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Posted to docs@cocoon.apache.org by Apache Wiki <wi...@apache.org> on 2005/10/28 09:13:15 UTC
[Cocoon Wiki] Update of "ReleaseTests218" by BertrandDelacretaz
Dear Wiki user,
You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Cocoon Wiki" for change notification.
The following page has been changed by BertrandDelacretaz:
http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ReleaseTests218
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||JVM||Jetty Linux||Jetty Windows||Jetty MacOS||Tomcat 5.5.12 Linux||Tomcat 5.5.12 Windows||Tomcat 4.1 Linux||Tomcat 4.1 Windows||
||1.3|| || || || || || || ||
||1.4.2_08|| ||1666 || || || || || ||
+ ||1.4.2-38|| || ||rev 329128: htmlunit-tests ok[[BR]]junit-tests: 1668,1669|| || || || ||
||1.5.0_05|| || || || || || || ||
+ ''(aaaaaargh this table editing stuff is AWFUL ;-)''
+
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2005, at 19:05, Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> On 28 Oct 2005, at 16:26, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>>
>>>> 5. How will the system perform? How well does it scale? Will it
>>>> handle the expected load?
...
>
> And insofar, no takers on static writing of HTMLs a-la MovableType...
Forrest *may* be able to do this. However, I've not got the time right
now to explore the reality of this. The meme has been planted, one day I
(or someone) will be able to look into this.
Ross
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 19:05, Steven Noels wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2005, at 16:26, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>>> 5. How will the system perform? How well does it scale? Will it
>>> handle the expected load?
>>>
>> Given that I run a fairly big site on Cocoon, I'm fairly scared
>> about possible links from sites such as Slashdot...
>
> Cough: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/22/1342203 :)
>
> Sorry, it's just me getting nervous when Daisy is being compared to
> a Python CGI.
I'm not saying it's impossible... The current VNUNET sites pump out
more than 10 mbps constant now, and we spike to more than 30mbps
kinda twice a week...
BUT, they're not running on the ASF infrastructure (therefore, when
s**t hits the fan, the infra@apache people are the first to run, not
us), and they're not shared by a number of other projects (therefore
when s**t hits the fan, we hurt the wider Apache community).
Each project we individually build on Cocoon has the same technical
merits inherited from the platform, but has a quite different
deployment scenario.
My concerns are simply along the lines of "let's play this game
nicely", not "it's impossible"...
And insofar, no takers on static writing of HTMLs a-la MovableType...
Pier
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 16:26, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> 5. How will the system perform? How well does it scale? Will it
>> handle the expected load?
>
> Given that I run a fairly big site on Cocoon, I'm fairly scared about
> possible links from sites such as Slashdot...
Cough: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/22/1342203 :)
Sorry, it's just me getting nervous when Daisy is being compared to a
Python CGI.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 16:03, Upayavira wrote:
> Mark Lundquist wrote:
>> On Oct 28, 2005, at 7:26 AM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>>
>>> And maybe a shared Solaris 10 box is not the place where I would
>>> like
>>> to see massive hits coming through...
>>
>> What do the stats show about the current Wiki, i.e. how high a bar
>> would
>> the Daisy server have to clear (for today + future), and could we run
>> enough of a load test on Daisy to get an idea? JMeter?
>
> Extremely high. I wouldn't go near it myself.
>
> It took about a month after upgrading to the latest MoinMoin to get it
> sufficiently stable to not bring down the whole www.apache.org server.
> We had to block crawlers for some time, and eventually fixed it by
> placing a new version of mod_cache in front of the Python based
> MoinMoin
> wiki for all anonymous requests.
>
> I'm afraid I don't have any figures, but can say that Cocoon's wiki is
> amongst the top three Apache wikis in terms of size.
Exactly my thoughts... The only way in which I could see Daisy fit to
handle that load, if it were to publish the pages entered as static
files, then served off by Apache itself, without involving Cocoon
(the same technique used by MovableType, for example).
Without that in place, I'd be -1 on hosting anything live of Cocoon
on the ASF infrastructure, even with massive caching, because of the
maintenance task we'd put on the infrastructure team, and the
possible impact this would have on projects other than Cocoon itself
(it's a shared infrastructure, we have to play it nice).
Pier
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Mark Lundquist wrote:
>
> On Oct 28, 2005, at 7:26 AM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>> And maybe a shared Solaris 10 box is not the place where I would like
>> to see massive hits coming through...
>
>
> What do the stats show about the current Wiki, i.e. how high a bar would
> the Daisy server have to clear (for today + future), and could we run
> enough of a load test on Daisy to get an idea? JMeter?
Extremely high. I wouldn't go near it myself.
It took about a month after upgrading to the latest MoinMoin to get it
sufficiently stable to not bring down the whole www.apache.org server.
We had to block crawlers for some time, and eventually fixed it by
placing a new version of mod_cache in front of the Python based MoinMoin
wiki for all anonymous requests.
I'm afraid I don't have any figures, but can say that Cocoon's wiki is
amongst the top three Apache wikis in terms of size.
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Mark Lundquist <ml...@wrinkledog.com>.
On Oct 28, 2005, at 7:26 AM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> And maybe a shared Solaris 10 box is not the place where I would like
> to see massive hits coming through...
What do the stats show about the current Wiki, i.e. how high a bar
would the Daisy server have to clear (for today + future), and could we
run enough of a load test on Daisy to get an idea? JMeter?
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 15:13, Ralph Goers wrote:
> 5. How will the system perform? How well does it scale? Will it
> handle the expected load?
Given that I run a fairly big site on Cocoon, I'm fairly scared about
possible links from sites such as Slashdot...
If we rely on the ASF-Wiki, then it's their problem to make sure it
works, but if we're using daisy, well, it's up to us. And maybe a
shared Solaris 10 box is not the place where I would like to see
massive hits coming through...
Pier
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
> Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as Wiki
> too? Any reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to move
> over docs from a wiki zone into our official documentation.
Well, I'm +1 but this raises a significant issue. There was a request
by geronimo on the infra list a couple of weeks ago to allow them to use
different wiki software. It wasn't what I would call a "concrete"
proposal in that I don't recall seeing them post the specifics of where
it would run and who would maintain it. infra pushed back as they don't
want too many things to support.
Now the subject of Cocoon using Daisy has already come up there,
although there was only a single email and no follow-up. At some point
we have to approach infra regarding our use of Daisy for documentation
as we are doing something that really isn't approved - it was only
supposed to be an experiment when it started.
So if we want to use Daisy for both our documentation and the wiki we
need to answer several questions:
1. Where is it going to run?
2. Who will administer it?
3. How is the data backed up?
4. Is the data versioned such that every change can be tracked back to
the individual who did it?
5. How will the system perform? How well does it scale? Will it handle
the expected load?
Those are just the questions I thought of off the top of my head.
Ralph
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Upayavira <uv...@odoko.co.uk>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
>> Apache Wiki wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Wiki user,
>>>
>>> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Cocoon Wiki"
>>> for change notification.
>>>
>>> The following page has been changed by BertrandDelacretaz:
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ReleaseTests218
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ||JVM||Jetty Linux||Jetty Windows||Jetty MacOS||Tomcat 5.5.12
>>> Linux||Tomcat 5.5.12 Windows||Tomcat 4.1 Linux||Tomcat 4.1 Windows||
>>> ||1.3|| || || ||
>>> || ||
>>> || ||
>>> ||1.4.2_08|| ||1666 || ||
>>> || || || ||
>>> + ||1.4.2-38|| || ||rev 329128: htmlunit-tests
>>> ok[[BR]]junit-tests: 1668,1669||
>>> || || || ||
>>> ||1.5.0_05|| || || ||
>>> || || || ||
>>> + ''(aaaaaargh this table editing stuff is AWFUL ;-)''
>>> +
>>
>>
>>
>> Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as Wiki
>> too? Any reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to move
>> over docs from a wiki zone into our official documentation.
>>
>
> +1
>
> We can set up a new collction that has open access to all and restrict
> access to registered users for the docs themselves.
>
> Any pages that we want to use from the Wiki in the Docs can then just be
> moved across to the relevant docs collection.
I would say we should wait until we have had discussions with Infra
(which I intend to initiate today). It is one thing to use Daisy for
content management (something Apache doesn't otherwise help us with),
and another to start running our own Wiki on our Zone.
Questions for me would be: how do we decide what content on the Daisy
wiki is public? When it is public, can our wiki handle the load that can
occur? (Note, it took about a month of an httpd committer's time to get
MoinMoin able to handle the load by putting mod_cache in front.
Otherwise it just died horribly). Note also that Cocoon's current wiki
is one of the ASF's larger wikis (within the top three, I'd say without
looking).
So, I'm open to it, but let's go slowly :-)
Regards, Upayavira
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 13:08, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> I can give it a shot, but am not in sudoers!
Not not anymore. Thanks!
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 12:02, Steven Noels wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2005, at 11:03, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> BUT: we should make sure the daisy stuff is backed up,
>
> For starters, it would be nice if someone Solaris-knowledgeable
> figures out why the crontab entry for the daisy user isn't doing
> what it should.
I can give it a shot, but am not in sudoers!
Pier
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 12:02, Steven Noels wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2005, at 11:03, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
>
>> BUT: we should make sure the daisy stuff is backed up,
>
> For starters, it would be nice if someone Solaris-knowledgeable
> figures out why the crontab entry for the daisy user isn't doing
> what it should.
It's now correct. The entry in the /etc/shadow file indicated that
"daisy" was a locked user (password *LK*)... I now unlocked it and
crons work like a charm...
Pier (an old solaris fart)
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On 28 Oct 2005, at 11:03, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> BUT: we should make sure the daisy stuff is backed up,
For starters, it would be nice if someone Solaris-knowledgeable figures
out why the crontab entry for the daisy user isn't doing what it
should.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought Open Source Java & XML
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Le 28 oct. 05, à 10:58, Ross Gardler a écrit :
> Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>> ...Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as
>> Wiki too? Any reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to
>> move over docs from a wiki zone into our official documentation.
>
> +1
>
> We can set up a new collction that has open access to all and restrict
> access to registered users for the docs themselves.
>
> Any pages that we want to use from the Wiki in the Docs can then just
> be moved across to the relevant docs collection...
sounds great, I'm basically +1
BUT: we should make sure the daisy stuff is backed up, and that infra
is ok with us having important stuff on the zone...
-Bertrand
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
> Apache Wiki wrote:
>
>> Dear Wiki user,
>>
>> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Cocoon Wiki"
>> for change notification.
>>
>> The following page has been changed by BertrandDelacretaz:
>> http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ReleaseTests218
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ||JVM||Jetty Linux||Jetty Windows||Jetty MacOS||Tomcat 5.5.12
>> Linux||Tomcat 5.5.12 Windows||Tomcat 4.1 Linux||Tomcat 4.1 Windows||
>> ||1.3|| || || ||
>> || ||
>> || ||
>> ||1.4.2_08|| ||1666 || ||
>> || || || ||
>> + ||1.4.2-38|| || ||rev 329128: htmlunit-tests
>> ok[[BR]]junit-tests: 1668,1669||
>> || || || ||
>> ||1.5.0_05|| || || ||
>> || || || ||
>> + ''(aaaaaargh this table editing stuff is AWFUL ;-)''
>> +
>
>
> Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as Wiki
> too? Any reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to move
> over docs from a wiki zone into our official documentation.
>
+1
We can set up a new collction that has open access to all and restrict
access to registered users for the docs themselves.
Any pages that we want to use from the Wiki in the Docs can then just be
moved across to the relevant docs collection.
Ross
Re: Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Ralph Goers <Ra...@dslextreme.com>.
Reinhard Poetz wrote:
>
> Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as Wiki
> too? Any reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to move
> over docs from a wiki zone into our official documentation.
Well, here is another option. Geronimo was proposing to use confluence
for its wiki. Now I haven't looked at it at all, but if it has better
features for what we are trying to do it might be better just to support
their request. I believe the reason they wanted to use it is that it
apparently integrates with Jira.
Ralph
Using Daisy as Wiki
Posted by Reinhard Poetz <re...@apache.org>.
Apache Wiki wrote:
> Dear Wiki user,
>
> You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Cocoon Wiki" for change notification.
>
> The following page has been changed by BertrandDelacretaz:
> http://wiki.apache.org/cocoon/ReleaseTests218
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ||JVM||Jetty Linux||Jetty Windows||Jetty MacOS||Tomcat 5.5.12 Linux||Tomcat 5.5.12 Windows||Tomcat 4.1 Linux||Tomcat 4.1 Windows||
> ||1.3|| || || || || || || ||
> ||1.4.2_08|| ||1666 || || || || || ||
> + ||1.4.2-38|| || ||rev 329128: htmlunit-tests ok[[BR]]junit-tests: 1668,1669|| || || || ||
> ||1.5.0_05|| || || || || || || ||
>
> + ''(aaaaaargh this table editing stuff is AWFUL ;-)''
> +
>
Bertrand, your comment makes me think why we don't use Daisy as Wiki too? Any
reasons for this? It would also make it much simpler to move over docs from a
wiki zone into our official documentation.
--
Reinhard Pötz Independent Consultant, Trainer & (IT)-Coach
{Software Engineering, Open Source, Web Applications, Apache Cocoon}
web(log): http://www.poetz.cc
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