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Posted to mod_python-dev@quetz.apache.org by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com> on 2007/02/08 03:47:42 UTC

[VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Hi all,

With my VP, Apache HTTP Server, pointy hat on...

Generally speaking, the goal of any Apache project is that the people
who are doing the work should also be the ones with the responsibility
for making the rules, deciding when to release, resolving their own
conflicts, inviting new committers, making infrastructure requests,
and occasionally reporting to the ASF board about all of the above.
The mod_python committers have effectively been doing that for a long
time, on their own, and with no problems apparent to my eyes.  However,
mod_python is currently an official responsibility of the HTTP Server
project, as a whole, and for me in particular to report on it.

The board is meeting on the 20th, which means I need to prepare a
report before the 18th, and one of the things I'd like to say in
that report is that the mod_python developers have decided to form
their own top-level project, with its own chair/VP, and here is the
resolution to make it happen.

Of course, I can't really do that unless that is what you actually
want me to do, so the first step is to vote:

   +1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP
    0 don't care
   -1 opposed to doing our own laundry

The vote shall be open 72 hours or until all of the mod_python
core group members have voted, whichever is earlier.

The second step is to acknowledge that, if approved, you would
like to be named as one of the PMC members of a mod_python project
in the proposed board resolution.

The third step is to please nominate one of those PMC members to
be named as the chair/VP responsible for interacting with the ASF
board.  It should be someone who is willing to listen to the board
mailing list, able to make infrastructure requests on behalf of the
project, and desiring to facilitate (not dictate) decisions to be
made by the project.  It is not a "technical lead" style of position,
though there are many technical leaders who also happen to be good
project chairs.  Feel free to nominate or un-nominate yourself.

If there is more than one nominee that wants to be chair, then
I will set up a quick vote or suitably random toss after the rest
of the resolution is determined.  Please note that the chair serves
as the representative of the board, so it is the board that actually
decides who will be chair and can replace the chair at any time,
though they usually follow the project's nomination.

Cheers,

....Roy

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Jim Gallacher wrote:
> Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 2007, at 8:30 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Roy,
>>>
>>> +1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP
>>>
>>> +2 to the alterative: approve requesting a python TLP
>>
>> I think that would be fine, except you will have to come up with a
>> name that is not "Apache Python Project".  That is essentially a
>> trademark infringement and I know the Perl community doesn't like
>> the way we named Perl-Apache either.  Java became Jakarta for the
>> same reason.
> 
> I wondered about the trademark issue.
> 
> How is it handled within the ASF if we coin a new name? Do we just come 
> up with a name and hope for the best or does the foundation need to 
> trademark it? For example I see that "Tomcat" and "Apache Tomcat" are 
> trademarked, but I don't see anything for Jakarta.
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated.
> 

On the other hand, we could always ask the PSF for permission to use 
"Python" as in "The Apache Python Project". The worst that could happen 
is they might so "no". Their guidelines seem fairly generous as long as 
our stuff is related to the Python programming language.

http://www.python.org/psf/trademarks/

Jim


Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jg...@apache.org>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Feb 9, 2007, at 8:30 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> 
>> Hi Roy,
>>
>> +1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP
>>
>> +2 to the alterative: approve requesting a python TLP
> 
> I think that would be fine, except you will have to come up with a
> name that is not "Apache Python Project".  That is essentially a
> trademark infringement and I know the Perl community doesn't like
> the way we named Perl-Apache either.  Java became Jakarta for the
> same reason.

I wondered about the trademark issue.

How is it handled within the ASF if we coin a new name? Do we just come 
up with a name and hope for the best or does the foundation need to 
trademark it? For example I see that "Tomcat" and "Apache Tomcat" are 
trademarked, but I don't see anything for Jakarta.

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Jim


Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Feb 9, 2007, at 8:30 AM, Jim Gallacher wrote:

> Hi Roy,
>
> +1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP
>
> +2 to the alterative: approve requesting a python TLP

I think that would be fine, except you will have to come up with a
name that is not "Apache Python Project".  That is essentially a
trademark infringement and I know the Perl community doesn't like
the way we named Perl-Apache either.  Java became Jakarta for the
same reason.

....Roy

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 2/9/07, Jim Gallacher <jg...@apache.org> wrote:
> Would it be possible to expand the proposal a little, whereby we would
> become a TLP for python modules for httpd, rather than just mod_python
> as a TLP?

Certainly!

> At any rate, I'd be very happy to server on the new PMC, and if there a
> lack of candidates I would stand for the chair as well.

FWIW, I would be more than happy to be on a mod_python PMC - if only
to ensure that there's some communication with the httpd folks and
that ya'll aren't stuck on a deserted island.  =)  -- justin

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jg...@apache.org>.
Hi Roy,

+1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP

+2 to the alterative: approve requesting a python TLP

This is an idea that we've been knocking around for a while now, so I 
think your timing is good.

Would it be possible to expand the proposal a little, whereby we would 
become a TLP for python modules for httpd, rather than just mod_python 
as a TLP?

Just before Christmas there was a thread on the mod_python users list 
where some interesting ideas were discussed. The upshot is that there 
are 2 distinct types of mod_python users: those that want to access the 
full httpd API (currently mod_python only provides a subset); and those 
that just want an embedded python interpreter to run third party 
frameworks such as django or trac using wsgi.

Graham Dumpleton outlines his wsgi vision here:
http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2006-December/022841.html 
but to summarize, mod_python might evolve into 2 separate modules: 
mod_python (swigged version) for full access to the httpd API; and 
mod_wsgi, which would be a cut down version offering only an interpreter 
and a wsgi interface for 3rd party applications. Graham believes 
mod_wsgi could be compatible with httpd 1.3 and thus improve the uptake 
of python for a lot of shared hosting environments, many of which are 
regrettably stuck at 1.3.

Some further musings on mod_python architectural changes:
http://www.modpython.org/pipermail/mod_python/2006-December/022881.html
where Graham explores the idea of making mod_python more modular. A new 
core module would be created, with the current mod_python API or 
mod_wsgi as personalities on top of that core.

I think there is great merit in Graham's ideas, so if we are going to 
move to a TLP I'd like to make sure we build for this future. I'm not 
saying things will evolve this way for sure, but if we are making 
infrastructure changes now we may as well plan for this future growth.

I hope Graham has a chance to chip in here, but he is on holiday right 
now and may not check his email within the 72 hour time frame for the 
vote. I know it is not binding but I'm confident he would support 
mod_python becoming a TLP. In fact I believe he alludes to such in the 
second email linked above.

At any rate, I'd be very happy to server on the new PMC, and if there a 
lack of candidates I would stand for the chair as well.

Sincerely,
Jim Gallacher

Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> With my VP, Apache HTTP Server, pointy hat on...
> 
> Generally speaking, the goal of any Apache project is that the people
> who are doing the work should also be the ones with the responsibility
> for making the rules, deciding when to release, resolving their own
> conflicts, inviting new committers, making infrastructure requests,
> and occasionally reporting to the ASF board about all of the above.
> The mod_python committers have effectively been doing that for a long
> time, on their own, and with no problems apparent to my eyes.  However,
> mod_python is currently an official responsibility of the HTTP Server
> project, as a whole, and for me in particular to report on it.
> 
> The board is meeting on the 20th, which means I need to prepare a
> report before the 18th, and one of the things I'd like to say in
> that report is that the mod_python developers have decided to form
> their own top-level project, with its own chair/VP, and here is the
> resolution to make it happen.
> 
> Of course, I can't really do that unless that is what you actually
> want me to do, so the first step is to vote:
> 
>   +1 approve requesting a mod_python TLP
>    0 don't care
>   -1 opposed to doing our own laundry
> 
> The vote shall be open 72 hours or until all of the mod_python
> core group members have voted, whichever is earlier.
> 
> The second step is to acknowledge that, if approved, you would
> like to be named as one of the PMC members of a mod_python project
> in the proposed board resolution.
> 
> The third step is to please nominate one of those PMC members to
> be named as the chair/VP responsible for interacting with the ASF
> board.  It should be someone who is willing to listen to the board
> mailing list, able to make infrastructure requests on behalf of the
> project, and desiring to facilitate (not dictate) decisions to be
> made by the project.  It is not a "technical lead" style of position,
> though there are many technical leaders who also happen to be good
> project chairs.  Feel free to nominate or un-nominate yourself.
> 
> If there is more than one nominee that wants to be chair, then
> I will set up a quick vote or suitably random toss after the rest
> of the resolution is determined.  Please note that the chair serves
> as the representative of the board, so it is the board that actually
> decides who will be chair and can replace the chair at any time,
> though they usually follow the project's nomination.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ....Roy
> 



Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jg...@apache.org>.
Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> The vote shall be open 72 hours or until all of the mod_python
>> core group members have voted, whichever is earlier.
> 
> Well, I didn't get enough responses, so this will have to wait
> until after folks figure out what to do next.

Bad timing I guess. We'll have to try to get our act together in time 
for the March 21 board meeting.

For your February report to the board, mod_python 3.3.1 is ready for 
release - just waiting for Grisha to make the public announcement. Other 
than that things are pretty quiet around here right now.

Jim G.




Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Ulf Wostner <wo...@cyberprof.com>.
How about naming it PyPache ?

Ulf






On Wed May 9 2007 05:56 pm Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> On 10/05/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
> > 1. "Python" is not a good name for this project because "Apache Python"
> > will just be too confusing and probably infringes on a PSF trademark. So
> > if you have any creative suggestions, send them in, don't be shy, even if
> > you think they may sound a little stupid at first :-)
>
> How about 'Asphyxia'. This being the outcome if a Python gets you. :-)
>
> Since the reason for the TLP being for Python rather than just
> mod_python was the idea there might be more than just the mod_python
> project, ie., other Apache/Python modules, then maybe call it
> 'Pythonidae'. This is the more technical name for the family of snakes
> which people call Pythons. Not sure how you are meant to pronounce
> that though.
>
> Graham



Re: TLP Name

Posted by Ulf Wostner <wo...@cyberprof.com>.
+1 for PyPache


On Wed May 16 2007 02:06 pm Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
>
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi
>
> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please
> respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Grisha



Re: TLP Name

Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 18/05/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 17 May 2007, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>
> > Quetzalcoatl is still my sentimental favourite.
> >
> > Perhaps I'm overly concerned with potential search problems for
> > Quetzalcoatl, considering that Google is pretty good at figuring out
> > spelling errors. Also the mod_python name will not disappear, as it'll
> > still be used as a subproject name, so people can find us that way.
>
> Yep. I don't think the TLP itself will be searched for, it's always going
> to be subprojects, and most likely over time a search for "Apache Python"
> will take you there (like it does for mod_python currently). And of course
> there is the spelling correction.

I'd tend to agree that the name for the TLP is really only a code name
as such and isn't going to be how people search for things. Thus as
much as it may take me a while to learn to spell Quetzalcoatl (good
thing we have cut and paste), that it is hard to spell is probably not
a problem.

Also, as for the web site URL for the TLP, I'd suggest we should be
okay still using:

  http://python.apache.org

Graham

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jorey Bump <li...@joreybump.com>.
For me, it's a tie between Quetzalcoatl & Scales.

Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
> 
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi
> 
> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please 
> respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grisha


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Nesan Waran <nw...@gmail.com>.
+1 Scales

Apache Scales sounds simple enough. Although it seems to be an  
underdog in this competition.


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jorey Bump <li...@joreybump.com>.
+1 Quetzalcoatl

Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> 
> So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl 
> thrid.
> 
> Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one 
> name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to 
> account for.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 18 May 2007, Clodoaldo wrote:
> 
>> +1 pypache
>>
>> 2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>>>
>>>  +1 on pypache
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Clodoaldo Pinto Neto
>>


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Nick <ni...@dd.revealed.net>.
+1 Quetzalcoatl

Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
Quetzalcoatl is the winner.

Grisha


On Tue, 22 May 2007, Rob Sanderson wrote:

>
>
> +1 Quetzalcoatl
>
> And ditto re pyFoo and kFoo. :)
>
> Rob
>
> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 12:08 -0400, Jim Gallacher wrote:
>> +1 Quetzalcoatl
>>
>> I think I voted 3 times for different things, so this is my *final*
>> official vote. ;)
>>
>> I'm not a fan of pypache for the same reasons that others have stated.
>> Projects that stick py, q, k or gnu on the front of the name have always
>> bugged me.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl
>>> thrid.
>>>
>>> Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one
>>> name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to
>>> account for.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 18 May 2007, Clodoaldo wrote:
>>>
>>>> +1 pypache
>>>>
>>>> 2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>  +1 on pypache
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Clodoaldo Pinto Neto
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Rob Sanderson <az...@liverpool.ac.uk>.

+1 Quetzalcoatl

And ditto re pyFoo and kFoo. :)

Rob

On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 12:08 -0400, Jim Gallacher wrote:
> +1 Quetzalcoatl
> 
> I think I voted 3 times for different things, so this is my *final* 
> official vote. ;)
> 
> I'm not a fan of pypache for the same reasons that others have stated. 
> Projects that stick py, q, k or gnu on the front of the name have always 
> bugged me.
> 
> Jim
> 
> Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl 
> > thrid.
> > 
> > Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one 
> > name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to 
> > account for.
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 18 May 2007, Clodoaldo wrote:
> > 
> >> +1 pypache
> >>
> >> 2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
> >>>
> >>>  +1 on pypache
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Clodoaldo Pinto Neto
> >>
> > 
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
+1 Quetzalcoatl

I think I voted 3 times for different things, so this is my *final* 
official vote. ;)

I'm not a fan of pypache for the same reasons that others have stated. 
Projects that stick py, q, k or gnu on the front of the name have always 
bugged me.

Jim

Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> 
> So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl 
> thrid.
> 
> Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one 
> name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to 
> account for.
> 
> 
> On Fri, 18 May 2007, Clodoaldo wrote:
> 
>> +1 pypache
>>
>> 2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>>>
>>>  +1 on pypache
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Clodoaldo Pinto Neto
>>
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com>.
To confirm my vote in correct format:

  +1 Quetzalcoatl

Graham

On 22/05/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
>
> > FWIW, the full name of the TLP will be: "Apache <foo>" - so "Apache
> > PyPache" doesn't roll off the tongue very well...
>
> Yes, Apache PyPache does sound a bit silly. My vote is then:
>
> +1 Quetzalcoatl
>
> Those who have not voted yet (there are hundreds of you, I know) PLEASE
> keep on sending in your votes.
>
> Grisha
>

Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Daniel J. Popowich" <dp...@comcast.net>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy writes:
> 
> On Sun, 20 May 2007, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
> 
> > FWIW, the full name of the TLP will be: "Apache <foo>" - so "Apache 
> > PyPache" doesn't roll off the tongue very well...
> 
> Yes, Apache PyPache does sound a bit silly. My vote is then:
> 
> +1 Quetzalcoatl
> 
> Those who have not voted yet (there are hundreds of you, I know) PLEASE 
> keep on sending in your votes.

Now that it has been made clear "Apache <foo>" will be the official
name, I would like to CHANGE my vote.  So please REMOVE my previous +1
PyPache and:

+1 Quetzalcoatl


Dan

Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
On Sun, 20 May 2007, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:

> FWIW, the full name of the TLP will be: "Apache <foo>" - so "Apache 
> PyPache" doesn't roll off the tongue very well...

Yes, Apache PyPache does sound a bit silly. My vote is then:

+1 Quetzalcoatl

Those who have not voted yet (there are hundreds of you, I know) PLEASE 
keep on sending in your votes.

Grisha

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 5/19/07, Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net> wrote:
> I'd also like to say I think PyPache is _bad_ name - to me, the mangling
> of "Apache" is awkward and unattractive. It's also not at all obvious
> (at least, outside of a strong ASF context) that "pache" relates to
> "apache" - therefore, without the supporting context, I'd mentally
> assign the pronunciation "pie-pash" to the name.
>
> For those reasons, I think Quetzalcoatl, Terrarium, or even Scales
> despite its lack of searchability, would be preferable over PyPache.

Ditto.  The name mangling concerns me a bit.  FWIW, the full name of
the TLP will be: "Apache <foo>" - so "Apache PyPache" doesn't roll off
the tongue very well...  -- justin

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Max Bowsher <ma...@ukf.net>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> 
> So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl
> thrid.
> 
> Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one
> name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to
> account for.

I'd like to vote for Quetzalcoatl.

I'd also like to say I think PyPache is _bad_ name - to me, the mangling
of "Apache" is awkward and unattractive. It's also not at all obvious
(at least, outside of a strong ASF context) that "pache" relates to
"apache" - therefore, without the supporting context, I'd mentally
assign the pronunciation "pie-pash" to the name.

For those reasons, I think Quetzalcoatl, Terrarium, or even Scales
despite its lack of searchability, would be preferable over PyPache.

Max.


Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.

So far PyPache seems to be the winner. Terranium is second, Quetzalcoatl 
thrid.

Let's say this vote closes on Wednesday, and please send in +1's for one 
name - statements like "I like both <blank> and <blank>" are hard to 
account for.


On Fri, 18 May 2007, Clodoaldo wrote:

> +1 pypache
>
> 2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>>
>>  +1 on pypache
>> 
>> 
>
>
> -- 
> Clodoaldo Pinto Neto
>

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Clodoaldo <cl...@gmail.com>.
+1 pypache

2007/5/17, Daniel J. Popowich <dp...@comcast.net>:
>
>  +1 on pypache
>
>


-- 
Clodoaldo Pinto Neto

RE: TLP Name

Posted by "Daniel J. Popowich" <dp...@comcast.net>.
 +1 on pypache


RE: TLP Name

Posted by Scott Sanders <ss...@stonecobra.com>.
>How about this last minute entry as a place to keep our snake?
>
>Apache Terrarium

+1 on terrarium.apache.org

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On 5/16/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
> Quetzalcoatl

It's not *that* hard to say - and it's far and away my favorite.

Terrarium is the next best alternative I've seen so far.

My $.02.  -- justin

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Nick <ni...@dd.revealed.net>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi

I liked Pungi, but there is unfortunately another project out there with
that name (https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/pungi).  Quetzalcoatl
is a great Apache project name in that it's kind of related in a cultural
memory kind of way to the project ideas, but obscure enough to be completely
forgettable :)  I guess Scales also falls into that category, and it gets my
vote because it's easier to spell.

Nick

Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
On Thu, 17 May 2007, Jim Gallacher wrote:

> Quetzalcoatl is still my sentimental favourite.
>
> Perhaps I'm overly concerned with potential search problems for 
> Quetzalcoatl, considering that Google is pretty good at figuring out 
> spelling errors. Also the mod_python name will not disappear, as it'll 
> still be used as a subproject name, so people can find us that way.

Yep. I don't think the TLP itself will be searched for, it's always going 
to be subprojects, and most likely over time a search for "Apache Python" 
will take you there (like it does for mod_python currently). And of course 
there is the spelling correction.

Grisha

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> I like Quetzalcoatl and PyPache. 

Quetzalcoatl is still my sentimental favourite.

Perhaps I'm overly concerned with potential search problems for 
Quetzalcoatl, considering that Google is pretty good at figuring out 
spelling errors. Also the mod_python name will not disappear, as it'll 
still be used as a subproject name, so people can find us that way.

> Terrarium seemed nice at first,

The potential for a nice logo is also much greater for Quetzalcoatl than 
  for Terrarium (unless you find glass boxes really interesting).

> then the ophidiophobia in me took over. (Nobody suggested ophis, btw..)

Take a look at the first Google hit for ophis. I don't think we want to 
compete with that site for attention. :)

Jim

> 
> On Wed, 16 May 2007, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
>>
>> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
>>
>> PythonScript
>> Pythonidae
>> PyPache
>> pythonalia
>> Quetzalcoatl
>> Asphyxia
>> Scales
>> Pythonistas
>> PigeonPy
>> Pungi
>>
>> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) 
>> please respond with the one they like most and I will compile the 
>> results?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Grisha
>>
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
I like Quetzalcoatl and PyPache. Terrarium seemed nice at first, but then 
the ophidiophobia in me took over. (Nobody suggested ophis, btw..)

On Wed, 16 May 2007, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:

>
> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
>
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi
>
> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please 
> respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Grisha
>

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Ron Reisor <ro...@udel.edu>.
+1 Quetzalcoatl


Ron Reisor <ro...@udel.edu> (RWR3)
University of Delaware Information Technologies/Network and Systems Services
Computing Center/192 South Chapel Street/Newark DE, 19716
pgp finger print: 0D 73 06 6F D3 6A 99 D3  F5 D5 6E FF 3B B9 7C 2C

Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
+1 Terrarium

I've mulled this one over and it's growing on me.

Jim


Jim Gallacher wrote:
> How about this last minute entry as a place to keep our snake?
> 
> Apache Terrarium
>     
> Jim
> 
> Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
>>
>> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
>>
>> PythonScript
>> Pythonidae
>> PyPache
>> pythonalia
>> Quetzalcoatl
>> Asphyxia
>> Scales
>> Pythonistas
>> PigeonPy
>> Pungi
>>
>> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) 
>> please respond with the one they like most and I will compile the 
>> results?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Grisha
>>
> 
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Yann Ramin <at...@stackworks.net>.
I like this one, +1 for Terrarium

Jim Gallacher wrote:
> How about this last minute entry as a place to keep our snake?
> 
> Apache Terrarium
>     
> Jim
> 
> Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
>>
>> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
>>
>> PythonScript
>> Pythonidae
>> PyPache
>> pythonalia
>> Quetzalcoatl
>> Asphyxia
>> Scales
>> Pythonistas
>> PigeonPy
>> Pungi
>>
>> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) 
>> please respond with the one they like most and I will compile the 
>> results?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Grisha
>>
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
How about this last minute entry as a place to keep our snake?

Apache Terrarium
	
Jim

Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
> 
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi
> 
> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please 
> respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Grisha
> 


Re: TLP Name

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> So I think we've got (in no particular order):
> 
> PythonScript
> Pythonidae
> PyPache
> pythonalia
> Quetzalcoatl
> Asphyxia
> Scales
> Pythonistas
> PigeonPy
> Pungi
> 
> Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please 
> respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?

Scales +0

My biggest concern with Apache Scales is that it may be a little too 
generic for searching as it is a pretty common phrase, as in "Apache 
scales well...". It's even worse for searching on "scales" alone.

I like Quetzalcoatl best but I really think it would be a horrible 
choice as it'll be difficult for people to remember, spell and pronounce.

Perhaps we should solicit ideas from the mod_python user list, or even 
the c.l.p newsgroup?

Jim

TLP Name

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
So I think we've got (in no particular order):

PythonScript
Pythonidae
PyPache
pythonalia
Quetzalcoatl
Asphyxia
Scales
Pythonistas
PigeonPy
Pungi

Would people (ANYONE here on the list, yes, that includes *YOU*) please 
respond with the one they like most and I will compile the results?

Thanks!

Grisha

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com>.
Not necessarily wanting to see this discussion die again, how about
just calling it the 'PythonScript' project. Name means it is still
obvious and I can't see how we would have issues with a composite name
like that as far as PSF trademark goes, but then could be wrong.

On 11/05/07, Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/05/07, Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca> wrote:
> > I like that one. Another, less scientific, possibility might be
> > pythonalia (python + miscellania).
>
> That reminds me of news broadcasts where they talk about police
> arresting people in possession of drug paraphernalia. :-)
>
> In a similar extension though, there is always the 'Apache Pythonistas' project.
>
> Where people have mentioned the feather, may be we can call it
> 'PigeonPy'. This is sort of having a slight dig at the 'CherryPy'
> symbolism if you get it.
>
> For a really obscure reference, try 'Pungi'. I'll let you all work out
> that one by yourself.
>
> Graham
>

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 10/05/07, Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca> wrote:
> I like that one. Another, less scientific, possibility might be
> pythonalia (python + miscellania).

That reminds me of news broadcasts where they talk about police
arresting people in possession of drug paraphernalia. :-)

In a similar extension though, there is always the 'Apache Pythonistas' project.

Where people have mentioned the feather, may be we can call it
'PigeonPy'. This is sort of having a slight dig at the 'CherryPy'
symbolism if you get it.

For a really obscure reference, try 'Pungi'. I'll let you all work out
that one by yourself.

Graham

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Graham Dumpleton wrote:
> On 10/05/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 1. "Python" is not a good name for this project because "Apache Python"
>> will just be too confusing and probably infringes on a PSF trademark. So
>> if you have any creative suggestions, send them in, don't be shy, even if
>> you think they may sound a little stupid at first :-)
> 
> How about 'Asphyxia'. This being the outcome if a Python gets you. :-)
> 
> Since the reason for the TLP being for Python rather than just
> mod_python was the idea there might be more than just the mod_python
> project, ie., other Apache/Python modules, then maybe call it
> 'Pythonidae'. This is the more technical name for the family of snakes
> which people call Pythons. Not sure how you are meant to pronounce
> that though.

I like that one. Another, less scientific, possibility might be 
pythonalia (python + miscellania).

I wonder if we might still run into trademark issues if we still use a 
word containing python?

Jim

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Graham Dumpleton <gr...@gmail.com>.
On 10/05/07, Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy <gr...@apache.org> wrote:
> 1. "Python" is not a good name for this project because "Apache Python"
> will just be too confusing and probably infringes on a PSF trademark. So
> if you have any creative suggestions, send them in, don't be shy, even if
> you think they may sound a little stupid at first :-)

How about 'Asphyxia'. This being the outcome if a Python gets you. :-)

Since the reason for the TLP being for Python rather than just
mod_python was the idea there might be more than just the mod_python
project, ie., other Apache/Python modules, then maybe call it
'Pythonidae'. This is the more technical name for the family of snakes
which people call Pythons. Not sure how you are meant to pronounce
that though.

Graham

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jorey Bump <li...@joreybump.com>.
Mike Looijmans wrote:
>> Apache includes a feather in its logo, and Python is associated with a 
>> snake. "Quetzalcoatl" means "feathered snake" and does not appear to 
>> be used by any other software project.
> 
> Which I can fully understand, because "Quetzalcoatl" is harder to 
> pronounce than the 16 character password for the mainframe that was 
> generated using /dev/random.

I admit I like the logic more than the name itself.

> I liked "Asphyxia" though. Makes a nice password too.

To me, "Asphyxia" has *extremely* negative connotations, and really 
stretches the limits of clever association.

Another name that comes to mind is "Scales", playing on the Apache 
feather motif, but I fear it will be lost in search results among pages 
that discuss how well "Apache scales".


Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Mike Looijmans <nl...@natlab.research.philips.com>.
> Apache includes a feather in its logo, and Python is associated with a 
> snake. "Quetzalcoatl" means "feathered snake" and does not appear to be 
> used by any other software project.

Which I can fully understand, because "Quetzalcoatl" is harder to pronounce than the 16 character 
password for the mainframe that was generated using /dev/random.

I liked "Asphyxia" though. Makes a nice password too.

Mike.



Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jorey Bump <li...@joreybump.com>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:

> 1. "Python" is not a good name for this project because "Apache Python" 
> will just be too confusing and probably infringes on a PSF trademark. So 
> if you have any creative suggestions, send them in, don't be shy, even 
> if you think they may sound a little stupid at first :-)

Apache includes a feather in its logo, and Python is associated with a 
snake. "Quetzalcoatl" means "feathered snake" and does not appear to be 
used by any other software project.


Quetzalcoatl

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
Just so that many of you do not wonder "We are a TLP - where is it???"

Everything is well. :)

It's just turned out that selecting "python.apache.org" as the main 
destination for it is not something that everyone is in agreement on and 
quite a bit of discussion had to take place, and we're still in the 
process, but it will all hopefully be resolved soon now.

Grisha




Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
OK, now that we have a name, I'd like to make sure we agree on what we're 
going to submit to the board, namely that:

1. We'd like a TLP for the purpose of overseeing Python projects which 
includes mod_python.

2. We'd like to name this project Quetzalcoatl.

3. The initial PMC will be:

  Graham Dumpleton
  Justin Erenkrantz
  Jim Gallacher
  Nicolas Lehuen
  Gregory Trubetskoy

4. We'd like the TLP domain name to be python.apache.org.

(Am I missing any steps here?)

So if you have any issues with the above please respond by the end of this 
week, otherwise it means we all agree on this.

Grisha

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
Reviving this thread...

After some discussion on the Httpd PMC on this matter, I think we all 
agree that we would like to request a general Python TLP of the board. 
There are, however, two issues that need further discussion:

1. "Python" is not a good name for this project because "Apache Python" 
will just be too confusing and probably infringes on a PSF trademark. So 
if you have any creative suggestions, send them in, don't be shy, even if 
you think they may sound a little stupid at first :-)

2. The matter of who will be on the initial PMC and who will chair it. 
Based on previous responses to this thread, the initial PMC will look at 
least as follows:

Graham Dumpleton
Justin Erenkrantz
Jim Gallacher
Nicolas Lehuen
Gregory Trubetskoy

(Anyone else you think should be in the list - please step forward. I 
think a prerequisite is prior ASF experience - committer, PMC member or 
ASF member or preferably all three)

I volunteer to do the chair role - which basically means watching what we 
do and keeping it organized and reporting/recording it.

After some discussion I will summarize what we arrive at and if we all 
agree, it will be proposed to the Httpd PMC, who will then vote on it and 
then we will submit it to the board.

Grisha

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Jim Gallacher wrote:

> Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
>> 
>> I am for making mod_python a TLP, and I also support Jim's suggestion of 
>> making it more general. So a late +1.
>>

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007, Jim Gallacher wrote:

> Although migrating modpython.org to the Apache infrastructure may not be 
> related to being a TLP, it would make sense to do it in conjunction with 
> that change. I'd be happy to coordinate that move and I'm sure I can 
> recruit some help.

My first reaction was - why wait?, but I seem to recall now that the 
show-stopper was that modpython.org required its own zone/jail (virtual 
server basically) and that the policy is (or was at the time) to only 
allow zones for TLP's, so it may have to be TLP first, relocate 
modpython.org second.

I personally have no objections to moving it like tomorrow :)

Grisha

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by Jim Gallacher <jp...@jgassociates.ca>.
Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy wrote:
> 
> Sorry - for technical reasons (serious home server crash) I missed this 
> thread entirely, and for the same reason i'm lagging on the releasing 
> mod_python that's ready to go.
> 
> I am for making mod_python a TLP, and I also support Jim's suggestion of 
> making it more general. So a late +1.
> 
> I didn't see any suggestion of who the person interfacing with the board 
> would be - i'd be happy to be it, as with my current schedule i'm 
> probably only good for "administrative" tasks of this sort anyhow.
> 
> P.S. Also agree with Graham re modpython.org site - but that's an issue 
> not related to python being TLP, it's just that some day someone needs 
> to do the work of migrating the mailing list and its archive and the 
> site to apache infra.

Although migrating modpython.org to the Apache infrastructure may not be 
related to being a TLP, it would make sense to do it in conjunction with 
that change. I'd be happy to coordinate that move and I'm sure I can 
recruit some help.

Jim

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Gregory (Grisha) Trubetskoy" <gr...@apache.org>.
Sorry - for technical reasons (serious home server crash) I missed this 
thread entirely, and for the same reason i'm lagging on the releasing 
mod_python that's ready to go.

I am for making mod_python a TLP, and I also support Jim's suggestion of 
making it more general. So a late +1.

I didn't see any suggestion of who the person interfacing with the board 
would be - i'd be happy to be it, as with my current schedule i'm probably 
only good for "administrative" tasks of this sort anyhow.

P.S. Also agree with Graham re modpython.org site - but that's an issue 
not related to python being TLP, it's just that some day someone needs to 
do the work of migrating the mailing list and its archive and the site to 
apache infra.

Grisha


On Sun, 11 Feb 2007, Roy T. Fielding wrote:

> On Feb 7, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>> The vote shall be open 72 hours or until all of the mod_python
>> core group members have voted, whichever is earlier.
>
> Well, I didn't get enough responses, so this will have to wait
> until after folks figure out what to do next.
>
> ....Roy
>

Re: [VOTE] does mod_python want to be a TLP

Posted by "Roy T. Fielding" <fi...@gbiv.com>.
On Feb 7, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Roy T. Fielding wrote:
> The vote shall be open 72 hours or until all of the mod_python
> core group members have voted, whichever is earlier.

Well, I didn't get enough responses, so this will have to wait
until after folks figure out what to do next.

....Roy