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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com> on 2004/04/21 19:17:20 UTC
[VOTE] Graduate Pluto
The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
Apache Portals project.
My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
stated here:
http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
--
David Sean Taylor
taylor@apache.org
Apache Portals
http://portals.apache.org
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Please update http://incubator.apache.org/projects/pluto.html to reflect the
changes and current status.
Looks as if all is in order. A Software Grant for org.apache.pluto.* has
been recorded, and Pluto is being incorporated into the Apache Portals
project.
+1 to release Pluto to the Portals PMC.
--- Noel
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Julie MacNaught <jm...@apache.org>.
+1 from me.
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into
> the Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
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>
--
Julie MacNaught
IBM Research
jmacna@apache.org
jmacna@us.ibm.com
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Michael Blum <bl...@apache.org>.
+1 from me
Michael
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Geir Magnusson Jr <ge...@4quarters.com>.
+1
On Apr 21, 2004, at 1:17 PM, David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
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>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-247-1713(m)
geir@4quarters.com
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> could you please regenerate the website?
Could and did.
--- Noel
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com>.
On May 15, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> In that case, I believe that we have all +1 and no outstanding -1. If
> there
> are no further issues raised this weekend, David please update the
> Pluto
> STATUS to show that the Incubator PMC has released Pluto to the Portals
> project.
>
> The voting thread is at
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?
> listName=general@incuba
> tor.apache.org&by=thread&from=751960.
>
Done.
Noel, could you please regenerate the website?
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
In that case, I believe that we have all +1 and no outstanding -1. If there
are no further issues raised this weekend, David please update the Pluto
STATUS to show that the Incubator PMC has released Pluto to the Portals
project.
The voting thread is at
http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=general@incuba
tor.apache.org&by=thread&from=751960.
--- Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: Berin Lautenbach [mailto:berin@wingsofhermes.org]
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 2:46
To: general@incubator.apache.org
Cc: Portals PMC
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
David,
Many thanks indeed.
I'm now a big +1 :>.
Cheers,
Berin
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
David,
Many thanks indeed.
I'm now a big +1 :>.
Cheers,
Berin
David Sean Taylor wrote:
>
> On Apr 23, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
>
>> Guys,
>>
>> I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated
>> addressing some of the original concerns.
>>
>> Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted
>> the incubator to specifically consider community.
>>
>> Also, have a look at some of the e-mail in :
>>
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?
>> listId=&listName=general%40incubator.apache.org&searchText=pluto&defaul
>> tField=subject&Search=Search
>>
>> Guys - I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed,
>> and an updated status file will cover all of them. At which point
>> I'll gladly change this to a +1.
>>
>> I also suspect that others in the PMC have more visibility than I,
>> but we are being quite hard on other projects in incubation, and I
>> believe we need to be consistent.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Berin
>>
>> [1] http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
>> listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgId=792503
>>
>>
> Hi Berin,
>
> Let me try to address the issues from the above link below:
>
>>> Please note that my support is based on the following assumptions:
>>>
>>> 1. all spec/seed code will be released (this, in my opinion,
>>> must be
>>> done prior to consideration) If thats not till March, then the project
>>> can't reasonably be considered until March. (We don't take on other
>>> closed source projects)
>
>
> All code is in Apache CVS. Absolutely nothing is closed. All in the
> open. Yup.
>
>>> 2. David Taylor and the other committee members will soon be
>>> released from the Non-Disclosure agreements they are currently under so
>>> that they can participate freely. (You can't have a community based
>>> on a
>>> closed spec where the members can't speak freely).
>
>
> We can all speak freely and we won't get in that situation again.
> With the public release of the Portlet Specification last year, there
> is nothing now that isn't already public.
>
>>> 3. I'm assuming that others including from the Jetspeed and
>>> Cocoon-portal will go add themselves as committers...
>>> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal - I will
>>> send
>>> an invitation out.
>
>
> All Jetspeed and Cocoon committers had the opportunity to join Pluto.
> Many Jetspeed committers did decide to join the Pluto team.
>
>>> 4. The project will keep compatibilty with the spec but we'll be
>>> free to expand beyond it in much the same way Tomcat and other projects
>>> do. Xerces, for instance, doesn't solely implement just SAX and JAXP
>>> with a parser under it. From a performance standpoint, SAX interfaces
>>> would be nice, having them in the RI (extending the spec) would serve
>>> this purpose.
>
>
> The project has already started to expand quite healthily.
> For example, David DeWolf, a Pluto committer, has started a Kuiper branch.
> Its a refactored experimental implementation of the portal based on COP
>
>>> 5. Future revisions of the Spec will happen in the open.
>>>
>
> I give my word as an Apache committer that I will work hard, and
> already have believe me, towards making this situation (of a closed
> spec) never happen again.
>
>>> Please note, I REALLY want to see this at Apache, so this is not a
>>> fillibuster intended to kill the effort to be followed by a series of
>>> Catch-22 arguments (here, but not there, which means it can't be here).
>>> But I don't feel the participants should be given a free pass into
>>> Apache to create non community-based non-open projects just to get the
>>> feather. If this is going to be an Apache project, it does need to
>>> be an
>>> Apache project. If there is motivation on everyone's part, we CAN
>>> obviously fix these issues by addressing them head-on in an honest and
>>> straightforward manner.
>>>
>>> I DO want to particpate, and I DO want to see this happen, but lets do
>>> the community thing. We can certainly resolve these issues if all
>>> parties are motivated.
>>>
>>> -AndrewCOliver
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com>.
On Apr 23, 2004, at 5:49 PM, Berin Lautenbach wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated addressing
> some of the original concerns.
>
> Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted the
> incubator to specifically consider community.
>
> Also, have a look at some of the e-mail in :
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?
> listId=&listName=general%40incubator.apache.org&searchText=pluto&defaul
> tField=subject&Search=Search
>
> Guys - I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed, and
> an updated status file will cover all of them. At which point I'll
> gladly change this to a +1.
>
> I also suspect that others in the PMC have more visibility than I, but
> we are being quite hard on other projects in incubation, and I believe
> we need to be consistent.
>
> Cheers,
> Berin
>
> [1]
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?
> listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgId=792503
>
>
Hi Berin,
Let me try to address the issues from the above link below:
>> Please note that my support is based on the following assumptions:
>>
>> 1. all spec/seed code will be released (this, in my opinion, must
>> be
>> done prior to consideration) If thats not till March, then the project
>> can't reasonably be considered until March. (We don't take on other
>> closed source projects)
All code is in Apache CVS. Absolutely nothing is closed. All in the
open. Yup.
>> 2. David Taylor and the other committee members will soon be
>> released from the Non-Disclosure agreements they are currently under
>> so
>> that they can participate freely. (You can't have a community based
>> on a
>> closed spec where the members can't speak freely).
We can all speak freely and we won't get in that situation again.
With the public release of the Portlet Specification last year, there
is nothing now that isn't already public.
>> 3. I'm assuming that others including from the Jetspeed and
>> Cocoon-portal will go add themselves as committers...
>> http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?PlutoProposal - I will
>> send
>> an invitation out.
All Jetspeed and Cocoon committers had the opportunity to join Pluto.
Many Jetspeed committers did decide to join the Pluto team.
>> 4. The project will keep compatibilty with the spec but we'll be
>> free to expand beyond it in much the same way Tomcat and other
>> projects
>> do. Xerces, for instance, doesn't solely implement just SAX and JAXP
>> with a parser under it. From a performance standpoint, SAX interfaces
>> would be nice, having them in the RI (extending the spec) would serve
>> this purpose.
The project has already started to expand quite healthily.
For example, David DeWolf, a Pluto committer, has started a Kuiper
branch.
Its a refactored experimental implementation of the portal based on COP
>> 5. Future revisions of the Spec will happen in the open.
>>
I give my word as an Apache committer that I will work hard, and
already have believe me, towards making this situation (of a closed
spec) never happen again.
>> Please note, I REALLY want to see this at Apache, so this is not a
>> fillibuster intended to kill the effort to be followed by a series of
>> Catch-22 arguments (here, but not there, which means it can't be
>> here).
>> But I don't feel the participants should be given a free pass into
>> Apache to create non community-based non-open projects just to get the
>> feather. If this is going to be an Apache project, it does need to be
>> an
>> Apache project. If there is motivation on everyone's part, we CAN
>> obviously fix these issues by addressing them head-on in an honest and
>> straightforward manner.
>>
>> I DO want to particpate, and I DO want to see this happen, but lets do
>> the community thing. We can certainly resolve these issues if all
>> parties are motivated.
>>
>> -AndrewCOliver
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Berin,
> I suspect you are absolutely correct, and everything has been mooted or
> satisfactorily resolved. Unfortunately, I have not been even remotely
> involved with Pluto, so I have to rely on STATUS to make my judgement.
:-) Hence the need for the updated STATUS file. I think perhaps a bad
precedent was saying +1 and asking for the file to be updated, rather than
being a hardass and explicitly saying +1 *after* the STATUS file is updated.
> As to Portals being comfortable on community - I'm of the opinion that
> it is part of the Incubator responsibility to double check.
Yup. In my own case, I've chatted a lot with Santiago about it. I believe
that he is off-line for a bit, and cannot contribute his thoughts. But, as
you say, you'd really like to see a comment in the STATUS file addressing
it.
--- Noel
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> As far as I know, those issues are mooted. More to the point, perhaps,
> Pluto has been adopted and integrated into the new Portals project, which is
> asking for its release, and they don't appear to have any Community
> concerns. Do we have any questions about the TCK availability?
I suspect you are absolutely correct, and everything has been mooted or
satisfactorily resolved. Unfortunately, I have not been even remotely
involved with Pluto, so I have to rely on STATUS to make my judgement.
As to Portals being comfortable on community - I'm of the opinion that
it is part of the Incubator responsibility to double check. We should
be making our own judgement, not using another TLP to make a de-facto
decision for us.
After all - it's the Incubator that is supposed to be tracking the
history of incubation and ensuring concerns originally raised are
addressed, not Portals. If it all went pear shaped, I would expect the
board to come to Incubator PMC - not Portals - to ask the serious
questions. I would also expect Portals to be asking us questions!
At the end of the day, I'm just reluctant support something where I am
not sure of the answers. Give me a status file that addresses the
concerns raised at the start of incubation, and I'll change to +1 with
fervor and alacrity :>.
Cheers,
Berin
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
> I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated
> addressing some of the original concerns.
> I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed, and
> an updated status file will cover all of them. At which point
> I'll gladly change this to a +1.
We've all said, I believe, that the STATUS file has to be updated. I have
no problem with your making an issue of it.
> Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted the
> incubator to specifically consider community.
ACO was raising those issues at a time when the JSR was under NDA. See
also: http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?TalkPlutoProposal
As far as I know, those issues are mooted. More to the point, perhaps,
Pluto has been adopted and integrated into the new Portals project, which is
asking for its release, and they don't appear to have any Community
concerns. Do we have any questions about the TCK availability?
In any event, the STATUS file needs to be updated.
--- Noel
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Berin Lautenbach <be...@wingsofhermes.org>.
Guys,
I'm going to vote -1 here, until the status file is updated addressing
some of the original concerns.
Andrew Oliver raised a specific point [1] that the Java PMC wanted the
incubator to specifically consider community.
Also, have a look at some of the e-mail in :
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?listId=&listName=general%40incubator.apache.org&searchText=pluto&defaultField=subject&Search=Search
Guys - I'm quite sure that all the concerns *have* been addressed, and
an updated status file will cover all of them. At which point I'll
gladly change this to a +1.
I also suspect that others in the PMC have more visibility than I, but
we are being quite hard on other projects in incubation, and I believe
we need to be consistent.
Cheers,
Berin
[1]
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=general@incubator.apache.org&msgId=792503
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
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>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Apr 23, 2004, at 9:16 AM, Leo Simons wrote:
> David Sean Taylor wrote:
>> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into
>> the Apache Portals project.
>
> +1. Good luck to pluto!
>
>> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation
>
> except for updating the status file, which someone should do ASAP :-D
>
>
+1 on both :)
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Leo Simons <ls...@jicarilla.org>.
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
+1. Good luck to pluto!
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation
except for updating the status file, which someone should do ASAP :-D
--
cheers,
- Leo Simons
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RE: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@s-und-n.de>.
+1
Carsten
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefan Hepper [mailto:sthepper@hursley.ibm.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 8:23 AM
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
>
> David Sean Taylor wrote:
> > The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of
> incubator into the
> > Apache Portals project.
> > My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> > We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> > stated here:
> >
> > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> > Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
> >
> > --
> > David Sean Taylor
> > taylor@apache.org
> > Apache Portals
> > http://portals.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> +1 from me as well
>
> Stefan
>
> --------
> Stefan Hepper
> Apache Portals PMC
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Stefan Hepper <st...@hursley.ibm.com>.
David Sean Taylor wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
+1 from me as well
Stefan
--------
Stefan Hepper
Apache Portals PMC
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <di...@yahoo.com>.
+1 from me.
-- dims
--- David Sean Taylor <da...@bluesunrise.com> wrote:
> The Portals PMC would like to graduate Pluto out of incubator into the
> Apache Portals project.
> My vote is +1 to graduate Pluto
> We believe we have met the requirements for exiting incubation as
> stated here:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/
> Incubation_Policy.html#Exitting+the+Incubator
>
> --
> David Sean Taylor
> taylor@apache.org
> Apache Portals
> http://portals.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate Pluto
Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
+1
....Roy
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