Jackrabbit press release

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

Apache projects can issue formal press releases when there are some
major new stuff to be announced beyond the normal technical audience.
Press releases are a good way to generate interest within the press,
analysts, and other similar audiences.

Jackrabbit 2.0 with JCR 2.0 support will definitely be a good reason
for doing a press release, but I'm wondering if we should also do a
press release for Jackrabbit 1.4 later this year. It seems like 1.4 is
becoming our coolest release since Jackrabbit 1.0 and the timing would
coincide nicely with ApacheCon US.

WDYT?

BR,

Jukka Zitting

Re: Jackrabbit press release

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

On 6/29/07, Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com> wrote:
> But I agree making so noise about the 1.4 could attract some more eyes-and-brains
> on the project. An another big release with fireworks, beers and girls for the 2.0?

Big +1 to anything that attracts fireworks, beers, and boys or girls! :-)

BR,

Jukka Zitting

RE: Jackrabbit press release

[Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com>]

I was not saying Jackrabbit had to be perfect, of course ;)
I was referring to Jukka's introduction about apache products and press releases : "some major new stuff to be announced beyond the normal technical audience". And my interpretation is that it should be big enough to :
1. attract more people (on this point I completely agree with you);
2. attract again some people discouraged by some previous lacks of the project.

But I agree making so noise about the 1.4 could attract some more eyes-and-brains on the project. An another big release with fireworks, beers and girls for the 2.0?

Frédéric Esnault

-----Message d'origine-----
De : bdelacretaz@gmail.com [mailto:bdelacretaz@gmail.com] De la part de Bertrand Delacretaz
Envoyé : vendredi 29 juin 2007 13:09
À : dev@jackrabbit.apache.org
Objet : Re: Jackrabbit press release

On 6/29/07, Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com> wrote:

> ...About 1.4 release of Jackrabbit, I'm less enthusiastic, because I think some issues
> should definitely be addressed...

I don't think Jackrabbit has to be perfect to warrant a press release.

Quite the contrary in fact, attracting more people to the project is
the best way to help it evolve.

So I agree with Jukka about making some honest (as opposed to
marketing BS) noise about 1.4.

> ...Maybe I'm not supposed to answer your mail, as I'm not a member of Day, and even
> not an official Jackrabbit developer, but now you have my point of view, whether you
> want it or not ;)...

Opinions from *all* community members are very welcome, thanks for
expressing yourself!

-Bertrand

Re: Jackrabbit press release

[Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>]

On 6/29/07, Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com> wrote:

> ...About 1.4 release of Jackrabbit, I'm less enthusiastic, because I think some issues
> should definitely be addressed...

I don't think Jackrabbit has to be perfect to warrant a press release.

Quite the contrary in fact, attracting more people to the project is
the best way to help it evolve.

So I agree with Jukka about making some honest (as opposed to
marketing BS) noise about 1.4.

> ...Maybe I'm not supposed to answer your mail, as I'm not a member of Day, and even
> not an official Jackrabbit developer, but now you have my point of view, whether you
> want it or not ;)...

Opinions from *all* community members are very welcome, thanks for
expressing yourself!

-Bertrand

RE: Jackrabbit press release

[Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com>]

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jukka Zitting [mailto:jukka.zitting@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : vendredi 29 juin 2007 13:30
À : dev@jackrabbit.apache.org
Objet : Re: Jackrabbit press release

> Personally I find milestones in this process to be
> much more interesting and newsworthy than reaching a plateau where
> nothing much happens anymore.

Right, but IMO a milestone is more interesting for technical audience than end users. But in the other end, of course, doing so will prevent some from thinking it has fell into the "abandoned" status.

> Are you saying that a too big portion of new users are going to
> encounter and be burned by problems or limitations in Jackrabbit? I'm
> actually happy to see some complaints and concerns coming from users
> as that's an important way to identify and prioritize things to be
> fixed. But of course I don't want a majority of users to turn back in
> disgust and never come back.

No I'm not saying that. I'm sure plenty of users just need some basic features. I'm in fact in need of a fully JSR-170 (and maybe 283)-compliant JCR, and Jackrabbit is supposed to be a good candidate. But I need advanced features, like a complete node type administration (modifications, refactoring, deletion...), a powerful and efficient search engine, and so on. Of course all users won't need all this, and will be very happy with their jackrabbit experience. Some, building some more touchy applications, will need more. And the "experts - who said mavens? -" are not going to look at basic features, but more on what makes Jackrabbit noise exciting, all the L1, L2 and optional features implemented.

Problem is, I don't know what is the proportion of users that'll need only what jackrabbit already has...I think you know better than me, as you have more input from more users than I have.

> More users means more contributions means more progress... :-) 

Right, 100 % :-)

> I hear you and will certainly take your points home. It might be
> better to wait for Jackrabbit 2.0 before going for more major
> publicity.

I'm glad you include my opinion in your decision process, but it's just my opinion, many other will have one (different or not), maybe there is enough audience that will be very happy with the 1.4 to justify the press release. And maybe not.... Lucky I'm not you, I don't have to take the decision :-D

Anyway, I'll be there if you need more opinions (or if you know about a place with fireworks, beers and girls !)

Frederic Esnault

Re: Jackrabbit press release

[Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>]

Hi,

On 6/29/07, Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com> wrote:
> About 1.4 release of Jackrabbit, I'm less enthusiastic, because I think some
> issues should definitely be addressed, or at least discussed and if the decision
> is to do nothing about them (yet), some damn good reasons should be found
> and organized into a clear and convincing "counter-attack" speech.

Nothing is ever perfect, and the best any project can do is to evolve
towards perfection. Personally I find milestones in this process to be
much more interesting and newsworthy than reaching a plateau where
nothing much happens anymore.

> Why am I saying this? Simply because going public means bringing on the
> project many people's attention, and most of them will only notice the problems
> and limitations of the product.

I think that Jackrabbit is already (and has been since the 1.0
release) very useful for a variety of users, and would be ready to
reach for ever wider audiences (just did a Jackrabbit presentation in
the Jazoon conference).

Are you saying that a too big portion of new users are going to
encounter and be burned by problems or limitations in Jackrabbit? I'm
actually happy to see some complaints and concerns coming from users
as that's an important way to identify and prioritize things to be
fixed. But of course I don't want a majority of users to turn back in
disgust and never come back.

> And I think there is not enough progress about some major issues
> (administration (checkForReferencesInContent, checkForConflictingContent,
> trivial changes on node types only...) , queries (no joins, no dereferencing in
> predicates,...)).

More users means more contributions means more progress... :-) We very
much depend on users to report back issues, to possibly suggest fixes,
and to perhaps even become a part of the development team.

> Jackrabbit 1.4 will definitely be enjoyable, some points are very interesting to
> me, like the configurable lucene indexing, the ocm, and I must miss some
> others, but I don't really think it will be the good version for a press release.

I hear you and will certainly take your points home. It might be
better to wait for Jackrabbit 2.0 before going for more major
publicity.

> Maybe I'm not supposed to answer your mail, as I'm not a member of Day,
> and even not an official Jackrabbit developer, but now you have my point of
> view, whether you want it or not ;)

Your feedback is definitely very valuable! In fact I value it equally
or even more than input from the same frame of reference that I come
from. Diversity of opinions and needs is vital for growing and
sustaining a vibrant open source community.

BR,

Jukka Zitting

RE: Jackrabbit press release

[Frédéric Esnault <fe...@legisway.com>]

Hi Jukka !

First of all, let me say that I think Jackrabbit 2.0 release would be a perfect reason for going public (press). I mut admit I didn't really had a deep look into the 2.0 features and improvements compared to 1.3 (and 1.4), but I guess there is some good reason to enjoy (I'll check this out later, currently working on a deref-in-predicate turnaround).

About 1.4 release of Jackrabbit, I'm less enthusiastic, because I think some issues should definitely be addressed, or at least discussed and if the decision is to do nothing about them (yet), some damn good reasons should be found and organized into a clear and convincing "counter-attack" speech. Why am I saying this? Simply because going public means bringing on the project many people's attention, and most of them will only notice the problems and limitations of the product. And I think there is not enough progress about some major issues (administration (checkForReferencesInContent, checkForConflictingContent, trivial changes on node types only...) , queries (no joins, no dereferencing in predicates,...)).

Jackrabbit 1.4 will definitely be enjoyable, some points are very interesting to me, like the configurable lucene indexing, the ocm, and I must miss some others, but I don't really think it will be the good version for a press release.

Maybe I'm not supposed to answer your mail, as I'm not a member of Day, and even not an official Jackrabbit developer, but now you have my point of view, whether you want it or not ;)
 
Frédéric Esnault 

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Jukka Zitting [mailto:jukka.zitting@gmail.com] 
Envoyé : vendredi 29 juin 2007 12:33
À : dev@jackrabbit.apache.org
Objet : Jackrabbit press release

Hi,

Apache projects can issue formal press releases when there are some
major new stuff to be announced beyond the normal technical audience.
Press releases are a good way to generate interest within the press,
analysts, and other similar audiences.

Jackrabbit 2.0 with JCR 2.0 support will definitely be a good reason
for doing a press release, but I'm wondering if we should also do a
press release for Jackrabbit 1.4 later this year. It seems like 1.4 is
becoming our coolest release since Jackrabbit 1.0 and the timing would
coincide nicely with ApacheCon US.

WDYT?

BR,

Jukka Zitting