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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at> on 2002/01/27 18:46:56 UTC
next try
Hi!
Here is my next try to merge some ideas ...
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm
I've attached a patch file, too (a rather big one..)
This version is much cleaner, IMO. Maybe a light bg would be worth a try..
Changes:
* some finetunig in style.css
* moved a <br> out of page/index into navbar_global, so that the boxes align
well if there is no breadcrumb
* removed now not needed toc-anchor
* changed main menu to plain links seperated by line brakes
* moved Stas' new download widget into navbar_local, removing the old one
from toc
* removed the 4 icons from the tail
* added a new top-link-image (also attached, although the image is not perfect)
Issues:
This design is not rendering perfect in NS4, as the white boxes don't span
the page. Ditto the Headline crossbar.
But I'm finetuning some tricks to make it work on NS4 /and/ correctly
rendering browsers.
Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
>>Changes:
>>* added a new top-link-image (also attached, although the image is not perfect)
>>
>
> -1
> well, i like the image. but i prefer we stick to a similar
> image-type as the prev|up|next so all the navigation more or
> less look similar.
you mean +1 for the image, but -1 for the style right :) Sure the image
needs to be redone, see the TODO file.
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Thomas Klausner wrote:
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm
>
> I've attached a patch file, too (a rather big one..)
>
> This version is much cleaner, IMO.
much nicer!
> Maybe a light bg would be worth a try..
yes i think so
> Changes:
> * added a new top-link-image (also attached, although the image is not perfect)
-1
well, i like the image. but i prefer we stick to a similar
image-type as the prev|up|next so all the navigation more or
less look similar.
> This design is not rendering perfect in NS4, as the white boxes don't span
> the page. Ditto the Headline crossbar.
> But I'm finetuning some tricks to make it work on NS4 /and/ correctly
> rendering browsers.
yes. and 0.6em is extemely small. that is 60% the size of a
chosen default font-size.
nice work, thomas
./allan
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
>>>how about either:
>>><table width="100%"> ?
>>>or
>>>margin-right: 0px; ?
>>>
>>but we have a solution already, which was also tested in many browsers.
>>
>
> you mean the -soloution, right?
yes
>>You know that CSS solution doesn't work here.
>>
>
> which CSS solution doesn't work??
margin-right: 0px;
> i do know that <table width="100%"> works in many browsers
yes, but we are talking about table-less core layout, aren't we?
> (see http://www.apache.org/~stas/preview/allan_24_1/products/index.html)
>
> and even <img src="space.gif" width="100%" height="1"> works
> in many browsers.
Hmm, I wonder what happens to all these spacers in text browsers (links,
lynx and alike). Must be horrible.
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> allan wrote:
>
> > Thomas Klausner wrote:
> >
> >>Hi!
> >>
> >>On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:12AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> >>
> >>>>Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
> >>>>page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
> >>>>width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
> >>>>
> >>>Yup, back to the way it was with your original design. I guess a row of
> >>> is the simplest solution, as we have discussed this already.
> >>>
> >>+1
> >>
> >
> > how about either:
> > <table width="100%"> ?
> > or
> > margin-right: 0px; ?
>
> but we have a solution already, which was also tested in many browsers.
you mean the -soloution, right?
> You know that CSS solution doesn't work here.
which CSS solution doesn't work??
i do know that <table width="100%"> works in many browsers
(see http://www.apache.org/~stas/preview/allan_24_1/products/index.html)
and even <img src="space.gif" width="100%" height="1"> works
in many browsers.
anyway, it was just a suggestion
./allan
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
> Thomas Klausner wrote:
>
>>Hi!
>>
>>On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:12AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>>
>>>>Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
>>>>page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
>>>>width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
>>>>
>>>Yup, back to the way it was with your original design. I guess a row of
>>> is the simplest solution, as we have discussed this already.
>>>
>>+1
>>
>
> how about either:
> <table width="100%"> ?
> or
> margin-right: 0px; ?
but we have a solution already, which was also tested in many browsers.
You know that CSS solution doesn't work here.
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Thomas Klausner wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:12AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> > > Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
> > > page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
> > > width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
> > Yup, back to the way it was with your original design. I guess a row of
> > is the simplest solution, as we have discussed this already.
> +1
how about either:
<table width="100%"> ?
or
margin-right: 0px; ?
> It seems that NS4 has got
> some problems with padding-values.
yes it very annoyingly automatically ads "outer-padding"
when padding is defined with a positive integer.
> All menu items should be links, all of the time.
+1
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> Thomas Klausner wrote:
>
> >>Also can we get rid of fixed size here? Or is it not possible?
> >>
> > It's definitly possible. The fixed size here was introduced by me to get at
> > least the menu font-sizes the same on IE/Win and the rest (remember the
> > problem with the big base font sizes of IE/Win)
>
> Yup. So it's not possible. But you say that it is?
i think that ems could be a soloution even for IE6/WIN2k ...
>
> >>- should there be some hr or just more space between the last [top]
> >>image, the navbar and the tail at the bottom of the pages?
> >>
> > definitly, but more space instead of a hr.
+1
> >
> > What about making a differnt navbar_local for the bottom of the page,
> > excluding the download widget? It seems misplaced down there to me.
>
> sure, navbar_local_top and navbar_local_bottom
+1
./allan
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Thomas Klausner wrote:
>>Also can we get rid of fixed size here? Or is it not possible?
>>
> It's definitly possible. The fixed size here was introduced by me to get at
> least the menu font-sizes the same on IE/Win and the rest (remember the
> problem with the big base font sizes of IE/Win)
Yup. So it's not possible. But you say that it is?
>>- should there be some hr or just more space between the last [top]
>>image, the navbar and the tail at the bottom of the pages?
>>
> definitly, but more space instead of a hr.
>
> What about making a differnt navbar_local for the bottom of the page,
> excluding the download widget? It seems misplaced down there to me.
sure, navbar_local_top and navbar_local_bottom
>>Also there is no consistency, the index.html pages have the tail as a
>>separate box, whereas on all other pages it's glued to the body.
>>
> Strange. I see it in a different box with all browsers I have access to.
Right, on almost all pages but at least it doesn't on this one:
http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.html
>>- please try to avoid using real \t in style.css and other docs.
>>
> ah, yes, I'll have to teach emacs to use *.css files properly...
I think you could make it global, I've the setting for cperl-mode,
.xemacs/custom.el:
------------------
(custom-set-variables
'(cperl-indent-level 4)
'(cperl-continued-statement-offset 4)
'(cperl-tab-always-indent t)
'(indent-tabs-mode nil)
)
what would be the syntax for making it for all modes?
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http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
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Re: next try
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
Hi!
On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:35:12AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> > Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
> > page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
> > width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
> Yup, back to the way it was with your original design. I guess a row of
> is the simplest solution, as we have discussed this already.
+1
> - why the patch made the menu wider?
>
> - width: 160px;
> + width: 170px;
>
> and div.logo, div.menu and other div's
I was playing around with NS4, IE5.5 and Mozilla, and with this settings the
menu boxes look the same and are properly aligned. It seems that NS4 has got
some problems with padding-values.
We can make the menu smaller, with the small drawback that in NS4 (at least
on Win) the menu will look a little bit distorted.
I'll make some screenshots later...
> Also can we get rid of fixed size here? Or is it not possible?
It's definitly possible. The fixed size here was introduced by me to get at
least the menu font-sizes the same on IE/Win and the rest (remember the
problem with the big base font sizes of IE/Win)
> - should there be some hr or just more space between the last [top]
> image, the navbar and the tail at the bottom of the pages?
definitly, but more space instead of a hr.
What about making a differnt navbar_local for the bottom of the page,
excluding the download widget? It seems misplaced down there to me.
> Also there is no consistency, the index.html pages have the tail as a
> separate box, whereas on all other pages it's glued to the body.
Strange. I see it in a different box with all browsers I have access to.
> - please try to avoid using real \t in style.css and other docs.
ah, yes, I'll have to teach emacs to use *.css files properly...
> Index: tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /home/cvspublic/modperl-docs/tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level,v
> retrieving revision 1.4
> diff -u -r1.4 menu_top_level
> --- tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level 24 Jan 2002 19:11:20 -0000 1.4
> +++ tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level 27 Jan 2002 17:32:51 -0000
> @@ -32,10 +32,12 @@
> WHILE p;
> count = count + 1;
> link = INCLUDE link prefix=prefix link=p.meta.link;
> - buttons.push({link => link, text => p.meta.stitle});
> IF p.id == current.id;
> - selected = count;
> + style = 'activenav';
> + ELSE;
> + style = 'notactivenav';
> END;
> + buttons.push({link => link, text => p.meta.stitle, style=> style });
> p = p.next; # next node
> END;
> -%]
>
> so you think it's a good idea to actually fix that? I'd rather keep all
> the menu hyperlinked at all times. Dunno what's the best thing.
Ups, that was by mistake. All menu items should be links, all of the time.
E.g. if I'm deep in Documentation and what to switch to a totaly different
Doc-Item, I'll use the menu, not the breadcrumb.
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O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz |
M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html |
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Thomas Klausner wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Here is my next try to merge some ideas ...
>
> http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm
>
> I've attached a patch file, too (a rather big one..)
Cool, thanks Thomas!
> This version is much cleaner, IMO. Maybe a light bg would be worth a try..
+1
> Changes:
> * some finetunig in style.css
> * moved a <br> out of page/index into navbar_global, so that the boxes align
> well if there is no breadcrumb
> * removed now not needed toc-anchor
> * changed main menu to plain links seperated by line brakes
> * moved Stas' new download widget into navbar_local, removing the old one
> from toc
> * removed the 4 icons from the tail
But we need to put these into a new page, I'll do that.
> * added a new top-link-image (also attached, although the image is not perfect)
up, needs to be re-done
Notice that we have a TODO file in the root of the cvs dir, so feel free
to add more stuff like this there, so we won't forget things that were
discussed already.
> Issues:
> This design is not rendering perfect in NS4, as the white boxes don't span
> the page. Ditto the Headline crossbar.
> But I'm finetuning some tricks to make it work on NS4 /and/ correctly
> rendering browsers.
great!
> Oh, one thing I just discovered is that products/index.html doesn't span the
> page (in Mozilla, Opera is OK) . Haven't got time right now to fix it (with
> width:100% and some fiddling with padding-rigth) ...
Yup, back to the way it was with your original design. I guess a row of
is the simplest solution, as we have discussed this already.
more issues:
- why the patch made the menu wider?
- width: 160px;
+ width: 170px;
and div.logo, div.menu and other div's
So much horizonal space is wasted. I'd do the opposite -- try to shrink
it. Remember that we have documents with wide <pre> sections, so we need
all the horizontal space we can get.
Also can we get rid of fixed size here? Or is it not possible?
- should there be some hr or just more space between the last [top]
image, the navbar and the tail at the bottom of the pages?
Also there is no consistency, the index.html pages have the tail as a
separate box, whereas on all other pages it's glued to the body.
Small nits:
- please try to avoid using real \t in style.css and other docs.
- run 'cvs up -dP' so the files that were deleted will be removed from
your cvs checked out version.
Index: tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level
===================================================================
RCS file: /home/cvspublic/modperl-docs/tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level,v
retrieving revision 1.4
diff -u -r1.4 menu_top_level
--- tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level 24 Jan 2002 19:11:20 -0000 1.4
+++ tmpl/custom/html/menu_top_level 27 Jan 2002 17:32:51 -0000
@@ -32,10 +32,12 @@
WHILE p;
count = count + 1;
link = INCLUDE link prefix=prefix link=p.meta.link;
- buttons.push({link => link, text => p.meta.stitle});
IF p.id == current.id;
- selected = count;
+ style = 'activenav';
+ ELSE;
+ style = 'notactivenav';
END;
+ buttons.push({link => link, text => p.meta.stitle, style=> style });
p = p.next; # next node
END;
-%]
so you think it's a good idea to actually fix that? I'd rather keep all
the menu hyperlinked at all times. Dunno what's the best thing.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
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Re: next try
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
Hi!
On Sun, Jan 27, 2002 at 09:59:21AM -0800, Bill Moseley wrote:
> I like the look. How about a A:hover for the menu? Maybe just a
> text-decoration:underline; style? And/or use @import trick for NS4 clients.
I'll say we save those details for later..
> Still does not render in NS4.x.
That's strage, it renders (nearly) on my NS4.something on Win. What version/OS
are you using? Can you send me a screenshot?
--
D_OMM +----> http://domm.zsi.at <-----+
O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz |
M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html |
M_asteuei +--------------------------------+
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Re: next try
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 09:30 AM 01/28/02 +0800, allan wrote:
>
>>>How about > instead of / for the breadcrumb?
>>>
>>actually i did that for my entry in the competion but now i
>>prefer the slash version as this really indicates a path (a
>>least on *nix) which is what a breadcrumb is in our case.
>>
>
> Just an opinion.
>
>
> I just changed div.navbarglobal back ground to match the body background.
> Try that, as I think the bread crumb doesn't need to stand out that much
> (in its own white-bg bar). I like a more subtle bread-crumb, plus it makes
> the content box stand out more.
Please wait before we try to change the bg to a lighter one, then we
will see if we can still do this for the breadcrumb.
I also suggest to first solve all the problems with the layout. And once
we are happy with the coverage we can play solely with colors and
content. Makes sense?
> Those errors that were removed from the menu? For the selected menu item
> would it be nice to have an error on the right side pointing to the content?
I've just applied some changes, currenly the only diff between selected
and nonselected is in <b></b>. I know now what was wrong with having
selected items not linked. This works if you have an expandable menu, so
you can reach the sub-items from the menu. However this is completely
unintuitive with a menu of only one level.
So do you think, having only the <b></b> added to the selected item
work? +1 from me.
> Back to the bread crumb. Take a look around at a few sites. They seem to
> put the current page as the last of the bread crumb. It's a bit silly to
> have a link to the current page, but I think that's more common. Just
> something to consider.
Yup, that's how I planned it originally. The problem is that some pages
have a way long titles that won't fit into one row. Also you have a
duplication with the title which is located very close to the breadcrumb.
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> I just changed div.navbarglobal back ground to match the body background.
+1
> Try that, as I think the bread crumb doesn't need to stand out that much
> (in its own white-bg bar).
+1
> I like a more subtle bread-crumb, plus it makes
> the content box stand out more.
+1
> Back to the bread crumb. Take a look around at a few sites. They seem to
> put the current page as the last of the bread crumb. It's a bit silly to
> have a link to the current page, but I think that's more common. Just
> something to consider.
well, here i like our idea the best. often these breadcrumbs
aren't very deep so web-mangeres fill them out with the
current page.
if we decide to include the current page in the breadcrumb i
certainly vote for that paricular item not to be a link.
./allan
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Re: next try
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 09:30 AM 01/28/02 +0800, allan wrote:
>> How about > instead of / for the breadcrumb?
>
>actually i did that for my entry in the competion but now i
>prefer the slash version as this really indicates a path (a
>least on *nix) which is what a breadcrumb is in our case.
Just an opinion.
I just changed div.navbarglobal back ground to match the body background.
Try that, as I think the bread crumb doesn't need to stand out that much
(in its own white-bg bar). I like a more subtle bread-crumb, plus it makes
the content box stand out more.
Those errors that were removed from the menu? For the selected menu item
would it be nice to have an error on the right side pointing to the content?
Back to the bread crumb. Take a look around at a few sites. They seem to
put the current page as the last of the bread crumb. It's a bit silly to
have a link to the current page, but I think that's more common. Just
something to consider.
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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Re: next try
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
>
> At 06:46 PM 01/27/02 +0100, Thomas Klausner wrote:
> >http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm
>
> I like the look. How about a A:hover for the menu? Maybe just a
> text-decoration:underline; style? And/or use @import trick for NS4 clients.
>
> How about > instead of / for the breadcrumb?
actually i did that for my entry in the competion but now i
prefer the slash version as this really indicates a path (a
least on *nix) which is what a breadcrumb is in our case.
./allan
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Re: next try
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 06:46 PM 01/27/02 +0100, Thomas Klausner wrote:
>http://domm.zsi.at/modperl-site-domm
I like the look. How about a A:hover for the menu? Maybe just a
text-decoration:underline; style? And/or use @import trick for NS4 clients.
How about > instead of / for the breadcrumb?
The menu is obvious, but a bit boring. What about a header bar of a
different color?
Still does not render in NS4.x.
Is using a rewrite for running two sites OK? How else is the NS4 issue
going to be solved without using tables?
--
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