelling errors, legal corrections/queries etc etc all welcome. Do people think this is useful and would they like to see more examples?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> 1. https://github.com/justinmclean/ApacheWombat
> 2. https://vimeo.com/171210141
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofr�
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
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