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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com> on 2020/12/24 12:01:47 UTC
[discuss] CentOS announcement
You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS project. [1] [2]
At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the stability that we probably expect
So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others settle on.
[1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming | TechRadar<https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming>
[2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
[3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
[4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
Kind regards
Giles
giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com
3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
@shapeblue
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Matthew Smart <ms...@smartsoftwareinc.com>.
My hope is that Fermilab will announce it is reversing its decision to
discontinue Scientific Linux as of RHEL 7. It was only about a year ago
that they decided to stop the project and contribute to CentOS instead.
When Centos was having organizational issues a few years ago I switched
to Scientific Linux for pretty much the whole RHEL 6 cycle. Having a
distro shepherded by Fermilab with contributions from other major labs
would ensure stability and operational decisions that are not profit
motivated. Their board plans to issue a statement on the Centos issue
next month.
Matthew Smart
President
Smart Software Solutions Inc.
108 S Pierre St.
Pierre, SD 57501
Phone: (605) 280-0383
Skype: msmart13
Email: msmart@smartsoftwareinc.com
On 12/24/20 9:31 AM, Sven Vogel wrote:
> Hi Giles, hi Daan,
>
> Thanks for the discussion Giles. It was a matter of time that since Red hat was bought from IBM that they go another way.
>
> I saw the discussion about the possible successor Rocky but I think the next month will make it more clear where the market is leading to.
>
> For us it’s important to support independent of CentOS the commercial distribution of RHEL. Red Hat is one of the largest supporter of KVM and so its strategic to support RHEL further in the future of CloudStack.
>
> After some time and if it’s more clear what the future of CentOS will be and the possible successor I think we should think about to change this in the community.
>
> I would wait until that stage and observe the situation and then make a decision in the community.
>
> Cheers and merry Christmas.
>
> Sven
>
>
>
> __
>
> Sven Vogel
> Lead Cloud Solution Architect
>
> EWERK DIGITAL GmbH
> Brühl 24, D-04109 Leipzig
> P +49 341 42649 - 99
> F +49 341 42649 - 98
> S.Vogel@ewerk.com
> www.ewerk.com
>
> Geschäftsführer:
> Dr. Erik Wende, Hendrik Schubert, Tassilo Möschke
> Registergericht: Leipzig HRB 9065
>
> Support:
> +49 341 42649 555
>
> Zertifiziert nach:
> ISO/IEC 27001:2013
> DIN EN ISO 9001:2015
> DIN ISO/IEC 20000-1:2011
>
> ISAE 3402 Typ II Assessed
>
> EWERK-Blog<https://blog.ewerk.com/> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ewerk-group> | Xing<https://www.xing.com/company/ewerk> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/EWERK_Group> | Facebook<https://de-de.facebook.com/EWERK.IT/>
>
>
> Auskünfte und Angebote per Mail sind freibleibend und unverbindlich.
>
> Disclaimer Privacy:
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>
> The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of its contents is strictly prohibited, and you should please notify the sender immediately and then delete it (including any attachments) from your system. Thank you.
>
> ________________________________
> Von: Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>
> Gesendet: Thursday, December 24, 2020 3:02:36 PM
> An: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>
> Betreff: Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
>
> thanks for starting this discussion thread @Giles Sirett
> <gi...@shapeblue.com> . Personally I'd like to not "vote" on
> anything. Especially not at this moment. I think a discussion is good
> though. My personal (and most definitely not my business) take on this is
> to go for fedora. It is unlikely it will find business traction but it does
> appear to be the most stable distribution funnily enough, especially in the
> redhat/rpm-verse. I hope we can witness a clear trend over the next twelve
> months to make a kind of final decision by the end of next year.
> #excitingtimes
>
> On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS
>> project. [1] [2]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the
>> stability that we probably expect
>>
>>
>>
>> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going
>> forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>>
>>
>>
>> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and
>> maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we
>> need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of
>> emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of
>> Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this
>> decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others
>> settle on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming |
>> TechRadar<
>> https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming
>> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<
>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
>> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
>> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Giles
>>
>>
>> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
>> www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
>> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
>> @shapeblue
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Daan
>
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Sven Vogel <S....@ewerk.com>.
Hi Giles, hi Daan,
Thanks for the discussion Giles. It was a matter of time that since Red hat was bought from IBM that they go another way.
I saw the discussion about the possible successor Rocky but I think the next month will make it more clear where the market is leading to.
For us it’s important to support independent of CentOS the commercial distribution of RHEL. Red Hat is one of the largest supporter of KVM and so its strategic to support RHEL further in the future of CloudStack.
After some time and if it’s more clear what the future of CentOS will be and the possible successor I think we should think about to change this in the community.
I would wait until that stage and observe the situation and then make a decision in the community.
Cheers and merry Christmas.
Sven
__
Sven Vogel
Lead Cloud Solution Architect
EWERK DIGITAL GmbH
Brühl 24, D-04109 Leipzig
P +49 341 42649 - 99
F +49 341 42649 - 98
S.Vogel@ewerk.com
www.ewerk.com
Geschäftsführer:
Dr. Erik Wende, Hendrik Schubert, Tassilo Möschke
Registergericht: Leipzig HRB 9065
Support:
+49 341 42649 555
Zertifiziert nach:
ISO/IEC 27001:2013
DIN EN ISO 9001:2015
DIN ISO/IEC 20000-1:2011
ISAE 3402 Typ II Assessed
EWERK-Blog<https://blog.ewerk.com/> | LinkedIn<https://www.linkedin.com/company/ewerk-group> | Xing<https://www.xing.com/company/ewerk> | Twitter<https://twitter.com/EWERK_Group> | Facebook<https://de-de.facebook.com/EWERK.IT/>
Auskünfte und Angebote per Mail sind freibleibend und unverbindlich.
Disclaimer Privacy:
Der Inhalt dieser E-Mail (einschließlich etwaiger beigefügter Dateien) ist vertraulich und nur für den Empfänger bestimmt. Sollten Sie nicht der bestimmungsgemäße Empfänger sein, ist Ihnen jegliche Offenlegung, Vervielfältigung, Weitergabe oder Nutzung des Inhalts untersagt. Bitte informieren Sie in diesem Fall unverzüglich den Absender und löschen Sie die E-Mail (einschließlich etwaiger beigefügter Dateien) von Ihrem System. Vielen Dank.
The contents of this e-mail (including any attachments) are confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of its contents is strictly prohibited, and you should please notify the sender immediately and then delete it (including any attachments) from your system. Thank you.
________________________________
Von: Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>
Gesendet: Thursday, December 24, 2020 3:02:36 PM
An: dev <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>; Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>
Betreff: Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
thanks for starting this discussion thread @Giles Sirett
<gi...@shapeblue.com> . Personally I'd like to not "vote" on
anything. Especially not at this moment. I think a discussion is good
though. My personal (and most definitely not my business) take on this is
to go for fedora. It is unlikely it will find business traction but it does
appear to be the most stable distribution funnily enough, especially in the
redhat/rpm-verse. I hope we can witness a clear trend over the next twelve
months to make a kind of final decision by the end of next year.
#excitingtimes
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS
> project. [1] [2]
>
>
>
>
>
> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the
> stability that we probably expect
>
>
>
> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going
> forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>
>
>
> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and
> maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we
> need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of
> emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of
> Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>
>
>
> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this
> decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others
> settle on.
>
>
>
>
> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming |
> TechRadar<
> https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming
> >
>
> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>
> Kind regards
> Giles
>
>
> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>
>
--
Daan
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Daan Hoogland <da...@gmail.com>.
thanks for starting this discussion thread @Giles Sirett
<gi...@shapeblue.com> . Personally I'd like to not "vote" on
anything. Especially not at this moment. I think a discussion is good
though. My personal (and most definitely not my business) take on this is
to go for fedora. It is unlikely it will find business traction but it does
appear to be the most stable distribution funnily enough, especially in the
redhat/rpm-verse. I hope we can witness a clear trend over the next twelve
months to make a kind of final decision by the end of next year.
#excitingtimes
On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 12:02 PM Giles Sirett <gi...@shapeblue.com>
wrote:
> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS
> project. [1] [2]
>
>
>
>
>
> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the
> stability that we probably expect
>
>
>
> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going
> forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>
>
>
> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and
> maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we
> need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of
> emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of
> Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>
>
>
> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this
> decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others
> settle on.
>
>
>
>
> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming |
> TechRadar<
> https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming
> >
>
> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>
> Kind regards
> Giles
>
>
> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com
> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>
>
--
Daan
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.
(looks like pressing enter sent the email)
Here's the doc PR: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack-documentation/pull/173
Regards.
________________________________
From: Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2020 17:27
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
We've added support for CentOS 8 in 4.15 (milestone, both as a management server and KVM host). I think it's sensible to wait and see what replaces CentOS and CentOS7 users can continue to use it until 2024 (unless Redhat decides otherwise). I've proposed a PR to add the EOL note in our release notes 4.15:
Regards.
________________________________
From: Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 01:07
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
My opinion at the moment: Wait until the dust settles.
CloudStack should mainly release RPM based packages which work with systemd.
In the end many distros nowadays boil down to:
- DEB or RPM
- systemd
Yes, dependencies might differ in names and versions, but these are the
main differences between Linux distributions.
I could well be that CloudStacks works on CentOS Stream, Rocky, SL and
many other RPM based distributions.
But since this is all very fresh I would wait for now and see how this
turns out.
Wido
On 12/24/20 1:01 PM, Giles Sirett wrote:
> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS project. [1] [2]
>
>
>
>
>
> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the stability that we probably expect
>
>
>
> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>
>
>
> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>
>
>
> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others settle on.
>
>
>
>
> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming | TechRadar<https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming>
>
> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>
> Kind regards
> Giles
>
>
> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>
rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
@shapeblue
rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com
3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
@shapeblue
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.
We've added support for CentOS 8 in 4.15 (milestone, both as a management server and KVM host). I think it's sensible to wait and see what replaces CentOS and CentOS7 users can continue to use it until 2024 (unless Redhat decides otherwise). I've proposed a PR to add the EOL note in our release notes 4.15:
Regards.
________________________________
From: Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 01:07
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org <de...@cloudstack.apache.org>
Subject: Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
My opinion at the moment: Wait until the dust settles.
CloudStack should mainly release RPM based packages which work with systemd.
In the end many distros nowadays boil down to:
- DEB or RPM
- systemd
Yes, dependencies might differ in names and versions, but these are the
main differences between Linux distributions.
I could well be that CloudStacks works on CentOS Stream, Rocky, SL and
many other RPM based distributions.
But since this is all very fresh I would wait for now and see how this
turns out.
Wido
On 12/24/20 1:01 PM, Giles Sirett wrote:
> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS project. [1] [2]
>
>
>
>
>
> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the stability that we probably expect
>
>
>
> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>
>
>
> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>
>
>
> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others settle on.
>
>
>
>
> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming | TechRadar<https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming>
>
> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>
> Kind regards
> Giles
>
>
> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com>
> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>
rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
www.shapeblue.com
3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
@shapeblue
Re: [discuss] CentOS announcement
Posted by Wido den Hollander <wi...@widodh.nl>.
My opinion at the moment: Wait until the dust settles.
CloudStack should mainly release RPM based packages which work with systemd.
In the end many distros nowadays boil down to:
- DEB or RPM
- systemd
Yes, dependencies might differ in names and versions, but these are the
main differences between Linux distributions.
I could well be that CloudStacks works on CentOS Stream, Rocky, SL and
many other RPM based distributions.
But since this is all very fresh I would wait for now and see how this
turns out.
Wido
On 12/24/20 1:01 PM, Giles Sirett wrote:
> You may have seen this news recently announced by Redhat and the CentOS project. [1] [2]
>
>
>
>
>
> At this early stage, it looks like CentOS Stream will not provide the stability that we probably expect
>
>
>
> So, what Linux distro should we be targeting for MS and KVM agents going forward ? I guess this is a decision that we have to make as a project.
>
>
>
> CentOS 7 will receive full updates only until the year end (Q4 2020) and maintenance updates will continue until 30 June 2024, so I don't think we need to rush this decision. Also, I think that there will be a lot of emerging competitors to fill the void, like the recent announcement of Rocky. [3] gives a good summary of current choices
>
>
>
> I guess, actually, the question is: *when* should we aim to make this decision ? - the advantage of leaving it is we are able to see what others settle on.
>
>
>
>
> [1] Red Hat makes drastic changes to CentOS, leaves users fuming | TechRadar<https://www.techradar.com/news/red-hat-makes-drastic-changes-to-centos-leaves-users-fuming>
>
> [2] CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream - Blog.CentOS.org<https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/>
> [3] About/Product - CentOS Wiki<https://wiki.centos.org/About/Product>
> [4] Where CentOS Linux users can go from here | ZDNet<https://www.zdnet.com/article/where-centos-linux-users-can-go-from-here/>
>
> Kind regards
> Giles
>
>
> giles.sirett@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com
> 3 London Bridge Street, 3rd floor, News Building, London SE1 9SGUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>