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Posted to dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2003/03/27 07:43:51 UTC
mod_perl installation simplification, bundles, etc.
[moving the discussion from another list. see the p5p list for the whole
story, this is just a snippet of the thread]
Stas Bekman wrote:
>>>>First of all this is a more generic problem than in my particular
>>>>case, we already have this problem with all packages living in the
>>>>core and separately on the CPAN. The indexer introduces a special case
>>>>for perl core.
Ken Williams wrote:
>>>For what it's worth, my solution to that problem would essentially be
>>>the same as what I recommended in your case: for core modules that are
>>>in CPAN independently, the core should essentially "depend" on the CPAN
>>>versions.
Stas Bekman replied:
>>But it doesn't. Since we want the core to include all the essential modules in
>>the core. If downloading the dependant modules was a trivial thing, the core
>>would simply include them, right?
Nick Tonkin followed up:
> But the "core" does not in reality contain all the modules even an end user
> would need in their environment. I'm thinking specifically of Apache::Request
> but I'm sure there are others that almost everyone winds up installing.
But I'm not talking about end-user modules at all. Apache::Test and
ModPerl::MMUtil are used only during the build and testing of the core
mod_perl and 3rd party ModPerl::/Apache:: modules. All I'm trying to do is to
minimize the effort of installing/testing things both for users and developers.
What you are talking about is the responsibility of Bundle::Apache and
Bundle::Apache2. And indeed Bundle::Apache includes Apache::Request, so
whenever you get a new perl install do:
perl -MCPAN -e install Bundle::Apache
and you get all the essential mp1 modules installed.
Nick Tonkin then wrote:
> What would be cool would be if there were a great CPAN install bundle for
> mod_perl that installed dependencies in the regular way and also made the
> configuration/build process a little easier for the end user. Or even a
> third party solution ... seems to me there's a tool for building and installing
> apache and its modules; did you ever check out how it did with mod_perl, Stas?
> (I doubt it's mp2 compatible for sure anyway). I live on FreeBSD so I'm spoiled,
> I guess, but I really think mod_perl could benefit from having a more hands-off
> build process, one that in the process would eliminate this problem you are facing.
Nick, you perfectly know that the phrase 'what would be cool' doesn't work in
the open source world, unless it triggers someone's interest, or you yourself
make it into a code...
I'm working on a module that will help developers to make their Makefile.PL's
simpler, I'm seeking comments on the dev modperl list, in the thread I've
started.
And no, I haven't looked at the package you are talking about.
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: mod_perl installation simplification, bundles, etc.
Posted by Nick Tonkin <ni...@tonkinresolutions.com>.
On Fri, 28 Mar 2003, Stas Bekman wrote:
> Nick Tonkin wrote:
> [...]
> >>What you are talking about is the responsibility of Bundle::Apache and
> >>Bundle::Apache2. And indeed Bundle::Apache includes Apache::Request, so
> >>whenever you get a new perl install do:
> >>
> >>perl -MCPAN -e install Bundle::Apache
> >>
> >>and you get all the essential mp1 modules installed.
> >
> >
> > Including libapreq? I don't think so. My point was that since you are dealing with the "core" distro, maybe that definition should be expanded to include some other modules that should be built automatically.
>
> Yes, it's in the bundle:
>
> ...
> Apache::Request - Effective methods for dealing with client request data
>
> see Bundle/Apache.pm
OK, sorry, my bad. I've never actually installed mod_perl via CPAN (has anyone?) because
of all the build nuances one has to deal with (and I've usually always mixed in at least
mod_ssl). Besides, The Guide always had such good step-by-step instructions for mp1 ...
- nick
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nick Tonkin {|8^)>
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Re: mod_perl installation simplification, bundles, etc.
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Nick Tonkin wrote:
[...]
>>What you are talking about is the responsibility of Bundle::Apache and
>>Bundle::Apache2. And indeed Bundle::Apache includes Apache::Request, so
>>whenever you get a new perl install do:
>>
>>perl -MCPAN -e install Bundle::Apache
>>
>>and you get all the essential mp1 modules installed.
>
>
> Including libapreq? I don't think so. My point was that since you are dealing with the "core" distro, maybe that definition should be expanded to include some other modules that should be built automatically.
Yes, it's in the bundle:
...
Apache::Request - Effective methods for dealing with client request data
see Bundle/Apache.pm
__________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH ------> Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide ---> http://perl.apache.org
mailto:stas@stason.org http://use.perl.org http://apacheweek.com
http://modperlbook.org http://apache.org http://ticketmaster.com
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Re: mod_perl installation simplification, bundles, etc.
Posted by Nick Tonkin <ni...@tonkinresolutions.com>.
On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Stas Bekman wrote:
> [moving the discussion from another list. see the p5p list for the whole
> story, this is just a snippet of the thread]
I _did_ remove p5p from my reply to you and module_authors :)
>
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> >>>>First of all this is a more generic problem than in my particular
> >>>>case, we already have this problem with all packages living in the
> >>>>core and separately on the CPAN. The indexer introduces a special case
> >>>>for perl core.
>
> Ken Williams wrote:
>
> >>>For what it's worth, my solution to that problem would essentially be
> >>>the same as what I recommended in your case: for core modules that are
> >>>in CPAN independently, the core should essentially "depend" on the CPAN
> >>>versions.
>
> Stas Bekman replied:
>
> >>But it doesn't. Since we want the core to include all the essential modules in
> >>the core. If downloading the dependant modules was a trivial thing, the core
> >>would simply include them, right?
>
> Nick Tonkin followed up:
>
> > But the "core" does not in reality contain all the modules even an end user
> > would need in their environment. I'm thinking specifically of Apache::Request
> > but I'm sure there are others that almost everyone winds up installing.
>
> But I'm not talking about end-user modules at all. Apache::Test and
> ModPerl::MMUtil are used only during the build and testing of the core
> mod_perl and 3rd party ModPerl::/Apache:: modules. All I'm trying to do is to
> minimize the effort of installing/testing things both for users and developers.
>
> What you are talking about is the responsibility of Bundle::Apache and
> Bundle::Apache2. And indeed Bundle::Apache includes Apache::Request, so
> whenever you get a new perl install do:
>
> perl -MCPAN -e install Bundle::Apache
>
> and you get all the essential mp1 modules installed.
Including libapreq? I don't think so. My point was that since you are dealing with the "core" distro, maybe that definition should be expanded to include some other modules that should be built automatically.
>
> Nick Tonkin then wrote:
>
> > What would be cool would be if there were a great CPAN install bundle for
> > mod_perl that installed dependencies in the regular way and also made the
> > configuration/build process a little easier for the end user. Or even a
> > third party solution ... seems to me there's a tool for building and installing
> > apache and its modules; did you ever check out how it did with mod_perl, Stas?
> > (I doubt it's mp2 compatible for sure anyway). I live on FreeBSD so I'm spoiled,
> > I guess, but I really think mod_perl could benefit from having a more hands-off
> > build process, one that in the process would eliminate this problem you are facing.
>
> Nick, you perfectly know that the phrase 'what would be cool' doesn't work in
> the open source world, unless it triggers someone's interest, or you yourself
> make it into a code...
True, very true. I was just throwing it out there. If such a feature did exist I think it would make mp developers' lives simpler too; how much of the support has to do with install/build?
>
> I'm working on a module that will help developers to make their Makefile.PL's
> simpler, I'm seeking comments on the dev modperl list, in the thread I've
> started.
OK, Stas, I see that this is not really what you were talking about. I won't pursue it further.
> And no, I haven't looked at the package you are talking about.
I doubt if it can really do what it claims, at this point.
- nick
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nick Tonkin {|8^)>
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