Does ws-rm work with jms?

[Jens Goldhammer <go...@googlemail.com>]

Hello,

I have a question according ws-rm! Does it also work with jms as 
underlying application protocol? In my mind it would make sense to have 
reliablity information in the soap-message itself (to make switches 
between the protocols), but jms also provides reliable aspects.

Thanks,
Jens

Re: Does ws-rm work with jms?

[Jens Goldhammer <go...@googlemail.com>]

Me again,

I have made some further thoughts:
If I have an infrastructure like an ESB, I will have something similar 
to JMS if the implementation supports WS-RM and a message store. Let´s 
say that the serviceprovider is down and not available in the time of 
sending a message to the esb. The difference is now that the ESB polls 
messages out to get a first connection to an endpoint, while jms uses 
another approach by fetching the message from the queue. Can you 
evaluate if this overhead is something which makes http useless in the 
case that the provider is often not down? Do you see any usecase for 
using ws-rm than because it produces so much overhead? It is not better 
to use jms than http?

Thanks,
Jens

Paul Fremantle schrieb:
> Jens
>
> In theory you could layer these two, but I don't think it makes sense,
> as you effectively add double the work of making sure the message is
> reliable. What is more commonly discussed is to use Synapse to bridge
> between RM and JMS.
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Jens Goldhammer
> <go...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Hello,
>>
>>  I have a question according ws-rm! Does it also work with jms as
>>  underlying application protocol? In my mind it would make sense to have
>>  reliablity information in the soap-message itself (to make switches
>>  between the protocols), but jms also provides reliable aspects.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Jens
>>
>>     
>
>
>
>   

Re: Does ws-rm work with jms?

[Jens Goldhammer <go...@googlemail.com>]

Glen, Paul,

thanks for the comments. Do you really see soap-transport of http on one 
level like jms with the complete ws-specs like ws-notification?
HTTP has the problem of being limited to point-to-point communications 
and having only synchronous invocations. But does jms not having the 
same problems? You can only send one message to one queue, the 
infrastructure takes the rest (can take your messages and deliver them 
to different endpoints or other queues). In my eyes, Synapse can take 
that too with messages over http with a clone-mediator!
The other thing is that http expects an answer from the other partner, a 
202 is enough. JMS underlies the same thing because you have to 
completely send a message and e.g. get back the jms-message-id after a 
successfull delivery to the queue. So the asynchronous thing only 
belongs also to the infrastructure.

Do you agree with me? Or I am wrong?
Thanks,
Jens



Glen Daniels schrieb:
> +1 to Paul's comments.  There's a situation when using end-to-end 
> WS-Security to sign or encrypt a WS-RM message that passes through a 
> JMS transport hop (but also HTTP hops) along its path - in that case 
> you'll pass the WS-RM headers through, but typically the thing 
> directly on the other side of the JMS link doesn't actually do the RM 
> state machine itself.
>
> --Glen
>
> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>> Jens
>>
>> In theory you could layer these two, but I don't think it makes sense,
>> as you effectively add double the work of making sure the message is
>> reliable. What is more commonly discussed is to use Synapse to bridge
>> between RM and JMS.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Jens Goldhammer
>> <go...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>  I have a question according ws-rm! Does it also work with jms as
>>>  underlying application protocol? In my mind it would make sense to 
>>> have
>>>  reliablity information in the soap-message itself (to make switches
>>>  between the protocols), but jms also provides reliable aspects.
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>  Jens
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: Does ws-rm work with jms?

[Glen Daniels <gl...@thoughtcraft.com>]

+1 to Paul's comments.  There's a situation when using end-to-end 
WS-Security to sign or encrypt a WS-RM message that passes through a JMS 
transport hop (but also HTTP hops) along its path - in that case you'll 
pass the WS-RM headers through, but typically the thing directly on the 
other side of the JMS link doesn't actually do the RM state machine itself.

--Glen

Paul Fremantle wrote:
> Jens
> 
> In theory you could layer these two, but I don't think it makes sense,
> as you effectively add double the work of making sure the message is
> reliable. What is more commonly discussed is to use Synapse to bridge
> between RM and JMS.
> 
> Paul
> 
> On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Jens Goldhammer
> <go...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>>  I have a question according ws-rm! Does it also work with jms as
>>  underlying application protocol? In my mind it would make sense to have
>>  reliablity information in the soap-message itself (to make switches
>>  between the protocols), but jms also provides reliable aspects.
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>  Jens
>>
> 
> 
> 

Re: Does ws-rm work with jms?

[Paul Fremantle <pz...@gmail.com>]

Jens

In theory you could layer these two, but I don't think it makes sense,
as you effectively add double the work of making sure the message is
reliable. What is more commonly discussed is to use Synapse to bridge
between RM and JMS.

Paul

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 9:45 AM, Jens Goldhammer
<go...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  I have a question according ws-rm! Does it also work with jms as
>  underlying application protocol? In my mind it would make sense to have
>  reliablity information in the soap-message itself (to make switches
>  between the protocols), but jms also provides reliable aspects.
>
>  Thanks,
>  Jens
>



-- 
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
Apache Synapse PMC Chair
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair

blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
paul@wso2.com

"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com