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Posted to dev@commons.apache.org by Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> on 2020/07/25 18:25:00 UTC
[Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Hello.
In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs and
> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim for
> 4.0, whenever that happens.
Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
(or a trivial use of it).
Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
Is everyone on the same page?
Regards,
Gilles
[1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
[2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
[3] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
[4] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
[5] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
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Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com>.
Hi.
2020-07-25 21:03 UTC+02:00, Alex Herbert <al...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>> On 25 Jul 2020, at 19:25, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
>>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
>>> and
>>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim for
>>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
>> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
>> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
>> (or a trivial use of it).
>> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
>
> I am the the one who implemented the copy and paste to fix that bug.
A bug-fix was needed, and, up to yesterday, the *only* way
to fix it was copy/paste.
IIUC Gary's request, the next major version of [Lang] could
stop providing utilities which exist in other components, in
order to reduce "coding horrors".
> Note
> that the alternatives would be:
>
> - to bring in a dependency on RNG
+1
[But I doubt this will be accepted.]
> - to change to using ThreadLocalRandom for the same functionality
>
> I considered it the minimal change to port the algorithm and remain
> dependency free.
As noted above, the problem is not the fix, but the fact that
with bloat increases the bug count.
> However the code can still be fixed with one of the
> alternatives.
The proposed alternative in to drop RandomUtils altogether
in the next major release of [Lang]; and refer users to [RNG].
Do you see any problem?
> My suggestion for RandomUtils would be to remove the use of java.lang.Random
> and use ThreadLocalRandom. This class would support all of the method in
> RandomUtils except:
>
> public static float nextFloat(final float startInclusive, final float
> endExclusive)
>
> The method that had a bug in LANG-1592 is actually provided by the JDK if
> you use ThreadLocalRandom. A switch to this generator could accompany the
> RandomUtils class being marked as deprecated and stated as delegating to
> ThreadLocalRandom. The RandomUtils then becomes a pass through to
> ThreadLocalRandom, for example:
>
> public static double nextDouble(final double startInclusive, final double
> endExclusive) {
> return ThreadLocalRandom.current().nextDouble(startInclusive,
> endExclusive);
> }
Wrapping a one-liner == code bloat.
>>
>> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
>> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
>> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
>> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
>
> A brief look at RandomStringUtils shows it uses:
>
> o.a.c.lang3.RandomUtils:
> public static int nextInt(final int startInclusive, final int endExclusive)
>
> java.util.Random:
> public int nextInt(int bound)
>
> So would be easy to support after removal of RandomUtils.
>
> The [text] RandomStringGenerator provides the same functionality as
> RandomStringUtils (sampling from a character range). There is a speed
> difference (see partially related RNG-54 [1]). The method in Text is slower
> than that in Lang. But I only looked at generating Hex characters in
> RNG-54.
The final comment was already proposing what we (re)discuss
in this thread, i.e. put algorithms that deal with String/char in
[Text].
I'd be surprised that the RNG part of the algorithm would be
responsible for the performance loss in [Text] vs [Lang].
Any problem fixing [Text] in that respect?
> For ease of maintenance dropping RandomStringUtils in favour of the method
> in [text] seems a good approach. Note that lang has methods for specific
> character sets. This could be added as a feature to the
> RandomStringGenerator.Builder in text so switching from one to the other is
> an easier refactoring task.
Sure.
Regards,
Gilles
>
> Alex
>
> [1]
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/RNG-54?focusedCommentId=16582795&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16582795
> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/RNG-54?focusedCommentId=16582795&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-16582795>
>
>>
>> Is everyone on the same page?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Gilles
>>
>> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
>> [3]
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
>> [4]
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
>> [5]
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
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Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Alex Herbert <al...@gmail.com>.
> On 25 Jul 2020, at 19:25, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs and
>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim for
>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
> (or a trivial use of it).
> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
I am the the one who implemented the copy and paste to fix that bug. Note that the alternatives would be:
- to bring in a dependency on RNG
- to change to using ThreadLocalRandom for the same functionality
I considered it the minimal change to port the algorithm and remain dependency free. However the code can still be fixed with one of the alternatives.
My suggestion for RandomUtils would be to remove the use of java.lang.Random and use ThreadLocalRandom. This class would support all of the method in RandomUtils except:
public static float nextFloat(final float startInclusive, final float endExclusive)
The method that had a bug in LANG-1592 is actually provided by the JDK if you use ThreadLocalRandom. A switch to this generator could accompany the RandomUtils class being marked as deprecated and stated as delegating to ThreadLocalRandom. The RandomUtils then becomes a pass through to ThreadLocalRandom, for example:
public static double nextDouble(final double startInclusive, final double endExclusive) {
return ThreadLocalRandom.current().nextDouble(startInclusive, endExclusive);
}
>
> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
A brief look at RandomStringUtils shows it uses:
o.a.c.lang3.RandomUtils:
public static int nextInt(final int startInclusive, final int endExclusive)
java.util.Random:
public int nextInt(int bound)
So would be easy to support after removal of RandomUtils.
The [text] RandomStringGenerator provides the same functionality as RandomStringUtils (sampling from a character range). There is a speed difference (see partially related RNG-54 [1]). The method in Text is slower than that in Lang. But I only looked at generating Hex characters in RNG-54.
For ease of maintenance dropping RandomStringUtils in favour of the method in [text] seems a good approach. Note that lang has methods for specific character sets. This could be added as a feature to the RandomStringGenerator.Builder in text so switching from one to the other is an easier refactoring task.
Alex
[1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/RNG-54?focusedCommentId=16582795&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16582795 <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/RNG-54?focusedCommentId=16582795&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-16582795>
>
> Is everyone on the same page?
>
> Regards,
> Gilles
>
> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
> [3] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
> [4] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
> [5] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com>.
> On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:11 AM, Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On Jul 26, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
>> And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
>
> I would think 4.0 might happen in conjunction with the release of Java 17 (the next expected LTS version I’ve seen for java). I think that’s when we can make breaking changes off Java 7.
>
Furthermore, I think we’ll have a lot of major version changes in commons surrounding that java release.
> -Rob
>
>>
>> Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
>>
>>> Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
>>> classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
>>> functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
>>> can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
>>>
>>> Gary
>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
>>>>> There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
>>> future
>>>> 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
>>>> suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
>>>> gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
>>>>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
>>>> and
>>>>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
>>> for
>>>>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
>>>> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
>>>> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
>>>> (or a trivial use of it).
>>>> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
>>>>
>>>> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
>>>> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
>>>> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
>>>> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
>>>>
>>>> Is everyone on the same page?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Gilles
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
>>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
>>>> [3]
>>>>
>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
>>>> [4]
>>>>
>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
>>>> [5]
>>>>
>>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com>.
> On Jul 26, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Don't you mean Java 8? Are you suggesting that Lang 4 would be based on
> Java 11?
Oh...yes, pardon I don’t count correctly sometimes :-p
>
> Gary
>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:12 Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> On Jul 26, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
>>> And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
>>
>> I would think 4.0 might happen in conjunction with the release of Java 17
>> (the next expected LTS version I’ve seen for java). I think that’s when we
>> can make breaking changes off Java 7.
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>>
>>> Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
>>>
>>>> Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
>>>> classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
>>>> functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
>>>> can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
>>>>> There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
>>>> future
>>>>> 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
>>>>> suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bruno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
>>>>> gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
>>>>>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
>>>>> and
>>>>>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
>>>> for
>>>>>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
>>>>> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
>>>>> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
>>>>> (or a trivial use of it).
>>>>> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
>>>>>
>>>>> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
>>>>> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
>>>>> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
>>>>> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is everyone on the same page?
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Gilles
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
>>>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
>>>>> [3]
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
>>>>> [4]
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
>>>>> [5]
>>>>>
>>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Don't you mean Java 8? Are you suggesting that Lang 4 would be based on
Java 11?
Gary
On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 10:12 Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
> > And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
>
> I would think 4.0 might happen in conjunction with the release of Java 17
> (the next expected LTS version I’ve seen for java). I think that’s when we
> can make breaking changes off Java 7.
>
> -Rob
>
> >
> > Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
> >
> >> Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
> >> classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
> >> functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
> >> can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
> >>> There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
> >> future
> >>> 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
> >>> suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Bruno
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
> >>> gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hello.
> >>>
> >>> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> >>>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
> >>> and
> >>>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
> >> for
> >>>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
> >>> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
> >>> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
> >>> (or a trivial use of it).
> >>> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
> >>>
> >>> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
> >>> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
> >>> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
> >>> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
> >>>
> >>> Is everyone on the same page?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Gilles
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
> >>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
> >>> [3]
> >>>
> >>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
> >>> [4]
> >>>
> >>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
> >>> [5]
> >>>
> >>
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Rob Tompkins <ch...@gmail.com>.
> On Jul 26, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
> And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
I would think 4.0 might happen in conjunction with the release of Java 17 (the next expected LTS version I’ve seen for java). I think that’s when we can make breaking changes off Java 7.
-Rob
>
> Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
>
>> Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
>> classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
>> functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
>> can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
>>> There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
>> future
>>> 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
>>> suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruno
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
>>> gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
>>>> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
>>> and
>>>> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
>> for
>>>> 4.0, whenever that happens.
>>> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
>>> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
>>> (or a trivial use of it).
>>> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
>>>
>>> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
>>> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
>>> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
>>> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
>>>
>>> Is everyone on the same page?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Gilles
>>>
>>> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
>>> [3]
>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
>>> [4]
>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
>>> [5]
>>>
>> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
There are no plans that I know of right now for 4.0 except that we know we
want to drop deprecated code.
Gary
On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 07:36 Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
> And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
>
> Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
>
> > Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
> > classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
> > functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
> > can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
> > > There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
> > future
> > > 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
> > > suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruno
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
> > > gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello.
> > >
> > > In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> > > > Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant
> APIs
> > > and
> > > > points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
> > for
> > > > 4.0, whenever that happens.
> > > Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
> > > is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
> > > (or a trivial use of it).
> > > Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
> > >
> > > The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
> > > functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
> > > to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
> > > utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
> > >
> > > Is everyone on the same page?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Gilles
> > >
> > > [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
> > > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
> > > [3]
> > >
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
> > > [4]
> > >
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
> > > [5]
> > >
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Xeno Amess <xe...@gmail.com>.
btw, is there a roadmap/timeline for 4.0?
And will we continue maintaining 3.x then?
Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com> 于2020年7月26日周日 下午7:25写道：
> Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
> classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
> functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
> can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
>
> Gary
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
> > There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a
> future
> > 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
> > suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
> >
> >
> > Bruno
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
> > gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello.
> >
> > In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> > > Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
> > and
> > > points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim
> for
> > > 4.0, whenever that happens.
> > Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
> > is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
> > (or a trivial use of it).
> > Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
> >
> > The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
> > functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
> > to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
> > utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
> >
> > Is everyone on the same page?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Gilles
> >
> > [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
> > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
> > [3]
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
> > [4]
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
> > [5]
> >
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
> >
> >
>
Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by Gary Gregory <ga...@gmail.com>.
Note that Lang does not and should not depend on Text for example. Some
classes that are in Lang now have been deprecated in favor of similar
functionality in Text, the Str[ing]Substitutor packages for instance. We
can remove that Lang code in 4.0.
Gary
On Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 04:16 Bruno P. Kinoshita <ki...@apache.org> wrote:
> Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me.
> There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a future
> 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or
> suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
>
>
> Bruno
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <
> gilleseran@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello.
>
> In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> > Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs
> and
> > points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim for
> > 4.0, whenever that happens.
> Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
> is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
> (or a trivial use of it).
> Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
>
> The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
> functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
> to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
> utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
>
> Is everyone on the same page?
>
> Regards,
> Gilles
>
> [1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
> [3]
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
> [4]
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
> [5]
> https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@commons.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@commons.apache.org
>
>
Re: [Lang][All] Drop pseudo-random number utilities?
Posted by "Bruno P. Kinoshita" <ki...@apache.org>.
Not following the thread, but from your explanation it sounds OK to me. There are other parts of Lang that could do with some trimming for a future 4.x release I think, either moving some code to other components or suggesting the use of JVM code (e.g. some of the date/time methods).
Bruno
On Sunday, 26 July 2020, 6:26:05 am NZST, Gilles Sadowski <gi...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello.
In the thread[1] from which the below quote is extracted:
> Would you be willing to provide a PR that deprecates the relevant APIs and
> points to their equivalent in RNG? It will be more cruft we can trim for
> 4.0, whenever that happens.
Gary mentions that copy/paste is a "coding horror". My understanding
is that he advises dropping functionality available from "Commons RNG"
(or a trivial use of it).
Case in point is a bug recently reported.[2]
The change amounts to removing "RandomUtils"[3] and moving all
functionality from "RandomStringUtils"[4] (and removing it too) over
to "Commons Text" that already defines several similar (perhaps all?)
utilities[5] using a more robust approach.
Is everyone on the same page?
Regards,
Gilles
[1] https://markmail.org/message/s2o3c57537id37jt
[2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LANG-1592
[3] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomUtils.java;h=b1c7f0fb147c586a57cd498734bfb5bc92f19f37;hb=HEAD
[4] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-lang.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/lang3/RandomStringUtils.java;h=0d6df4eed0d91bbd32ad378c28400fdf049ee542;hb=HEAD
[5] https://gitbox.apache.org/repos/asf?p=commons-text.git;a=blob;f=src/main/java/org/apache/commons/text/RandomStringGenerator.java;h=d8e38e4614dba548ef764225b87626f3a4cda434;hb=HEAD
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