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Posted to dev@metamodel.apache.org by Kasper Sørensen <i....@gmail.com> on 2013/09/30 10:26:49 UTC
Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Hi everyone,
I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into a
set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community (my
impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
it or whatever might come up!
The draft bylaws can be found here:
https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
Kind regards,
Kasper
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
Bylaws are not needed, but as somebody who grew another project
without them, I can tell you that I wish we had them from the start.
On 14 November 2013 17:25, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, we need actual VOTE when the draft is somewhat ready but looks
> like there are some changes need to be made.
>
> Arvind made a point about having our own bylaws may be not needed but
> I do believe if we want to just "inherit" from ASF bylaws we need some
> kind of guidelines on how Metamodel operates.
> This will contains some exceptions to the rule to move things faster
> than larger ASF communities.
>
> Such as RTC, maybe we could relax it by having lazy consensus for patches.
>
> - Henry
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> The definitions in our by-laws are incorrect. This is a product of the
>> fact that Apache Kafka's bylaws are also incorrect.
>>
>> Specifically, lazy consensus is "silence is consent", and definitely
>> not "3 +1 votes".
>>
>> Fortunately, Apache Hadoop's bylaws seem to have the correct
>> definitions here. So I would suggest we update ours.
>>
>> I would also suggest that we at least have a vote on this (either the
>> modification, or the official adoption of this document by the
>> project) in accordance with our own bylaws. :)
>>
>> On 30 September 2013 10:26, Kasper Sørensen
>> <i....@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into a
>>> set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community (my
>>> impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
>>> required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
>>> the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
>>> it or whatever might come up!
>>>
>>> The draft bylaws can be found here:
>>> https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Kasper
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
Yeah, we need actual VOTE when the draft is somewhat ready but looks
like there are some changes need to be made.
Arvind made a point about having our own bylaws may be not needed but
I do believe if we want to just "inherit" from ASF bylaws we need some
kind of guidelines on how Metamodel operates.
This will contains some exceptions to the rule to move things faster
than larger ASF communities.
Such as RTC, maybe we could relax it by having lazy consensus for patches.
- Henry
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:10 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> The definitions in our by-laws are incorrect. This is a product of the
> fact that Apache Kafka's bylaws are also incorrect.
>
> Specifically, lazy consensus is "silence is consent", and definitely
> not "3 +1 votes".
>
> Fortunately, Apache Hadoop's bylaws seem to have the correct
> definitions here. So I would suggest we update ours.
>
> I would also suggest that we at least have a vote on this (either the
> modification, or the official adoption of this document by the
> project) in accordance with our own bylaws. :)
>
> On 30 September 2013 10:26, Kasper Sørensen
> <i....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into a
>> set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community (my
>> impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
>> required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
>> the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
>> it or whatever might come up!
>>
>> The draft bylaws can be found here:
>> https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Kasper
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.
The definitions in our by-laws are incorrect. This is a product of the
fact that Apache Kafka's bylaws are also incorrect.
Specifically, lazy consensus is "silence is consent", and definitely
not "3 +1 votes".
Fortunately, Apache Hadoop's bylaws seem to have the correct
definitions here. So I would suggest we update ours.
I would also suggest that we at least have a vote on this (either the
modification, or the official adoption of this document by the
project) in accordance with our own bylaws. :)
On 30 September 2013 10:26, Kasper Sørensen
<i....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into a
> set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community (my
> impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
> required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
> the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
> it or whatever might come up!
>
> The draft bylaws can be found here:
> https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
>
> Kind regards,
> Kasper
--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Kasper Sørensen <i....@gmail.com>.
I agree that we should not be too rigid wrt. doing everything "by law"
instead of the choices that are natural for our community. So maybe we
should revisit the minimal amount of votes etc. to make sure that we don't
enforce too strict bylaws or anything like that.
2013/10/1 Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>
> No worries Arvind, I always appreciate your useful input as usual =)
>
> I think as part of incubating process if along the way the bylaws
> seems to be not as useful as we want it to be we could always revisit
> before graduating.
>
> - Henry
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> > Thanks for clarifying Henry. If you have seen this work well for smaller
> > projects then it certainly must add value. I was stating my perspective
> on
> > it only.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arvind Prabhakar
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Hey Arvind,
> >>
> >> I actually asked Kasper to create proposed by laws.
> >>
> >> From my experience with other Apache projects having clear by laws how
> >> podling should operate helps clarify some friction between contributors
> and
> >> new potential contributors.
> >>
> >> Since the project is small I think it is good time to have before it is
> too
> >> late.
> >>
> >> - Henry
> >>
> >> On Monday, September 30, 2013, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi Kasper,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for putting the Bylaws together. While I don't think there is
> >> > anything wrong in having bylaws in place, I do want to mention that
> they
> >> > are typically used for projects that may have significant contention
> in
> >> > operation and management. In the projects that I have actively worked
> on,
> >> > we do not have any bylaws and whenever there is a policy decision
> needed
> >> -
> >> > we just vote on it accordingly. It works very well for us as a matter
> of
> >> > fact.
> >> >
> >> > This of course is a personal choice for the project and hence it is
> >> > entirely upto you and MetaModel community to drive this. I just
> wanted to
> >> > share this other point of view so that you are well informed.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Arvind Prabhakar
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Henry Saputra <
> henry.saputra@gmail.com
> >> <javascript:;>
> >> > >wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
> >> > >
> >> > > Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the
> community =)
> >> > >
> >> > > - Henry
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
> >> > > <i.am.kasper.sorensen@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> > > > Hi everyone,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and
> Hadoop
> >> > into
> >> > > a
> >> > > > set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small
> >> community
> >> > > (my
> >> > > > impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of
> votes
> >> > > > required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's
> input
> >> > on
> >> > > > the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd
> like to
> >> > see
> >> > > > it or whatever might come up!
> >> > > >
> >> > > > The draft bylaws can be found here:
> >> > > > https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Kind regards,
> >> > > > Kasper
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
>
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
No worries Arvind, I always appreciate your useful input as usual =)
I think as part of incubating process if along the way the bylaws
seems to be not as useful as we want it to be we could always revisit
before graduating.
- Henry
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks for clarifying Henry. If you have seen this work well for smaller
> projects then it certainly must add value. I was stating my perspective on
> it only.
>
> Regards,
> Arvind Prabhakar
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hey Arvind,
>>
>> I actually asked Kasper to create proposed by laws.
>>
>> From my experience with other Apache projects having clear by laws how
>> podling should operate helps clarify some friction between contributors and
>> new potential contributors.
>>
>> Since the project is small I think it is good time to have before it is too
>> late.
>>
>> - Henry
>>
>> On Monday, September 30, 2013, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Kasper,
>> >
>> > Thanks for putting the Bylaws together. While I don't think there is
>> > anything wrong in having bylaws in place, I do want to mention that they
>> > are typically used for projects that may have significant contention in
>> > operation and management. In the projects that I have actively worked on,
>> > we do not have any bylaws and whenever there is a policy decision needed
>> -
>> > we just vote on it accordingly. It works very well for us as a matter of
>> > fact.
>> >
>> > This of course is a personal choice for the project and hence it is
>> > entirely upto you and MetaModel community to drive this. I just wanted to
>> > share this other point of view so that you are well informed.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Arvind Prabhakar
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com
>> <javascript:;>
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
>> > >
>> > > Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the community =)
>> > >
>> > > - Henry
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
>> > > <i.am.kasper.sorensen@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > > > Hi everyone,
>> > > >
>> > > > I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop
>> > into
>> > > a
>> > > > set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small
>> community
>> > > (my
>> > > > impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
>> > > > required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input
>> > on
>> > > > the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to
>> > see
>> > > > it or whatever might come up!
>> > > >
>> > > > The draft bylaws can be found here:
>> > > > https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
>> > > >
>> > > > Kind regards,
>> > > > Kasper
>> > >
>> >
>>
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>.
Thanks for clarifying Henry. If you have seen this work well for smaller
projects then it certainly must add value. I was stating my perspective on
it only.
Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:13 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hey Arvind,
>
> I actually asked Kasper to create proposed by laws.
>
> From my experience with other Apache projects having clear by laws how
> podling should operate helps clarify some friction between contributors and
> new potential contributors.
>
> Since the project is small I think it is good time to have before it is too
> late.
>
> - Henry
>
> On Monday, September 30, 2013, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>
> > Hi Kasper,
> >
> > Thanks for putting the Bylaws together. While I don't think there is
> > anything wrong in having bylaws in place, I do want to mention that they
> > are typically used for projects that may have significant contention in
> > operation and management. In the projects that I have actively worked on,
> > we do not have any bylaws and whenever there is a policy decision needed
> -
> > we just vote on it accordingly. It works very well for us as a matter of
> > fact.
> >
> > This of course is a personal choice for the project and hence it is
> > entirely upto you and MetaModel community to drive this. I just wanted to
> > share this other point of view so that you are well informed.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arvind Prabhakar
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com
> <javascript:;>
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
> > >
> > > Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the community =)
> > >
> > > - Henry
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
> > > <i.am.kasper.sorensen@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop
> > into
> > > a
> > > > set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small
> community
> > > (my
> > > > impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
> > > > required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input
> > on
> > > > the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to
> > see
> > > > it or whatever might come up!
> > > >
> > > > The draft bylaws can be found here:
> > > > https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > Kasper
> > >
> >
>
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
Hey Arvind,
I actually asked Kasper to create proposed by laws.
>From my experience with other Apache projects having clear by laws how
podling should operate helps clarify some friction between contributors and
new potential contributors.
Since the project is small I think it is good time to have before it is too
late.
- Henry
On Monday, September 30, 2013, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Hi Kasper,
>
> Thanks for putting the Bylaws together. While I don't think there is
> anything wrong in having bylaws in place, I do want to mention that they
> are typically used for projects that may have significant contention in
> operation and management. In the projects that I have actively worked on,
> we do not have any bylaws and whenever there is a policy decision needed -
> we just vote on it accordingly. It works very well for us as a matter of
> fact.
>
> This of course is a personal choice for the project and hence it is
> entirely upto you and MetaModel community to drive this. I just wanted to
> share this other point of view so that you are well informed.
>
> Regards,
> Arvind Prabhakar
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Henry Saputra <henry.saputra@gmail.com<javascript:;>
> >wrote:
>
> > Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
> >
> > Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the community =)
> >
> > - Henry
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
> > <i.am.kasper.sorensen@gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop
> into
> > a
> > > set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community
> > (my
> > > impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
> > > required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input
> on
> > > the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to
> see
> > > it or whatever might come up!
> > >
> > > The draft bylaws can be found here:
> > > https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
> > >
> > > Kind regards,
> > > Kasper
> >
>
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Arvind Prabhakar <ar...@apache.org>.
Hi Kasper,
Thanks for putting the Bylaws together. While I don't think there is
anything wrong in having bylaws in place, I do want to mention that they
are typically used for projects that may have significant contention in
operation and management. In the projects that I have actively worked on,
we do not have any bylaws and whenever there is a policy decision needed -
we just vote on it accordingly. It works very well for us as a matter of
fact.
This of course is a personal choice for the project and hence it is
entirely upto you and MetaModel community to drive this. I just wanted to
share this other point of view so that you are well informed.
Regards,
Arvind Prabhakar
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
>
> Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the community =)
>
> - Henry
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
> <i....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into
> a
> > set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community
> (my
> > impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
> > required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
> > the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
> > it or whatever might come up!
> >
> > The draft bylaws can be found here:
> > https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Kasper
>
Re: Apache MetaModel bylaws draft published
Posted by Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>.
Cool stuff Kasper, thanks for doing this.
Would definitely love some inputs from other people in the community =)
- Henry
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 1:26 AM, Kasper Sørensen
<i....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've adapted the bylaws of projects such as Apache Kafka and Hadoop into a
> set of bylaws for MetaModel. Since we're still a pretty small community (my
> impression at least) I downsides some of the minimal amount of votes
> required in the 'actions' section though. Would love everyone's input on
> the bylaws - if anything is missing, incorrect, not how you'd like to see
> it or whatever might come up!
>
> The draft bylaws can be found here:
> https://wiki.apache.org/metamodel/Bylaws
>
> Kind regards,
> Kasper