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Posted to dev@ws.apache.org by Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> on 2010/11/03 23:15:21 UTC
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Hi
I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of
days however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache
projects that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked
if it was a mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of
people replied that they actually think that it indeed was a big
mistake and that was it, no action whatsoever.
So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that
can see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is
willing to undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our
mailboxes filled-up with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
mistake?
Lars
On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus, welcome
> to the new "combined" WS community!
>
> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right now.
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Thilina Gunarathne <cs...@gmail.com>.
How about using prefixes for each project and then adding filters in the
mail clients, just like how we used to do in Axis2 as well as in ws-commons.
thanks,
Thilina
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 4:26 AM, Jochen Wiedmann
<jo...@gmail.com>wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a
> very
> > diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able
> to
> > provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
> > MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
>
>
> It is also the best example of a mailing list with an extremely bad
> ratio between noise and content, at least for me.
>
>
>
> > If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm
> the
> > rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
> > Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit
> patches,
> > foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
> > graduate.
>
> XML-RPC is most likely not a project which will grow. It is in
> maintenance mode and has been just that for a couple of years. It is
> extremely unlikely that you have a chance to attract interest for the
> ws project under its contributors / users, unless they move their
> professional interest, which would be an event unrelated to either
> projects.
>
> Jochen
>
> --
> I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
>
--
http://thilinag.blogspot.com
https://www.cs.indiana.edu/~tgunarat/
http://www.linkedin.com/in/thilina
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>.
Hi Alexander,
I *assure* you, unsubscription does in fact work. If you unsubscribed and it
didn't work, the likely cause is that you were in fact subscribed from two or
more different email addresses (perhaps to two formerly-different lists which
merged into dev, so both subscriptions were carried forward).
If you carefully read the message that ezmlm sends you, you will see that you
can tell exactly what email address it thinks is subscribed by looking at the
"Return-Path" header. Then it also explains exactly how to turn that into a
specific unsubscribe request that should work even if you aren't sending the
mail from that address. As it happens, it also explains exactly what to do
if the above fails.
We are working to deal with this issue - all future mails (hopefully
including this one :)) will contain a footer describing how to unsubscribe,
and we are splitting off the subversion commits to a separate list, which
should help a lot.
Thanks,
--Glen
On 11/4/2010 7:28 PM, Alexander Hachmann wrote:
> Hi,
> further more, I would like do add the comment, that I have now tried several
> times
> to unsubscribe me from this list, as I am bombed with mails I do not care or
> at the
> moment. Though this unsubscription did not work dispite having received the
> confirmation.
> Please split the list again, and make unsubscription work!
> As we all can see, many people are trying hard to get removed since lists
> have been
> merged. Please provide a solution for this!!
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> Alexander
>
> Am 04.11.10 23:42, schrieb Deepal jayasinghe:
>> +1, to create a new mailing list for commits
>>>> I have no objections to the creation of a separate mailing lists for
>>>> commits.
>>> +1 - yes please.
>>>
>>> Tom Jordahl
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Alexander Hachmann <pu...@thesofa.de>.
Hi,
further more, I would like do add the comment, that I have now tried
several times
to unsubscribe me from this list, as I am bombed with mails I do not
care or at the
moment. Though this unsubscription did not work dispite having received the
confirmation.
Please split the list again, and make unsubscription work!
As we all can see, many people are trying hard to get removed since
lists have been
merged. Please provide a solution for this!!
Thanks and Regards,
Alexander
Am 04.11.10 23:42, schrieb Deepal jayasinghe:
> +1, to create a new mailing list for commits
>>> I have no objections to the creation of a separate mailing lists for commits.
>> +1 - yes please.
>>
>> Tom Jordahl
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Deepal jayasinghe <de...@gmail.com>.
+1, to create a new mailing list for commits
>> I have no objections to the creation of a separate mailing lists for commits.
> +1 - yes please.
>
> Tom Jordahl
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
RE: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Tom Jordahl <tj...@adobe.com>.
> I have no objections to the creation of a separate mailing lists for commits.
+1 - yes please.
Tom Jordahl
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@ws.apache.org
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Andreas Veithen <an...@gmail.com>.
I have no objections to the creation of a separate mailing lists for commits.
Andreas
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:03, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, Andreas,
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Andreas Veithen
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> These message were caused by a single commit that updated the Axiom
>> site after the 1.2.10 release.
>
> If so, then the first thing we should do is
>
> a) check, whether a ws-commits list exists and have it created, if not
> b) make sure that commits are directed to that list.
>
> Regardless of whether mailing lists are joined or not, commits should
> be separate.
>
> Jochen
>
> --
> I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
Hi, Andreas,
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Andreas Veithen
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> These message were caused by a single commit that updated the Axiom
> site after the 1.2.10 release.
If so, then the first thing we should do is
a) check, whether a ws-commits list exists and have it created, if not
b) make sure that commits are directed to that list.
Regardless of whether mailing lists are joined or not, commits should
be separate.
Jochen
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
It should also be noted that Dan asked if the community felt that we
needed a separate commit list, and the decision not to have one was
provisional. We can have one now.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:00 AM, Andreas Veithen
<an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:29, Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
>> It wasn't my intention to insult people, but my experience has shown that
>> people are more likely to react to direct statements. So I apologize to
>> those that felt insulted.
>>
>> My use of the word SPAM was meant with respect to the amount messages
>> received and the fact that they are of no interest to me, just like SPAM is.
>> I am and have been on a number of mailing lists but not one has managed to
>> send 29 messages about commits in only ONE minute.
>
> These message were caused by a single commit that updated the Axiom
> site after the 1.2.10 release. This is standard procedure in ASF
> projects that generate their sites using Maven. However, in most
> cases, the number of updates is so high that the SVN notification is
> suppressed. This happened for the 1.2.9 release [1]. One may indeed
> wonder if it is reasonable to send full SVN commit notifications
> consisting of 29 parts (it seems that the limit is 50 parts), but we
> don't have control over that (at least I think). It should be noted
> that this happens with a frequency that is of order of once per year.
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/thread/rhh56q4assnqqrcw
>
>> My use of the word professional was meant with respect to merging the lists
>> without asking the people affect beforehand (there was at least nothing on
>> the XML-RPC list) and after a couple of days asking if it was a mistake and
>> when people answer that is was ignore that.
>>
>> Sagara, no, not redoing the change but undo the change, or at least remove
>> the XML-RPC list from the merger.
>>
>> I assumed that the mailing lists were intended to serve as communication
>> channels among people involved. The flood of unsubscribes should have shown
>> that people aren't very happy about this merger and every unsubscribe means
>> one less possible contributer. To me it sounded like there was a lack of
>> contributers and how many contributers do you think you will get by having
>> them bombarded with messages?
>>
>>
>> On 04-11-2010 09:26, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Daniel Kulp<dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a
>>>> very
>>>> diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able
>>>> to
>>>> provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
>>>> MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
>>>
>>> It is also the best example of a mailing list with an extremely bad
>>> ratio between noise and content, at least for me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm
>>>> the
>>>> rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
>>>> Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit
>>>> patches,
>>>> foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
>>>> graduate.
>>>
>>> XML-RPC is most likely not a project which will grow. It is in
>>> maintenance mode and has been just that for a couple of years. It is
>>> extremely unlikely that you have a chance to attract interest for the
>>> ws project under its contributors / users, unless they move their
>>> professional interest, which would be an event unrelated to either
>>> projects.
>>>
>>> Jochen
>>>
>>
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Andreas Veithen <an...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:29, Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
> It wasn't my intention to insult people, but my experience has shown that
> people are more likely to react to direct statements. So I apologize to
> those that felt insulted.
>
> My use of the word SPAM was meant with respect to the amount messages
> received and the fact that they are of no interest to me, just like SPAM is.
> I am and have been on a number of mailing lists but not one has managed to
> send 29 messages about commits in only ONE minute.
These message were caused by a single commit that updated the Axiom
site after the 1.2.10 release. This is standard procedure in ASF
projects that generate their sites using Maven. However, in most
cases, the number of updates is so high that the SVN notification is
suppressed. This happened for the 1.2.9 release [1]. One may indeed
wonder if it is reasonable to send full SVN commit notifications
consisting of 29 parts (it seems that the limit is 50 parts), but we
don't have control over that (at least I think). It should be noted
that this happens with a frequency that is of order of once per year.
[1] http://markmail.org/thread/rhh56q4assnqqrcw
> My use of the word professional was meant with respect to merging the lists
> without asking the people affect beforehand (there was at least nothing on
> the XML-RPC list) and after a couple of days asking if it was a mistake and
> when people answer that is was ignore that.
>
> Sagara, no, not redoing the change but undo the change, or at least remove
> the XML-RPC list from the merger.
>
> I assumed that the mailing lists were intended to serve as communication
> channels among people involved. The flood of unsubscribes should have shown
> that people aren't very happy about this merger and every unsubscribe means
> one less possible contributer. To me it sounded like there was a lack of
> contributers and how many contributers do you think you will get by having
> them bombarded with messages?
>
>
> On 04-11-2010 09:26, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Daniel Kulp<dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a
>>> very
>>> diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able
>>> to
>>> provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
>>> MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
>>
>> It is also the best example of a mailing list with an extremely bad
>> ratio between noise and content, at least for me.
>>
>>
>>
>>> If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm
>>> the
>>> rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
>>> Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit
>>> patches,
>>> foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
>>> graduate.
>>
>> XML-RPC is most likely not a project which will grow. It is in
>> maintenance mode and has been just that for a couple of years. It is
>> extremely unlikely that you have a chance to attract interest for the
>> ws project under its contributors / users, unless they move their
>> professional interest, which would be an event unrelated to either
>> projects.
>>
>> Jochen
>>
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk>.
It wasn't my intention to insult people, but my experience has shown
that people are more likely to react to direct statements. So I
apologize to those that felt insulted.
My use of the word SPAM was meant with respect to the amount messages
received and the fact that they are of no interest to me, just like SPAM
is. I am and have been on a number of mailing lists but not one has
managed to send 29 messages about commits in only ONE minute.
My use of the word professional was meant with respect to merging the
lists without asking the people affect beforehand (there was at least
nothing on the XML-RPC list) and after a couple of days asking if it was
a mistake and when people answer that is was ignore that.
Sagara, no, not redoing the change but undo the change, or at least
remove the XML-RPC list from the merger.
I assumed that the mailing lists were intended to serve as communication
channels among people involved. The flood of unsubscribes should have
shown that people aren't very happy about this merger and every
unsubscribe means one less possible contributer. To me it sounded like
there was a lack of contributers and how many contributers do you think
you will get by having them bombarded with messages?
On 04-11-2010 09:26, Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Daniel Kulp<dk...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a very
>> diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able to
>> provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
>> MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
>
> It is also the best example of a mailing list with an extremely bad
> ratio between noise and content, at least for me.
>
>
>
>> If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm the
>> rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
>> Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit patches,
>> foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
>> graduate.
> XML-RPC is most likely not a project which will grow. It is in
> maintenance mode and has been just that for a couple of years. It is
> extremely unlikely that you have a chance to attract interest for the
> ws project under its contributors / users, unless they move their
> professional interest, which would be an event unrelated to either
> projects.
>
> Jochen
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 1:11 AM, Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org> wrote:
> The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a very
> diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able to
> provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
> MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
It is also the best example of a mailing list with an extremely bad
ratio between noise and content, at least for me.
> If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm the
> rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
> Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit patches,
> foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
> graduate.
XML-RPC is most likely not a project which will grow. It is in
maintenance mode and has been just that for a couple of years. It is
extremely unlikely that you have a chance to attract interest for the
ws project under its contributors / users, unless they move their
professional interest, which would be an event unrelated to either
projects.
Jochen
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Daniel Kulp <dk...@apache.org>.
On Wednesday 03 November 2010 6:15:21 pm Lars Schnoor wrote:
> Hi
>
> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of
> days however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache
> projects that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked
> if it was a mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of
> people replied that they actually think that it indeed was a big
> mistake and that was it, no action whatsoever.
> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that
> can see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is
> willing to undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our
> mailboxes filled-up with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
> mistake?
This was NOT a mistake, at least not for the dev lists. ALL of the
developers (well, speicifically the PMC members) are tasked with the oversight
of the ENTIRE ws project, not a small subset or single project in it. As
such, the developers need to be aware of everything that is going on in all of
the projects.
The BEST model to look at is the commons project at Apache. They have a very
diverse set of sub projects and have been very successful at being able to
provide adequate oversight on all the projects. How do they do it: they
MANDATE that there are not separate dev lists for each project.
If the traffic about a particulare subproject grows enough to overwelm the
rest of the projects, that's usually a sign that it's ready to spin out.
Thus, if you don't like it, start participating with XML-RPC, submit patches,
foster ideas, etc.... and help it grow to a point where it's ready to
graduate.
Dan
>
> Lars
>
> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> > The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
> > welcome to the new "combined" WS community!
> >
> > We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
> > archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
> > now.
--
Daniel Kulp
dkulp@apache.org
http://dankulp.com/blog
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Andreas Veithen <an...@gmail.com>.
No, Axis2 always had its own mailing lists and they have been migrated
to the new TLP. There is another factor: in a rather inactive project
(inactive in the sense of no more development), a dev list tends to be
used as a user list. When all of a sudden the subscribers of such a
list are confronted with the dev list traffic of an active and healthy
project, they may indeed be overwhelmed. Looking at the previous
comments, this seems to be the case for the xmlrpc list. Since we not
only merged the dev lists, but created a separate user list (it seems
that xmlrpc-user was only an alias for xmlrpc-dev, and the other
subprojects never had a user list), I think that the subscribers who
are in that case should take advantage of this and move to this new
user list.
Andreas
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 21:30, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> People who are leaving are very likely people who really wanted to follow
> Axis2, or who subscribed once upon a time to one of the defunct subprojects.
> I very much doubt that anyone with a real commitment to any of the live
> components is storming off over a blip of email.
> People so rude that they repeatedly send 'UNSUBSCRIBE' to the main list even
> after two or three explanations are people we can do without.
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
People who are leaving are very likely people who really wanted to follow
Axis2, or who subscribed once upon a time to one of the defunct subprojects.
I very much doubt that anyone with a real commitment to any of the live
components is storming off over a blip of email.
People so rude that they repeatedly send 'UNSUBSCRIBE' to the main list even
after two or three explanations are people we can do without.
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Lawrence Mandel <lm...@ca.ibm.com>.
Lars,
"And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
mistake?"
My point was to state the obvious, that the Apache WS community has lost a
lot of mailing list subscribers since merging all of the lists (I don't
know if this was expected), and to start discussion on whether this merge
was a mistake and should be undone.
Moving the commits to another list should alleviate some of the pain.
Whether it will be enough to stop the exodus of subscribers remains to be
seen.
As far as I'm concerned, losing interested people's attention is counter
productive to an open source (or any) project.
Lawrence
From:
Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk>
To:
dev@ws.apache.org
Date:
11/04/2010 05:46 AM
Subject:
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Hi
I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of
days however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache
projects that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked
if it was a mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of
people replied that they actually think that it indeed was a big
mistake and that was it, no action whatsoever.
So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that
can see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is
willing to undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our
mailboxes filled-up with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
mistake?
Lars
On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
welcome
> to the new "combined" WS community!
>
> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
now.
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
I will leave it to Dan, and especially Glen, to rehash the history of
this. I am just quoting board reports and responding to a perceived
personal attack.
On Nov 3, 2010, at 7:21 PM, Don Albertson <dg...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> I take issue with Benson's assertion that there are not enough people to support any one of the individual projects.
> I can't speak for the other lists, but XML-RPC was serving its small interest group very well.
> Merging it into this monstrosity will eventually drive people to unsub thereby losing what was working well.
> Doing such a thing without troubling to inquire is sheer hubris.
> dga
>
>
> Benson Margulies said (on or about) 11/3/2010 6:42 PM:
>> Lars,
>>
>> This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
>> modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
>> individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
>> is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
>> our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
>> stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Benson Margulies
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor<La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
>>> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of days
>>> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
>>> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was a
>>> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
>>> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was it,
>>> no action whatsoever.
>>> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
>>> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing to
>>> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes filled-up
>>> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
>>> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
>>> mistake?
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>>>> welcome
>>>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>>>
>>>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>>>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Sagara Gunathunga <sa...@gmail.com>.
Some of the WS projects are inter-depending , some of them don't have enough
developers. With my past experience on Woden I'm completely agree with
facts mentioned in the original proposal [1] also I believe this is an
important move we made. I accept there can be exceptional cases those who
want to live alone, I'm not sure whether we can use kind of a filtering
mechanism for them or create a separate list for them .
BTW do you think asking to redo this change only because of a one project is
a good option ?
[1] -
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/ws-commons-dev/201010.mbox/%3C201010121710.29798.dkulp@apache.org%3E
Thanks !
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Don Albertson <dg...@psu.edu> wrote:
>
> I take issue with Benson's assertion that there are not enough people to
> support any one of the individual projects.
> I can't speak for the other lists, but XML-RPC was serving its small
> interest group very well.
> Merging it into this monstrosity will eventually drive people to unsub
> thereby losing what was working well.
> Doing such a thing without troubling to inquire is sheer hubris.
> dga
>
>
> Benson Margulies said (on or about) 11/3/2010 6:42 PM:
>
> Lars,
>>
>> This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
>> modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
>> individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
>> is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
>> our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
>> stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Benson Margulies
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor<La...@ifad.dk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
>>> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of
>>> days
>>> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
>>> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was
>>> a
>>> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
>>> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was
>>> it,
>>> no action whatsoever.
>>> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
>>> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing
>>> to
>>> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes
>>> filled-up
>>> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
>>> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
>>> mistake?
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>
>>>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>>>> welcome
>>>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>>>
>>>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>>>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
--
Sagara Gunathunga
Blog - http://ssagara.blogspot.com
Web - http://people.apache.org/~sagara/
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Don Albertson <dg...@psu.edu>.
I take issue with Benson's assertion that there are not enough people
to support any one of the individual projects.
I can't speak for the other lists, but XML-RPC was serving its small
interest group very well.
Merging it into this monstrosity will eventually drive people to unsub
thereby losing what was working well.
Doing such a thing without troubling to inquire is sheer hubris.
dga
Benson Margulies said (on or about) 11/3/2010 6:42 PM:
> Lars,
>
> This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
> modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
> individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
> is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
> our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
> stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
>
> Best Regards
> Benson Margulies
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor<La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
>> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of days
>> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
>> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was a
>> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
>> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was it,
>> no action whatsoever.
>> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
>> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing to
>> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes filled-up
>> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
>> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
>> mistake?
>>
>> Lars
>>
>> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>>> welcome
>>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>>
>>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>>> now.
>>>
>
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
His use of the words 'professional' and 'spam' was a direct insult, I
gave it the least offensive interpretation I could think of.
The fact remains that the individual ws components cannot stand on
their own as ASF projects. So they have to work together. That include
reading a certain amount of email about the overall infrastructure.
If I am wrong, and XML-RPC can muster it's own viable community of
active contributors, I will be happy to vote +1 for a tlp with its own
mailing lists.
as of now, however , the board's direction is to eliminate
subprojects. I am perfectly prepared to read any amount of XML-RPC
email and vote as needed for its releases, and I expect XML-RPC people
to do the same for axiom, xmlschema, and the rest.
web sites are a required part of the job of a pmc. if you want to read
the dev list of a pmc, you are going to see email on that subject
unless you set up some filters.
I am sorry to be harsh, but I won't accept being labelled a spammer
for doing the necessary work of this pmc.
On Nov 3, 2010, at 7:16 PM, Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Benson,
>
> Lars is a long time contributor. In other words, he was obviously
> interested in the dev list of XML-RPC, *not* in the users list. (Which
> didn't exist, btw.) Therefore, I think that your reply is missing his
> point.
>
> Jochen
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lars,
>>
>> This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
>> modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
>> individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
>> is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
>> our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
>> stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Benson Margulies
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
>>> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of days
>>> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
>>> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was a
>>> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
>>> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was it,
>>> no action whatsoever.
>>> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
>>> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing to
>>> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes filled-up
>>> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
>>> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
>>> mistake?
>>>
>>> Lars
>>>
>>> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>>>> welcome
>>>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>>>
>>>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>>>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>>>> now.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@gmail.com>.
Benson,
Lars is a long time contributor. In other words, he was obviously
interested in the dev list of XML-RPC, *not* in the users list. (Which
didn't exist, btw.) Therefore, I think that your reply is missing his
point.
Jochen
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:42 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lars,
>
> This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
> modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
> individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
> is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
> our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
> stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
>
> Best Regards
> Benson Margulies
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
>> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of days
>> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
>> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was a
>> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
>> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was it,
>> no action whatsoever.
>> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
>> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing to
>> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes filled-up
>> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
>> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
>> mistake?
>>
>> Lars
>>
>> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>
>>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>>> welcome
>>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>>
>>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>>> now.
>>>
>>
>
--
I Am What I Am And That's All What I Yam (Popeye)
Re: Welcome to dev@ws.apache.org
Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.
Lars,
This is a dev list for an Apache project that hosts several small
modules. There are not enough developers involved in any one of the
individual projects to support independent mailing lists. No one here
is 'professional'. We are all volunteers. If you are not interested in
our internal developmental deliberations, then you are welcome to
stick to the user list, which will be much lighter in traffic.
Best Regards
Benson Margulies
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Lars Schnoor <La...@ifad.dk> wrote:
> Hi
>
> I originally signed up for the XML-RPC mailing list because that was the
> project that was and still is interesting to me. In the last couple of days
> however I have been bombarded with SPAM from all kinds of Apache projects
> that I am not interested in at all. At some point someone asked if it was a
> mistake to merge the Apache mailing lists and a couple of people replied
> that they actually think that it indeed was a big mistake and that was it,
> no action whatsoever.
> So my question is very simple, is there some professional person that can
> see that it was a very bad idea to merge the mailing lists and is willing to
> undo this mistake, or do we people that don't what our mailboxes filled-up
> with unrelated SPAM, have to unsubscribe?
> And Lawrence, was there any point in your message asking if it was a
> mistake?
>
> Lars
>
> On 23-10-2010 03:38, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>
>> The lists should now all be merged into just dev@ and users@. Thus,
>> welcome
>> to the new "combined" WS community!
>>
>> We left the Muse lists alone for right now. Did we reach a concensus to
>> archive Muse? I wasn't 100% possitive so we left those alone for right
>> now.
>>
>