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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by "Williams, Nick" <ni...@ul.com> on 2013/01/30 17:20:00 UTC
JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
Thanks,
Nick
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Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Nick,
On 1/30/13 11:20 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I
> understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and
> that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not
> implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there
> have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily
> integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
I did a POC years ago for use of JMX and I used OpenJMS
(http://openjms.sourceforge.net/). That project appears to be dormant
at this point, but you could do a bit of investigation. It's also
possible that, since JMS isn't exactly a hugely-growing API, it's
simply *done*.
- -chris
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RE: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by "Williams, Nick" <ni...@ul.com>.
Chris, this makes sense, and is kind of already what I was thinking. I just figured, after soliciting suggestions for JMS providers, that while we were on the topic of JMS I would ask.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Schultz [mailto:chris@christopherschultz.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:18 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
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Nick,
On 1/30/13 2:06 PM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> Thanks for the input, both of you. I will take a look at the activity
> in the repository and also inquire on the lists, as well as trying
> different implementations.
>
> I'm curious. I know that, being open source, the Tomcat project
> generally welcomes volunteers who want to contribute features or
> improvements. However, I'd like to know at what point a feature is
> unwelcome in Tomcat. I know that Tomcat is not and does not desire to
> be a full JavaEE application server. So, with that in mind, does the
> community desire that Tomcat NOT ever have JMS implemented in it? Or,
> has it just never been done because nobody did it, and if a volunteer
> came along willing to implement JMS in Tomcat, would the community be
> open to that?
I think Tomcat is not likely to consider JMS integration in the near future. If you want a J2EE stack, TomEE is really where you want to look. Adding JMS to Tomcat is not a big deal to do manually, and the overhead of having it come out-of-the-box is probably just not worth it for the overwhelming majority of current users.
- -chris
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Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
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Hash: SHA256
Nick,
On 1/30/13 2:06 PM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> Thanks for the input, both of you. I will take a look at the
> activity in the repository and also inquire on the lists, as well
> as trying different implementations.
>
> I'm curious. I know that, being open source, the Tomcat project
> generally welcomes volunteers who want to contribute features or
> improvements. However, I'd like to know at what point a feature is
> unwelcome in Tomcat. I know that Tomcat is not and does not desire
> to be a full JavaEE application server. So, with that in mind, does
> the community desire that Tomcat NOT ever have JMS implemented in
> it? Or, has it just never been done because nobody did it, and if a
> volunteer came along willing to implement JMS in Tomcat, would the
> community be open to that?
I think Tomcat is not likely to consider JMS integration in the near
future. If you want a J2EE stack, TomEE is really where you want to
look. Adding JMS to Tomcat is not a big deal to do manually, and the
overhead of having it come out-of-the-box is probably just not worth
it for the overwhelming majority of current users.
- -chris
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RE: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by "Terence M. Bandoian" <te...@tmbsw.com>.
On 1/30/2013 3:27 PM, Jeff Sturm wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Williams, Nick [mailto:nicholas.williams@ul.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:06 PM
>>
>> I'm curious. I know that, being open source, the Tomcat project generally welcomes
>> volunteers who want to contribute features or improvements. However, I'd like to
>> know at what point a feature is unwelcome in Tomcat. I know that Tomcat is not and
>> does not desire to be a full JavaEE application server. So, with that in mind, does the
>> community desire that Tomcat NOT ever have JMS implemented in it? Or, has it just
>> never been done because nobody did it, and if a volunteer came along willing to
>> implement JMS in Tomcat, would the community be open to that?
> I'll toss out my opinion here (noting that I do not speak for Tomcat developers nor the ASF, nor even my employer I suppose)...
>
> We have an application here that uses JMS, for which we selected HornetQ for a variety of reasons (e.g. "it's fast"). The app also happens to be hosted on a Tomcat web application server.
>
> However Tomcat knows nothing of our JMS implementation (with the exception of a single Java property we set to name our JNDI provider) and HornetQ surely does not care whether or not it is running within Tomcat. Tomcat is useful to me a fast and flexible HTTP server that implements some basic specifications (giving it a degree of interoperability with other webapp containers). With that in mind, it feels to me as though things like JDBC data sources and JMS topics/queues are not within the scope of what Tomcat ought to provide, and I don't wish to see Tomcat become big and bloated in an attempt to be everything to everyone.
>
> Indeed it seems odd to ask the question on a Tomcat list, unless the goal is to just solicit opinions on JMS providers from other list members who may have experience with one or more such provider.
>
> Having been a Java developer since 1.0, and having adopted the language initially for the beauty of its simplicity, I've watched it transform into an alphabet soup that includes EJB, JSP, J2EE, etc. None of those specifications provide valuable capabilities I cannot built into my own application simply by choosing and integrating the right libraries. Even as an "enterprise" developer it does not feel like the J2EE specification was written for me, and I find myself wishing that bit of nonsense would just fade into obscurity, and I would be free to peel back the layers of the various Java technologies to pick and choose the smallest, simplest components as I see fit.
>
> Anyway, please excuse the rant, and feel free to return to your normal email list perusal...
>
> -Jeff
Hear, hear.
-Terence Bandoian
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RE: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Jeff Sturm <je...@eprize.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Williams, Nick [mailto:nicholas.williams@ul.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 2:06 PM
>
> I'm curious. I know that, being open source, the Tomcat project generally welcomes
> volunteers who want to contribute features or improvements. However, I'd like to
> know at what point a feature is unwelcome in Tomcat. I know that Tomcat is not and
> does not desire to be a full JavaEE application server. So, with that in mind, does the
> community desire that Tomcat NOT ever have JMS implemented in it? Or, has it just
> never been done because nobody did it, and if a volunteer came along willing to
> implement JMS in Tomcat, would the community be open to that?
I'll toss out my opinion here (noting that I do not speak for Tomcat developers nor the ASF, nor even my employer I suppose)...
We have an application here that uses JMS, for which we selected HornetQ for a variety of reasons (e.g. "it's fast"). The app also happens to be hosted on a Tomcat web application server.
However Tomcat knows nothing of our JMS implementation (with the exception of a single Java property we set to name our JNDI provider) and HornetQ surely does not care whether or not it is running within Tomcat. Tomcat is useful to me a fast and flexible HTTP server that implements some basic specifications (giving it a degree of interoperability with other webapp containers). With that in mind, it feels to me as though things like JDBC data sources and JMS topics/queues are not within the scope of what Tomcat ought to provide, and I don't wish to see Tomcat become big and bloated in an attempt to be everything to everyone.
Indeed it seems odd to ask the question on a Tomcat list, unless the goal is to just solicit opinions on JMS providers from other list members who may have experience with one or more such provider.
Having been a Java developer since 1.0, and having adopted the language initially for the beauty of its simplicity, I've watched it transform into an alphabet soup that includes EJB, JSP, J2EE, etc. None of those specifications provide valuable capabilities I cannot built into my own application simply by choosing and integrating the right libraries. Even as an "enterprise" developer it does not feel like the J2EE specification was written for me, and I find myself wishing that bit of nonsense would just fade into obscurity, and I would be free to peel back the layers of the various Java technologies to pick and choose the smallest, simplest components as I see fit.
Anyway, please excuse the rant, and feel free to return to your normal email list perusal...
-Jeff
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RE: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by "Williams, Nick" <ni...@ul.com>.
Thanks for the input, both of you. I will take a look at the activity in the repository and also inquire on the lists, as well as trying different implementations.
I'm curious. I know that, being open source, the Tomcat project generally welcomes volunteers who want to contribute features or improvements. However, I'd like to know at what point a feature is unwelcome in Tomcat. I know that Tomcat is not and does not desire to be a full JavaEE application server. So, with that in mind, does the community desire that Tomcat NOT ever have JMS implemented in it? Or, has it just never been done because nobody did it, and if a volunteer came along willing to implement JMS in Tomcat, would the community be open to that?
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mikusa [mailto:dmikusa@vmware.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:51 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> I do not have a preferred implementation, no. I understand the basics of JMS and how it works, but I have never actually used it before.
I would second Chris' suggestion that you do a POC and try a few different implementations. Find the one that works best for your needs.
> I do usually work with Spring Framework, but my understanding is that it's relatively agnostic as to the underlying implementation of JMS.
As is the JMS api. Either way, your code shouldn't need to change much, if at all, as you try different implementations.
> ActiveMQ looks interesting. One concern I have is that some of the documentation seems rather dated: referring to JavaEE 1.4, for example, when 1.6 came out two years ago and 1.7 is on the brink of approval. And then there's the context resource definition on the Tomcat page and references to the shared lib directory, and immediately below that an 'updated' resource definition for "Tomcat 5.5 or later" that's "completely untested but should work." Seeing as how 6.0 and 7.0 are both mature and 8.0 is around the corner somewhere, this seems awfully dated.
I agree with you here. The Tomcat integration docs are very out-of-date. That said, my experience with the rest of their docs has been OK.
> How well-maintained and up-to-date is ActiveMQ? Can we expect work on the impending JMS 2.0 specification to begin any time in the future?
To answer this question, I would suggest you look to their mailing lists and their code repository. You can see how often they check in code and how active the developers are on the mailing list.
Dan
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mikusa [mailto:dmikusa@vmware.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:41 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
>
>> Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
>
> The first one that comes to mind is ActiveMQ...
>
> https://activemq.apache.org/tomcat.html
>
> but I'm sure there are other options. Do you have a preferred JMS implementation?
>
> Dan
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick
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Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Daniel Mikusa <dm...@vmware.com>.
On Jan 30, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> I do not have a preferred implementation, no. I understand the basics of JMS and how it works, but I have never actually used it before.
I would second Chris' suggestion that you do a POC and try a few different implementations. Find the one that works best for your needs.
> I do usually work with Spring Framework, but my understanding is that it's relatively agnostic as to the underlying implementation of JMS.
As is the JMS api. Either way, your code shouldn't need to change much, if at all, as you try different implementations.
> ActiveMQ looks interesting. One concern I have is that some of the documentation seems rather dated: referring to JavaEE 1.4, for example, when 1.6 came out two years ago and 1.7 is on the brink of approval. And then there's the context resource definition on the Tomcat page and references to the shared lib directory, and immediately below that an 'updated' resource definition for "Tomcat 5.5 or later" that's "completely untested but should work." Seeing as how 6.0 and 7.0 are both mature and 8.0 is around the corner somewhere, this seems awfully dated.
I agree with you here. The Tomcat integration docs are very out-of-date. That said, my experience with the rest of their docs has been OK.
> How well-maintained and up-to-date is ActiveMQ? Can we expect work on the impending JMS 2.0 specification to begin any time in the future?
To answer this question, I would suggest you look to their mailing lists and their code repository. You can see how often they check in code and how active the developers are on the mailing list.
Dan
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel Mikusa [mailto:dmikusa@vmware.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:41 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
>
> On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
>
>> Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
>
> The first one that comes to mind is ActiveMQ...
>
> https://activemq.apache.org/tomcat.html
>
> but I'm sure there are other options. Do you have a preferred JMS implementation?
>
> Dan
>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Nick
>
>
> This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you may not disclose, use, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment(s); and (2) please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then delete this message and its attachment(s). Underwriters Laboratories Inc. and its affiliates disclaim all liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in this message or any attachments.
>
>
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Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256
Nick,
On 1/30/13 1:08 PM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> I do not have a preferred implementation, no. I understand the
> basics of JMS and how it works, but I have never actually used it
> before. I do usually work with Spring Framework, but my
> understanding is that it's relatively agnostic as to the underlying
> implementation of JMS.
>
> ActiveMQ looks interesting. One concern I have is that some of the
> documentation seems rather dated: [...]
FWIW, David and the gang over at TomEE chose Apache Active MQ as their
JMS provider. That could have been merely Apache-bias, but they did
get TomEE certified for the J2EE Web Profile (not sure what version...
I think 1.6).
Presumably, TomEE will want to keep up-to-date when JMS 2.0 comes out,
so they may be keeping their eye on JMS implementations. It might be
worth a trip over to their mailing list to find out.
I'm personally interested in an active JMS implementation as I'll be
moving towards that space relatively soon for my own projects. I'd be
glad to hear what you find out about JMS in general and Active MQ
specifically.
- -chris
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RE: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by "Williams, Nick" <ni...@ul.com>.
I do not have a preferred implementation, no. I understand the basics of JMS and how it works, but I have never actually used it before. I do usually work with Spring Framework, but my understanding is that it's relatively agnostic as to the underlying implementation of JMS.
ActiveMQ looks interesting. One concern I have is that some of the documentation seems rather dated: referring to JavaEE 1.4, for example, when 1.6 came out two years ago and 1.7 is on the brink of approval. And then there's the context resource definition on the Tomcat page and references to the shared lib directory, and immediately below that an 'updated' resource definition for "Tomcat 5.5 or later" that's "completely untested but should work." Seeing as how 6.0 and 7.0 are both mature and 8.0 is around the corner somewhere, this seems awfully dated. How well-maintained and up-to-date is ActiveMQ? Can we expect work on the impending JMS 2.0 specification to begin any time in the future?
Thanks,
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Mikusa [mailto:dmikusa@vmware.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:41 AM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
The first one that comes to mind is ActiveMQ...
https://activemq.apache.org/tomcat.html
but I'm sure there are other options. Do you have a preferred JMS implementation?
Dan
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you may not disclose, use, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment(s); and (2) please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then delete this message and its attachment(s). Underwriters Laboratories Inc. and its affiliates disclaim all liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in this message or any attachments.
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Re: JMS in a Tomcat Environment
Posted by Daniel Mikusa <dm...@vmware.com>.
On Jan 30, 2013, at 11:20 AM, Williams, Nick wrote:
> Knowing that Tomcat is not a full JavaEE application server, I understand that it doesn't support all JavaEE specifications, and that JMS is one of the specifications that Tomcat does not implement. However, I'm wondering if any Tomcat users out there have any experience with any JMS solutions that can be easily integrated into a Tomcat cluster?
The first one that comes to mind is ActiveMQ...
https://activemq.apache.org/tomcat.html
but I'm sure there are other options. Do you have a preferred JMS implementation?
Dan
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> This e-mail may contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you may not disclose, use, distribute, copy or rely upon this message or attachment(s); and (2) please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then delete this message and its attachment(s). Underwriters Laboratories Inc. and its affiliates disclaim all liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in this message or any attachments
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