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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> on 2014/06/11 22:38:45 UTC
Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Hi!
first of all, let me start with, once again, expressing
tremendous gratitude to our report managers: John
and Marvin. Solid (and at times not quite appreciated)
work!
One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
there's a value in having them?
Collecting these metrics is probably the most time consuming
part of the report preparation. I could see if that would be
enough of a reason to drop them. Unless, of course,
somebody feels strong the other way around (and hopefully
is willing to suggest ways of automating the task).
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by "John D. Ament" <jo...@gmail.com>.
In my honest opinion. Last month, I shepherd HDT. They had a 13 day
window and to me this was something that needed to be visualized. I
think the metrics adds clarity to everyone about a problem around
votes.
John
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
>>> metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
>>> there's a value in having them?
>
> Here are the metrics that were provided in the May report:
>
> It took 2-13 days for the third IPMC vote to arrive.
>
> Release VOTE start Third IMPC +1 Days
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> phoenix-3.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
> phoenix-4.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
> tez-0.4.0-incubating April 01 April 04 4
> hdt-0.0.1.incubating April 18 May 01 13
> apache-vxquery-0.3-incubating April 15 April 17 3
> twill-0.2.0-incubating April 03 April 07 4
> metamodel-4.1.0-incubating May 03 May 04 2
>
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
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>
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
Good point. Thanks for clarifying.
Yes. I think that those metrics are an excellent measure of community
health.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:55 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
> >> metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
> >> there's a value in having them?
>
> Here are the metrics that were provided in the May report:
>
> It took 2-13 days for the third IPMC vote to arrive.
>
> Release VOTE start Third IMPC +1 Days
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> phoenix-3.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
> phoenix-4.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
> tez-0.4.0-incubating April 01 April 04 4
> hdt-0.0.1.incubating April 18 May 01 13
> apache-vxquery-0.3-incubating April 15 April 17 3
> twill-0.2.0-incubating April 03 April 07 4
> metamodel-4.1.0-incubating May 03 May 04 2
>
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:50 PM, Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
>> metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
>> there's a value in having them?
Here are the metrics that were provided in the May report:
It took 2-13 days for the third IPMC vote to arrive.
Release VOTE start Third IMPC +1 Days
---------------------------------------------------------------------
phoenix-3.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
phoenix-4.0.0-incubating April 01 April 03 3
tez-0.4.0-incubating April 01 April 04 4
hdt-0.0.1.incubating April 18 May 01 13
apache-vxquery-0.3-incubating April 15 April 17 3
twill-0.2.0-incubating April 03 April 07 4
metamodel-4.1.0-incubating May 03 May 04 2
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Ted Dunning <te...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
> metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
> there's a value in having them?
>
What metrics do you mean?
The metrics that really matter are up-take of the new version. We can't
really see that.
The metrics that are easy to get (LoC and such) are generally pretty silly
and vacuous.
Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Jake Farrell <jf...@apache.org> wrote:
> Why not take them from the voting status page [1], and looks like its
> started to fall behind again. I'll go through and clean up again over the
> next couple days
IMO, the voting status page has achieved its purpose and should be
retired. Many thanks to those who have worked on it over the years.
I don't think the information it provides would be accurate enough to
rely on for reporting, since the day that the third IPMC +1 arrives
and the day that the email is sent which convinces the tool that the
vote has closed may be very far apart.
Marvin Humphrey
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by abiola balogun <a_...@me.com>.
No
> On Jun 12, 2014, at 8:13, Jake Farrell <jf...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hey Roman
> Why not take them from the voting status page [1], and looks like its
> started to fall behind again. I'll go through and clean up again over the
> next couple days
>
> -Jake
>
> [1]: http://people.apache.org/~brane/incubator/votes.html
>
>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> first of all, let me start with, once again, expressing
>>>> tremendous gratitude to our report managers: John
>>>> and Marvin. Solid (and at times not quite appreciated)
>>>> work!
>>>
>>> Please add Joe Brockmeier to that list. Thanks for joining us, Joe!
>>
>> Indeed!
>>
>>> I have no objection to including the stats if someone feels strongly
>>> enough to compile them, but I think we should ensure we're channeling
>>> enough energy into educating podlings being underserved by the IPMC
>>> that there is a way for them to take control of their destiny.
>>
>> I'll use this as a guiding principle for this month' report then. I'll
>> be submitting at around 10pm PST tonight. If anybody has spare
>> cycles to collect these metrics -- I'd love to review and submit
>> those in the final report.
>>
>> IOW, from now on -- they will be considered optional.
>>
>>> PS: Roman, if Joe doesn't get around to adding a blurb about ODF
>>> Toolkit's release using the alternate process before you submit the
>>> report to the Board, please add one yourself. (See
>>> <http://s.apache.org/q7>.)
>>
>> Done!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Roman.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Jake Farrell <jf...@apache.org>.
Hey Roman
Why not take them from the voting status page [1], and looks like its
started to fall behind again. I'll go through and clean up again over the
next couple days
-Jake
[1]: http://people.apache.org/~brane/incubator/votes.html
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> first of all, let me start with, once again, expressing
> >> tremendous gratitude to our report managers: John
> >> and Marvin. Solid (and at times not quite appreciated)
> >> work!
> >
> > Please add Joe Brockmeier to that list. Thanks for joining us, Joe!
>
> Indeed!
>
> > I have no objection to including the stats if someone feels strongly
> > enough to compile them, but I think we should ensure we're channeling
> > enough energy into educating podlings being underserved by the IPMC
> > that there is a way for them to take control of their destiny.
>
> I'll use this as a guiding principle for this month' report then. I'll
> be submitting at around 10pm PST tonight. If anybody has spare
> cycles to collect these metrics -- I'd love to review and submit
> those in the final report.
>
> IOW, from now on -- they will be considered optional.
>
> > PS: Roman, if Joe doesn't get around to adding a blurb about ODF
> > Toolkit's release using the alternate process before you submit the
> > report to the Board, please add one yourself. (See
> > <http://s.apache.org/q7>.)
>
> Done!
>
> Thanks,
> Roman.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> first of all, let me start with, once again, expressing
>> tremendous gratitude to our report managers: John
>> and Marvin. Solid (and at times not quite appreciated)
>> work!
>
> Please add Joe Brockmeier to that list. Thanks for joining us, Joe!
Indeed!
> I have no objection to including the stats if someone feels strongly
> enough to compile them, but I think we should ensure we're channeling
> enough energy into educating podlings being underserved by the IPMC
> that there is a way for them to take control of their destiny.
I'll use this as a guiding principle for this month' report then. I'll
be submitting at around 10pm PST tonight. If anybody has spare
cycles to collect these metrics -- I'd love to review and submit
those in the final report.
IOW, from now on -- they will be considered optional.
> PS: Roman, if Joe doesn't get around to adding a blurb about ODF
> Toolkit's release using the alternate process before you submit the
> report to the Board, please add one yourself. (See
> <http://s.apache.org/q7>.)
Done!
Thanks,
Roman.
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Re: Do we still need release metrics as part of the report?
Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 1:38 PM, Roman Shaposhnik <rv...@apache.org> wrote:
> first of all, let me start with, once again, expressing
> tremendous gratitude to our report managers: John
> and Marvin. Solid (and at times not quite appreciated)
> work!
Please add Joe Brockmeier to that list. Thanks for joining us, Joe!
> One thing that I noticed in the report is that the detailed
> metrics around releases are missing. Do folks think
> there's a value in having them?
I started compiling those stats last year in order to make the case
for release reform. It wasn't easy, but we got reform done last
November/December. So from my standpoint, the metrics have served
their purpose.
Now, when the IPMC fails to supply timely release votes (as it
inevitably will because the underlying problem is structural), I think
what we should do is shunt podlings towards the alternative voting
process much sooner than we have been.
> Collecting these metrics is probably the most time consuming
> part of the report preparation. I could see if that would be
> enough of a reason to drop them. Unless, of course,
> somebody feels strong the other way around (and hopefully
> is willing to suggest ways of automating the task).
I have no objection to including the stats if someone feels strongly
enough to compile them, but I think we should ensure we're channeling
enough energy into educating podlings being underserved by the IPMC
that there is a way for them to take control of their destiny.
PS: Roman, if Joe doesn't get around to adding a blurb about ODF
Toolkit's release using the alternate process before you submit the
report to the Board, please add one yourself. (See
<http://s.apache.org/q7>.)
Marvin Humphrey
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