Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Don Ireland <sp...@donireland.com>]

Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
mailing list and 2) what list it is.

Why doesn't this list have something similar?  This list could have [SA 
User] in the subject and the Developer's list could use [SA Dev].  I'm 
getting messages in my inbox with no subject which I'm tempted to delete 
(because they're from people that  I don't know and have no subject to 
indicate that it's part of this list) and then there are other messages 
that do have subjects.   But some of those have subjects that I can't 
tell if they relate to this list either because they use terminology I 
don't recognize because I'm too new to this list and don't know SA well 
enough.

PLUS--I could have my server filter messages that have [SA User] in the 
subject into a seperate folder.  Just a thought.  :)

Thanks.

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>]

Evan Platt wrote:
> At 11:44 AM 3/4/2007, mouss wrote:
>
>> somewhat related: I sometimes receive mail with a spam tag in the 
>> subject, a tag added by the sender MTA !!! fortunately, I don't use 
>> subject tagging, otherwise...
>>
>> which explains why I do not favour subject modification by any piece 
>> of software (including SA)...
>
> It's a catch 22.
>
> Spamassassin modifies the subject (because - well, technically, that's 
> what I tell it to do - or rather it does it by default), and by either 
> 'design' (ie "that's how I want it), or by mistake (ie "crap, I don't 
> know how to configure my MTA), SpamAssassin scans and marks outgoing 
> mail.
>
>

or
    sender MTA is hosted outside and no authentication is used, so all 
his mail is "incoming"...
or
    the recipient replies to an "incoming" message that is tagged 
(incorrectly, but heh...), without "fixing" the subject.


now, since I don't tag subject, I don't care. but if I was tagging the 
subject and filtering based on that...

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Evan Platt <ev...@espphotography.com>]

At 11:44 AM 3/4/2007, mouss wrote:

>somewhat related: I sometimes receive mail with a spam tag in the 
>subject, a tag added by the sender MTA !!! fortunately, I don't use 
>subject tagging, otherwise...
>
>which explains why I do not favour subject modification by any piece 
>of software (including SA)...

It's a catch 22.

Spamassassin modifies the subject (because - well, technically, 
that's what I tell it to do - or rather it does it by default), and 
by either 'design' (ie "that's how I want it), or by mistake (ie 
"crap, I don't know how to configure my MTA), SpamAssassin scans and 
marks outgoing mail.

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[mouss <mo...@netoyen.net>]

Daryl C. W. O'Shea wrote:
> Bart Schaefer wrote:
>> On 3/3/07, Don Ireland <sp...@donireland.com> wrote:
>>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the
>>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a
>>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>>>
>>> Why doesn't this list have something similar?
>>
>> Because it's a really annoying thing to do and interacts badly with
>> both threading algorithms and with other automated header rewriting
>> that's done by mail readers?
>>
>> I'm on a couple of lists where this kind of tagging is done and there
>> are always threads where the subject has become
>>
>> Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Silly subject rewrites
>> ad infinitum
>>
>> Just Say No to unnecessary administrative mangling of messages that
>> pass through list exploders.
>
> Yeah, that's quite annoying and the prime reason why I hate list 
> subject tags.
>
> Having the list software modify the subject also breaks any 
> cryptographic signatures like DKIM too.  Although that's probably not 
> important to a lot of people, at least until someone else tries to 
> impersonate you... :)
>


somewhat related: I sometimes receive mail with a spam tag in the 
subject, a tag added by the sender MTA !!! fortunately, I don't use 
subject tagging, otherwise...

which explains why I do not favour subject modification by any piece of 
software (including SA)...

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

["Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>]

Bart Schaefer wrote:
> On 3/3/07, Don Ireland <sp...@donireland.com> wrote:
>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the
>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a
>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>>
>> Why doesn't this list have something similar?
> 
> Because it's a really annoying thing to do and interacts badly with
> both threading algorithms and with other automated header rewriting
> that's done by mail readers?
> 
> I'm on a couple of lists where this kind of tagging is done and there
> are always threads where the subject has become
> 
> Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Silly subject rewrites
> ad infinitum
> 
> Just Say No to unnecessary administrative mangling of messages that
> pass through list exploders.

Yeah, that's quite annoying and the prime reason why I hate list subject 
tags.

Having the list software modify the subject also breaks any 
cryptographic signatures like DKIM too.  Although that's probably not 
important to a lot of people, at least until someone else tries to 
impersonate you... :)


Daryl

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Bart Schaefer <ba...@gmail.com>]

On 3/3/07, Don Ireland <sp...@donireland.com> wrote:
> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the
> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a
> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>
> Why doesn't this list have something similar?

Because it's a really annoying thing to do and interacts badly with
both threading algorithms and with other automated header rewriting
that's done by mail readers?

I'm on a couple of lists where this kind of tagging is done and there
are always threads where the subject has become

Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Re: [List Name] Silly subject rewrites
ad infinitum

Just Say No to unnecessary administrative mangling of messages that
pass through list exploders.

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Matt Kettler <mk...@verizon.net>]

Don Ireland wrote:
> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the
> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a
> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>
> Why doesn't this list have something similar?

It does. It's got a List-Id header.

List-Id: <users.spamassassin.apache.org>

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Don Ireland <sp...@donireland.com>]

OK sorry.  Didn't realize it was such a sore spot.  :)

<<You must not subscribe to very many technical mailing lists. Most of 
the mailing lists that I subscribe to preserve the precious small amount 
of visible subject line space>>
I've been a part of a few--although not computer related (prefer 
forums).  I wasn't looking for more than a few chars.  One list adds 
three chars+the two bracket chars. 

I'll filter it at the server level based on the list-id.  I just knew 
that I'm getting all these messages in my inbox for this list and I'd 
like to get them into their own folder for easier mgmt and reading.

Thanks all!


Bob Proulx wrote:
> Don Ireland wrote:
>   
>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>>
>> Why doesn't this list have something similar?
>>     
>
> Please don't start up that discussion again!
>
> Check the list archives.  This comes up every few months.
>
> You must not subscribe to very many technical mailing lists.  Most of
> the mailing lists that I subscribe to preserve the precious small
> amount of visible subject line space and do NOT put subject tags in
> place.  If you want to add a subject tag for your messages then you
> may add it yourself.
>
> Bob
>   

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Bob Proulx <bo...@proulx.com>]

Don Ireland wrote:
> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>
> Why doesn't this list have something similar?

Please don't start up that discussion again!

Check the list archives.  This comes up every few months.

You must not subscribe to very many technical mailing lists.  Most of
the mailing lists that I subscribe to preserve the precious small
amount of visible subject line space and do NOT put subject tags in
place.  If you want to add a subject tag for your messages then you
may add it yourself.

Bob

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Graham Murray <gr...@gmurray.org.uk>]

Graham Murray <gr...@gmurray.org.uk> writes:

> Or even filter on the List-ID: or other RFC2191 headers.

Ooops RFC 2919

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Graham Murray <gr...@gmurray.org.uk>]

Mário Gamito <ga...@gmail.com> writes:


> Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead of
> subjects.

Or even filter on the List-ID: or other RFC2191 headers.

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

["Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>]

Brian Wilson wrote:
> 
> On Mar 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Mário Gamito wrote:
> 
>> Don Ireland wrote:
>>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
>>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
>>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>> Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead of 
>> subjects.
>>
>> -- Mário Gamito
> 
> This works until someone's reply to your posting is sent directly to you 
> instead of to the mailing list.  In order for the reply to be threaded 
> properly with other messages in the thread, it needs to be put into the 
> same folder.

That defeats the whole purpose of replying directly -- so that the 
person you reply directly to is sure to see it.  If it's moved into the 
folder with all the other list messages (and the duplicate copy sent to 
the list... so now you'd have two copies of the same message threaded 
for you) there's a pretty good chance that it'll go un-noticed.

I know that, I for one, am less likely to follow up on a thread seeking 
my help if I'm not copied on it.  I wouldn't be surprised that others 
also don't have the time to read thousands of list messages a day to 
keep up with the threads they're involved with (or even just remember 
all the threads that they're involved with so they can just read those 
threads).

The above reasoning is why I sometimes copy the people involved in the 
thread and sometimes just send directly to the list.  If I think they, 
or I, would benefit from seeing the message then they get a copy.  If 
they never send copies to others I usually don't send them a copy.  If 
I'm really busy or lazy everyone gets a copy since it's faster for me.


>  An easy way to direct it to a folder is basing your rules 
> off some characteristic that message  it originally had (i.e. the 
> subject).  I tend to agree that it would be nice if the mailing list had 
> a subject prefix like most other mailing lists.  If not to sort mail, at 
> least to be able to categorize it mentally should you not classify your 
> mail into folders.

Well, the PMC (i) doesn't have control over the mailing list software to 
do it, and (ii) doesn't want to do it anyway.  So it's not likely going 
to change.

If you really want to see subject line tags get your MDA to add them 
locally when it sees a List-Id header and then just delete the duplicate 
copies (sent to you directly) manually if they are confusing you.


Daryl

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Brian Wilson <wi...@bubba.org>]

On Mar 3, 2007, at 4:41 PM, Mário Gamito wrote:

> Don Ireland wrote:
>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the  
>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it  
>> is a mailing list and 2) what list it is.
> Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead  
> of subjects.
>
> -- Mário Gamito

This works until someone's reply to your posting is sent directly to  
you instead of to the mailing list.  In order for the reply to be  
threaded properly with other messages in the thread, it needs to be  
put into the same folder.  An easy way to direct it to a folder is  
basing your rules off some characteristic that message  it originally  
had (i.e. the subject).  I tend to agree that it would be nice if the  
mailing list had a subject prefix like most other mailing lists.  If  
not to sort mail, at least to be able to categorize it mentally  
should you not classify your mail into folders.

-B 
  

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

["Daryl C. W. O'Shea" <sp...@dostech.ca>]

Doc Schneider wrote:
> Mário Gamito wrote:
>> Don Ireland wrote:
>>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
>>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
>>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
>> Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead of 
>> subjects.
>>
>> -- Mário Gamito
> 
> That's how I sort mine by the To: and CC: lines Thunderbird has a To or 
> CC option to sort them with. I know most clients also can do this. It 
> only doesn't work when people insist on BCC's the list. But then looking 
> at the source of it I see where it is supposed to be filtered to. 8*))

Or you'all could just filter on the List-Id header and be done with it. :)

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Doc Schneider <ma...@maddoc.net>]

Mário Gamito wrote:
> Don Ireland wrote:
>> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
>> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
>> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
> Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead of 
> subjects.
> 
> -- Mário Gamito

That's how I sort mine by the To: and CC: lines Thunderbird has a To or 
CC option to sort them with. I know most clients also can do this. It 
only doesn't work when people insist on BCC's the list. But then looking 
at the source of it I see where it is supposed to be filtered to. 8*))

-- 

  -Doc

  Penguins: Do it on the ice.
    8:44am  up 4 days, 16:55, 17 users,  load average: 0.18, 0.30, 0.37

  SARE HQ  http://www.rulesemporium.com/

Re: Sorting SA Discussion List Messages

[Mário Gamito <ga...@gmail.com>]

Don Ireland wrote:
> Every email list I've ever subscribed to has had something in the 
> subject line (usually in square brackets) to identify 1) that it is a 
> mailing list and 2) what list it is.
Maybe, just maybe, you can filter through e-mail adresseses instead of 
subjects.

-- Mário Gamito