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Posted to dev@royale.apache.org by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> on 2020/05/29 14:11:17 UTC
Implressions coming back ... Was: Hi and sorry for the mess ...
Exactly ...
understanding the Strands and Beads is something I would mention. Still haven't 100% understood this.
Other thing is that I usually made heavy use of spark skinning ... so in my past applications I used this quite a lot especially in my form-framework I built ... you could just define "widget" tags in the form skin and have "widget-model" objects in the logic and they automatically found each other and I switched the skin of a "widget" depending on the state of the view, the datatype of the form field and the data in it. This seems something I would have to do completely different.
But haven't dug too deep into it. Right now I'm just scratching the surface.
I do want to play around with integrating BabylonJS into a Royale application (3d visualization of an industrial digital twin) ... or getting ECharts into it. But one step at a time __
Chris
Am 29.05.20, 16:04 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>:
Thank you for this narrative, Chris. Helps me understand a lot.
Here's a thing you could help me with in the documentation line: when you
came to Royale after a long period away from the FlexJS world, what were
the elements of Royale that were the least intuitive and the trickiest to
figure out? For me, to give an example, strands and beads have been a
struggle (not so much the concept as finding the right bead to go with the
right component).
I want to provide better guidance in the docs on the tricky areas. Would be
happy for any topics you can suggest, or text you could provide.
Andrew
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello and
> apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
>
> For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly involved in
> the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
> Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the best
> terms.
>
> In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT than
> UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to industrial
> hardware.
> The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then promising
> to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But admittedly
> I didn’t build anything with it.
>
> As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests asking me
> to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial machineries
> state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into UI-stuff.
> Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and instantly
> fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but Greg
> helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting back
> into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
>
> So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was already
> half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the
> project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this was
> done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first time I
> directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
>
> So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are having
> problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I thought
> I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
>
> I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
>
> I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and
> therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I found a
> lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that were
> now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I knew
> quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I
> cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles. Last I
> even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration if
> everything is setup correctly.
>
> This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that especially
> renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling these.
> I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the only
> parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and Ant
> Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work together to
> adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
>
> Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely
> uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I would have
> been happy if he hadn’t done that.
>
> I think this was when things got off the rails.
>
> We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using community
> members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the list
> directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with some
> Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I saw that
> things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to
> prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
>
> I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale
> again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to
> release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following discussions I
> have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”, which
> I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told
> people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple
> times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend them
> as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I would like
> to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.
>
> So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my apology.
>
> If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s probably
> something I have to live with.
>
> In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.
>
>
> Chris
>
>
--
Andrew Wetmore
http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
Re: Implressions coming back ... Was: Hi and sorry for the mess ...
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 8:44 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> That would be awesome ...
>
> they do have charts where you can let the rest of the typical industrial
> UIs just die instantly when comparing to them ;-)
>
Absolutely! I am a HUGE fan of Echarts :-D
>
> Chris
>
>
> Am 29.05.20, 17:42 schrieb "OmPrakash Muppirala" <bi...@gmail.com>:
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:12 AM Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Exactly ...
> >
> > understanding the Strands and Beads is something I would mention.
> Still
> > haven't 100% understood this.
> >
> > Other thing is that I usually made heavy use of spark skinning ...
> so in
> > my past applications I used this quite a lot especially in my
> > form-framework I built ... you could just define "widget" tags in
> the form
> > skin and have "widget-model" objects in the logic and they
> automatically
> > found each other and I switched the skin of a "widget" depending on
> the
> > state of the view, the datatype of the form field and the data in
> it. This
> > seems something I would have to do completely different.
> >
> > But haven't dug too deep into it. Right now I'm just scratching the
> > surface.
> >
> > I do want to play around with integrating BabylonJS into a Royale
> > application (3d visualization of an industrial digital twin) ... or
> getting
> > ECharts into it. But one step at a time __
> >
>
> I have a branch where I started integrating Echarts. Let me try
> dusting it
> up and reviving it.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
>
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 29.05.20, 16:04 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > Thank you for this narrative, Chris. Helps me understand a lot.
> >
> > Here's a thing you could help me with in the documentation line:
> when
> > you
> > came to Royale after a long period away from the FlexJS world,
> what
> > were
> > the elements of Royale that were the least intuitive and the
> trickiest
> > to
> > figure out? For me, to give an example, strands and beads have
> been a
> > struggle (not so much the concept as finding the right bead to
> go with
> > the
> > right component).
> >
> > I want to provide better guidance in the docs on the tricky
> areas.
> > Would be
> > happy for any topics you can suggest, or text you could provide.
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Christofer Dutz <
> > christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say
> hello
> > and
> > > apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
> > >
> > > For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly
> > involved in
> > > the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called
> FlexJS.
> > > Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on
> the
> > best
> > > terms.
> > >
> > > In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side
> of IT
> > than
> > > UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to
> > industrial
> > > hardware.
> > > The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then
> > promising
> > > to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view.
> But
> > admittedly
> > > I didn’t build anything with it.
> > >
> > > As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had
> requests
> > asking me
> > > to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial
> > machineries
> > > state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into
> > UI-stuff.
> > > Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it
> and
> > instantly
> > > fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect,
> but
> > Greg
> > > helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with
> getting
> > back
> > > into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
> > >
> > > So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was
> > already
> > > half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people
> in the
> > > project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times
> this
> > was
> > > done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the
> first
> > time I
> > > directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
> > >
> > > So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are
> > having
> > > problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds,
> so I
> > thought
> > > I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
> > >
> > > I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
> > >
> > > I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects
> and
> > > therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the
> end I
> > found a
> > > lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build.
> Problems that
> > were
> > > now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler.
> Also I
> > knew
> > > quite a few solutions to problems that were previously
> reported. So I
> > > cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the
> profiles.
> > Last I
> > > even added some checks that validate the local machine
> configuration
> > if
> > > everything is setup correctly.
> > >
> > > This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that
> > especially
> > > renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is
> calling
> > these.
> > > I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So
> the
> > only
> > > parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps
> and
> > Ant
> > > Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work
> > together to
> > > adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt
> extremely
> > > uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I
> > would have
> > > been happy if he hadn’t done that.
> > >
> > > I think this was when things got off the rails.
> > >
> > > We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using
> > community
> > > members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating
> on the
> > list
> > > directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video
> chats with
> > some
> > > Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation
> when I
> > saw that
> > > things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them
> to. So to
> > > prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
> > >
> > > I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using
> Royale
> > > again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being
> able to
> > > release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following
> > discussions I
> > > have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion
> mode”,
> > which
> > > I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I
> was told
> > > people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them
> multiple
> > > times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or
> intend
> > them
> > > as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I
> > would like
> > > to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal
> attacks.
> > >
> > > So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my
> > apology.
> > >
> > > If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not –
> that’s
> > probably
> > > something I have to live with.
> > >
> > > In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you
> alone.
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Wetmore
> >
> > http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
> >
> >
>
>
Re: Implressions coming back ... Was: Hi and sorry for the mess ...
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
That would be awesome ...
they do have charts where you can let the rest of the typical industrial UIs just die instantly when comparing to them ;-)
Chris
Am 29.05.20, 17:42 schrieb "OmPrakash Muppirala" <bi...@gmail.com>:
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:12 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Exactly ...
>
> understanding the Strands and Beads is something I would mention. Still
> haven't 100% understood this.
>
> Other thing is that I usually made heavy use of spark skinning ... so in
> my past applications I used this quite a lot especially in my
> form-framework I built ... you could just define "widget" tags in the form
> skin and have "widget-model" objects in the logic and they automatically
> found each other and I switched the skin of a "widget" depending on the
> state of the view, the datatype of the form field and the data in it. This
> seems something I would have to do completely different.
>
> But haven't dug too deep into it. Right now I'm just scratching the
> surface.
>
> I do want to play around with integrating BabylonJS into a Royale
> application (3d visualization of an industrial digital twin) ... or getting
> ECharts into it. But one step at a time __
>
I have a branch where I started integrating Echarts. Let me try dusting it
up and reviving it.
Thanks,
Om
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Am 29.05.20, 16:04 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>:
>
> Thank you for this narrative, Chris. Helps me understand a lot.
>
> Here's a thing you could help me with in the documentation line: when
> you
> came to Royale after a long period away from the FlexJS world, what
> were
> the elements of Royale that were the least intuitive and the trickiest
> to
> figure out? For me, to give an example, strands and beads have been a
> struggle (not so much the concept as finding the right bead to go with
> the
> right component).
>
> I want to provide better guidance in the docs on the tricky areas.
> Would be
> happy for any topics you can suggest, or text you could provide.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello
> and
> > apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
> >
> > For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly
> involved in
> > the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
> > Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the
> best
> > terms.
> >
> > In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT
> than
> > UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to
> industrial
> > hardware.
> > The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then
> promising
> > to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But
> admittedly
> > I didn’t build anything with it.
> >
> > As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests
> asking me
> > to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial
> machineries
> > state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into
> UI-stuff.
> > Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and
> instantly
> > fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but
> Greg
> > helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting
> back
> > into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
> >
> > So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was
> already
> > half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the
> > project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this
> was
> > done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first
> time I
> > directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
> >
> > So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are
> having
> > problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I
> thought
> > I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
> >
> > I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
> >
> > I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and
> > therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I
> found a
> > lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that
> were
> > now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I
> knew
> > quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I
> > cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles.
> Last I
> > even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration
> if
> > everything is setup correctly.
> >
> > This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that
> especially
> > renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling
> these.
> > I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the
> only
> > parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and
> Ant
> > Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work
> together to
> > adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
> >
> > Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely
> > uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I
> would have
> > been happy if he hadn’t done that.
> >
> > I think this was when things got off the rails.
> >
> > We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using
> community
> > members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the
> list
> > directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with
> some
> > Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I
> saw that
> > things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to
> > prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
> >
> > I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale
> > again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to
> > release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following
> discussions I
> > have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”,
> which
> > I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told
> > people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple
> > times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend
> them
> > as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I
> would like
> > to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.
> >
> > So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my
> apology.
> >
> > If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s
> probably
> > something I have to live with.
> >
> > In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
>
Re: Implressions coming back ... Was: Hi and sorry for the mess ...
Posted by OmPrakash Muppirala <bi...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 7:12 AM Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
wrote:
> Exactly ...
>
> understanding the Strands and Beads is something I would mention. Still
> haven't 100% understood this.
>
> Other thing is that I usually made heavy use of spark skinning ... so in
> my past applications I used this quite a lot especially in my
> form-framework I built ... you could just define "widget" tags in the form
> skin and have "widget-model" objects in the logic and they automatically
> found each other and I switched the skin of a "widget" depending on the
> state of the view, the datatype of the form field and the data in it. This
> seems something I would have to do completely different.
>
> But haven't dug too deep into it. Right now I'm just scratching the
> surface.
>
> I do want to play around with integrating BabylonJS into a Royale
> application (3d visualization of an industrial digital twin) ... or getting
> ECharts into it. But one step at a time __
>
I have a branch where I started integrating Echarts. Let me try dusting it
up and reviving it.
Thanks,
Om
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> Am 29.05.20, 16:04 schrieb "Andrew Wetmore" <co...@gmail.com>:
>
> Thank you for this narrative, Chris. Helps me understand a lot.
>
> Here's a thing you could help me with in the documentation line: when
> you
> came to Royale after a long period away from the FlexJS world, what
> were
> the elements of Royale that were the least intuitive and the trickiest
> to
> figure out? For me, to give an example, strands and beads have been a
> struggle (not so much the concept as finding the right bead to go with
> the
> right component).
>
> I want to provide better guidance in the docs on the tricky areas.
> Would be
> happy for any topics you can suggest, or text you could provide.
>
> Andrew
>
> On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:38 AM Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I would like to take the opportunity of a quiet Friday and say hello
> and
> > apologize for any mess my appearance here might have caused.
> >
> > For all of those to whom I might be a new face, I was strongly
> involved in
> > the past in the Flex project when Royale was still called FlexJS.
> > Let’s say our ways parted for quite some time. Possibly not on the
> best
> > terms.
> >
> > In the past I have been working sort of on the opposite side of IT
> than
> > UI: In the Apache PLC4X project. Here I’m mainly talking to
> industrial
> > hardware.
> > The thing is: I loved Flex, I loved what FlexJS/Royale was then
> promising
> > to be so I kept following the project from a birds-eye-view. But
> admittedly
> > I didn’t build anything with it.
> >
> > As PLC4X was maturing more and more I more and more had requests
> asking me
> > to actually build application using PLC4X to show industrial
> machineries
> > state and to interact with it. Therefore I had to go back into
> UI-stuff.
> > Still having Royale in the back of my mind, I played with it and
> instantly
> > fell back in love with it. I knew not everything was perfect, but
> Greg
> > helped me greatly with the AMF stuff, Carlos helped me with getting
> back
> > into the saddle with the changed Royale concepts.
> >
> > So I chatted with a few folks as I noticed the last release was
> already
> > half a year ago to what the issue was. I was told that people in the
> > project were hesitant to participate as a RM as the last times this
> was
> > done it was perceived as a pretty intense task. This was the first
> time I
> > directly heard about “the 13 steps”.
> >
> > So I sort of have a trail of helping other projects if they are
> having
> > problems with releasing and in particular with Maven builds, so I
> thought
> > I’d give it a try and have a look if I can help.
> >
> > I forked all 3 Royale repos and had a look at the maven build.
> >
> > I found quite a lot of things I recognized from other projects and
> > therefore could imagine what they were intended for. In the end I
> found a
> > lot of workarounds for previous problems in the build. Problems that
> were
> > now obsolete or for which other approaches are much simpler. Also I
> knew
> > quite a few solutions to problems that were previously reported. So I
> > cleaned up the plugin configuration, I cleaned up with the profiles.
> Last I
> > even added some checks that validate the local machine configuration
> if
> > everything is setup correctly.
> >
> > This was intended as a proposal for improvement. I knew that
> especially
> > renaming profiles will have an influence on tooling that is calling
> these.
> > I did test if it broke the normal Ant build, but it didn’t. So the
> only
> > parts I could imagine would be affected would be Jenkins Steps and
> Ant
> > Automation built around Maven. My hope was that we could work
> together to
> > adjust these parts and in the end all be happy.
> >
> > Unfortunately the PR was merged within a timeframe I felt extremely
> > uncomfortable with. I even told the person who merged it that I
> would have
> > been happy if he hadn’t done that.
> >
> > I think this was when things got off the rails.
> >
> > We started an extremely unhealthy communication with me using
> community
> > members as proxies as I didn’t feel welcome in participating on the
> list
> > directly (To the reasons why, I have had one on one video chats with
> some
> > Royale folks). I decided to subscribe despite my hesitation when I
> saw that
> > things weren’t transported 100% the way I had intended them to. So to
> > prevent things from going off the rails even more I subscribed.
> >
> > I had 100% good intentions … after all I wanted to start using Royale
> > again. But seeing the first responses blaming me of not being able to
> > release made me switch to “defensive mode” … in the following
> discussions I
> > have to admit that I also switched to “confrontive discussion mode”,
> which
> > I shouldn’t have. I would like to apologize for this. Also I was told
> > people felt personally attacked by my emails. I re-read them multiple
> > times. I would say that I showed dissent, but I didn’t see or intend
> them
> > as attacks. If on the other side they were perceived as such, I
> would like
> > to apologize and assure they were not meant as personal attacks.
> >
> > So I hope anyone here that felt attacked by me will accept my
> apology.
> >
> > If you folks want to, I will be happy to assist, if not – that’s
> probably
> > something I have to live with.
> >
> > In that case I will probably just unsubscribe and leave you alone.
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
>