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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Paul Campbell <pw...@u.washington.edu> on 2004/07/16 22:32:27 UTC
Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
I raised this issue a couple of days ago
and the conclusion seemed to be that it's not
supported without substantial work
on my part.
Since then I have seen a couple of other
questions relating to how-to do other
CVS features when the behavior is
different ( for good reason or not )
than it is in Subversion
It might be useful to add this type of info to the FAQ
(Features that work differently or don't work)
examples
keywords such as LOG and ID, .cvsignore
In my case,
I have over a thousand files in which we have
been using ID when we need to verify that the
user has a correct version. The need to do a
propset for so many files is onerous
( difficult and time consuming )
.. flame is now off
This is a quality product that it is working almost
trouble free. I thought it was a completely compatible
replacment for CVS and that is not the case.
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Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by Garry Hill <ga...@ascii-turf.net>.
I agree. Until i got used to the syntax, and had done it enough times to engraven it into my memory, i had to use google to find out how to do ignores and keyword substitution.
> CVS has these keywords available all the time. They're just part of the
> environment and once you've been using CVS for a while, you don't even
> think about using them. It's second nature.
exactly, and both ignores and keywords are both only mentioned in the 'properties' section. i see no intuitive link between CVS keyword substitution, .cvsignore and 'svn propset'.
i suspect that few questions arrive at the list because a google search quickly finds the right page, but still, having to use google to get there is a little frustrating.
it's a documentation thing, nothing more. i think a faq entry would be worthwhile.
g
Peter Kropf [Friday, July 16, 2004] wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 15:45, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> > All of these features are documented in the book, and we even have an
> > appendix in the book (appendix A) that is addressed to CVS users
> > switching over, highlighting differences. Perhaps we should mention the
> > .cvsignore/svn:ignore transition in that appendix, as well as pointers
> > to the svn:keywords feature?
> >
> > Either way, this doesn't seem like a FAQ to me. I've not seen it asked
> > often at all.
>
> I might point out that this was a frustrating issue for me also when I
> first started using SVN. It's not so much that I couldn't figure out
> what to do as it was the frustration in having to figure it out.
>
> CVS has these keywords available all the time. They're just part of the
> environment and once you've been using CVS for a while, you don't even
> think about using them. It's second nature.
>
> With SVN I had assumed that keywords were just there when in fact, they
> weren't. I had to enable them for all the files where I needed keyword
> expansion.
>
> Now that I understand what SVN is doing and how it goes about doing it,
> I much prefer it to CVS. But that mental model leap was a bit of a
> pain...
>
> - Peter
>
>
>
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Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by Peter Kropf <pe...@bayarea.net>.
On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 15:45, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> All of these features are documented in the book, and we even have an
> appendix in the book (appendix A) that is addressed to CVS users
> switching over, highlighting differences. Perhaps we should mention the
> .cvsignore/svn:ignore transition in that appendix, as well as pointers
> to the svn:keywords feature?
>
> Either way, this doesn't seem like a FAQ to me. I've not seen it asked
> often at all.
I might point out that this was a frustrating issue for me also when I
first started using SVN. It's not so much that I couldn't figure out
what to do as it was the frustration in having to figure it out.
CVS has these keywords available all the time. They're just part of the
environment and once you've been using CVS for a while, you don't even
think about using them. It's second nature.
With SVN I had assumed that keywords were just there when in fact, they
weren't. I had to enable them for all the files where I needed keyword
expansion.
Now that I understand what SVN is doing and how it goes about doing it,
I much prefer it to CVS. But that mental model leap was a bit of a
pain...
- Peter
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Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Fri, 2004-07-16 at 17:32, Paul Campbell wrote:
> It might be useful to add this type of info to the FAQ
> (Features that work differently or don't work)
All of these features are documented in the book, and we even have an
appendix in the book (appendix A) that is addressed to CVS users
switching over, highlighting differences. Perhaps we should mention the
.cvsignore/svn:ignore transition in that appendix, as well as pointers
to the svn:keywords feature?
Either way, this doesn't seem like a FAQ to me. I've not seen it asked
often at all.
> In my case,
> I have over a thousand files in which we have
> been using ID when we need to verify that the
> user has a correct version. The need to do a
> propset for so many files is onerous
> ( difficult and time consuming )
It's difficult to propset thousands of files? You can run 'svn propset
-R' to operate on a whole tree recursively. You can also do something
as simple as 'find . -name "*.c" | xargs propset...'.
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Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by Michael W Thelen <th...@cs.utah.edu>.
* Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net> [2004-07-16 16:40]:
> Paul Campbell wrote:
> >examples
> >keywords such as LOG and ID, .cvsignore
> >
> >In my case,
> >I have over a thousand files in which we have
> >been using ID when we need to verify that the
> >user has a correct version. The need to do a
> >propset for so many files is onerous
> >( difficult and time consuming )
>
> Umm, there is support for the svn:ignore property, which is essentially
> equivalent to .cvsignore, and there is an $Id$ keyword, you just have to
> set svn:keywords to Id on each file to get it to expand the keyword.
> Unlike CVS subversion does not default to expanding keywords.
I got the sense that he knows (and is frustrated) about the need to set
svn:keywords to get the $Id$ behavior. The pain of doing that is somewhat
lessened by auto-props, but if you have a lot of files in the repository to
set svn:keywords on, it can be a good-sized task.
That said, I like the fact that svn:keywords is not on by default. Why?
Because the whole philosophy is that Subversion will *not* change your data
without you explicitly telling it to. The inconvenience of setting properties
on many files, if you haven't set up auto-props, can be large. But I don't
find it as compelling as the reassurance that my files will not be silently
changed (read: possibly broken) behind my back because I forgot to disable
keyword substitution (as you must in CVS).
-- Mike
--
Michael W. Thelen
Fall seven times, stand up eight.
-- Japanese proverb
Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by Garrett Rooney <ro...@electricjellyfish.net>.
Paul Campbell wrote:
> examples
> keywords such as LOG and ID, .cvsignore
>
> In my case,
> I have over a thousand files in which we have
> been using ID when we need to verify that the
> user has a correct version. The need to do a
> propset for so many files is onerous
> ( difficult and time consuming )
Umm, there is support for the svn:ignore property, which is essentially
equivalent to .cvsignore, and there is an $Id$ keyword, you just have to
set svn:keywords to Id on each file to get it to expand the keyword.
Unlike CVS subversion does not default to expanding keywords. The only
thing you've mentioned that isn't supported is the $Log$ keyword, and we
have good reasons for not supporting it. I suggest reading up on
svn:ignore and svn:keywords in the book.
-garrett
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Re: Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ
Posted by "C. Michael Pilato" <cm...@collab.net>.
Paul Campbell <pw...@u.washington.edu> writes:
> This is a quality product that it is working almost trouble free. I
> thought it was a completely compatible replacment for CVS and that
> is not the case.
We're striving only for a "compelling replacement", not necessary a
"compatible one". Were compatibility a hard rule instead of just a
guideline we use to reduce the Subversion learning curve, Subversion
wouldn't exist -- yes, CVS is *that* broken. Oddly enough, sometimes
in the course of making things better you actually do have to make
them different.
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Re: Windows support
Posted by Mark Bohlman <mb...@tcicredit.com>.
Kenneth Porter wrote:
> --On Monday, July 19, 2004 9:51 AM +0200 Ulrich Eckhardt
> <ec...@satorlaser.com> wrote:
>
>> Now, about the scripts, there is one problem: on every Unix-like system,
>> you can do 'mail -s ...' to send a mail or 'grep ..' to search some
>> text. On win32 systems however, there is no equivalent available by
>> default, nor is Python or Perl installed usually... wasteland, as you
>> justly called it. ;)
>>
>> Apart from that, I'm sure you can create equivalent batchscripts and
>> submit them to the project, maybe it just hasn't been done yet.
>
>
> Has anyone run svn_load_dirs.pl under the ActiveState interpreter? I'm
> pulling a vendor drop from a Visual Source Safe repository and then
> checking it into my Linux/Apache-based svn repository, and the script
> would be nice for handling added/deleted files.
Haven't specifically tried that script under ActiveState but did (early
on) have problems with ActiveState and other scripts (commit-allower.pl)
if memory is correct and others. Switching to Cygwin's perl build
corrected the problem. I also believe that at least one script now has
a change to make it work well under ActiveState. Sorry can't be more
specific at the moment.
-- Mark
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Re: Windows support
Posted by Kenneth Porter <sh...@sewingwitch.com>.
--On Monday, July 19, 2004 9:51 AM +0200 Ulrich Eckhardt
<ec...@satorlaser.com> wrote:
> Now, about the scripts, there is one problem: on every Unix-like system,
> you can do 'mail -s ...' to send a mail or 'grep ..' to search some
> text. On win32 systems however, there is no equivalent available by
> default, nor is Python or Perl installed usually... wasteland, as you
> justly called it. ;)
>
> Apart from that, I'm sure you can create equivalent batchscripts and
> submit them to the project, maybe it just hasn't been done yet.
Has anyone run svn_load_dirs.pl under the ActiveState interpreter? I'm
pulling a vendor drop from a Visual Source Safe repository and then
checking it into my Linux/Apache-based svn repository, and the script would
be nice for handling added/deleted files.
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RE: Windows support
Posted by Ivan-Assen Ivanov <as...@haemimontgames.com>.
> Apart from that, I'm sure you can create equivalent
> batchscripts and submit them to the project, maybe it just
> hasn't been done yet.
OK, so I've cobbled together a simplistic mailer post-commit hook using a
freeware cmdline mail sender, and I'll do a forbid-emtpy-logs pre-commit
hook script today; where do I send them? Who's in charge of the hooks in the
script?
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Re: Windows support
Posted by Ulrich Eckhardt <ec...@satorlaser.com>.
Firstly, what does that have to do with the 'Lack of $Id$ support - FAQ'?
Google on 'stealing threads', as that's what you have done.
Amir Kolsky wrote:
> Is it possible to have the distribution contain the equivalent of the unix
> scripts? We at the Windows(tm) wasteland feel somewhat left out :-(
Now, about the scripts, there is one problem: on every Unix-like system, you
can do 'mail -s ...' to send a mail or 'grep ..' to search some text. On
win32 systems however, there is no equivalent available by default, nor is
Python or Perl installed usually... wasteland, as you justly called it. ;)
Apart from that, I'm sure you can create equivalent batchscripts and submit
them to the project, maybe it just hasn't been done yet.
Uli
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Windows support
Posted by Amir Kolsky <am...@xpandsoft.com>.
Is it possible to have the distribution contain the equivalent of the unix
scripts? We at the Windows(tm) wasteland feel somewhat left out :-(
Amir
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