[Axis2] IRC chat log 2004-10-13

[Aleksander Slominski <as...@cs.indiana.edu>]

summary: today discussion was about remaining OM issues (not much)
and initial OM performance results - we did not have enough time
to discuss WSDL processing.

please make sure to visit and add topics to agenda for next week chat at:
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/ChatAgenda

thanks,

alek

[10/13/2004 8:11 AM] <alek> shoud we get started?
[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] <Srinath> hi all
[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] <Ajith> yeah I guess so
[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] <Srinath> yap
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[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] <chathura> hi all
[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] <Chinthaka_Away> hi all
[10/13/2004 8:12 AM] =-= Chinthaka_Away is now known as Chinthaka
[10/13/2004 8:13 AM] === Chinthaka <~c...@220.247.246.118> ``Eran Chinthaka''
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[10/13/2004 8:13 AM] <alek> hi all
[10/13/2004 8:14 AM] <Ajith> Hi all
[10/13/2004 8:14 AM] <Ajith> whats on the agenda?
[10/13/2004 8:15 AM] <alek> http://wiki.apache.org/ws/ChatAgenda ?
[10/13/2004 8:15 AM] <Chinthaka> 1.  OM design issues,
[10/13/2004 8:15 AM] <Chinthaka> I updated some of the current issues
[10/13/2004 8:15 AM] <Chinthaka> in wiki
[10/13/2004 8:15 AM] <dims> hi all
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[10/13/2004 8:19 AM] <Chinthaka> BTW, alek : shall we start our discussion with OM Design issues, while 
looking @ the perf results ?
[10/13/2004 8:19 AM] [ERROR] Missing required parameter message.
[10/13/2004 8:20 AM] =-= YOU are now known as alek_reconnected
[10/13/2004 8:20 AM] <Chinthaka> (according to the Agenda :) )
[10/13/2004 8:20 AM] <alek_reconnected> i wonder if we have now all design issues?
[10/13/2004 8:20 AM] <alek_reconnected> i did not see any new issues added ...
[10/13/2004 8:21 AM] <Chinthaka> Hope U have seen my comments on the things u have added
[10/13/2004 8:22 AM] <alek_reconnected> yes - good comments
[10/13/2004 8:22 AM] <Chinthaka> :|
[10/13/2004 8:22 AM] <alek_reconnected> (for reference 
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/FrontPage/Architecture/OM )
[10/13/2004 8:23 AM] <alek_reconnected> (see 1.2 Current issues )
[10/13/2004 8:24 AM] <Chinthaka> helloooo
[10/13/2004 8:24 AM] <Ajith> yeah
[10/13/2004 8:25 AM] <chathura> are we done with OM design issues if any?
[10/13/2004 8:25 AM] <Ajith> I have a problem about the third issue
[10/13/2004 8:25 AM] <Chinthaka> are we done with design issues, or is there any ?
[10/13/2004 8:25 AM] <Ajith> making the text node just  string!
[10/13/2004 8:25 AM] <alek_reconnected> i think so for now
[10/13/2004 8:26 AM] <Ajith> oh so we are not discussing them right now ???
[10/13/2004 8:26 AM] <Chinthaka> Ajith, for the time being, I think we can't do that in our current impls
[10/13/2004 8:26 AM] <alek_reconnected> if you find new ssues please bring them to mailing list and 
then to wiki (when there is some consensus)
[10/13/2004 8:26 AM] <Chinthaka> how do u all think abt OM performance results ?
[10/13/2004 8:27 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: post your view to mailing list
[10/13/2004 8:27 AM] <alek_reconnected> i did not understand pefromance numbers
[10/13/2004 8:27 AM] <Chinthaka> http://wiki.apache.org/ws/FrontPage/Architecture/OMPerf
[10/13/2004 8:28 AM] <Chinthaka> these numbers are provided by Sosnoski's XML Bench
[10/13/2004 8:28 AM] <Ajith> well it is like this
[10/13/2004 8:28 AM] <Chinthaka> whats the prob u have with those results ?
[10/13/2004 8:29 AM] <Ajith> I made three test classes actually with the same code to walk the tree but 
only the build section being different
[10/13/2004 8:29 AM] <alek_reconnected> there is many zeros
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <Chinthaka> alek : its like this
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <alek_reconnected> results are in milliseconds? seconds? how many
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <alek_reconnected> how many times tests were run?
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <Chinthaka>  AXTM-normal means we do not prebuilt the model
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <Chinthaka> in the memory
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <Ajith> building of a document in OM means just creating the doc object and thats it
[10/13/2004 8:30 AM] <alek_reconnected> what is  AXM-2-llm?
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <Ajith> 50 times
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <alek_reconnected> is it the same as AXLLM?!
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <Chinthaka> yeah
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <Ajith> axm llm is the OM impl with link lists
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <alek_reconnected> what does it mean "normal"?
[10/13/2004 8:31 AM] <Ajith> it has no tables inside
[10/13/2004 8:32 AM] <Ajith> Normal means it is not parsing the stream in advance - effectively that is 
our usecase and hence the "normal" mode
[10/13/2004 8:32 AM] <alek_reconnected> how minimum? walk time can be zero?!
[10/13/2004 8:33 AM] <alek_reconnected> you mean headers are parsed and body is streamed?
[10/13/2004 8:33 AM] <Chinthaka> thats a problem I also have
[10/13/2004 8:33 AM] <Ajith> prebuilt is the object structure is built before walking
[10/13/2004 8:33 AM] <Chinthaka> but Sosnoski has provided the code for JDom !!1
[10/13/2004 8:33 AM] <Ajith> well in this case we have no headers or body
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[10/13/2004 8:34 AM] <Ajith> even the soap XML was taken as just an XML document
[10/13/2004 8:34 AM] <Chinthaka> alek : diconnected ...........
[10/13/2004 8:35 AM] <Ajith> ooops
[10/13/2004 8:35 AM] <Srinath> :(
[10/13/2004 8:35 AM] -->| Harsha (Harsha@CPE-147-10-38-89.vic.bigpond.net.au) has joined #apache-axis
[10/13/2004 8:35 AM] <alek_reconnected> i am still here :)
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <Ajith> aah
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <Ajith> finally :)
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <Harsha> Hi guys
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <Ajith> BTW hi harsha
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <chathura> hi harsha
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <Chinthaka> hi Harsha
[10/13/2004 8:36 AM] <alek_reconnected> i have edited and hopefully labels are now consistent? 
http://wiki.apache.org/ws/FrontPage/Architecture/OMPerf
[10/13/2004 8:37 AM] <Harsha> Asanka is here as well.
[10/13/2004 8:37 AM] <Chinthaka> thats correct Alek
[10/13/2004 8:38 AM] <Ajith> if not for the simple spelling mistakes you got the idea :)
[10/13/2004 8:38 AM] <alek_reconnected> it looks to me that we need to remove "minimum * time" or fix 
how it is computed with more fine grained timer
[10/13/2004 8:38 AM] <alek_reconnected> having 0 ms as time to build or walk tree is not useful 
informaiton ...
[10/13/2004 8:39 AM] <Chinthaka> yeah
[10/13/2004 8:39 AM] <Chinthaka> we were looking at the average time
[10/13/2004 8:39 AM] <Ajith> hmmm
[10/13/2004 8:39 AM] <Chinthaka> BTW : I corrected a mistake in the wiki, which Alek just changed
[10/13/2004 8:40 AM] <alek_reconnected> in case of ATXM-nomral and AXM-2-llm there should be NA instead 
of zero for built time
[10/13/2004 8:40 AM] <alek_reconnected> there is no build time - so it is is always zero ...
[10/13/2004 8:40 AM] <alek_reconnected> now how  AXM-2-llm average build-time is 1ms???
[10/13/2004 8:41 AM] <alek_reconnected> is this correct?
[10/13/2004 8:42 AM] <Ajith> hmmmm
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <Ajith> I guess this zero actually means that the time it takes is much less in 
order of milliseconds
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <chathura> ajith can you pls say what invloves in the build process in the AXM 2 llm
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <Ajith> well it is making the document object and thats it
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <chathura> is it that you only initialise the stuff and not really build the OM am 
i right
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <chathura> ok
[10/13/2004 8:43 AM] <Ajith> the parser is not adavanced
[10/13/2004 8:44 AM] <Ajith> i mean "advanced"
[10/13/2004 8:44 AM] <alek_reconnected> i have edited again wiki page :)
[10/13/2004 8:44 AM] <alek_reconnected> see now table only with avergae times
[10/13/2004 8:45 AM] <Chinthaka> :)
[10/13/2004 8:45 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: how much initialization it does?
[10/13/2004 8:46 AM] <Ajith> it only makes the document object  (with no children) and thats it
[10/13/2004 8:47 AM] <alek_reconnected> so it is strange that this takes 1ms?!
[10/13/2004 8:47 AM] <Ajith> I will send you the code and you will get it
[10/13/2004 8:47 AM] <alek_reconnected> i think we need additional test data for multiple walks - not 
just first walk - so it ocrresponds to case when multiple andlers are working on XML tree with headers
[10/13/2004 8:47 AM] <Ajith> But yeah since you mentioned it it DOES seem unlikely
[10/13/2004 8:47 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajits: please put code in SVN
[10/13/2004 8:48 AM] <Ajith> ok
[10/13/2004 8:48 AM] <Chinthaka> ok, can we come to a conclusion a noew saying OM is OK ??
[10/13/2004 8:48 AM] <Ajith> I dont have SVN commit rights so I will send the code to Srinath now
[10/13/2004 8:49 AM] <Chinthaka> so that we can start integrating OM to engine
[10/13/2004 8:49 AM] <Chinthaka> and to see the big picture ?
[10/13/2004 8:50 AM] <chathura> the numbers look pretty ok to me
[10/13/2004 8:51 AM] <Chinthaka> yeah, then shall we start the discussion on WSDL Processing ?
[10/13/2004 8:51 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith:ypu can send also patch to axis-dev and i will commit it
[10/13/2004 8:52 AM] <alek_reconnected> sorry i missed it but which OM is OK?
[10/13/2004 8:52 AM] <alek_reconnected> how did you come to this conclusion?!
[10/13/2004 8:52 AM] <Ajith> hopefully at least the llm
[10/13/2004 8:52 AM] <Chinthaka> isn't this two impls seems ok ?
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[10/13/2004 8:52 AM] <alek_reconnected> what about design issues? JDOM or other API support?
[10/13/2004 8:53 AM] <alek_reconnected> putting some number in wiki that are not easy to reproduce is 
not enough
[10/13/2004 8:53 AM] <alek_reconnected> (i can not reproduce if i do not have tests source code)
[10/13/2004 8:53 AM] <alek_reconnected> moreover i am concerned about what exactly tests are testing
[10/13/2004 8:53 AM] <alek_reconnected> like for example how walk time correpsonds to SOAP processing 
model ...
[10/13/2004 8:54 AM] <Chinthaka> We tested OM on Sosnpski's bench, as you suggested earlier ..
[10/13/2004 8:54 AM] <chathura> the numbers are pretty comparable with jdom wrt the selected example 
and with differed building
[10/13/2004 8:54 AM] <alek_reconnected> i can see that JDOM is faster walk time than AXM-2-llm - 2x 
faster ...
[10/13/2004 8:55 AM] <Ajith> yep
[10/13/2004 8:55 AM] <Ajith> but we did not test the memory complexity - remember??
[10/13/2004 8:55 AM] <Chinthaka> but look at the build time as well
[10/13/2004 8:55 AM] <alek_reconnected> as i said number are meningless if they can not be reproduced 
.... you did not give information how to rerun tests, what machine was used for testing, what JDK 
version, ...
[10/13/2004 8:56 AM] <Ajith> aah
[10/13/2004 8:56 AM] <alek_reconnected> when tests multiple times do you get the same numbers?
[10/13/2004 8:56 AM] <Ajith> Will you give me one day to complete the report
[10/13/2004 8:56 AM] <Ajith> on this performance
[10/13/2004 8:56 AM] <chathura> ok can i ask this
[10/13/2004 8:57 AM] <alek_reconnected> actually JDOM seems to be 6x faster in walk time for 
periodic.xml - so that may make big difference when there ar emultiple SOAP handlers ...
[10/13/2004 8:57 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: i would prefer not ot close this until evrybody had time 
ot run tests ...
[10/13/2004 8:58 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: first thing please make test source code available
[10/13/2004 8:58 AM] <Ajith> yeah I know - But I will probaly complete all the information in the wiki 
tomorrow
[10/13/2004 8:58 AM] <alek_reconnected> ok
[10/13/2004 8:58 AM] <Ajith> it is already being done
[10/13/2004 8:59 AM] <Ajith> I mean Srinath is checking in the code
[10/13/2004 8:59 AM] <alek_reconnected> make sure to include step-by-step instructions on who to run tests
[10/13/2004 9:00 AM] <alek_reconnected> (classpath, how to integrate with sosnoski driver, etc)
[10/13/2004 9:01 AM] <chathura> think i have to go now
[10/13/2004 9:01 AM] <chathura> i wanted to talk about WSDL processing think i ll have to differ it or 
do it in da mailing list
[10/13/2004 9:01 AM] <Srinath> alek see om_xmlbeanch @ scrach :)
[10/13/2004 9:01 AM] <Chinthaka> I also got to go :(
[10/13/2004 9:02 AM] <chathura> good night/day
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[10/13/2004 9:02 AM] <Chinthaka> hopefully we can make all the things about the tests soon
[10/13/2004 9:02 AM] =-= Chinthaka is now known as Chinthaka_away
[10/13/2004 9:03 AM] <Ajith> I will try my best to complete it by tomorrow
[10/13/2004 9:03 AM] <Harsha> We have some questions. Whom can we email them to?
[10/13/2004 9:03 AM] <alek_reconnected> multiple ierations are to get meaningful results out of testing ...
[10/13/2004 9:03 AM] <alek_reconnected> Harsha: i think the best place is axis-dev make sure you have 
[AXIS2] in subject line
[10/13/2004 9:04 AM] <Harsha> alek:what is the full email address?
[10/13/2004 9:04 AM] <Ajith> BTW Harsha  I might be able to help you in solving some of the initial 
problems
[10/13/2004 9:04 AM] <Srinath> ws-axis@ws.apache.org
[10/13/2004 9:05 AM] <Chinthaka_away> axis-dev@ws.apache.org
[10/13/2004 9:05 AM] <Srinath> sorry axis-dev
[10/13/2004 9:05 AM] <Harsha> Thanks. ajith: what is your email address?
[10/13/2004 9:06 AM] <Ajith> ajith.ranabahu@*.com
[10/13/2004 9:06 AM] <Harsha> Thanks. Much appreciated.
[10/13/2004 9:07 AM] <Ajith> BTW Alek I will try to write a small guid into running the perf tests and 
will work on a complete report tomorrow
[10/13/2004 9:07 AM] <Ajith> Harsha : no prob
[10/13/2004 9:07 AM] <Srinath> harsha:pls feel free to ask from any of in case of help :)
[10/13/2004 9:08 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: do not put too much work into guide - just test 
instructions on somebody by askiing to follow them
[10/13/2004 9:08 AM] <alek_reconnected> (i can do testing but it may be more efficient f2f)
[10/13/2004 9:09 AM] <Harsha> Sure. Will need the email addresses.
[10/13/2004 9:09 AM] <Srinath> harsha:hemapani@*.lk
[10/13/2004 9:10 AM] <Ajith> Alek : ok. But I get your point
[10/13/2004 9:10 AM] <Srinath> harsha:your arddes
[10/13/2004 9:10 AM] <Ajith> I mean anybody should be able to run the tests themselves and verify the 
results
[10/13/2004 9:11 AM] <Harsha> Mine is harshap@*.au. Asanka's is jayewardena@*.com
[10/13/2004 9:11 AM] <alek_reconnected> Mine is aslom@*.edu
[10/13/2004 9:11 AM] <Ajith> BTW I guess the AXTM code may not be uptodate in the SVN since I have no 
rights to update it
[10/13/2004 9:12 AM] <Srinath> I will updte it ajith;)
[10/13/2004 9:12 AM] <Ajith> sure
[10/13/2004 9:12 AM] <Ajith> we will do it tomorrow then
[10/13/2004 9:12 AM] <Ajith> I am starving :)
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <alek_reconnected> Ajith: send updates to axis-dev and i (or soembody else) will 
commit them
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <alek_reconnected> ok
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <alek_reconnected> i think time to finish
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <alek_reconnected> we do not want ppl suffering ...
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <Ajith> Alek : sure
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <Srinath> ok :)
[10/13/2004 9:13 AM] <Ajith> :)
[10/13/2004 9:14 AM] <Srinath> bye all ..
[10/13/2004 9:14 AM] <alek_reconnected> next week WSDL ...
[10/13/2004 9:14 AM] <Harsha> Thanks and bye to all
[10/13/2004 9:14 AM] <alek_reconnected> bye all
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[10/13/2004 9:14 AM] =-= YOU are now known as alek_away