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Posted to users@subversion.apache.org by Einar Indridason <ei...@f-prot.com> on 2005/07/14 10:37:20 UTC
Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Hi folks. I'm just starting to take a look at Subversion. So far the
following questions have popped up into my head.
I hope I'm not stepping into a dangerous area regarding those questions?
1) SQL backend? There has been talk about an SQL backend for some years
now (according to the mailing lists at tigris...). For those that don't
want to install a fully fledged SQL database server, have the SubVersion
people thought about "SQLite"?
(Or, what about a "generic" SQL backend, where you can plug in your SQL
server of choice? For example the "dbi" project.)
(When one reads the FAQ for SubVersion, the amount of space allocated to
running and maintaining the Berkeley Database is ... worrysome.)
2) The "HACKING.TXT" file, in the distribution.... In that file, you
specify the indent style to use... Eh... Why on earth did you
choose the GNU style?
peace and cheers,
--
EinarI@f-prot.com
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the
style?
Posted by Christopher Ness <ch...@nesser.org>.
On Thu, 2005-07-14 at 15:30 +0000, Einar Indridason wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 10:20:33AM -0500, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
> > >2) The "HACKING.TXT" file, in the distribution.... In that file, you
> > >specify the indent style to use... Eh... Why on earth did you
> > >choose the GNU style?
> >
> > Eh... because it's good?
>
> Eh... then I need to learn the correct switches to use with indent, to
> convert my style to GNU style (using GNU indent :-)
Are you guys making fun of us Canucks here or what? Eh. ;)
From the `indent` man page:
"As of version 1.2, the default style of GNU indent is
the GNU style."
Chris
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McMaster University
summer
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by Daniel Patterson <da...@danpat.net>.
David Weintraub wrote:
> TeamTrack uses SQL to store it's version tree. The only benefit I see
> is to be able to say that they use SQL and you can store your
> repository under Oracle or MS-SQL Server.
One of the major benefits of having an SQL backend would actually
be the ease that some of the currently outstanding problems could
be solved. It's all about indexing.
With the FSFS backend, everything is pretty much optimised for
the current feature set. If you want suddenly, to support
"svn lsdecendents X", that'd be pretty inefficient to solve
with fsfs. A new index would be required and a whole swag of
new code. With an SQL backend you can formulate new queries to
create these kinds of features with relative ease. BDB sits
somewhere in the middle.
There is a diagram somewhere to this effect in the developer
docs....
daniel
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by David Weintraub <qa...@gmail.com>.
TeamTrack uses SQL to store it's version tree. The only benefit I see
is to be able to say that they use SQL and you can store your
repository under Oracle or MS-SQL Server.
In large corporate environments, this can be a selling point (Typical
Pointy Headed Manager's Comment: "Ooooh, SQL! That means it must be
good."). Plus, you have fewer backup headaches since databases in most
corporate environments are already backed up by the database team
while you have to beg the typical corporate IT team to backup your
stuff.
On 7/15/05, John <js...@ecclescollege.ac.uk> wrote:
> Kevin T. Broderick <kbroderick <at> smcvt.edu> writes:
>
> > With that said, I think that fsfs provides a reasonable option and
> > I'm not sure that a SQL backend would provide much in the way of
> > feature benefits for the current userbase.
>
> I wonder if relational db's are even suited to this type of task? Since a
> revision is made up of several combined deltas, it would create a vast amount
> of interdependancy between rows in the table. This doesn't seem good...!
>
> Like storing a tree in SQL, except even worse because it's not just the
> existance of rows that depend on each other (easy to fix with a trigger /
> ref integ) it's the actual content.
>
> Might also be nice to express deltas in some form of markup instead of
> opaque blobs. That way, at least notionally, they could be edited and
> changed via ad-hoc sql.
>
> If it could be made to work - wow!
>
> update xxx set yyy where revision = 100
>
> would implicitly redeltify all decendent nodes... LOL glad it's not on my
> job-list!
>
> John
>
>
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>
--
--
David Weintraub
qazwart@gmail.com
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by John <js...@ecclescollege.ac.uk>.
Kevin T. Broderick <kbroderick <at> smcvt.edu> writes:
> With that said, I think that fsfs provides a reasonable option and
> I'm not sure that a SQL backend would provide much in the way of
> feature benefits for the current userbase.
I wonder if relational db's are even suited to this type of task? Since a
revision is made up of several combined deltas, it would create a vast amount
of interdependancy between rows in the table. This doesn't seem good...!
Like storing a tree in SQL, except even worse because it's not just the
existance of rows that depend on each other (easy to fix with a trigger /
ref integ) it's the actual content.
Might also be nice to express deltas in some form of markup instead of
opaque blobs. That way, at least notionally, they could be edited and
changed via ad-hoc sql.
If it could be made to work - wow!
update xxx set yyy where revision = 100
would implicitly redeltify all decendent nodes... LOL glad it's not on my
job-list!
John
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by "Kevin T. Broderick" <kb...@smcvt.edu>.
On 15 Jul 2005, at 8:35 AM, John wrote:
> I'd vote for a db-neutral approach, since the main reason for doing
> this is a
> 'comfort' benefit for IT managers. SVN doesn't really need an SQL
> backend (fsfs
> rocks), but it would make a lot of people feel better if their
> repositories
> could be stored in regular SQL Server / Oracle / etc db's.
> Something they
> understand and feel comfortable with.
Personally, I can see another benefit: many, if not all organizations
already have databases of some sort (or of multiple sorts) in place.
That usually implies that the infrastructure around the database--
network, server, backups, admin tools, monitoring, etc--is also in
place. Making it easy to store the data there allows that
infrastructure to be leveraged for an SVN install, possibly lowering
the barrier to entry. (I realize that most organizations should also
have file-system backups in place, but my experience is that the
databases get more attention and are a bit easier to monitor. YMMV,
of course.)
With that said, I think that fsfs provides a reasonable option and
I'm not sure that a SQL backend would provide much in the way of
feature benefits for the current userbase.
Kevin Broderick / kbroderick@smcvt.edu
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by John <js...@ecclescollege.ac.uk>.
Einar Indridason <einari <at> f-prot.com> writes:
> I'm basically asking about the SQL stuff, because this is an itch that
> I'd like to scratch... I'm not promising anything, but I would be
> interested in helping if I can.
>
> That is, if there is an interest in doing an SQL backend stuff?
I'd vote for a db-neutral approach, since the main reason for doing this is a
'comfort' benefit for IT managers. SVN doesn't really need an SQL backend (fsfs
rocks), but it would make a lot of people feel better if their repositories
could be stored in regular SQL Server / Oracle / etc db's. Something they
understand and feel comfortable with.
If it just supported a single platform like SQLite or MySQL I would stick with
fsfs. No point swapping for people like me.
John
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by Einar Indridason <ei...@f-prot.com>.
On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 10:20:33AM -0500, Ben Collins-Sussman wrote:
>
> On Jul 14, 2005, at 5:37 AM, Einar Indridason wrote:
>
> >1) SQL backend? There has been talk about an SQL backend for some
> It's been discussed in the past. There's much abstraction work to be
> done, and even some design papers have been written. Search the list
> archives, you'll find quite a bit.
Ok, I'll do that.
> At the moment, however, it's not on anyone's immediate radar.
Ok. Just checking :-)
> >(When one reads the FAQ for SubVersion, the amount of space
> >allocated to
> >running and maintaining the Berkeley Database is ... worrysome.)
>
> Well, you certainly aren't forced to use BDB, you can use FSFS instead.
Yes, that is certainly a possibility.
> >2) The "HACKING.TXT" file, in the distribution.... In that file, you
> >specify the indent style to use... Eh... Why on earth did you
> >choose the GNU style?
>
> Eh... because it's good?
Eh... then I need to learn the correct switches to use with indent, to
convert my style to GNU style (using GNU indent :-)
> That's like asking someone why he uses [emacs|vi]. :-)
*grin* Let's not go there :-)
I'm basically asking about the SQL stuff, because this is an itch that
I'd like to scratch... I'm not promising anything, but I would be
interested in helping if I can.
That is, if there is an interest in doing an SQL backend stuff?
Cheers, and thanks,
--
EinarI@f-prot.com
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Re: Subversion Newbie thoughts: Database Backend, SQL, and the style?
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Jul 14, 2005, at 5:37 AM, Einar Indridason wrote:
>
> 1) SQL backend? There has been talk about an SQL backend for some
> years
> now (according to the mailing lists at tigris...). For those that
> don't
> want to install a fully fledged SQL database server, have the
> SubVersion
> people thought about "SQLite"?
It's been discussed in the past. There's much abstraction work to be
done, and even some design papers have been written. Search the list
archives, you'll find quite a bit.
At the moment, however, it's not on anyone's immediate radar.
>
> (When one reads the FAQ for SubVersion, the amount of space
> allocated to
> running and maintaining the Berkeley Database is ... worrysome.)
>
Well, you certainly aren't forced to use BDB, you can use FSFS instead.
>
> 2) The "HACKING.TXT" file, in the distribution.... In that file, you
> specify the indent style to use... Eh... Why on earth did you
> choose the GNU style?
Eh... because it's good?
That's like asking someone why he uses [emacs|vi]. :-)
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Re: Simple svn move question
Posted by Michael W Thelen <mi...@pietdepsi.com>.
Michael L Brown wrote:
> Thanks.
>
> Exactly what I was hoping for. I saw the URL -> URL example but didn't
> know for sure if there was a limitation as to how far up the tree it could
> go.
Nope, any directory is just like any other directory in the repository.
The fact that we call some "trunk", "branches", and "tags" is just a
convention. Subversion doesn't treat any of these directories specially
in any way. You could rename "trunk" to "hooglefritz" if you wanted,
and Subversion would gladly do it. :-)
--
Michael W Thelen
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with
potatoes. -- Douglas Adams
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Re: Simple svn move question
Posted by Michael L Brown <mi...@philips.com>.
Thanks.
Exactly what I was hoping for. I saw the URL -> URL example but didn't
know for sure if there was a limitation as to how far up the tree it could
go.
MB
--
Mike Brown (Michael.L.Brown@Philips.com)
Lotus Bloats: Michael L Brown/MSN/MS/PHILIPS
Philips/ADAC, Madison, WI
Desk: 608-288-6969 Fax: 608-298-2101
PMS direct: 164-6969
You design it, I'll build it!
Ben Collins-Sussman
07/15/2005 09:42 AM
To
Michael L Brown/MSN/MS/PHILIPS@PHILIPS
cc
users@subversion.tigris.org
Subject
Re: Simple svn move question
Classification
On Jul 15, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Michael L Brown wrote:
> I'm interested in renaming a couple of branches. Basically I want
> Branch-A to become Branch-C and Branch-B to become Branch-A.
>
> Will "svn move" let me do that? From what I see in the book, it
> appears
> that one can only rename stuff inside of a trunk or branch.
>
$ svn mv URL-A URL-C -m "first rename"
$ svn mv URL-B URL-A -m "second rename"
No working copy required, even.
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Re: Simple svn move question
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Jul 15, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Michael L Brown wrote:
> I'm interested in renaming a couple of branches. Basically I want
> Branch-A to become Branch-C and Branch-B to become Branch-A.
>
> Will "svn move" let me do that? From what I see in the book, it
> appears
> that one can only rename stuff inside of a trunk or branch.
>
$ svn mv URL-A URL-C -m "first rename"
$ svn mv URL-B URL-A -m "second rename"
No working copy required, even.
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Re: Simple svn move question
Posted by kf...@collab.net.
Michael, your post appeared in an unrelated thread. Please read:
http://subversion.tigris.org/mailing-list-guidelines.html#fresh-post
Thank you.
-Karl
Michael L Brown <mi...@philips.com> writes:
> I'm interested in renaming a couple of branches. Basically I want
> Branch-A to become Branch-C and Branch-B to become Branch-A.
>
> Will "svn move" let me do that? From what I see in the book, it appears
> that one can only rename stuff inside of a trunk or branch.
>
> MB
> --
> Mike Brown (Michael.L.Brown@Philips.com)
> Lotus Bloats: Michael L Brown/MSN/MS/PHILIPS
> Philips/ADAC, Madison, WI
> Desk: 608-288-6969 Fax: 608-298-2101
> PMS direct: 164-6969
> You design it, I'll build it!
>
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Simple svn move question
Posted by Michael L Brown <mi...@philips.com>.
I'm interested in renaming a couple of branches. Basically I want
Branch-A to become Branch-C and Branch-B to become Branch-A.
Will "svn move" let me do that? From what I see in the book, it appears
that one can only rename stuff inside of a trunk or branch.
MB
--
Mike Brown (Michael.L.Brown@Philips.com)
Lotus Bloats: Michael L Brown/MSN/MS/PHILIPS
Philips/ADAC, Madison, WI
Desk: 608-288-6969 Fax: 608-298-2101
PMS direct: 164-6969
You design it, I'll build it!
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Re: File args
Posted by Ben Collins-Sussman <su...@collab.net>.
On Jul 15, 2005, at 9:02 AM, Mark Phippard wrote:
>
> The -F option always refers to the commit message.
Actually, no, I think 'svn propset' can suck a property value from -F
as well.
So we need to document this better.
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Re: File args
Posted by Mark Phippard <Ma...@softlanding.com>.
Miha Vitorovic <mv...@nil.si> wrote on 07/15/2005 09:54:34 AM:
> Now, I imagine, that with -F option it is possible to move many files in
a
> single "transaction" (and I want to move files, not folders), but
nowhere
> it is possible to discover if (1) that is true and (2) what is the
syntax
> of the file. And I have searched the SVN book as well.
The -F option always refers to the commit message. You can specify a file
that contains the commit message.
The easiest way to do what you want is this (2 commits):
svn delete url://repo1/proj1/trunk
svn cp url://repo1/proj1/version-2.0 url://repo1/proj1/trunk
Or something like that.
The key is that on the copy command you need to let it create the "trunk"
folder or else it will put the folder inside the existing trunk folder.
Mark
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File args
Posted by Miha Vitorovic <mv...@nil.si>.
Hi all,
<rant>
Sometimes I find the lack of proper documentation quite !#$?@!!! Mainly
when it comes to command line switches. For example
- - -
[c:\]svn help mv
move (mv, rename, ren): Move and/or rename something in working copy or
repository.
usage: move SRC DST
Note: this subcommand is equivalent to a 'copy' and 'delete'.
SRC and DST can both be working copy (WC) paths or URLs:
WC -> WC: move and schedule for addition (with history)
URL -> URL: complete server-side rename.
Valid options:
-r [--revision] arg : ARG (some commands also take ARG1:ARG2 range)
A revision argument can be one of:
NUMBER revision number
"{" DATE "}" revision at start of the date
"HEAD" latest in repository
"BASE" base rev of item's working
copy
"COMMITTED" last commit at or before BASE
"PREV" revision just before
COMMITTED
-q [--quiet] : print as little as possible
--force : force operation to run
-m [--message] arg : specify commit message ARG
-F [--file] arg : read data from file ARG
--force-log : force validity of log message source
--editor-cmd arg : use ARG as external editor
--encoding arg : treat value as being in charset encoding ARG
--username arg : specify a username ARG
--password arg : specify a password ARG
--no-auth-cache : do not cache authentication tokens
--non-interactive : do no interactive prompting
--config-dir arg : read user configuration files from directory
ARG
[c:\]
- - -
Now, I imagine, that with -F option it is possible to move many files in a
single "transaction" (and I want to move files, not folders), but nowhere
it is possible to discover if (1) that is true and (2) what is the syntax
of the file. And I have searched the SVN book as well.
</rant>
Can someone please help?
What I want to achieve in the end is this: Through the copy command in the
good old command interface I have created the folder named
"/repo1/proj1/trunk/version-2.0" - which is stupid. So now I want to move
all the files and subfolders one folder UP to /repo1/proj1/trunk/ without
creating a bunch of new revisions. Is that possible?
Cheers,
---
Miha Vitorovic
Inženir v tehničnem področju
Customer Support Engineer
NIL Data Communications, Tivolska cesta 48, 1000 Ljubljana, Slovenia
Phone +386 1 4746 500 Fax +386 1 4746 501 http://www.NIL.si
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