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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Mike Buzzard <mi...@earth-focus.org.uk> on 2012/07/26 23:40:22 UTC
Improving the Open Office Toolbars
Hi
I would really like it if you could make Open Office's Toolbars better:
better, even than any toolbars, ribbons, etc!
I don't like Microsoft's Ribbon system!
I have tried to follow your efforts to make Toolbars better, but not
succeeded.
However, Corel (in CorelDraw, PhotoPaint) have had a system for over a
decade which very nearly solves the problem. Have a try with CorelDraw: the
toolbar changes depending on what you are doing, so nearly all the commands
available at any time are the ones on the toolbar that is showing. It's so
simple!
It would be great if you could try to make it work with Open Office.
By the way, I have not put this idea forward before because I have not found
a way of doing it - every way of commenting seems to be so complicated.
Best wishes to all
Mike Buzzard
Re: Improving the Open Office Toolbars
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG02 - see additional comments inline.
On Jul 28, 2012, at 9:29 PM, drew jensen <dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 14:53 +0200, RGB ES wrote:
>> 2012/7/28 Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>:
>>> KG01 - see comments inline.
>>>
>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:40 AM, "Mike Buzzard" <mi...@earth-focus.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I would really like it if you could make Open Office's Toolbars better:
>>>> better, even than any toolbars, ribbons, etc!
>>>
>>> KG01 - Indeed. Over time, toolbars can begin to feel overloaded.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't like Microsoft's Ribbon system!
>>>>
>>>> I have tried to follow your efforts to make Toolbars better, but not
>>>> succeeded.
>>>
>>> KG01 - What does "better" mean to you? No wrong answers here. I'm looking to work on the toolbars in the next release and am gathering feedback.
>>>
>>>> However, Corel (in CorelDraw, PhotoPaint) have had a system for over a
>>>> decade which very nearly solves the problem. Have a try with CorelDraw: the
>>>> toolbar changes depending on what you are doing, so nearly all the commands
>>>> available at any time are the ones on the toolbar that is showing. It's so
>>>> simple!
>>>
>>> KG01 - Yes, CorelDRAW had contextual toolbars back in version 7. There were common toolbars that persisted in the workspace, then toolbars that would appear contextual to the selection. For example, selection text would evoke a text properties toolbar. This is a pattern that AOO could explore to reduce complexity, minimize toolbar icon overload and present commands that are contextual to the selected element.
>>
>> OOo had (and AOO has) contextual toolbars since 2.0. For example, the
>> table toolbar on Writer will pop up only when you put the cursor
>> inside a table or the picture toolbar will be visible only when you
>> select a picture. By default, they tend to appear on not so useful
>> places, but that can be easily fixed by anchoring them.
>
> Right, but I believe it is different (and makes a lot of difference) in
> AOO what is in the toolbar is static, the whole bar is either displayed,
> enabled or disable, or hidden - I believe in Coral it is the toolbar
> buttons that change in the toolbar
KG02 - Indeed, in the CorelDRAW contextual toolbars, the common actions persisted, while contextual toolbars where presented depending on the active selection.
KG02 - Toolbar command clustering is the toughest part.
KG02 - Actually, I was on the design team that created the context toolbars in DRAW version 7.
KG02 - I suppose that our side task bars provide a similar experience. Any exploration of toolbars, should include the task panes. More broadly, we could explore how all actions are surfaced - contextual, proximate and on demand. A unified experience requires a unified command/action strategy.
>>
>>>>
>>>> It would be great if you could try to make it work with Open Office.
>>>
>>> KG01 - We could use your help. Watch the UX wiki for more on this topic and other UI enhancements.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I have not put this idea forward before because I have not found
>>>> a way of doing it - every way of commenting seems to be so complicated.
>>>
>>> KG01 - Again, no wrong answers. What would be your ideal way to share product ideas and feedback?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes to all
>>>>
>>>> Mike Buzzard
>>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Improving the Open Office Toolbars
Posted by drew jensen <dr...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 14:53 +0200, RGB ES wrote:
> 2012/7/28 Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>:
> > KG01 - see comments inline.
> >
> > On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:40 AM, "Mike Buzzard" <mi...@earth-focus.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> I would really like it if you could make Open Office's Toolbars better:
> >> better, even than any toolbars, ribbons, etc!
> >
> > KG01 - Indeed. Over time, toolbars can begin to feel overloaded.
> >
> >>
> >> I don't like Microsoft's Ribbon system!
> >>
> >> I have tried to follow your efforts to make Toolbars better, but not
> >> succeeded.
> >
> > KG01 - What does "better" mean to you? No wrong answers here. I'm looking to work on the toolbars in the next release and am gathering feedback.
> >
> >> However, Corel (in CorelDraw, PhotoPaint) have had a system for over a
> >> decade which very nearly solves the problem. Have a try with CorelDraw: the
> >> toolbar changes depending on what you are doing, so nearly all the commands
> >> available at any time are the ones on the toolbar that is showing. It's so
> >> simple!
> >
> > KG01 - Yes, CorelDRAW had contextual toolbars back in version 7. There were common toolbars that persisted in the workspace, then toolbars that would appear contextual to the selection. For example, selection text would evoke a text properties toolbar. This is a pattern that AOO could explore to reduce complexity, minimize toolbar icon overload and present commands that are contextual to the selected element.
>
> OOo had (and AOO has) contextual toolbars since 2.0. For example, the
> table toolbar on Writer will pop up only when you put the cursor
> inside a table or the picture toolbar will be visible only when you
> select a picture. By default, they tend to appear on not so useful
> places, but that can be easily fixed by anchoring them.
Right, but I believe it is different (and makes a lot of difference) in
AOO what is in the toolbar is static, the whole bar is either displayed,
enabled or disable, or hidden - I believe in Coral it is the toolbar
buttons that change in the toolbars.
>
>
> >>
> >> It would be great if you could try to make it work with Open Office.
> >
> > KG01 - We could use your help. Watch the UX wiki for more on this topic and other UI enhancements.
> >>
> >> By the way, I have not put this idea forward before because I have not found
> >> a way of doing it - every way of commenting seems to be so complicated.
> >
> > KG01 - Again, no wrong answers. What would be your ideal way to share product ideas and feedback?
> >>
> >> Best wishes to all
> >>
> >> Mike Buzzard
> >>
> >
Re: Improving the Open Office Toolbars
Posted by RGB ES <rg...@gmail.com>.
2012/7/28 Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>:
> KG01 - see comments inline.
>
> On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:40 AM, "Mike Buzzard" <mi...@earth-focus.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I would really like it if you could make Open Office's Toolbars better:
>> better, even than any toolbars, ribbons, etc!
>
> KG01 - Indeed. Over time, toolbars can begin to feel overloaded.
>
>>
>> I don't like Microsoft's Ribbon system!
>>
>> I have tried to follow your efforts to make Toolbars better, but not
>> succeeded.
>
> KG01 - What does "better" mean to you? No wrong answers here. I'm looking to work on the toolbars in the next release and am gathering feedback.
>
>> However, Corel (in CorelDraw, PhotoPaint) have had a system for over a
>> decade which very nearly solves the problem. Have a try with CorelDraw: the
>> toolbar changes depending on what you are doing, so nearly all the commands
>> available at any time are the ones on the toolbar that is showing. It's so
>> simple!
>
> KG01 - Yes, CorelDRAW had contextual toolbars back in version 7. There were common toolbars that persisted in the workspace, then toolbars that would appear contextual to the selection. For example, selection text would evoke a text properties toolbar. This is a pattern that AOO could explore to reduce complexity, minimize toolbar icon overload and present commands that are contextual to the selected element.
OOo had (and AOO has) contextual toolbars since 2.0. For example, the
table toolbar on Writer will pop up only when you put the cursor
inside a table or the picture toolbar will be visible only when you
select a picture. By default, they tend to appear on not so useful
places, but that can be easily fixed by anchoring them.
>>
>> It would be great if you could try to make it work with Open Office.
>
> KG01 - We could use your help. Watch the UX wiki for more on this topic and other UI enhancements.
>>
>> By the way, I have not put this idea forward before because I have not found
>> a way of doing it - every way of commenting seems to be so complicated.
>
> KG01 - Again, no wrong answers. What would be your ideal way to share product ideas and feedback?
>>
>> Best wishes to all
>>
>> Mike Buzzard
>>
>
Re: Improving the Open Office Toolbars
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG01 - see comments inline.
On Jul 27, 2012, at 5:40 AM, "Mike Buzzard" <mi...@earth-focus.org.uk> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I would really like it if you could make Open Office's Toolbars better:
> better, even than any toolbars, ribbons, etc!
KG01 - Indeed. Over time, toolbars can begin to feel overloaded.
>
> I don't like Microsoft's Ribbon system!
>
> I have tried to follow your efforts to make Toolbars better, but not
> succeeded.
KG01 - What does "better" mean to you? No wrong answers here. I'm looking to work on the toolbars in the next release and am gathering feedback.
> However, Corel (in CorelDraw, PhotoPaint) have had a system for over a
> decade which very nearly solves the problem. Have a try with CorelDraw: the
> toolbar changes depending on what you are doing, so nearly all the commands
> available at any time are the ones on the toolbar that is showing. It's so
> simple!
KG01 - Yes, CorelDRAW had contextual toolbars back in version 7. There were common toolbars that persisted in the workspace, then toolbars that would appear contextual to the selection. For example, selection text would evoke a text properties toolbar. This is a pattern that AOO could explore to reduce complexity, minimize toolbar icon overload and present commands that are contextual to the selected element.
>
> It would be great if you could try to make it work with Open Office.
KG01 - We could use your help. Watch the UX wiki for more on this topic and other UI enhancements.
>
> By the way, I have not put this idea forward before because I have not found
> a way of doing it - every way of commenting seems to be so complicated.
KG01 - Again, no wrong answers. What would be your ideal way to share product ideas and feedback?
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> Mike Buzzard
>