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Posted to user@struts.apache.org by Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com> on 2007/01/10 17:24:22 UTC
Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Well okay, the Apache live in a desert, but that didn't sound as good for a
subject line.
I'm trying to figure out which Apache products to use to easily build a
database application where the users would access the system via a web
browser. From several hours of reading descriptions of various Apache
products, it seems like Struts might be the way to go, but I'm not sure.
My background is as a RAD database developer (Remedy & xBase, specifically)
who's read a couple of Java books. I also have some network engineering
skills.
I'm looking for some kind of RAD suite/framework that will produce a highly
interactive client-side interface for the users. If possible, I'd like the
application to be DBE independent. My long-range goal is to deliver to
customers turnkey servers that are 100% open source.
I know this is pretty vague, but can anyone point me in the right direction?
TIA,
--Phil
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Yet another native guide:
* Java CRUD frameworks - http://kproject.gr/blog/?p=7
-Ted.
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
Just to follow up on the Grails suggestion.
* http://www.infoq.com/minibooks/grails
-T.
On 1/10/07, Jason King <jh...@airmail.net> wrote:
> grails, http://grails.codehaus.org might be a better choice as it links
> into several standard java projects (specifically spring and hibernate)
> w/o you having to learn them up front.
> Groovy might be a better conceptual fit if you're coming from a 4gl
> background as well.
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Jason King <jh...@airmail.net>.
grails, http://grails.codehaus.org might be a better choice as it links
into several standard java projects (specifically spring and hibernate)
w/o you having to learn them up front.
Groovy might be a better conceptual fit if you're coming from a 4gl
background as well.
Ted Husted wrote:
> You might want to give Ruby on Rails a look see. It isn't Java, or an
> ASF project, but it is open source, and a lot of Java developers have
> defected to RoR over the last couple of years.
>
> * http://www.rubyonrails.org/
>
> And do invest an afternoon in setting up Subversion, even if you are
> working alone. Your future self will thank you :)
>
> -- HTH, Ted.
> * http://www.husted.com/struts/
>
>
> On 1/10/07, Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Well okay, the Apache live in a desert, but that didn't sound as good
>> for a
>> subject line.
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out which Apache products to use to easily build a
>> database application where the users would access the system via a web
>> browser. From several hours of reading descriptions of various Apache
>> products, it seems like Struts might be the way to go, but I'm not sure.
>>
>> My background is as a RAD database developer (Remedy & xBase,
>> specifically)
>> who's read a couple of Java books. I also have some network engineering
>> skills.
>>
>> I'm looking for some kind of RAD suite/framework that will produce a
>> highly
>> interactive client-side interface for the users. If possible, I'd
>> like the
>> application to be DBE independent. My long-range goal is to deliver to
>> customers turnkey servers that are 100% open source.
>>
>> I know this is pretty vague, but can anyone point me in the right
>> direction?
>>
>> TIA,
>> --Phil
>
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
You might want to give Ruby on Rails a look see. It isn't Java, or an
ASF project, but it is open source, and a lot of Java developers have
defected to RoR over the last couple of years.
* http://www.rubyonrails.org/
And do invest an afternoon in setting up Subversion, even if you are
working alone. Your future self will thank you :)
-- HTH, Ted.
* http://www.husted.com/struts/
On 1/10/07, Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Well okay, the Apache live in a desert, but that didn't sound as good for a
> subject line.
>
> I'm trying to figure out which Apache products to use to easily build a
> database application where the users would access the system via a web
> browser. From several hours of reading descriptions of various Apache
> products, it seems like Struts might be the way to go, but I'm not sure.
>
> My background is as a RAD database developer (Remedy & xBase, specifically)
> who's read a couple of Java books. I also have some network engineering
> skills.
>
> I'm looking for some kind of RAD suite/framework that will produce a highly
> interactive client-side interface for the users. If possible, I'd like the
> application to be DBE independent. My long-range goal is to deliver to
> customers turnkey servers that are 100% open source.
>
> I know this is pretty vague, but can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> TIA,
> --Phil
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com>.
Leon:
Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
>
> That being said, why don't you want to write some code by hands? :-)
To tell the truth, that's why I'm looking into java based web solutions. I
used to do quite a lot of hand coding, and my skills have eroded some since
using the 4GL stuff recently. Needless to say, it is not a good thing for
my career to lose my coding skill -- the job market for java web developers
is much bigger than for 4GL developers.
--Phil
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@googlemail.com>.
Hello Phil,
Personally I don't believe in perfect generated code (despite I have
written my own web-app generator, which generates complete web-app
architecture out of few xml files, but thats a different story since I
know what it generates :-) ), but if you want to take this approach
you may look around in the uml-tool market.
To drop in a view names: argoUML, poseidon and, of course, rational
rose. argoUML is free, the other both have community editions, and imo
are all capable of generating at least ejbs, reverse engineering,
relational data models, and all of that.
That being said, why don't you want to write some code by hands? :-)
regards
Leon
On 1/10/07, Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Leon:
>
> Yeah, Rapid Applicatoin Development. Most of the database development I've
> been doing for the last few years has been 4GL type stuff where I design the
> UI and the toolset reverse engineers the underlying data model (with a lot
> of hints from the developer, of course). Then all I had to do was tell the
> server how the objects relate to each other and what the business rules are.
> It's a very powerful system, but it costs ~$50K US to really get a turnkey
> system deployed, and lots of my customer base just doesn't have that kind of
> cash to throw around. Plus, if they're going to spend that kind of money,
> I'd rather they give it to me for services rather than to BMC for product.
> :)
>
> Thanks,
> --Phil
>
>
> Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
> >
> > are you talking about RAD a in
> > Rapid application development (RAD) ?
> >
> > If yes, than it doesn't depend on the framework you use. It's the
> > definition of development process, not on which framework you intend
> > to run.
> >
> > regards
> > Leon
>
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com>.
Leon:
Yeah, Rapid Applicatoin Development. Most of the database development I've
been doing for the last few years has been 4GL type stuff where I design the
UI and the toolset reverse engineers the underlying data model (with a lot
of hints from the developer, of course). Then all I had to do was tell the
server how the objects relate to each other and what the business rules are.
It's a very powerful system, but it costs ~$50K US to really get a turnkey
system deployed, and lots of my customer base just doesn't have that kind of
cash to throw around. Plus, if they're going to spend that kind of money,
I'd rather they give it to me for services rather than to BMC for product.
:)
Thanks,
--Phil
Leon Rosenberg-3 wrote:
>
> are you talking about RAD a in
> Rapid application development (RAD) ?
>
> If yes, than it doesn't depend on the framework you use. It's the
> definition of development process, not on which framework you intend
> to run.
>
> regards
> Leon
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Dale Newfield <Da...@Newfield.org>.
Phil_M wrote:
> Since I'll be the only author until at least an alpha release is
> ready, I can defer CVS for the moment -- as you said, we need to
> avoid overrunning our brain's buffers.
I would caution against this. The added difficulty of setting up a cvs
or svn repository is minimal (add an hour at most up front). Even with
one developer, the benefit of being able to test out changes and if
necessary revert back to prior versions is huge.
It also provides a nice backup mechanism in case of hardware failures if
you keep the repository on a different hard drive than the code in
development. It can also be helpful for one developer if he or she is
developing on more than one machine.
-Dale
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RE: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com>.
Bruno:
Thanks for your excellent reply -- if I understand right, you're suggesting
a java servlets based architecture (tomcat & underlying) for the application
to provide the interactive user client, struts for the framework, and
hibernate for DBE independence. Since I'll be the only author until at
least an alpha release is ready, I can defer CVS for the moment -- as you
said, we need to avoid overrunning our brain's buffers.
Would you recommend avoiding portal architectures for the first version?
Many of the potential customers are government agencies, and they're big
into the portal models -- helps them avoid having to coordinate the work of
many different contractors.
Thanks Again,
--Phil
Bruno Melloni-2 wrote:
>
> You'll have to pick different tools for different needs, then put them
> together. Here are some ideas based on open source:
>
> - JDK 1.5
> - An IDE. Netbeans and Eclipse are good. Eclipse usually requires
> picking and installing plug-ins, but nowadays there are distributions
> you can get, or you can use MyEclipse (which does much of the stuff for
> you). If you want something easier and don't mind spending money, check
> out Exadel studio.
> - A J2EE server. Start with Tomcat, then later you can graduate to
> jBoss.
> - Struts 2.0.x (not yet General Availability, but it will likely be by
> the time you are done - and you wouldn't want to refactor)
> - Hibernate for database access. And any database you like - hibernate
> supports most of them. MySQL if you want open source.
> - If you are not yet using version control, use CVS to keep your source
> code. All IDEs support it or have plug-ins for it.
>
> - Don't bother with using EJBs at this time. Encapsulate your code into
> well thought-out packages instead.
> - Spring is nice, but wait until you have more practice with Java... The
> brain can accept only so much new stuff at one time.
> - Similarly, don't bother with much Javascript yet. Do that in your
> second version.
>
> That should be a good start. It is probably overwhelming, but it is all
> pretty much needed.
>
> Bruno
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Leon Rosenberg <ro...@googlemail.com>.
are you talking about RAD a in
Rapid application development (RAD) ?
If yes, than it doesn't depend on the framework you use. It's the
definition of development process, not on which framework you intend
to run.
regards
Leon
On 1/10/07, Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Nicolas:
>
> This is a completely new application, so no reverse engineering is needed.
>
> Does Apache have a RAD product/project for developing web applications?
>
> Thanks Again,
> --Phil
>
>
> Struts si not a RAD framework.
>
> From an existing database, you may look at Hibernate that can generate
> a persistent Model be reverse engeneering.
> Lot's of other frameworks use this feature of hibernate to generate
> quickly a CRUD application (appfuse, Seam, ...).
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Newbie-Lost-in-the-Apache-Jungle-tf2953416.html#a8261248
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>
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com>.
Nicolas:
This is a completely new application, so no reverse engineering is needed.
Does Apache have a RAD product/project for developing web applications?
Thanks Again,
--Phil
Struts si not a RAD framework.
>From an existing database, you may look at Hibernate that can generate
a persistent Model be reverse engeneering.
Lot's of other frameworks use this feature of hibernate to generate
quickly a CRUD application (appfuse, Seam, ...).
--
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Re: Newbie Lost in the Apache Jungle
Posted by nicolas de loof <ni...@gmail.com>.
Struts si not a RAD framework.
>From an existing database, you may look at Hibernate that can generate
a persistent Model be reverse engeneering.
Lot's of other frameworks use this feature of hibernate to generate
quickly a CRUD application (appfuse, Seam, ...).
2007/1/10, Phil_M <pj...@yahoo.com>:
>
> Well okay, the Apache live in a desert, but that didn't sound as good for a
> subject line.
>
> I'm trying to figure out which Apache products to use to easily build a
> database application where the users would access the system via a web
> browser. From several hours of reading descriptions of various Apache
> products, it seems like Struts might be the way to go, but I'm not sure.
>
> My background is as a RAD database developer (Remedy & xBase, specifically)
> who's read a couple of Java books. I also have some network engineering
> skills.
>
> I'm looking for some kind of RAD suite/framework that will produce a highly
> interactive client-side interface for the users. If possible, I'd like the
> application to be DBE independent. My long-range goal is to deliver to
> customers turnkey servers that are 100% open source.
>
> I know this is pretty vague, but can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> TIA,
> --Phil
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Newbie-Lost-in-the-Apache-Jungle-tf2953416.html#a8260640
> Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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