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Posted to derby-dev@db.apache.org by Daniel John Debrunner <dj...@debrunners.com> on 2005/10/06 17:52:45 UTC
Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM -
a possible approach
David W. Van Couvering wrote:
> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
> Wiki site as a proposal?
Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
Dan.
Re: Questions about what is component to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
Sorry ...
Not module, but component.
Best regareds.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "TomohitoNakayama" <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 2:59 PM
Subject: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
> Hello.
>
> I post my questions around shared module.
>
> What is the modules to be shread ?
>
> David shows me the list of modules to be shared in next url.
> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ListOfSharedComponent
>
> However, David justs lists them (At least I recognized as so) and,
> I think we need to think about this list in order to make it clear what is the module to be shared .
>
> At first, I think we should think next :
> * Definition of each element in the lists.
>
> And I think what we need to be careful about is as next :
> * Is granularity of this list reasonable as shared module ?
> * Are there any other elements which should be included in this lists ?
> * Is it possible to share the element as the shared module ?
>
> Best regards .
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
>
>
>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns in
>> email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>
>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>> be a bit stuck :)
>>
>> David
>>
>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>
>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>
>>> Naka
>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>
>>> */
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>>> PSM - a possible approach
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
>>>> the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
Re: Questions about what is component to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Sorry ....
Component....
>Can you write down summary of your security module at next url ?
>http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/Security_encryption/decryption_of_network_traffic,_passwords,_etc%2e
Can you write down summary of your security component at next url ?
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/Security_encryption/decryption_of_network_traffic,_passwords,_etc%2e
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: TomohitoNakayama
To: Derby Development
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:31 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Hello Francois .
I think your case would be good example.
Can you write down summary of your security module at next url ?
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/Security_encryption/decryption_of_network_traffic,_passwords,_etc%2e
//I think this url would be suitable place for ...
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: Francois Orsini
To: Derby Development
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
I think we already pretty much agreed on principle that there was such a need as sharing some of the components logic - we can
go down the path of identiying everything but at the same time we should get started on this - missing components logic to be shared
can always be added as they are being found down the path. Right now there is a quite a bit of logic in Security that needs to be
shared and am looking forward to the components sharing infrastructure to be in place...I've already worked on refactoring some of
the currently (non-shared) security classes...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/126 - Release Date: 2005/10/09
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/126 - Release Date: 2005/10/09
Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello Francois .
I think your case would be good example.
Can you write down summary of your security module at next url ?
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/Security_encryption/decryption_of_network_traffic,_passwords,_etc%2e
//I think this url would be suitable place for ...
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: Francois Orsini
To: Derby Development
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
I think we already pretty much agreed on principle that there was such a need as sharing some of the components logic - we can go
down the path of identiying everything but at the same time we should get started on this - missing components logic to be shared
can always be added as they are being found down the path. Right now there is a quite a bit of logic in Security that needs to be
shared and am looking forward to the components sharing infrastructure to be in place...I've already worked on refactoring some of
the currently (non-shared) security classes...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/126 - Release Date: 2005/10/09
Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Posted by Francois Orsini <fr...@gmail.com>.
I think we already pretty much agreed on principle that there was such a
need as sharing some of the components logic - we can go down the path of
identiying everything but at the same time we should get started on this -
missing components logic to be shared can always be added as they are being
found down the path. Right now there is a quite a bit of logic in Security
that needs to be shared and am looking forward to the components sharing
infrastructure to be in place...I've already worked on refactoring some of
the currently (non-shared) security classes...
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Hi, Tomohito. I understand your concerns about sharing code. I think
we all agree there are many advantages in sharing code (I have seen this
many times), but I can also see that it can lead you into traps if you
are not careful.
I agree with you that any new shared component should be put up for a
vote. I can add this to the shared component guidelines page.
With this in place, are you satisfied with the guidelines we have in
place so far?
Thanks,
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
>
>
> I have suspect on next two items.
>
> * '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code <snip> message
> semantics, datatypes, etc.
> Because of synmetry between server and client, some part of
> networking protocol component would be similar implementation between
> server and client .
> However, I think it can be somekind of trap because there would
> exists difference of processing between server and client .
>
> * '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that is
> common across client and server
> I'm not sure required security is same between server and client.
>
> Well, all they are just suspect , and not anymore than suspect now .
> I can't assert that they are evil, unless they are explained more
> concretely.
> // To say the trugh, I feel some kind of beauty in sharing code in DRDA
> because of synmetry between server and client , even !
>
>
> Writing this mail, I noticed that what my concern is the impact and
> danger of shared component .
> I think shared code can become trap very easily,
> because shared component can share , not only something which should be
> shared , but also something which should not be shared , between programs.
> I feel danger about such a bunch of code being created with silence.
>
> Then, I propose next :
> It is subject of voting to create new shared component . New shared
> component require passing the vote .
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
> <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:34 AM
> Subject: Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re:
> Discussions on Wik ... )
>
>
>> If I understand correctly, your concerns Tomohito is that you don't know
>> whether the versioning guidelines apply until you know better what it is
>> we are trying to share. I added my comments to the Wiki page on this,
>> and am including it in this email for ongoing discussion:
>>
>> ====
>>
>> Let me try to give a sense of what the actual '''components''' would be,
>> not just the kinds of things that could be shared. Again, these are all
>> possibilities, not realities, and
>>
>> * '''Common services''' -- these are basic level services that can
>> be used across multiple subsystems. This includes things like
>> internationalization, common error messages and SQL states,
>> !SanityManager, logging/tracing, version info, and other miscellaneous
>> shareable services. It is more than possible that functionality which
>> starts in this component could end up evolving to be its own separate
>> component, but that does not need to be determined ahead of time.
>> * '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code that is used to
>> implement the DRDA protocol. Having this in a shared location helps to
>> ensure that the client and server code are in sync in terms of message
>> types, message semantics, datatypes, etc.
>> * '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that
>> is common across client and server
>> * '''Common JDBC functionality''' -- this is highly debatable, but
>> it could be there is code between the client and embedded drivers that
>> is shareable. Again, just a thought, not a commitment.
>>
>> In terms of how each of these components manages their sharing, I really
>> do think this is something that can be defined later. What we want to
>> establish are the ground rules for how a shared component is versioned,
>> distributed, and what compatibility rules we need to follow. At this
>> point we are making no claims to the underlying architecture and
>> structure of specific shared components, and I do not feel this needs to
>> be identified at this time. For example, we may decide we want a
>> common way to load an implementation of an interface at runtime; that is
>> a separate discussion and does not need to be defined prior to getting
>> in the basic infrastructure as defined in
>> SharedComponentVersioningGuidelines.
>>
>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> I post my questions around shared module.
>>>
>>> What is the modules to be shread ?
>>>
>>> David shows me the list of modules to be shared in next url.
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ListOfSharedComponent
>>>
>>> However, David justs lists them (At least I recognized as so) and,
>>> I think we need to think about this list in order to make it clear what
>>> is the module to be shared .
>>>
>>> At first, I think we should think next :
>>> * Definition of each element in the lists.
>>>
>>> And I think what we need to be careful about is as next :
>>> * Is granularity of this list reasonable as shared module ?
>>> * Are there any other elements which should be included in this lists ?
>>> * Is it possible to share the element as the shared module ?
>>>
>>> Best regards .
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>
>>> Naka
>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>
>>> */
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>>> PSM - a possible approach
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns
>>>> in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>>>
>>>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>>>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>>>> be a bit stuck :)
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> /*
>>>>>
>>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Naka
>>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>>
>>>>> */
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the
>>>>>>> wiki for
>>>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>>>> summarize
>>>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>>>> 2005/10/06
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date:
>>> 2005/10/07
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello Francois.
I think it is better if your comment was summarized at
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/Security_encryption/decryption_of_network_traffic,_passwords,_etc%2e
//Maybe the title should be changed .....
It will help someone who vote to consider about your new shared component .
//Even though voting were not be held, it will be a good writing for the component .
Best regards .
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by Francois Orsini <fr...@gmail.com>.
On 10/12/05, TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp> wrote:
>
> Hello.
>
>
> I have suspect on next two items.
>
> * '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code <snip> message semantics,
> datatypes, etc.
> Because of synmetry between server and client, some part of networking
> protocol component would be similar implementation
> between server and client .
> However, I think it can be somekind of trap because there would exists
> difference of processing between server and client .
>
> * '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that is
> common across client and server
> I'm not sure required security is same between server and client.
>
> Well, all they are just suspect , and not anymore than suspect now .
> I can't assert that they are evil, unless they are explained more
> concretely.
> // To say the trugh, I feel some kind of beauty in sharing code in DRDA
> because of synmetry between server and client , even !
>
>
> Writing this mail, I noticed that what my concern is the impact and danger
> of shared component .
> I think shared code can become trap very easily,
> because shared component can share , not only something which should be
> shared , but also something which should not be shared ,
> between programs.
> I feel danger about such a bunch of code being created with silence.
>
> Then, I propose next :
> It is subject of voting to create new shared component . New shared
> component require passing the vote .
>
>
> Best regards.
>
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
>
>
Tomohito,
Pluggable Security Infrastructure is *not* what shared component is bringing
to the table - This is definitely a term which can lead to confusion to the
notion of shared security component - Pluggable Security Infrastructure is
an (infrastructure) implementation and is not directly linked to the way
security logic is shared across the client and the server. This should not
be mentioned as part of Shared component discussion - not saying you did ;)
Again, there is logic which involves the use of security algorithms which is
shared across the client and the server - For instance,
encrypting/decrypting ciphered bytes can and will make use of similar if not
identical code/logic from *both* the client and a remote Derby engine - to
give you an example, some of this logic right now has code *duplicated* in
different packages - this is not what we want and we want to share such
logic which is being used by the client and the server - Again, this is one
particular example - Other ones for instance we particular and computed
hashed bytes logic which would have the implementation logic being shared by
the client and the Derby engine - this needs to be shared as well...
In respect with JDBC, I could also see logic being shared by the client and
Derby engine (logical) tiers at the higher levels, especially in the area of
ResultSetMetadata as well as DatabaseMetaData.
--francois
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Weird Freudian slip. I meant "up to a vote" not "up to avoid." Sorry...
David W. Van Couvering wrote:
> OK, I am proposing that addition of any new packages to a shared
> component be up to avoid. Addition of new classes or methods to an
> existing shared package should not require a vote.
>
> Does that sound reasonable?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>
>> Hello.
>> Kathey Marsden wrote :
>>
>>> I think the code submission for any new shared
>>> component should require a vote.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think there remains need to think about definition of "new shared
>> component" in this context .
>> Is it new *.java file to be shared ? Or new package to be shared ?
>>
>> I think we should wait for the shared component guidelines page to be
>> updated by David , then discuss the definition.
>>
>> Best regards .
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
OK, I am proposing that addition of any new packages to a shared
component be up to avoid. Addition of new classes or methods to an
existing shared package should not require a vote.
Does that sound reasonable?
Thanks,
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
> Kathey Marsden wrote :
>
>> I think the code submission for any new shared
>> component should require a vote.
>
>
> I think there remains need to think about definition of "new shared
> component" in this context .
> Is it new *.java file to be shared ? Or new package to be shared ?
>
> I think we should wait for the shared component guidelines page to be
> updated by David , then discuss the definition.
>
> Best regards .
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
OK, I'll clarify this on the Wiki page.
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
> Kathey Marsden wrote :
>
>> I think the code submission for any new shared
>> component should require a vote.
>
>
> I think there remains need to think about definition of "new shared
> component" in this context .
> Is it new *.java file to be shared ? Or new package to be shared ?
>
> I think we should wait for the shared component guidelines page to be
> updated by David , then discuss the definition.
>
> Best regards .
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
Kathey Marsden wrote :
> I think the code submission for any new shared
> component should require a vote.
I think there remains need to think about definition of "new shared component" in this context .
Is it new *.java file to be shared ? Or new package to be shared ?
I think we should wait for the shared component guidelines page to be updated by David ,
then discuss the definition.
Best regards .
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by Kathey Marsden <km...@sbcglobal.net>.
David W. Van Couvering wrote:
> Hi, Kathey. I have seen in the code and from various emails the
> concern of "client bloat." I don't have the background so I'm sure
> I'm missing something.
>
> I can understand wanting to keep the code base small for J2ME, but my
> understanding is that doesn't involve client/server. What's the need
> to keep the client small since it won't be found in J2ME environments?
Hopefully it will be found in J2ME environments someday, as soon as
someone does the work to make it so. I think it especially important
for client. Wouldn't it make sense to have a lot of clients on small
devices? Small footprint is also part of our charter
http://db.apache.org/derby/#Derby+Project+Charter so is important. On
this whole topic my three concerns are as they have been from the start.
- We need to allow mixing of client and server versions, both on a
protocol level and in the same classpath.
- We should keep jar file growth commensurate with functionality
improvement.
- We should try to avoid asking every user in the world to change their
classpath.
Kathey
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Hi, Kathey. I have seen in the code and from various emails the concern
of "client bloat." I don't have the background so I'm sure I'm missing
something.
I can understand wanting to keep the code base small for J2ME, but my
understanding is that doesn't involve client/server. What's the need to
keep the client small since it won't be found in J2ME environments?
Thanks,
David
Kathey Marsden wrote:
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>
>
>>Then, I propose next :
>> It is subject of voting to create new shared component . New
>>shared component require passing the vote .
>
>
>
> +1
>
> I too am concerned with the impact of creating shared components
> especially with regard to potential client bloat and backward
> compatibility risks. I think the code submission for any new shared
> component should require a vote. I also think that it would be good to
> componentize things in place in client or server before making them a
> shared component. For example, for DRDA there is a fair amount of work
> to do to extract the sharable parts of DRDA processing from either
> server or client. First the code work for untangling the component
> could be done in place for either server or client and then once
> complete, moved to shared component status.
>
>
> Kathey
>
Re: Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about
what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by Kathey Marsden <km...@sbcglobal.net>.
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Then, I propose next :
> It is subject of voting to create new shared component . New
> shared component require passing the vote .
+1
I too am concerned with the impact of creating shared components
especially with regard to potential client bloat and backward
compatibility risks. I think the code submission for any new shared
component should require a vote. I also think that it would be good to
componentize things in place in client or server before making them a
shared component. For example, for DRDA there is a fair amount of work
to do to extract the sharable parts of DRDA processing from either
server or client. First the code work for untangling the component
could be done in place for either server or client and then once
complete, moved to shared component status.
Kathey
Proposal about creating shared component (Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... ))
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
I have suspect on next two items.
* '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code <snip> message semantics, datatypes, etc.
Because of synmetry between server and client, some part of networking protocol component would be similar implementation
between server and client .
However, I think it can be somekind of trap because there would exists difference of processing between server and client .
* '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that is common across client and server
I'm not sure required security is same between server and client.
Well, all they are just suspect , and not anymore than suspect now .
I can't assert that they are evil, unless they are explained more concretely.
// To say the trugh, I feel some kind of beauty in sharing code in DRDA because of synmetry between server and client , even !
Writing this mail, I noticed that what my concern is the impact and danger of shared component .
I think shared code can become trap very easily,
because shared component can share , not only something which should be shared , but also something which should not be shared ,
between programs.
I feel danger about such a bunch of code being created with silence.
Then, I propose next :
It is subject of voting to create new shared component . New shared component require passing the vote .
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
> If I understand correctly, your concerns Tomohito is that you don't know
> whether the versioning guidelines apply until you know better what it is
> we are trying to share. I added my comments to the Wiki page on this,
> and am including it in this email for ongoing discussion:
>
> ====
>
> Let me try to give a sense of what the actual '''components''' would be,
> not just the kinds of things that could be shared. Again, these are all
> possibilities, not realities, and
>
> * '''Common services''' -- these are basic level services that can
> be used across multiple subsystems. This includes things like
> internationalization, common error messages and SQL states,
> !SanityManager, logging/tracing, version info, and other miscellaneous
> shareable services. It is more than possible that functionality which
> starts in this component could end up evolving to be its own separate
> component, but that does not need to be determined ahead of time.
> * '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code that is used to
> implement the DRDA protocol. Having this in a shared location helps to
> ensure that the client and server code are in sync in terms of message
> types, message semantics, datatypes, etc.
> * '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that
> is common across client and server
> * '''Common JDBC functionality''' -- this is highly debatable, but
> it could be there is code between the client and embedded drivers that
> is shareable. Again, just a thought, not a commitment.
>
> In terms of how each of these components manages their sharing, I really
> do think this is something that can be defined later. What we want to
> establish are the ground rules for how a shared component is versioned,
> distributed, and what compatibility rules we need to follow. At this
> point we are making no claims to the underlying architecture and
> structure of specific shared components, and I do not feel this needs to
> be identified at this time. For example, we may decide we want a
> common way to load an implementation of an interface at runtime; that is
> a separate discussion and does not need to be defined prior to getting
> in the basic infrastructure as defined in
> SharedComponentVersioningGuidelines.
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I post my questions around shared module.
>>
>> What is the modules to be shread ?
>>
>> David shows me the list of modules to be shared in next url.
>> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ListOfSharedComponent
>>
>> However, David justs lists them (At least I recognized as so) and,
>> I think we need to think about this list in order to make it clear what
>> is the module to be shared .
>>
>> At first, I think we should think next :
>> * Definition of each element in the lists.
>>
>> And I think what we need to be careful about is as next :
>> * Is granularity of this list reasonable as shared module ?
>> * Are there any other elements which should be included in this lists ?
>> * Is it possible to share the element as the shared module ?
>>
>> Best regards .
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>> PSM - a possible approach
>>
>>
>>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns
>>> in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>>
>>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>>> be a bit stuck :)
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards.
>>>>
>>>> /*
>>>>
>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Naka
>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>
>>>> */
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>>> summarize
>>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>>> 2005/10/06
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on
Wik ... )
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
If I understand correctly, your concerns Tomohito is that you don't know
whether the versioning guidelines apply until you know better what it is
we are trying to share. I added my comments to the Wiki page on this,
and am including it in this email for ongoing discussion:
====
Let me try to give a sense of what the actual '''components''' would be,
not just the kinds of things that could be shared. Again, these are all
possibilities, not realities, and
* '''Common services''' -- these are basic level services that can
be used across multiple subsystems. This includes things like
internationalization, common error messages and SQL states,
!SanityManager, logging/tracing, version info, and other miscellaneous
shareable services. It is more than possible that functionality which
starts in this component could end up evolving to be its own separate
component, but that does not need to be determined ahead of time.
* '''DRDA networking''' -- providing shared code that is used to
implement the DRDA protocol. Having this in a shared location helps to
ensure that the client and server code are in sync in terms of message
types, message semantics, datatypes, etc.
* '''Security''' -- provides pluggable security infrastructure that
is common across client and server
* '''Common JDBC functionality''' -- this is highly debatable, but
it could be there is code between the client and embedded drivers that
is shareable. Again, just a thought, not a commitment.
In terms of how each of these components manages their sharing, I really
do think this is something that can be defined later. What we want to
establish are the ground rules for how a shared component is versioned,
distributed, and what compatibility rules we need to follow. At this
point we are making no claims to the underlying architecture and
structure of specific shared components, and I do not feel this needs to
be identified at this time. For example, we may decide we want a
common way to load an implementation of an interface at runtime; that is
a separate discussion and does not need to be defined prior to getting
in the basic infrastructure as defined in
SharedComponentVersioningGuidelines.
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I post my questions around shared module.
>
> What is the modules to be shread ?
>
> David shows me the list of modules to be shared in next url.
> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ListOfSharedComponent
>
> However, David justs lists them (At least I recognized as so) and,
> I think we need to think about this list in order to make it clear what
> is the module to be shared .
>
> At first, I think we should think next :
> * Definition of each element in the lists.
>
> And I think what we need to be careful about is as next :
> * Is granularity of this list reasonable as shared module ?
> * Are there any other elements which should be included in this lists ?
> * Is it possible to share the element as the shared module ?
>
> Best regards .
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
> <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
> PSM - a possible approach
>
>
>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns
>> in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>
>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>> be a bit stuck :)
>>
>> David
>>
>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>
>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>
>>> Naka
>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>
>>> */
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>> on the
>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>> summarize
>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>> 2005/10/06
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>
>
>
Questions about what is module to be shared (Re: Discussions on Wik ... )
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
I post my questions around shared module.
What is the modules to be shread ?
David shows me the list of modules to be shared in next url.
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ListOfSharedComponent
However, David justs lists them (At least I recognized as so) and,
I think we need to think about this list in order to make it clear what is the module to be shared .
At first, I think we should think next :
* Definition of each element in the lists.
And I think what we need to be careful about is as next :
* Is granularity of this list reasonable as shared module ?
* Are there any other elements which should be included in this lists ?
* Is it possible to share the element as the shared module ?
Best regards .
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns in
> email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>
> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
> be a bit stuck :)
>
> David
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>
>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>> PSM - a possible approach
>>
>>
>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
>>> the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>
>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>
>>>> Dan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
>>
>>
>>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
>Hm, I'm not sure what article you're referring to
I mean article as your writing in DERBY-254
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
I came to confused.
I thought you know what is client exception and what is embedded exception and ,
did not have implement to distinguish them in the program yet and ,
tried to make the implementation to distinguish them in DERBY-254 .
//Or do I musunderstood something at all ....?
//Is it not what you wanted to do ,to distingish client exception from embedded exception ?
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
> Hm, I'm not sure what article you're referring to, but I think there are
> two important ways we want to make a distinction. First of all, when
> running in client/server mode, there are a class of exceptions that the
> network client gets from the server and a class of exceptions that it
> throws by itself. How these are handled and thrown in the network
> client are slightly different. But so far that discussion doesn't seem
> to have come up much.
>
> Then, from the viewpoint of code sharing, there are two JDBC drivers,
> embedded and network client. Each of them have their own exceptions
> they throw. *some* of these exceptions (actually, a large class of them)
> are exactly the same error (e.g. "invalid max value passed as a
> paramter" and "this routine is not implemented." ) The exceptions that
> are common between client driver and embedded driver should have the
> same SQL State and severity. I also plan on sharing the messages so
> that the translations can also be shared, saving us some significant
> duplication of effort.
>
> I have a feeling I'm still missing it, but we're getting there.
>
> Are you still on for 4:30 today for a Skype chat?
>
> David
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>>> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>>>
>>> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>>>
>>> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name,
>>> product name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're
>>> looking for?
>>>
>>> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>>>
>>> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
>>> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
>>> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
>>> they should be the same.
>>
>>
>> No no.
>> I ask you what "you" want to distinguish in this issue.
>>
>> There seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and "error of network"
>> in your article.
>> However, it is ambigous what is the difference between them.
>>
>> At least , I couldn't read what they exactly are.
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
>>
>>
>>> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>>>
>>> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>>>
>>> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name,
>>> product name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're
>>> looking for?
>>>
>>> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>>>
>>> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
>>> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
>>> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
>>> they should be the same.
>>>
>>> And we have also agreed that using the error code or the implementing
>>> class of SQLException is not valid because neither of these are public
>>> (and therefore stable) interfaces.
>>>
>>> In the network client, when you construct a SQLException, the full
>>> diagnostics of the exception are written to the configured log:
>>>
>>> if (logWriter != null) {
>>> logWriter.traceDiagnosable(this);
>>>
>>> if the exception is from the server, then the trace diagnostics
>>> contain information that makes it clear the exception is from the server:
>>>
>>> if ( sqlca != null )
>>> printWriter.println(header + " DERBY SQLCA from server");
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlCode = " +
>>> sqlca.getSqlCode());
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrd = " +
>>> Utils.getStringFromInts(sqlca.getSqlErrd()));
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmc = " +
>>> sqlca.getSqlErrmc());
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmcTokens = " +
>>> Utils.getStringFromStrings(sqlca.getSqlErrmcTokens()));
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrp = " +
>>> sqlca.getSqlErrp());
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlState = " +
>>> sqlca.getSqlState());
>>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlWarn = " + new
>>> String(sqlca.getSqlWarn()));
>>>
>>> It seems to me this should give the user the information they need,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> This is question around next .
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/JDBC_error_messages_and_SQL_States
>>>>
>>>> And it seems have something a lot to do with DERBY-254 .
>>>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
>>>>
>>>> As in DERBY-254, there seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and
>>>> "error of network" .
>>>> However, it is not clear what does distinguish one from another .
>>>> * Whether user uses network or embedded driver distinguishes ? *
>>>> Whether exception happens in network or embedded implementation
>>>> distinguishes ?
>>>> Best regards .
>>>>
>>>> /*
>>>>
>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Naka
>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>
>>>> */
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your
>>>>> concerns in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an
>>>>> IRC conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do
>>>>> seem to be a bit stuck :)
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>>>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Naka
>>>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> */
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions,
>>>>>> procedures and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the
>>>>>>>> wiki for
>>>>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>>>>> summarize
>>>>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 2005/10/06
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date:
>>>> 2005/10/07
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Hm, I'm not sure what article you're referring to, but I think there are
two important ways we want to make a distinction. First of all, when
running in client/server mode, there are a class of exceptions that the
network client gets from the server and a class of exceptions that it
throws by itself. How these are handled and thrown in the network
client are slightly different. But so far that discussion doesn't seem
to have come up much.
Then, from the viewpoint of code sharing, there are two JDBC drivers,
embedded and network client. Each of them have their own exceptions
they throw. *some* of these exceptions (actually, a large class of them)
are exactly the same error (e.g. "invalid max value passed as a
paramter" and "this routine is not implemented." ) The exceptions that
are common between client driver and embedded driver should have the
same SQL State and severity. I also plan on sharing the messages so
that the translations can also be shared, saving us some significant
duplication of effort.
I have a feeling I'm still missing it, but we're getting there.
Are you still on for 4:30 today for a Skype chat?
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
>
>> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>>
>> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>>
>> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name,
>> product name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're
>> looking for?
>>
>> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>>
>> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
>> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
>> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
>> they should be the same.
>
>
> No no.
> I ask you what "you" want to distinguish in this issue.
>
> There seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and "error of network"
> in your article.
> However, it is ambigous what is the difference between them.
>
> At least , I couldn't read what they exactly are.
>
> Best regards.
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
> <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:52 AM
> Subject: Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
>
>
>> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>>
>> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>>
>> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name,
>> product name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're
>> looking for?
>>
>> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>>
>> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
>> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
>> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
>> they should be the same.
>>
>> And we have also agreed that using the error code or the implementing
>> class of SQLException is not valid because neither of these are public
>> (and therefore stable) interfaces.
>>
>> In the network client, when you construct a SQLException, the full
>> diagnostics of the exception are written to the configured log:
>>
>> if (logWriter != null) {
>> logWriter.traceDiagnosable(this);
>>
>> if the exception is from the server, then the trace diagnostics
>> contain information that makes it clear the exception is from the server:
>>
>> if ( sqlca != null )
>> printWriter.println(header + " DERBY SQLCA from server");
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlCode = " +
>> sqlca.getSqlCode());
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrd = " +
>> Utils.getStringFromInts(sqlca.getSqlErrd()));
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmc = " +
>> sqlca.getSqlErrmc());
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmcTokens = " +
>> Utils.getStringFromStrings(sqlca.getSqlErrmcTokens()));
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrp = " +
>> sqlca.getSqlErrp());
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlState = " +
>> sqlca.getSqlState());
>> printWriter.println(header + " SqlWarn = " + new
>> String(sqlca.getSqlWarn()));
>>
>> It seems to me this should give the user the information they need,
>> right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> David
>>
>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> This is question around next .
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/JDBC_error_messages_and_SQL_States
>>>
>>> And it seems have something a lot to do with DERBY-254 .
>>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
>>>
>>> As in DERBY-254, there seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and
>>> "error of network" .
>>> However, it is not clear what does distinguish one from another .
>>> * Whether user uses network or embedded driver distinguishes ? *
>>> Whether exception happens in network or embedded implementation
>>> distinguishes ?
>>> Best regards .
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>
>>> Naka
>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>
>>> */
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your
>>>> concerns in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>>>
>>>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an
>>>> IRC conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do
>>>> seem to be a bit stuck :)
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> /*
>>>>>
>>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Naka
>>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>>
>>>>> */
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions,
>>>>> procedures and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the
>>>>>>> wiki for
>>>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>>>> summarize
>>>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>>>> 2005/10/06
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date:
>>> 2005/10/07
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>
> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>
> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name, product
> name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're looking for?
>
> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>
> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
> they should be the same.
No no.
I ask you what "you" want to distinguish in this issue.
There seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and "error of network" in your article.
However, it is ambigous what is the difference between them.
At least , I couldn't read what they exactly are.
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:52 AM
Subject: Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
> If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
>
> (a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
>
> The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name, product
> name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're looking for?
>
> (b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
>
> I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
> think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
> drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
> they should be the same.
>
> And we have also agreed that using the error code or the implementing
> class of SQLException is not valid because neither of these are public
> (and therefore stable) interfaces.
>
> In the network client, when you construct a SQLException, the full
> diagnostics of the exception are written to the configured log:
>
> if (logWriter != null) {
> logWriter.traceDiagnosable(this);
>
> if the exception is from the server, then the trace diagnostics contain
> information that makes it clear the exception is from the server:
>
> if ( sqlca != null )
> printWriter.println(header + " DERBY SQLCA from server");
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlCode = " +
> sqlca.getSqlCode());
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrd = " +
> Utils.getStringFromInts(sqlca.getSqlErrd()));
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmc = " +
> sqlca.getSqlErrmc());
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmcTokens = " +
> Utils.getStringFromStrings(sqlca.getSqlErrmcTokens()));
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrp = " +
> sqlca.getSqlErrp());
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlState = " +
> sqlca.getSqlState());
> printWriter.println(header + " SqlWarn = " + new
> String(sqlca.getSqlWarn()));
>
> It seems to me this should give the user the information they need, right?
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> This is question around next .
>> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/JDBC_error_messages_and_SQL_States
>>
>> And it seems have something a lot to do with DERBY-254 .
>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
>>
>> As in DERBY-254, there seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and
>> "error of network" .
>> However, it is not clear what does distinguish one from another .
>> * Whether user uses network or embedded driver distinguishes ? * Whether
>> exception happens in network or embedded implementation distinguishes ?
>> Best regards .
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>> PSM - a possible approach
>>
>>
>>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns
>>> in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>>
>>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>>> be a bit stuck :)
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>>
>>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>>
>>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards.
>>>>
>>>> /*
>>>>
>>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>>
>>>> Naka
>>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>>
>>>> */
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>>> summarize
>>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>>> 2005/10/06
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
If I understand you correctly, you are asking how the user
(a) can tell if they're using the network driver or embedded driver and
The DatabaseMetadata of a connection gives you the driver name, product
name, version, etc. Would this give the information you're looking for?
(b) can tell if the exception came from the client or the server
I don't think it's reasonable to want the SQLState to be different; I
think that many users very much want them to be the *same* across the
drivers, for the same error. Kathey and Dan have made it pretty clear
they should be the same.
And we have also agreed that using the error code or the implementing
class of SQLException is not valid because neither of these are public
(and therefore stable) interfaces.
In the network client, when you construct a SQLException, the full
diagnostics of the exception are written to the configured log:
if (logWriter != null) {
logWriter.traceDiagnosable(this);
if the exception is from the server, then the trace diagnostics contain
information that makes it clear the exception is from the server:
if ( sqlca != null )
printWriter.println(header + " DERBY SQLCA from server");
printWriter.println(header + " SqlCode = " +
sqlca.getSqlCode());
printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrd = " +
Utils.getStringFromInts(sqlca.getSqlErrd()));
printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmc = " +
sqlca.getSqlErrmc());
printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrmcTokens = " +
Utils.getStringFromStrings(sqlca.getSqlErrmcTokens()));
printWriter.println(header + " SqlErrp = " +
sqlca.getSqlErrp());
printWriter.println(header + " SqlState = " +
sqlca.getSqlState());
printWriter.println(header + " SqlWarn = " + new
String(sqlca.getSqlWarn()));
It seems to me this should give the user the information they need, right?
Thanks,
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
>
> This is question around next .
> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/JDBC_error_messages_and_SQL_States
>
> And it seems have something a lot to do with DERBY-254 .
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
>
> As in DERBY-254, there seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and
> "error of network" .
> However, it is not clear what does distinguish one from another .
> * Whether user uses network or embedded driver distinguishes ? * Whether
> exception happens in network or embedded implementation distinguishes ?
> Best regards .
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
> <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
> PSM - a possible approach
>
>
>> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns
>> in email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>>
>> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
>> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
>> be a bit stuck :)
>>
>> David
>>
>> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>>
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>>
>>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Tomohito Nakayama
>>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>>> tmnk@apache.org
>>>
>>> Naka
>>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>>
>>> */
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures
>>> and PSM - a possible approach
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there
>>>> in the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up
>>>>>> on the
>>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur
>>>>> on the
>>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to
>>>>> summarize
>>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date:
>>> 2005/10/06
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/124 - Release Date: 2005/10/07
>
>
>
Question about error messages (Re: Discussions on Wiki ...)
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
This is question around next .
http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/JDBC_error_messages_and_SQL_States
And it seems have something a lot to do with DERBY-254 .
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-254
As in DERBY-254, there seems to be concept of "error of embedded" and "error of network" .
However, it is not clear what does distinguish one from another .
* Whether user uses network or embedded driver distinguishes ?
* Whether exception happens in network or embedded implementation distinguishes ?
Best regards .
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
> Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns in
> email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
>
> If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
> conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
> be a bit stuck :)
>
> David
>
> TomohitoNakayama wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
>> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>>
>> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>>
>> Best regards.
>>
>> /*
>>
>> Tomohito Nakayama
>> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
>> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
>> tmnk@apache.org
>>
>> Naka
>> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>>
>> */
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
>> <Da...@Sun.COM>
>> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
>> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
>> PSM - a possible approach
>>
>>
>>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
>>> the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>>
>>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
>>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
>>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>>
>>>> Dan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions,
procedures and PSM - a possible approach
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
Hi, Tomohito. It would be great if you could summarize your concerns in
email and we can continue our discussion on the list.
If it would help, I'm also more than open for you and I to have an IRC
conversation, log it, and send the log out to the list. We do seem to
be a bit stuck :)
David
TomohitoNakayama wrote:
> Hello.
>
> I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
> I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
>
> Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
>
> Best regards.
>
> /*
>
> Tomohito Nakayama
> tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
> tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
> tmnk@apache.org
>
> Naka
> http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
>
> */
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David W. Van Couvering"
> <Da...@Sun.COM>
> To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and
> PSM - a possible approach
>
>
>> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
>> the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with
>> Tomohito that we move it back to the list.
>>
>> David
>>
>> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>>
>>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>>> Wiki site as a proposal?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
>>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
>>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>>
>>> Dan.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
>
>
>
Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
Posted by TomohitoNakayama <to...@basil.ocn.ne.jp>.
Hello.
I understand. Sorry for disturbing .
I had come to feel difficulties in discussing at Wiki.
Should I ask David my question in mailing list once more ?
Best regards.
/*
Tomohito Nakayama
tomonaka@basil.ocn.ne.jp
tomohito@rose.zero.ad.jp
tmnk@apache.org
Naka
http://www5.ocn.ne.jp/~tomohito/TopPage.html
*/
----- Original Message -----
From: "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>
To: "Derby Development" <de...@db.apache.org>
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
> I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
> the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with Tomohito
> that we move it back to the list.
>
> David
>
> Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
>> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>>
>>
>>>This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>>Wiki site as a proposal?
>>
>>
>> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
>> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
>> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
>> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
>> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
>> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>>
>> Dan.
>>
>>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.11.13/123 - Release Date: 2005/10/06
Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions,
procedures and PSM - a possible approach
Posted by "David W. Van Couvering" <Da...@Sun.COM>.
I'm getting a little concerned, it feels a little quiet over there in
the corner with Tomohito and I, and I was about to propose with Tomohito
that we move it back to the list.
David
Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
> David W. Van Couvering wrote:
>
>
>>This sounds great, Dan! Is this a good candidate for putting up on the
>>Wiki site as a proposal?
>
>
> Is anyone else concerned by the movement of discussion to the wiki for
> the common code stuff? The Apache way is for discussions to occur on the
> mailing lists. It seems to me that the wiki is a great way to summarize
> such discussions, but not to hold them. A wiki page related to a
> discussion can provide a very useful single overview, something that
> does get lost in mailings as the discussion spreads out.
>
> Dan.
>
>
Re: Discussions on Wiki - WAS Re: SQL functions, procedures and PSM - a possible approach
Posted by Francois Orsini <fr...@gmail.com>.
Yes indeed Dan - I missed a few discussions on the Wiki page - am sure there
is a way (hopefully) but I'd love to get notified when a page is updated
with new comments posted - I think it's used to work that way at some point.
Having 2 different sources of information can be of an issue unless there
are pointers to track the information from one source to another (i.e. new
wiki comments posted notification)...I'm hoping notifications can be enabled
based on user preference.
--francois