pubsubhubbub

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

@Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
implementation?

D.

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:59 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yeah, the problem is that PubSubHubbub is predicated on the existence of a
> feed (either RSS or Atom). I think it would be workable for the API for
> public content,


Yep my thoughts exactly. Public messages could be made available.


> but otherwise I also see the authentication issue as a big
> problem. I'm pretty sure that some patterns are emerging for authenticated
> content using PubSubHubbub, but I don't think that aspect is very mature
> yet, so we're probably better off waiting another 6 months rather than
> trying to invent something ourselves.
>
> Ethan
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions
> or
> > >> something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the
> options
> > >> for
> > >> really stream-ifying the API.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I think an action that publishes would be perfect.
> > >
> >
> > I was looking at the slides here (http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/) and
> > the
> > last slide has details for a publisher:
> >
> >
> >   - Publish Atom feeds with their content
> >   - Include Hub forwarding information in feeds (optional)
> >   - POST updates to Subscribers and Hubs (optional)
> >
> >
> > I think an action by itself wouldn't be enough. I also don't know how
> > authentication might work with Atom.
> >
> >
> > >> This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions
> currently
> > >> work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost
> > >> always
> > >> set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for
> example.
> > >> PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
> > >> automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.
> > >>
> > >> This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from
> > being
> > >> an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if
> > this
> > >> is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other
> than
> > >> "every X mins"?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Doubt it
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Ethan
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <
> hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then
> > be
> > >> a
> > >> > subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely
> understand
> > is
> > >> > the
> > >> > connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends
> > messages
> > >> to
> > >> > a
> > >> > hub?
> > >> >
> > >> > D.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going
> once
> > >> I'm
> > >> > on
> > >> > > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
> > >> > > repository that has all my progress in it.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The basic approach was in to parts:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
> > >> > (determined
> > >> > > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case
> > we
> > >> > would
> > >> > > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive
> > >> callbacks
> > >> > > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on
> > these
> > >> > > callbacks.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
> > >> > >
> > >> > > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the
> optional
> > >> > > signing
> > >> > > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to
> > reach
> > >> > our
> > >> > > current level of security.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Ethan
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <
> > >> hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> > >> > > >wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your
> pubsubhubbub
> > >> > > > implementation?
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > D.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

Yeah, the problem is that PubSubHubbub is predicated on the existence of a
feed (either RSS or Atom). I think it would be workable for the API for
public content, but otherwise I also see the authentication issue as a big
problem. I'm pretty sure that some patterns are emerging for authenticated
content using PubSubHubbub, but I don't think that aspect is very mature
yet, so we're probably better off waiting another 6 months rather than
trying to invent something ourselves.

Ethan

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:30 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions or
> >> something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the options
> >> for
> >> really stream-ifying the API.
> >>
> >
> > I think an action that publishes would be perfect.
> >
>
> I was looking at the slides here (http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/) and
> the
> last slide has details for a publisher:
>
>
>   - Publish Atom feeds with their content
>   - Include Hub forwarding information in feeds (optional)
>   - POST updates to Subscribers and Hubs (optional)
>
>
> I think an action by itself wouldn't be enough. I also don't know how
> authentication might work with Atom.
>
>
> >> This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions currently
> >> work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost
> >> always
> >> set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for example.
> >> PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
> >> automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.
> >>
> >> This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from
> being
> >> an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if
> this
> >> is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other than
> >> "every X mins"?
> >>
> >
> > Doubt it
> >
> >>
> >> Ethan
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then
> be
> >> a
> >> > subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand
> is
> >> > the
> >> > connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends
> messages
> >> to
> >> > a
> >> > hub?
> >> >
> >> > D.
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once
> >> I'm
> >> > on
> >> > > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
> >> > > repository that has all my progress in it.
> >> > >
> >> > > The basic approach was in to parts:
> >> > >
> >> > > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
> >> > (determined
> >> > > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case
> we
> >> > would
> >> > > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
> >> > >
> >> > > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive
> >> callbacks
> >> > > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on
> these
> >> > > callbacks.
> >> > >
> >> > > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
> >> > >
> >> > > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
> >> > > signing
> >> > > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to
> reach
> >> > our
> >> > > current level of security.
> >> > >
> >> > > Ethan
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <
> >> hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
> >> > > > implementation?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > D.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions or
>> something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the options
>> for
>> really stream-ifying the API.
>>
>
> I think an action that publishes would be perfect.
>

I was looking at the slides here (http://pubsubhubbub.appspot.com/) and the
last slide has details for a publisher:


   - Publish Atom feeds with their content
   - Include Hub forwarding information in feeds (optional)
   - POST updates to Subscribers and Hubs (optional)


I think an action by itself wouldn't be enough. I also don't know how
authentication might work with Atom.


>> This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions currently
>> work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost
>> always
>> set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for example.
>> PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
>> automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.
>>
>> This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from being
>> an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if this
>> is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other than
>> "every X mins"?
>>
>
> Doubt it
>
>>
>> Ethan
>>
>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then be
>> a
>> > subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand is
>> > the
>> > connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends messages
>> to
>> > a
>> > hub?
>> >
>> > D.
>> >
>> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once
>> I'm
>> > on
>> > > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
>> > > repository that has all my progress in it.
>> > >
>> > > The basic approach was in to parts:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
>> > (determined
>> > > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we
>> > would
>> > > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
>> > >
>> > > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive
>> callbacks
>> > > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
>> > > callbacks.
>> > >
>> > > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
>> > >
>> > > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
>> > > signing
>> > > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach
>> > our
>> > > current level of security.
>> > >
>> > > Ethan
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <
>> hirsch.dick@gmail.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
>> > > > implementation?
>> > > >
>> > > > D.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 9:23 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions or
> something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the options
> for
> really stream-ifying the API.
>

I think an action that publishes would be perfect.

>
> This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions currently
> work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost
> always
> set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for example.
> PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
> automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.
>
> This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from being
> an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if this
> is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other than
> "every X mins"?
>

Doubt it

>
> Ethan
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then be a
> > subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand is
> > the
> > connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends messages
> to
> > a
> > hub?
> >
> > D.
> >
> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once I'm
> > on
> > > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
> > > repository that has all my progress in it.
> > >
> > > The basic approach was in to parts:
> > >
> > > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
> > (determined
> > > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we
> > would
> > > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
> > >
> > > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive
> callbacks
> > > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
> > > callbacks.
> > >
> > > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
> > >
> > > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
> > > signing
> > > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach
> > our
> > > current level of security.
> > >
> > > Ethan
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <
> hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
> > > > implementation?
> > > >
> > > > D.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

Ha! That's great. When you say "PubSubHubbub" I say "PSHB" and when you say
"PSHB" I say "PubSubHubbub". Meanwhile, Google says "PUSH". I think I'm
being subconsciously difficult ;-) Please do not be deterred :-)

Ethan

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions or
> something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the options for
> really stream-ifying the API.
>
> This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions currently
> work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost always
> set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for example.
> PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
> automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.
>
> This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from being
> an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if this
> is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other than
> "every X mins"?
>
> Ethan
>
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then be a
>> subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand is
>> the
>> connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends messages to
>> a
>> hub?
>>
>> D.
>>
>> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once I'm
>> on
>> > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
>> > repository that has all my progress in it.
>> >
>> > The basic approach was in to parts:
>> >
>> > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
>> (determined
>> > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we
>> would
>> > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
>> >
>> > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive
>> callbacks
>> > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
>> > callbacks.
>> >
>> > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
>> >
>> > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
>> > signing
>> > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach
>> our
>> > current level of security.
>> >
>> > Ethan
>> >
>> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
>> > > implementation?
>> > >
>> > > D.
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

We would be a subscriber, though we could conceivably set up actions or
something else that acts as a publisher as well. It's one of the options for
really stream-ifying the API.

This would only affect RSS/Atom actions. The way those actions currently
work is that they poll an RSS feed when they are triggered. We almost always
set them up to run regularly using an "every 5 mins" test, for example.
PubSubHubbub gets rid of the need to poll at all, since the hub will
automatically notify the ESME instance every time the feed is updated.

This would kind of change the semantics of the RSS/Atom actions from being
an action to being more of a test, actually. Interesting. Not sure if this
is what we want. Does anyone use RSS/Atom actions with a test other than
"every X mins"?

Ethan

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>wrote:

> Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then be a
> subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand is
> the
> connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends messages to
> a
> hub?
>
> D.
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once I'm
> on
> > my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
> > repository that has all my progress in it.
> >
> > The basic approach was in to parts:
> >
> > 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled
> (determined
> > by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we
> would
> > never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
> >
> > 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive callbacks
> > from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
> > callbacks.
> >
> > I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
> >
> > An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
> > signing
> > scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach
> our
> > current level of security.
> >
> > Ethan
> >
> > On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
> > > implementation?
> > >
> > > D.
> > >
> >
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>]

Sounds way cool - so if I understand PSHB  correctly - we would then be a
subscriber as well as a publisher?  Why I don't completely understand is the
connection to actions? Would there be a PHSB action that sends messages to a
hub?

D.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once I'm on
> my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
> repository that has all my progress in it.
>
> The basic approach was in to parts:
>
> 1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled (determined
> by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we would
> never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.
>
> 2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive callbacks
> from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
> callbacks.
>
> I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)
>
> An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional
> signing
> scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach our
> current level of security.
>
> Ethan
>
> On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <hirsch.dick@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
> > implementation?
> >
> > D.
> >
>

Re: pubsubhubbub

[Ethan Jewett <es...@gmail.com>]

Not very far, but enough to build on, and I plan to keep going once I'm on
my sabbatical (starting in 1 week!!). There is a branch in the svn
repository that has all my progress in it.

The basic approach was in to parts:

1. Add an indicator to the action that the feed is PSHB-enabled (determined
by analyzing the feed when the action is polled), and in this case we would
never start the poller. Instead we would initiate a subscription.

2. The second half was to add a PSHB handler that could receive callbacks
from hubs related to specific actions and post messages based on these
callbacks.

I think I got about 1/3 done with each of these tasks :-)

An additional nice-to-have would be to implement use of the optional signing
scheme for hubs that support it, though this is not necessary to reach our
current level of security.

Ethan

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Richard Hirsch <hi...@gmail.com>wrote:

> @Ethan: Out of curiosity, how far did you get on your pubsubhubbub
> implementation?
>
> D.
>