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Posted to dev@netbeans.apache.org by Emilian Bold <em...@apache.org> on 2017/04/10 11:22:06 UTC
Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Hello,
I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our users
if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki and
use another main website.
It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
much of the site / links as possible.
OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
should follow the same path!
The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
drastic changes.
The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
--emi
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
I agree, we should keep as much the same as possible.
Though, the question is only one of what is possible and desirable from an
Apache Way perspective.
Gj
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Emilian Bold <em...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our users
> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki and
> use another main website.
>
> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> much of the site / links as possible.
>
> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
> should follow the same path!
>
> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
> drastic changes.
>
> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>
> --emi
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10-04-2017 13:36, Randall Wood wrote:
> Is a developer who uses the NetBeans platform in a third party application a user or developer?
Simply put, a developer is someone who develops (programs, writes
documentation, evangelizes etc) netbeans itself, and a user is someone
who uses netbeans to do...stuff. Developers need to know about the dev
list, the source code, version control systems, the community/PMC and so
on - the user needs to know about binaries and other download options as
well as user lists, forums and so on.
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> Randall Wood
>
>
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 07:30, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good news.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
>>> users
>>>> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
>>> and
>>>> use another main website.
>>>>
>>>> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
>>>> much of the site / links as possible.
>>>>
>>>> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
>>>> should follow the same path!
>>>>
>>>> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
>>>> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
>>>> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
>>>> drastic changes.
>>>
>>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>>
>>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>>
>>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>> Daniel.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
>>>> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>>>>
>>>> --emi
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi
Developer means, all who do something for the NetBeans Project itself.
The developer page is for the NetBeans Community. Infos like source
checkout, mailing lists, and other channels used, bugtracker etc. All the
rest is probably user page.
Regards, Raphael
Am .04.2017, 13:36 Uhr, schrieb Randall Wood
<ra...@alexandriasoftware.com>:
> Is a developer who uses the NetBeans platform in a third party
> application a user or developer?
>
> Randall Wood
>
>
>> On Apr 10, 2017, at 07:30, Geertjan Wielenga
>> <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Good news.
>>
>> Gj
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
>>> users
>>>> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
>>> and
>>>> use another main website.
>>>>
>>>> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve
>>>> as
>>>> much of the site / links as possible.
>>>>
>>>> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website:
>>>> we
>>>> should follow the same path!
>>>>
>>>> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool,
>>>> it's
>>>> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike,
>>>> say,
>>>> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so
>>>> many
>>>> drastic changes.
>>>
>>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>>
>>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>>
>>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>>
>>> With regards,
>>> Daniel.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
>>>> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>>>>
>>>> --emi
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
That person, in Apache terminology, is a user -- a user of the NetBeans
APIs.
Initially we'll have one mailing list for all users, same as with all other
Apache projects, and then -- but only as needed -- split off to other
mailing lists.
Gj
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:36 PM, Randall Wood <
randall.h.wood@alexandriasoftware.com> wrote:
> Is a developer who uses the NetBeans platform in a third party application
> a user or developer?
>
> Randall Wood
>
>
> > On Apr 10, 2017, at 07:30, Geertjan Wielenga <
> geertjan.wielenga@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Good news.
> >
> > Gj
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
> >> users
> >>> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
> >> and
> >>> use another main website.
> >>>
> >>> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve
> as
> >>> much of the site / links as possible.
> >>>
> >>> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website:
> we
> >>> should follow the same path!
> >>>
> >>> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool,
> it's
> >>> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
> >>> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so
> many
> >>> drastic changes.
> >>
> >> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
> >>
> >> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
> >> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
> >>
> >> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
> >> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
> >> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
> >> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
> >>
> >> With regards,
> >> Daniel.
> >>
> >>>
> >>> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
> >>> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
> >>>
> >>> --emi
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Randall Wood <ra...@alexandriasoftware.com>.
Is a developer who uses the NetBeans platform in a third party application a user or developer?
Randall Wood
> On Apr 10, 2017, at 07:30, Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Good news.
>
> Gj
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
>> users
>>> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
>> and
>>> use another main website.
>>>
>>> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
>>> much of the site / links as possible.
>>>
>>> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
>>> should follow the same path!
>>>
>>> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
>>> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
>>> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
>>> drastic changes.
>>
>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>
>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>
>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>>
>>> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
>>> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>
>>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Simon IJskes <si...@ijskes.org>.
Would this be the time to write this down in the wiki?
I can make a start if you want.
G. Simon
On 10-04-17 13:30, Geertjan Wielenga wrote:
> Good news.
>
> Gj
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
>> users
>>> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
>> and
>>> use another main website.
>>>
>>> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
>>> much of the site / links as possible.
>>>
>>> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
>>> should follow the same path!
>>>
>>> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
>>> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
>>> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
>>> drastic changes.
>>
>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>
>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>
>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>
>> With regards,
>> Daniel.
>>
>>>
>>> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
>>> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>
>>
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Geertjan Wielenga <ge...@googlemail.com>.
Good news.
Gj
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
> users
> > if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
> and
> > use another main website.
> >
> > It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> > much of the site / links as possible.
> >
> > OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
> > should follow the same path!
> >
> > The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
> > also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
> > Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
> > drastic changes.
>
> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>
> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>
> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> > The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
> > anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
> >
> > --emi
> >
>
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> The only obligatory thing is that the developer site must be at
netbeans.apache.org.
This is what I've been assuming all along but somehow it seemed almost
settled that we will use a single website for everybody.
I agree with this netbeans.org / netbeans.apache.org split.
--emi
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our
> users
> > if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki
> and
> > use another main website.
> >
> > It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> > much of the site / links as possible.
> >
> > OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
> > should follow the same path!
> >
> > The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
> > also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
> > Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
> > drastic changes.
>
> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>
> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>
> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>
> With regards,
> Daniel.
>
> >
> > The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
> > anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
> >
> > --emi
> >
>
>
Aw: Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache
move
Posted by Christian Lenz <Ch...@gmx.net>.
There is really no need to have 2 websites exists out there. This is more confusing to have netbeans.org and netbeans.apache.org for developers and users.
> Gesendet: Montag, 10. April 2017 um 13:41 Uhr
> Von: "Neil C Smith" <ne...@googlemail.com>
> An: dev@netbeans.incubator.apache.org
> Betreff: Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
>
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 at 12:27 Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
> >
> > 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
> > 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
> >
> > The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
> > for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
> > standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
> > developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
> >
>
> Emi - thanks for kicking off this thread! The other example I had in mind
> as well as OpenOffice, and possibly more relevant in its audience, is
> Groovy.
>
> http://groovy-lang.org/
>
> It is interesting to see where http://groovy.apache.org goes! :-) Does
> that mean that we really need two sites, or can forward the Apache domain
> to netbeans.org?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil C Smith
> Artist & Technologist
> www.neilcsmith.net
>
> Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Simon IJskes <si...@ijskes.org>.
On 10-04-17 13:55, Raphael Bircher wrote:
> At OpenOffice, we didn't split the page, we moved the whole site to ASF
> Infrastructure and run it under the openoffice.org domain. And made a
> mall new site for developers on openoffice.apache.org. This was a big
> chance to get important informations updated ;-)
+1
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Raphael Bircher <rb...@gmail.com>.
Hi all
Am .04.2017, 13:41 Uhr, schrieb Neil C Smith
<ne...@googlemail.com>:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 at 12:27 Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>
>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>
>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>
>
> Emi - thanks for kicking off this thread! The other example I had in
> mind
> as well as OpenOffice, and possibly more relevant in its audience, is
> Groovy.
>
> http://groovy-lang.org/
>
> It is interesting to see where http://groovy.apache.org goes! :-) Does
> that mean that we really need two sites, or can forward the Apache domain
> to netbeans.org?
At OpenOffice, we didn't split the page, we moved the whole site to ASF
Infrastructure and run it under the openoffice.org domain. And made a mall
new site for developers on openoffice.apache.org. This was a big chance to
get important informations updated ;-)
Regards Raphael
--
My introduction https://youtu.be/Ln4vly5sxYU
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10-04-2017 13:41, Neil C Smith wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 at 12:27 Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>>
>> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
>> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>>
>> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
>> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
>> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
>> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>>
>
> Emi - thanks for kicking off this thread! The other example I had in mind
> as well as OpenOffice, and possibly more relevant in its audience, is
> Groovy.
>
> http://groovy-lang.org/
>
> It is interesting to see where http://groovy.apache.org goes! :-) Does
> that mean that we really need two sites, or can forward the Apache domain
> to netbeans.org?
Groovy is in a bit of a juggling match at the moment. It is not standard
protocol, and you'll likely get a big fat no if you suggest the same
procedure for netbeans.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Neil
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Neil C Smith <ne...@googlemail.com>.
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 at 12:27 Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org> wrote:
> There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
>
> 1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
> 2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
>
> The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
> for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
> standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
> developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
>
Emi - thanks for kicking off this thread! The other example I had in mind
as well as OpenOffice, and possibly more relevant in its audience, is
Groovy.
http://groovy-lang.org/
It is interesting to see where http://groovy.apache.org goes! :-) Does
that mean that we really need two sites, or can forward the Apache domain
to netbeans.org?
Best wishes,
Neil
--
Neil C Smith
Artist & Technologist
www.neilcsmith.net
Praxis LIVE - hybrid visual IDE for creative coding - www.praxislive.org
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Daniel Gruno <hu...@apache.org>.
On 10-04-2017 13:22, Emilian Bold wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I believe all the Incubation changes will take a serious toll on our users
> if we have to change the mailing lists, drop the forums, move the wiki and
> use another main website.
>
> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> much of the site / links as possible.
>
> OpenOffice for example uses the https://www.openoffice.org/ website: we
> should follow the same path!
>
> The way I see it, NetBeans is not just a developer library or tool, it's
> also a product. So, we have different categories of users, unlike, say,
> Apache Commons IO. We will be hurting ourselves as a product with so many
> drastic changes.
There are two audiences here, keep that in mind:
1) USERS of NetBeans (who will visit www.netbeans.org)
2) DEVELOPERS of NetBeans (who will visit netbeans.apache.org)
The best way to handle this is simply to, yes, have two web sites - one
for users of the project and one for the developers. There is nothing
standing in the way of that. The only obligatory thing is that the
developer site must be at netbeans.apache.org.
With regards,
Daniel.
>
> The transition should be smooth: existing and new users should not see
> anything new except the good news that we are under Apache now!
>
> --emi
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Emilian Bold <em...@gmail.com>.
> Is Oracle also donating the netbeans.org domain?
Of course. https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/NetBeansProposal :
> Oracle owns trademark registrations for the NetBeans mark in the U.S. and
EU, and would donate those, including the name "NetBeans" and the "
netbeans.org" domain, to the Apache Foundation, along with other artifacts,
including the U.S. copyright registrations related to NetBeans. The
trademark and copyright transfers would be detailed in separate documents.
--emi
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 5:32 PM, Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com> wrote:
> On 04/10/2017 06:22 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> > It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> > much of the site / links as possible.
>
> Is Oracle also donating the netbeans.org domain?
>
> --
> Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
> "After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."
>
Re: Preserving the existing NetBeans website after the Apache move
Posted by Glenn Holmer <ce...@kolabnow.com>.
On 04/10/2017 06:22 AM, Emilian Bold wrote:
> It seems essential to me to use the netbeans.org domain and preserve as
> much of the site / links as possible.
Is Oracle also donating the netbeans.org domain?
--
Glenn Holmer (Linux registered user #16682)
"After the vintage season came the aftermath -- and Cenbe."