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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Dave Bettin <ja...@yahoo.com> on 2002/10/14 21:38:33 UTC
Cocoon Port
I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has anyone
heard of such a port, before I get to far?
My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
implementation on the .net platform and also to allow
users to have "cocoon platform independence".
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Tony Collen wrote:
> Dave Bettin wrote:
>
>> I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has anyone
>> heard of such a port, before I get to far?
>>
>> My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
>> implementation on the .net platform and also to allow
>> users to have "cocoon platform independence".
>>
>>
>
> Just wondering, this is not a flame, but which platform doesn't Cocoon
> run on? AFAIK, it runs under IIS with ServletExec already.
> Tony.
C#/.Net has some things that are definitely worth considering:
#1) Can easily use C++/C#/J#/C libraries without having to do odd
imports. I.e. it is language neutral without the overhead of
CORBA
#2) The attributes/delegates functionality of C# is very powerful.
The Avalon team has been looking into mimicking that functionality
in Java. We have support for Delegates (of a fashion), but the
attributes are more difficult. BTW, Attribtutes are the key to
successful and predictable AOP (Aspect Oriented Programming).
Can Cocoon work with Windows/Solaris/AIX/AS400/Linux/put your JVM here?
Yes! And that is its biggest strength. However, there are other things
that we might want to do where Java limits us.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I'm personally happy if somebody ports Cocoon in other languages (people
> already did twice, for Perl and PHP)
I was referring to Axkit as the Cocoon's port in Perl but it's a
mistake: even if they offer similar functionalities and use similar
technologies, AxKit and Cocoon were built and designed independently.
I sincerely apologize for this.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Dave Bettin wrote:
> Stefano,
>
> I will absolutely respect the "Cocoon" name.
Thank you, this is very appreciated.
> (I guess "CocoonSoft" is out :) ) I believe
> Cocoon is a tremendous framework that should be
> available for .Net.
I have no objections to this, as long as it doesn't get into our way.
> As I get farther into this "port" I will use
> some of my own ideas in the implementation. And it
> will slowly break from the Cocoon mold and live
> through it's own community.
It will be exiting to be challenged :) hopefully you'll be able to give
us ideas and suggestions that we weren't able to see from our
java-oriented point of view.
> The only thing I ask, Is I would like to acknowledge
> the ideas for the .Net project were conceived from
> Cocoon?
Sure. I actually like this. It shows that your effort respect ours but
at the same time doesn't try to use its visibility and name to promote
itself.
Just one thing: be aware of the fact that even if you use our source
code and automatically translate it into C# (I know it's possible), that
forces you to state somewhare in your docs that you are basing your work
on software written by the ASF, just like the license states.
That is: licenses apply also to mechanical code translations.
> I appreciate the great framework and will definitely
> not ruin the value of "Cocoon".
Thanks.
From our point of view, I can tell you that as long as mutual respect
is kept, collaboration (and design challenges!) will always be something
that we'll look for. And can potentially make both projects better.
Good luck with your effort.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Dave Bettin <ja...@yahoo.com>.
>
> Dave,
>
> please be aware of the fact that Cocoon lives on
the
> value of its name
> and its license protects it.
>
> I'm personally happy if somebody ports Cocoon in
> other languages (people
> already did twice, for Perl and PHP) but I'll be
> personally pissed if
> they used 'cocoon' inside the name if they
> distribute something which is
> not coming *straight* from this project.
>
> So, whatever you end up with, please, don't call
it
> 'cocoon#' or 'Cocoon
> .NET' or "NCocoon" or anything that
contains Cocoon
> in it, unless you
> want to donate your code to this project and then
> the community will
> decide if we want to maintain two independent
> codebases written in two
> different languages. [but it would be easy to
guess
> the answer]
>
> As far as C# goes, I think .NET does things
better
> than java in a few
> circumstances, but for sure this is not a good
> reason to throw away
> those millions of lines of code we already have.
>
> So, at the end, all I personally ask you is to be
> respectful of our work
> by not abusing the name cocoon for your work.
>
> For anything else, expect great collaboration
from
> me even if I'm not
> going to move my programming skills to C# just
yet.
>
> [and people, please, no language-flamewars, ok?
the
> world is beautiful
> because it's diverse, we just have to be nice and
> respectful one another]
>
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi
> <stefano@apache.org>
Stefano,
I will absolutely respect the "Cocoon" name.
(I guess "CocoonSoft" is out :) ) I believe
Cocoon is a tremendous framework that should be
available for .Net.
As I get farther into this "port" I will use
some of my own ideas in the implementation. And it
will slowly break from the Cocoon mold and live
through it's own community.
The only thing I ask, Is I would like to acknowledge
the ideas for the .Net project were conceived from
Cocoon?
I appreciate the great framework and will definitely
not ruin the value of "Cocoon".
Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Dave Bettin wrote:
> Sorry, should have explained that statement a little
> better. What I intended to mean, was to allow users to
> pick up an application on the .Net port and move it to
> cocoon w/o much hassle and vice a versa.
Dave,
please be aware of the fact that Cocoon lives on the value of its name
and its license protects it.
I'm personally happy if somebody ports Cocoon in other languages (people
already did twice, for Perl and PHP) but I'll be personally pissed if
they used 'cocoon' inside the name if they distribute something which is
not coming *straight* from this project.
So, whatever you end up with, please, don't call it 'cocoon#' or 'Cocoon
.NET' or "NCocoon" or anything that contains Cocoon in it, unless you
want to donate your code to this project and then the community will
decide if we want to maintain two independent codebases written in two
different languages. [but it would be easy to guess the answer]
As far as C# goes, I think .NET does things better than java in a few
circumstances, but for sure this is not a good reason to throw away
those millions of lines of code we already have.
So, at the end, all I personally ask you is to be respectful of our work
by not abusing the name cocoon for your work.
For anything else, expect great collaboration from me even if I'm not
going to move my programming skills to C# just yet.
[and people, please, no language-flamewars, ok? the world is beautiful
because it's diverse, we just have to be nice and respectful one another]
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Dave Bettin <ja...@yahoo.com>.
Sorry, should have explained that statement a little
better. What I intended to mean, was to allow users to
pick up an application on the .Net port and move it to
cocoon w/o much hassle and vice a versa.
Dave
--- Tony Collen <tc...@hist.umn.edu> wrote:
> Dave Bettin wrote:
>
> >I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has
> anyone
> > heard of such a port, before I get to far?
> >
> > My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
> >implementation on the .net platform and also to
> allow
> >users to have "cocoon platform independence".
> >
> >
> >
>
> Just wondering, this is not a flame, but which
> platform doesn't Cocoon
> run on? AFAIK, it runs under IIS with ServletExec
> already.
>
> Tony.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Tony Collen <tc...@hist.umn.edu>.
Dave Bettin wrote:
>I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has anyone
> heard of such a port, before I get to far?
>
> My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
>implementation on the .net platform and also to allow
>users to have "cocoon platform independence".
>
>
>
Just wondering, this is not a flame, but which platform doesn't Cocoon
run on? AFAIK, it runs under IIS with ServletExec already.
Tony.
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by "Ilya A. Kriveshko" <il...@kaon.com>.
Search for 'J#'. All you may need to do to port Cocoon to .NET is
recompile it.
BTW, when you say port, do you mean port of a snapshot of Cocoon, or a
port that would be continuously maintained and track changes in Cocoon?
Do you have a deployment objective in mind, or is this just an exercise?
Just curious.
Best of luck.
--
Ilya
P.S.:
Dave Bettin wrote:
> port of Cocoon to C#/.NET ... to allow users to have "cocoon platform
> independence".
Isn't that an oxymoron. :-) Tee-hee.
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Tony Collen <tc...@hist.umn.edu>.
Dave Bettin wrote:
>My objectives are as follows:
>
>1) Use Avalon C# Port
>2) Take advantage of .Net benefits: caching, codedom,
>xml integration (possibly could be a disadvantage) :)
>3) Language support. Tha ability to have cocoon
>extensions, xsp written in smalltalk,java, eiffel,
>cobol would be nice
>4) Have this run on Mono and other .Net environments.
>5) It's a great framework. Why can't .Net developers
>enjoy.
>5) It's fun
>
>
Fair enough :) Good luck!
Tony
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Dave Bettin <ja...@yahoo.com>.
My objectives are as follows:
1) Use Avalon C# Port
2) Take advantage of .Net benefits: caching, codedom,
xml integration (possibly could be a disadvantage) :)
3) Language support. Tha ability to have cocoon
extensions, xsp written in smalltalk,java, eiffel,
cobol would be nice
4) Have this run on Mono and other .Net environments.
5) It's a great framework. Why can't .Net developers
enjoy.
5) It's fun
Dave
--- Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org> wrote:
> Dave Bettin wrote:
> > I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has
> anyone
> > heard of such a port, before I get to far?
> >
> > My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
> > implementation on the .net platform and also to
> allow
> > users to have "cocoon platform independence".
>
> The Avalon team (which is what Cocoon is built on)
> has
> a port of Avalon Framework for C#. It is largely
> untested,
> and we can't vouch for the build environment (I've
> been trying
> to get C# installed myself), but it is a starting
> point.
>
>
> --
>
> "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a
> little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
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>
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Re: Cocoon Port
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@apache.org>.
Dave Bettin wrote:
> I have started a port of Cocoon to C#/.Net. Has anyone
> heard of such a port, before I get to far?
>
> My goal behind this effort is to provide a cocoon
> implementation on the .net platform and also to allow
> users to have "cocoon platform independence".
The Avalon team (which is what Cocoon is built on) has
a port of Avalon Framework for C#. It is largely untested,
and we can't vouch for the build environment (I've been trying
to get C# installed myself), but it is a starting point.
--
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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