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Posted to user@forrest.apache.org by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.com> on 2006/04/19 10:13:11 UTC
[FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
with my proposals.
TIA
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler
COO Spain
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
thorsten.scherler@wyona.com thorsten@apache.org
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Web Maestro Clay wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2006, at 1:13 AM, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>>
>> I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
>> with my proposals.
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> salu2
>> -- Thorsten Scherler
>
>
> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
> plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of PDF).
> Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
+0 - no time to mentor this summer, but I'd love to see such a plugin
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Yes, that would be nice, the only thing I am unsure is whether it gives
> enough work for the period of time for a GSoC project. Personally I
> think it is quite easy to implement such a plugin.
My aim would be to actually get a complete, tested and documented
plug-ins for both ways out of this.
And judging by the state of the the openOffice-Plugin that is quite a
piece of work. We never even got close to full support and a lot of
the existing features failed with some of my real life office
documents.
However if person is finished early, we can still implement support for
OpenDocument-Slides and Spreadsheets.
If we set up the project with an XP-approach we can start by building a
minimal solution, finish it then tackle the next step.
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>
>>1) Does the student think they can do it? If they don't they will not apply.
>
>
> That's the one I worry about.
>
>
>>2) Do we really expect a student to be able to do it in the time
>>allowed? We have to provide a report to Google saying whether the
>>objectives were met and whether the student should receive their money.
>>The decision about the money is the mentors alone, but it does reflect
>>negatively on the mentor and the student.
>
>
> This one should not be a problem if we defind the additional formats
> as optional second phases.
>
> Problem is: how can we phrase the proposal in a way that doesn't scare
> people off while still motivating them to aim for this second step.
> Any ideas.
Perhaps "future direction" would be better. It implies that it is not
part of the GSoC proposal, but could be brought in if the student
progresses well.
The best students will contact you before applying, so there will be
plenty of opportunity to discuss scope.
> Also, Ross, how do you judge the amaount of work involved? Is it
> realistic to get all of that done? I have my doubts ...
In my opinion, no it is not realistic to get all that done. Remember
these are students. There are some very talented students out there, but
they do not have experience to speed them along. Personally I would
stick to a complete ODT plugins, input and output, with full
documentation. I would create/find a couple of sample ODT documents I
wanted to use, also have a couple of XDoc input documents and have those
documents define the scope of the project, i.e. these documents must
look right in a Forrest content object and there must be complete
documentation about how to use them.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> 1) Does the student think they can do it? If they don't they will not apply.
That's the one I worry about.
> 2) Do we really expect a student to be able to do it in the time
> allowed? We have to provide a report to Google saying whether the
> objectives were met and whether the student should receive their money.
> The decision about the money is the mentors alone, but it does reflect
> negatively on the mentor and the student.
This one should not be a problem if we defind the additional formats
as optional second phases.
Problem is: how can we phrase the proposal in a way that doesn't scare
people off while still motivating them to aim for this second step.
Any ideas.
Also, Ross, how do you judge the amaount of work involved? Is it
realistic to get all of that done? I have my doubts ...
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>
>
>>Although your wiki entry is IMO well-worded, it would be useful and
>>nice not to limit the plugin to merely text documents, but to enable
>>support for ODT Base & Impress (Spreadsheet and Presentation) support
>>(Draw is another 'nice to have').
>
>
> I hesitated to add that since it seems rather ambitious but I have
> added it so that we can always have it as an optional second phase.
Please think carefully about the scoping. It has two significant effects;
1) Does the student think they can do it? If they don't they will not apply.
2) Do we really expect a student to be able to do it in the time
allowed? We have to provide a report to Google saying whether the
objectives were met and whether the student should receive their money.
The decision about the money is the mentors alone, but it does reflect
negatively on the mentor and the student.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Web Maestro Clay wrote:
> Although your wiki entry is IMO well-worded, it would be useful and
> nice not to limit the plugin to merely text documents, but to enable
> support for ODT Base & Impress (Spreadsheet and Presentation) support
> (Draw is another 'nice to have').
I hesitated to add that since it seems rather ambitious but I have
added it so that we can always have it as an optional second phase.
Thanks for your input
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Web Maestro Clay <th...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 20, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> OK, I have added the odt-plugins project to the wiki.
> --
> Ferdinand Soethe
Thank you Ferdinand!
Although your wiki entry is IMO well-worded, it would be useful and
nice not to limit the plugin to merely text documents, but to enable
support for ODT Base & Impress (Spreadsheet and Presentation) support
(Draw is another 'nice to have'). In spite of its short-comings
(which I believe are more the fault of OOo itself rather than the
Forrest OOo plugin) the current OOo plugin currently supports Impress
[1] and there is already a Forrest Excel Input plugin[2] (which
supports Excel 2003 file's 'save as XML' format.
As such, it might be nice(tm) to add Impress & Base, and possibly
Draw (via strongly worded(tm) 'hopeful' goals ;-) to the wiki entry.
[1]
http://forrest.apache.org/pluginDocs/plugins_0_70/
org.apache.forrest.plugin.input.OpenOffice.org/samples/openoffice-
impress.html
[2]
http://forrest.apache.org/pluginDocs/plugins_0_70/
org.apache.forrest.plugin.input.excel/
Clay Leeds
the.webmaestro@gmail.com
My religion is simple. My religion is kindness.
-- HH Dalai Lama of Tibet
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
OK, I have added the odt-plugins project to the wiki.
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Clay Leeds <we...@mac.com>.
On Apr 20, 2006, at 2:37 AM, Ross Gardler wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>> El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 09:51 +0200, Cyriaque Dupoirieux escribió:
>>> le 19/04/2006 19:07 Ferdinand Soethe a écrit :
>>>> Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>>>>> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument
>>>>> *output* plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along
>>>>> the lines of PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest
>>>>> folk might appreciate?
>>>>
>>>> +1^2
>>>
>>> Very nice idea, indeed.
>>> +1^2 too !
>>>
>> Yes, that would be nice, the only thing I am unsure is whether it
>> gives
>> enough work for the period of time for a GSoC project. Personally I
>> think it is quite easy to implement such a plugin.
>
> The scope of the project is not an issue with respect to GSoc. That
> is to be determined by the project itself. Having said that, I
> agree. I think we should aim for a fully documented/tested/
> functional input plugin as well as the output plugin.
>
> Ross
If you're concerned about having work to do, the wording of it could
be something to the effect of:
"Forrest OpenDocument Input and Output Plugins
- "Forrest OpenDocument Input Plugin" enables users to use
OpenDocument files as source files for generating Forrest-based web
sites. This would work similarly to Forrest's OpenOffice.org Plugin's
ability to use OOo files via as source/input files.
- "Forrest OpenDocument Output Plugin" enables users to generate
OpenDocument files, which would be accessible from generating Forrest-
based web sites. This would work similarly to Forrest's FOP/PDF
output system's ability to generate PDF files via Apache FOP.
NOTE: Work has already begun on the Forrest OpenDocument Input
plugin, but it is still considered to be in the early ALPHA stage."
Clay Leeds
webmaestro@mac.com
My religion is simple. My religion is kindness.
-- HH Dalai Lama of Tibet
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 09:51 +0200, Cyriaque Dupoirieux escribió:
>
>>le 19/04/2006 19:07 Ferdinand Soethe a écrit :
>>
>>>Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
>>>>plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
>>>>PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
>>>>
>>>
>>>+1^2
>>>
>>
>>Very nice idea, indeed.
>>+1^2 too !
>>
>
>
> Yes, that would be nice, the only thing I am unsure is whether it gives
> enough work for the period of time for a GSoC project. Personally I
> think it is quite easy to implement such a plugin.
The scope of the project is not an issue with respect to GSoc. That is
to be determined by the project itself. Having said that, I agree. I
think we should aim for a fully documented/tested/functional input
plugin as well as the output plugin.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.com>.
El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 09:51 +0200, Cyriaque Dupoirieux escribió:
> le 19/04/2006 19:07 Ferdinand Soethe a écrit :
> > Web Maestro Clay wrote:
> >
> >
> >> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
> >> plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
> >> PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
> >>
> >
> > +1^2
> >
> Very nice idea, indeed.
> +1^2 too !
>
Yes, that would be nice, the only thing I am unsure is whether it gives
enough work for the period of time for a GSoC project. Personally I
think it is quite easy to implement such a plugin.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler
COO Spain
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
thorsten.scherler@wyona.com thorsten@apache.org
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>
>>Does that mean you can undertake to cover for Ferdinand during his
>>holidays (see other mails in this thread).
>
>
>>I'll do my best, but at this stage am unable to promise to be available
>>for the whole period. If there is someone who can then they should be
>>named co-mentor.
>
>
> I could probably use all the support I can get, now that ApacheCon is also
> going to happen.
> About the know-how side of things:
>
> I haven't watched too closely last year but me gut feeling is that I would
> basically facilitate that persons work (and introduce him to the
> Apache ways) while technical questions would be answered by the
> community, right?
It should be a community effort. But the mentor ensures that the student
does not get lost - it's akin to voting +1 on an issue and actualy
following through like we are supposed to.
Everything, including the processes etc. is a community effort. Last
year David was very active in some aspects and at least half the
community found the time to contribute in some way. With this proposal I
suspect community assistance would be much greater since the code would
be understandable to all (last year it was Eclipse code - not a common
knowledge set here).
It's not too onerous a task (at least not if you pick your student well).
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> Does that mean you can undertake to cover for Ferdinand during his
> holidays (see other mails in this thread).
> I'll do my best, but at this stage am unable to promise to be available
> for the whole period. If there is someone who can then they should be
> named co-mentor.
I could probably use all the support I can get, now that ApacheCon is also
going to happen.
About the know-how side of things:
I haven't watched too closely last year but me gut feeling is that I would
basically facilitate that persons work (and introduce him to the
Apache ways) while technical questions would be answered by the
community, right?
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Cyriaque Dupoirieux wrote:
> le 19/04/2006 19:07 Ferdinand Soethe a écrit :
>
>> Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
>>> plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
>>> PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
>>>
>>
>>
>> +1^2
>>
>
> Very nice idea, indeed.
> +1^2 too !
Does that mean you can undertake to cover for Ferdinand during his
holidays (see other mails in this thread).
I'll do my best, but at this stage am unable to promise to be available
for the whole period. If there is someone who can then they should be
named co-mentor.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Cyriaque Dupoirieux <Cy...@pcotech.fr>.
le 19/04/2006 19:07 Ferdinand Soethe a écrit :
> Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>
>
>> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
>> plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
>> PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
>>
>
> +1^2
>
Very nice idea, indeed.
+1^2 too !
Cyriaque,
> I'd really like to see this happening because it would finally solve
> the problem of fop doing a rather poor job of complex pagination.
>
> Having a reasonably complete plug-in to create OpenDocument (text)
> documents people could automate document generation then manually
> paginate (fine tune) the final odt-documents.
>
> And if this worked together well with the odt-input-plugin we could
> finally support a closed editing cycle so that edits to the final (print)
> version (as is often done in press-publications) can be fed back into
> the source for all other channels.
>
> Preservation of pagination would be another great feature.
>
> --
> Ferdinand Soethe
>
>
>
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> As long as you have a co-mentor who is willing to cover that period it
> will be fine. Do you have the exact dates, I may be able to commit to
> being a co-mentor.
The long period would be July 28th to August 13.
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
>
>
>>If you are able to mentor this please add a proposal to the SoC wiki [1].
>
>
>>Mentoring means you undertake to apply the students patches in a timely
>>manner and ensure that their questions are answered. However, as you saw
>>last year, it should be a community effort. I will certainly assist in
>>the mentoring, I just don't have the time to be the main mentor.
>
>
> I'd be happy to give it a try but I'll be away for a couple of shorter
> trips during the summer the longest being three weeks in early August.
> Not sure if that is good enough to support the student. Wdyt?
As long as you have a co-mentor who is willing to cover that period it
will be fine. Do you have the exact dates, I may be able to commit to
being a co-mentor.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> If you are able to mentor this please add a proposal to the SoC wiki [1].
> Mentoring means you undertake to apply the students patches in a timely
> manner and ensure that their questions are answered. However, as you saw
> last year, it should be a community effort. I will certainly assist in
> the mentoring, I just don't have the time to be the main mentor.
I'd be happy to give it a try but I'll be away for a couple of shorter
trips during the summer the longest being three weeks in early August.
Not sure if that is good enough to support the student. Wdyt?
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> Web Maestro Clay wrote:
>
>
>>I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
>>plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
>>PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
>
>
> +1^2
If you are able to mentor this please add a proposal to the SoC wiki [1].
Mentoring means you undertake to apply the students patches in a timely
manner and ensure that their questions are answered. However, as you saw
last year, it should be a community effort. I will certainly assist in
the mentoring, I just don't have the time to be the main mentor.
Ross
[1] http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Web Maestro Clay wrote:
> I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
> plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
> PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
+1^2
I'd really like to see this happening because it would finally solve
the problem of fop doing a rather poor job of complex pagination.
Having a reasonably complete plug-in to create OpenDocument (text)
documents people could automate document generation then manually
paginate (fine tune) the final odt-documents.
And if this worked together well with the odt-input-plugin we could
finally support a closed editing cycle so that edits to the final (print)
version (as is often done in press-publications) can be fed back into
the source for all other channels.
Preservation of pagination would be another great feature.
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Web Maestro Clay <th...@gmail.com>.
On Apr 19, 2006, at 1:13 AM, Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>
> I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
> with my proposals.
>
> TIA
>
> salu2
> --
> Thorsten Scherler
I was thinking it 'might be nice to have' an OpenDocument *output*
plugin (in addition to an ODT *input* plugin & along the lines of
PDF). Does that sound like something the Forrest folk might appreciate?
Clay Leeds
the.webmaestro@gmail.com
My religion is simple. My religion is kindness.
-- HH Dalai Lama of Tibet
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
>> But what about the other application? So far only Ross has commented
>> and I agree with his point about xsl as a skill never being mentioned.
> I also made this comment visible to the student in order to give them a
> chance to address it. So far they have not done so.
That's good to know.
>> So what happens next? Can we email the applicant to find out more.
> Sure. But I would advise against chasing them. We need self-starters who
> want to work on the project not get some free money.
+1 If they haven't reacted until now they are not really our type of
people.
>> Are you, Thorsten, going to do this and report back.
>> Should we, the other mentors comment and rate the application?
> Anyone is welcome to comment on or rate the app. Unless someone
> volunteers to mentor it then it will not get accepted. If someone
> volunteers to mentor it then it is dependant on the score it receives as
> to whether it gets accepted.
So I guess we'll just let it go for this year.
--
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Ferdinand Soethe wrote:
> I today checked the list of students proposals after the deadline for
> applications has expired.
>
> Nobody aplication for the ODT-plugins as far as I can tell,
> just one application for the refactoring of dispatcher
> (http://code.google.com/soc/asf/app.html?csaid=mingwxia@gmail.com:f2c9998f:9db1d897).
>
> So I guess I won't have to become a mentor this summer, what a relief!
>
> But what about the other application? So far only Ross has commented
> and I agree with his point about xsl as a skill never being mentioned.
I also made this comment visible to the student in order to give them a
chance to address it. So far they have not done so.
> So what happens next? Can we email the applicant to find out more.
Sure. But I would advise against chasing them. We need self-starters who
want to work on the project not get some free money.
> Are you, Thorsten, going to do this and report back.
> Should we, the other mentors comment and rate the application?
Anyone is welcome to comment on or rate the app. Unless someone
volunteers to mentor it then it will not get accepted. If someone
volunteers to mentor it then it is dependant on the score it receives as
to whether it gets accepted.
Ross
>
>
> Regards,
> Ferdinand Soethe
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ferdinand Soethe <fe...@apache.org>.
I today checked the list of students proposals after the deadline for
applications has expired.
Nobody aplication for the ODT-plugins as far as I can tell,
just one application for the refactoring of dispatcher
(http://code.google.com/soc/asf/app.html?csaid=mingwxia@gmail.com:f2c9998f:9db1d897).
So I guess I won't have to become a mentor this summer, what a relief!
But what about the other application? So far only Ross has commented
and I agree with his point about xsl as a skill never being mentioned.
So what happens next? Can we email the applicant to find out more.
Are you, Thorsten, going to do this and report back.
Should we, the other mentors comment and rate the application?
Regards,
Ferdinand Soethe
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 10:59 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
>
>>El mié, 19-04-2006 a las 10:13 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
>>
>>>http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>>>
>>>I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
>>>with my proposals.
>>>
>>>TIA
>>
>>Who volunteers to be co-mentor for this projects with me?
>
>
> Further does the community wants this projects?
Speaking for myself only, that all depends on what you expect from the
me as a member of the community. I would love to see these projects, but
I do not have much time to contribute directly other than by providing
the usual community support to the SoC candidate. For me that means
attempting to provide guidance when questions are raised *not* working
directly on the code since a marriage of Lenya + Forrest is not my itch.
I was assuming lazy consensus was in operation, I think others in the
community are too.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 10:59 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> El mié, 19-04-2006 a las 10:13 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> > http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
> >
> > I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
> > with my proposals.
> >
> > TIA
>
> Who volunteers to be co-mentor for this projects with me?
Further does the community wants this projects?
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> El mié, 19-04-2006 a las 10:13 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
>
>>http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>>
>>I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
>>with my proposals.
>>
>>TIA
>
>
> Who volunteers to be co-mentor for this projects with me?
As with the ODT output plugin, I am +1 with respect to assisting as aprt
of the community, but I'm not sure I can commit to being a co-mentor.
Ross
Re: [FYI] Google Summer of Code 2006
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.com>.
El mié, 19-04-2006 a las 10:13 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>
> I added two proposals, maybe somebody wants to add more and/or help me
> with my proposals.
>
> TIA
Who volunteers to be co-mentor for this projects with me?
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler
COO Spain
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
thorsten.scherler@wyona.com thorsten@apache.org
Re: GSoC proposal "lenya-forrest-doco"
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@apache.org>.
El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 10:58 +0200, Thorsten Scherler escribió:
> El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 12:31 +1000, David Crossley escribió:
> > Ross Gardler wrote:
> > > David Crossley wrote:
> > > >Regarding Thorsten's proposal for Doco at
> > > >http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
> > > >
> > > >I see the phrases "for apache projects" and
> > > >"for Apache wide usage".
> > > >
> > > >We have been very careful at Forrest recently to not push
> > > >our products in that way. If other Apache projects want
> > > >to utilise it, then that is their choice.
> > > >
> > > >For example see the recent kerfuffle at Incubator and
> > > >the animosity towards Forrest.
> > > >
> > > >Also see the proposal for assisting with site-dev@
> > > >solutions for general documentation publishing solutions.
> > > >We took great care to make sure that Forrest is just
> > > >another tool.
> > > >http://people.apache.org/~crossley/proposal-asf-publish.html
> > > >http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-dev/Site-Build.html
> > > >
> > > >So as a Forrest PMC member, i am concerned about opening
> > > >this can of worms again.
> > > >
> > > >I suggest that those words be removed so that it is just
> > > >a generic documentation publication and CMS solution.
> > > >What do others think?
> > >
> > > It would certainly make things more acceptable to other ASF people - who
> > > will ultimately decide what projects get accepted. It is also likely to
> > > reduce the flack the project may cop.
> > >
> > > As long as Thorsten understands that the changing the words does not
> > > change the value of the proposal.
> >
> > That was one other reason that i raised this issue.
> > I don't see the need for limiting its scope. Sure,
> > as always, the ASF is a good "use case".
> >
> > So i think that this change of words will enhance
> > the proposal in various ways.
>
> If you think the wording need changes, feel free to update it.
Thanks, David for changing the wording.
salu2
--
thorsten
"Together we stand, divided we fall!"
Hey you (Pink Floyd)
Re: GSoC proposal "lenya-forrest-doco"
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.com>.
El jue, 20-04-2006 a las 12:31 +1000, David Crossley escribió:
> Ross Gardler wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > >Regarding Thorsten's proposal for Doco at
> > >http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
> > >
> > >I see the phrases "for apache projects" and
> > >"for Apache wide usage".
> > >
> > >We have been very careful at Forrest recently to not push
> > >our products in that way. If other Apache projects want
> > >to utilise it, then that is their choice.
> > >
> > >For example see the recent kerfuffle at Incubator and
> > >the animosity towards Forrest.
> > >
> > >Also see the proposal for assisting with site-dev@
> > >solutions for general documentation publishing solutions.
> > >We took great care to make sure that Forrest is just
> > >another tool.
> > >http://people.apache.org/~crossley/proposal-asf-publish.html
> > >http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-dev/Site-Build.html
> > >
> > >So as a Forrest PMC member, i am concerned about opening
> > >this can of worms again.
> > >
> > >I suggest that those words be removed so that it is just
> > >a generic documentation publication and CMS solution.
> > >What do others think?
> >
> > It would certainly make things more acceptable to other ASF people - who
> > will ultimately decide what projects get accepted. It is also likely to
> > reduce the flack the project may cop.
> >
> > As long as Thorsten understands that the changing the words does not
> > change the value of the proposal.
>
> That was one other reason that i raised this issue.
> I don't see the need for limiting its scope. Sure,
> as always, the ASF is a good "use case".
>
> So i think that this change of words will enhance
> the proposal in various ways.
If you think the wording need changes, feel free to update it.
salu2
--
Thorsten Scherler
COO Spain
Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya
http://www.wyona.com http://lenya.apache.org
thorsten.scherler@wyona.com thorsten@apache.org
Re: GSoC proposal "lenya-forrest-doco"
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Ross Gardler wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> >Regarding Thorsten's proposal for Doco at
> >http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
> >
> >I see the phrases "for apache projects" and
> >"for Apache wide usage".
> >
> >We have been very careful at Forrest recently to not push
> >our products in that way. If other Apache projects want
> >to utilise it, then that is their choice.
> >
> >For example see the recent kerfuffle at Incubator and
> >the animosity towards Forrest.
> >
> >Also see the proposal for assisting with site-dev@
> >solutions for general documentation publishing solutions.
> >We took great care to make sure that Forrest is just
> >another tool.
> >http://people.apache.org/~crossley/proposal-asf-publish.html
> >http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-dev/Site-Build.html
> >
> >So as a Forrest PMC member, i am concerned about opening
> >this can of worms again.
> >
> >I suggest that those words be removed so that it is just
> >a generic documentation publication and CMS solution.
> >What do others think?
>
> It would certainly make things more acceptable to other ASF people - who
> will ultimately decide what projects get accepted. It is also likely to
> reduce the flack the project may cop.
>
> As long as Thorsten understands that the changing the words does not
> change the value of the proposal.
That was one other reason that i raised this issue.
I don't see the need for limiting its scope. Sure,
as always, the ASF is a good "use case".
So i think that this change of words will enhance
the proposal in various ways.
-David
Re: GSoC proposal "lenya-forrest-doco"
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>.
David Crossley wrote:
> Regarding Thorsten's proposal for Doco at
> http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
>
> I see the phrases "for apache projects" and
> "for Apache wide usage".
>
> We have been very careful at Forrest recently to not push
> our products in that way. If other Apache projects want
> to utilise it, then that is their choice.
>
> For example see the recent kerfuffle at Incubator and
> the animosity towards Forrest.
>
> Also see the proposal for assisting with site-dev@
> solutions for general documentation publishing solutions.
> We took great care to make sure that Forrest is just
> another tool.
> http://people.apache.org/~crossley/proposal-asf-publish.html
> http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-dev/Site-Build.html
>
> So as a Forrest PMC member, i am concerned about opening
> this can of worms again.
>
> I suggest that those words be removed so that it is just
> a generic documentation publication and CMS solution.
> What do others think?
It would certainly make things more acceptable to other ASF people - who
will ultimately decide what projects get accepted. It is also likely to
reduce the flack the project may cop.
As long as Thorsten understands that the changing the words does not
change the value of the proposal.
Ross
GSoC proposal "lenya-forrest-doco"
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@apache.org>.
Regarding Thorsten's proposal for Doco at
http://wiki.apache.org/general/SummerOfCode2006
I see the phrases "for apache projects" and
"for Apache wide usage".
We have been very careful at Forrest recently to not push
our products in that way. If other Apache projects want
to utilise it, then that is their choice.
For example see the recent kerfuffle at Incubator and
the animosity towards Forrest.
Also see the proposal for assisting with site-dev@
solutions for general documentation publishing solutions.
We took great care to make sure that Forrest is just
another tool.
http://people.apache.org/~crossley/proposal-asf-publish.html
http://people.apache.org/~rgardler/site-dev/Site-Build.html
So as a Forrest PMC member, i am concerned about opening
this can of worms again.
I suggest that those words be removed so that it is just
a generic documentation publication and CMS solution.
What do others think?
-David