Focus

[Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>]

Hey all,

I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.

DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I want is find a way to make us all more productive.

* * *


With that out of the way:


Let’s Focus!


My hypothesis is this:

  This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up. Historically, whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included) tend to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we end up doing less than we could.


My proposal to solve this:

 Say “no”.

More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while they are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and should be deferred to a later time.

For example, currently I think our most important topics are:

 - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
 - Ship 1.3.0
 - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver Futon.Next.

At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are distracting us from the points above done.
(This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)

Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care about at any one time.

This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings, patches we request reviews & comments on.

I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few things, we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.

* * *

It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I won’t pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going on at the same time, some by different group members, some by the same people. I also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more time, others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I won’t keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.

All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about the things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over time the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to the dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)

* * *

In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a lot more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above, can do the same.

Thanks for your time and attention!

Cheers
Jan
-- 

Re: Focus

[Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>]

On Nov 10, 2012, at 08:30 , Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@php.net> wrote:
>> I consider making a roadmap orthogonal to the idea of Focus.
>> 
>> We absolutely must communicate our roadmap clearly.
>> 
>> Then we can pick the top few things to focus on when we're done with the previous set of things
>> 
> 
> 
> While focus is a good thing I do consider it shouldn't stop us to have
> normal activities during a release process. While a release is
> important in term of distribution not all of us are based on it or
> want to wait the end of it to work on next features. Some of us manage
> their time differently. Some of us depending of their schedule and
> will, can dedicace more time to couchdb than others.
> 
> Having a roadmap would help them to know if what they are working on
> is part of the big plan or not. It also helps them if they need
> directions for the feature they are thinking of since it can be
> impacted by the big plan or have impact on it.
> 
> And speaking of it, focus shouldn't make us ignore or schedule
> questions not related to a release for later. Thing is that life
> continue during a release process and some still want to continue to
> improve their applications while contributing to upstream (ie the
> couchdb project) . And some are able to do both, working on the
> release and next feature anyway. It's important to answer to questions
> as fast as we can. Even more important than releasing. Releasing is a
> matter of taking a snapshot of our current code at some point, so it
> shouldn't   ask us more than "are we ready to release ?". Some who are
> working on blocking issue then will work on them and maybe on the next
> feature too. Because they can.

I agree with all of the above. For me, personally, it is just a question of where I spend the amount of time I have. Currently, I have two options:

 1. Look at the otp branch, discuss modularisation, do more armchair architecting, which is definitely fun.

 2. Review & comment on the CORS patch, help out with commenting the code, which is currently a blocking item. All of which is slightly more tedious, but gets us closer to shipping 1.3.

I choose 2. Once 2. is out of my head, I am happy to think about 1. If I try to do both, I won’t do either very well.

And while the above observation is about me, I think it safely applies to the rest of dev@. History has shown that we all work better if we can focus on a few things and knock them out of the park instead of keeping any important discussion in the air and then get frustrated because there is no progress and start yet another side thing and perpetualy move towards total inactivity.

And, just to make sure this doesn’t get lost from the original mail, we *always* will have multiple things going on, this is *not* to impose any artificial linearity on the project. The whole goal here is to get more things out faster. We can only do this if we are mindful about our collective time & attention.

Back to CORS, for me.

Cheers
Jan
--

Re: Focus

[Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>]

On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@php.net> wrote:
> I consider making a roadmap orthogonal to the idea of Focus.
>
> We absolutely must communicate our roadmap clearly.
>
> Then we can pick the top few things to focus on when we're done with the previous set of things
>


While focus is a good thing I do consider it shouldn't stop us to have
normal activities during a release process. While a release is
important in term of distribution not all of us are based on it or
want to wait the end of it to work on next features. Some of us manage
their time differently. Some of us depending of their schedule and
will, can dedicace more time to couchdb than others.

Having a roadmap would help them to know if what they are working on
is part of the big plan or not. It also helps them if they need
directions for the feature they are thinking of since it can be
impacted by the big plan or have impact on it.

And speaking of it, focus shouldn't make us ignore or schedule
questions not related to a release for later. Thing is that life
continue during a release process and some still want to continue to
improve their applications while contributing to upstream (ie the
couchdb project) . And some are able to do both, working on the
release and next feature anyway. It's important to answer to questions
as fast as we can. Even more important than releasing. Releasing is a
matter of taking a snapshot of our current code at some point, so it
shouldn't   ask us more than "are we ready to release ?". Some who are
working on blocking issue then will work on them and maybe on the next
feature too. Because they can.


- benoît

Re: Focus

[Jan Lehnardt <ja...@php.net>]

I consider making a roadmap orthogonal to the idea of Focus.

We absolutely must communicate our roadmap clearly.

Then we can pick the top few things to focus on when we're done with the previous set of things 

Cheers
Jan
--

On 09.11.2012, at 15:18, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> I'm fine with punting this, but I do want to express my concern about
> getting this written down. We've never had a roadmap, of any sort. And I
> think we need one. Documenting our current focus, and possible future
> focuses seems like a good step in that direction. If we don't want to
> document this right now, I will come back to this post-1.3.
> 
> On 8 November 2012 14:13, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Nov 6, 2012, at 17:03 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think this is a great initiative Jan.
>>> 
>>> I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I
>> am
>>> working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
>>> telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
>>> happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
>>> 
>>> But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is
>> unimportant,
>>> or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
>>> that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT
>> LEVEL
>>> focus.
>>> 
>>> And so, with that caveat out of the way...
>>> 
>>> Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the
>> wiki?
>>> We should document this.
>>> 
>>> I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
>>> our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
>>> list of areas to focus on in the future.
>>> 
>>> I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the
>> current
>>> focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
>>> Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
>>> add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
>>> perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
>>> 
>>> A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
>>> might be a good thing to come out of this too.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>> 
>> 
>> My intention with this thread is to try to create a “culture of ship”.
>> (I’ll be sending out t-shirts, when we succeed). I don’t think making
>> this a more formal thing isn’t going to do much.
>> 
>> I think the weekly status meetings are great way to formally keep
>> track of the progress we make through our collective roadmap (which
>> we also need to work on a little bit more structured, but one thing
>> at a time.
>> 
>> Let’s ship 1.3.0.
>> 
>> Jan
>> --
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> 
>>>> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
>>>> 
>>>> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I
>>>> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> With that out of the way:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Let’s Focus!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My hypothesis is this:
>>>> 
>>>> This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
>>>> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
>>>> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
>> Historically,
>>>> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
>> tend
>>>> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we
>>>> end up doing less than we could.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My proposal to solve this:
>>>> 
>>>> Say “no”.
>>>> 
>>>> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
>> they
>>>> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and
>> should
>>>> be deferred to a later time.
>>>> 
>>>> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
>>>> 
>>>> - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
>>>> - Ship 1.3.0
>>>> - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
>>>> Futon.Next.
>>>> 
>>>> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
>>>> distracting us from the points above done.
>>>> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
>>>> 
>>>> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
>>>> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
>>>> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
>>>> about at any one time.
>>>> 
>>>> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings,
>> patches
>>>> we request reviews & comments on.
>>>> 
>>>> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
>>>> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few
>> things,
>>>> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
>> won’t
>>>> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going
>> on at
>>>> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same
>> people. I
>>>> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
>>>> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
>> time,
>>>> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
>> won’t
>>>> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
>>>> 
>>>> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about
>> the
>>>> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how
>>>> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over
>> time
>>>> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
>> the
>>>> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right
>>>> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
>> lot
>>>> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above,
>> can
>>>> do the same.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your time and attention!
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jan
>>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> NS
> 
> 
> -- 
> NS

Re: Focus

[Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>]

I'm fine with punting this, but I do want to express my concern about
getting this written down. We've never had a roadmap, of any sort. And I
think we need one. Documenting our current focus, and possible future
focuses seems like a good step in that direction. If we don't want to
document this right now, I will come back to this post-1.3.

On 8 November 2012 14:13, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:

>
> On Nov 6, 2012, at 17:03 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I think this is a great initiative Jan.
> >
> > I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I
> am
> > working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
> > telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
> > happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
> >
> > But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is
> unimportant,
> > or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
> > that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT
> LEVEL
> > focus.
> >
> > And so, with that caveat out of the way...
> >
> > Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the
> wiki?
> > We should document this.
> >
> > I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
> > our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
> > list of areas to focus on in the future.
> >
> > I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the
> current
> > focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
> > Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
> > add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
> > perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
> >
> > A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
> > might be a good thing to come out of this too.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
>
> My intention with this thread is to try to create a “culture of ship”.
> (I’ll be sending out t-shirts, when we succeed). I don’t think making
> this a more formal thing isn’t going to do much.
>
> I think the weekly status meetings are great way to formally keep
> track of the progress we make through our collective roadmap (which
> we also need to work on a little bit more structured, but one thing
> at a time.
>
> Let’s ship 1.3.0.
>
> Jan
> --
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
> >>
> >> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I
> >> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
> >>
> >> * * *
> >>
> >>
> >> With that out of the way:
> >>
> >>
> >> Let’s Focus!
> >>
> >>
> >> My hypothesis is this:
> >>
> >>  This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
> >> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
> >> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
> Historically,
> >> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
> tend
> >> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we
> >> end up doing less than we could.
> >>
> >>
> >> My proposal to solve this:
> >>
> >> Say “no”.
> >>
> >> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
> they
> >> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and
> should
> >> be deferred to a later time.
> >>
> >> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
> >>
> >> - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
> >> - Ship 1.3.0
> >> - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
> >> Futon.Next.
> >>
> >> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
> >> distracting us from the points above done.
> >> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
> >>
> >> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
> >> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
> >> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
> >> about at any one time.
> >>
> >> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings,
> patches
> >> we request reviews & comments on.
> >>
> >> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
> >> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few
> things,
> >> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
> >>
> >> * * *
> >>
> >> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
> won’t
> >> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going
> on at
> >> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same
> people. I
> >> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
> >> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
> time,
> >> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
> won’t
> >> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
> >>
> >> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about
> the
> >> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how
> >> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over
> time
> >> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
> the
> >> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
> >>
> >> * * *
> >>
> >> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right
> >> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
> lot
> >> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above,
> can
> >> do the same.
> >>
> >> Thanks for your time and attention!
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Jan
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
>
>


-- 
NS

Re: Focus

[Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>]

On Nov 6, 2012, at 17:03 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> I think this is a great initiative Jan.
> 
> I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I am
> working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
> telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
> happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
> 
> But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is unimportant,
> or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
> that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT LEVEL
> focus.
> 
> And so, with that caveat out of the way...
> 
> Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the wiki?
> We should document this.
> 
> I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
> our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
> list of areas to focus on in the future.
> 
> I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the current
> focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
> Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
> add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
> perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
> 
> A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
> might be a good thing to come out of this too.
> 
> Thoughts?


My intention with this thread is to try to create a “culture of ship”.
(I’ll be sending out t-shirts, when we succeed). I don’t think making
this a more formal thing isn’t going to do much.

I think the weekly status meetings are great way to formally keep
track of the progress we make through our collective roadmap (which
we also need to work on a little bit more structured, but one thing
at a time.

Let’s ship 1.3.0.

Jan
--


> 
> 
> On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hey all,
>> 
>> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I
>> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
>> 
>> * * *
>> 
>> 
>> With that out of the way:
>> 
>> 
>> Let’s Focus!
>> 
>> 
>> My hypothesis is this:
>> 
>>  This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
>> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
>> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up. Historically,
>> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included) tend
>> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we
>> end up doing less than we could.
>> 
>> 
>> My proposal to solve this:
>> 
>> Say “no”.
>> 
>> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while they
>> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and should
>> be deferred to a later time.
>> 
>> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
>> 
>> - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
>> - Ship 1.3.0
>> - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
>> Futon.Next.
>> 
>> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
>> distracting us from the points above done.
>> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
>> 
>> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
>> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
>> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
>> about at any one time.
>> 
>> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings, patches
>> we request reviews & comments on.
>> 
>> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
>> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few things,
>> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
>> 
>> * * *
>> 
>> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I won’t
>> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going on at
>> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same people. I
>> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
>> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more time,
>> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I won’t
>> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
>> 
>> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about the
>> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how
>> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over time
>> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to the
>> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
>> 
>> * * *
>> 
>> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right
>> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a lot
>> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above, can
>> do the same.
>> 
>> Thanks for your time and attention!
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Jan
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> NS

Re: Focus

[Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>]

i'm +1 to focus. Actually the things I want to focus are CORS (quite
done module dale observations), make couchdb more OTPish (including
rebarification)  and plugins.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@php.net> wrote:
> On 06.11.2012, at 18:37, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Octavian, I think Jan was just saying that Futon.Next should be part of our
>> current focus.
>>
>> The 1.3 release is orthogonal. We cut it when we cut it. :)
>
> Correct, thanks for the clarification! :)
>
> Jan
> --
>
>
>
>>
>> On 6 November 2012 17:06, Octavian Damiean <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Quick question. Apparently I misunderstood something in the first meeting
>>> because I was thinking that Futon.Next is such a if it's ready for 1.3 we
>>> ship it if not then in 1.4.
>>>
>>> I'm asking because Futon.Current can do everything necessary at the moment,
>>> which makes Futon.Next a non-stopper in my opinion. I'm just asking, not
>>> trying to discuss or propose anything.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think this is a great initiative Jan.
>>>>
>>>> I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I
>>> am
>>>> working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
>>>> telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
>>>> happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
>>>>
>>>> But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is
>>> unimportant,
>>>> or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
>>>> that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT
>>> LEVEL
>>>> focus.
>>>>
>>>> And so, with that caveat out of the way...
>>>>
>>>> Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the
>>> wiki?
>>>> We should document this.
>>>>
>>>> I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
>>>> our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
>>>> list of areas to focus on in the future.
>>>>
>>>> I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the
>>> current
>>>> focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
>>>> Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
>>>> add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
>>>> perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
>>>>
>>>> A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
>>>> might be a good thing to come out of this too.
>>>>
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
>>>>>
>>>>> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All
>>> I
>>>>> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
>>>>>
>>>>> * * *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With that out of the way:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Let’s Focus!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My hypothesis is this:
>>>>>
>>>>>  This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
>>>>> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
>>>>> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
>>>> Historically,
>>>>> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
>>>> tend
>>>>> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result
>>> we
>>>>> end up doing less than we could.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal to solve this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Say “no”.
>>>>>
>>>>> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
>>>> they
>>>>> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and
>>> should
>>>>> be deferred to a later time.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
>>>>>
>>>>> - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
>>>>> - Ship 1.3.0
>>>>> - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
>>>>> Futon.Next.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
>>>>> distracting us from the points above done.
>>>>> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
>>>>> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
>>>>> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
>>>>> about at any one time.
>>>>>
>>>>> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings,
>>> patches
>>>>> we request reviews & comments on.
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
>>>>> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few
>>> things,
>>>>> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
>>>>>
>>>>> * * *
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
>>>> won’t
>>>>> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going
>>> on
>>>> at
>>>>> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same
>>> people.
>>>> I
>>>>> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
>>>>> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
>>>> time,
>>>>> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
>>>> won’t
>>>>> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about
>>> the
>>>>> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on
>>> how
>>>>> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over
>>> time
>>>>> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
>>>> the
>>>>> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> * * *
>>>>>
>>>>> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant
>>> right
>>>>> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
>>>> lot
>>>>> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above,
>>> can
>>>>> do the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your time and attention!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> NS
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> NS

Re: Focus

[Jan Lehnardt <ja...@php.net>]

On 06.11.2012, at 18:37, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> Octavian, I think Jan was just saying that Futon.Next should be part of our
> current focus.
> 
> The 1.3 release is orthogonal. We cut it when we cut it. :)

Correct, thanks for the clarification! :)

Jan
--



> 
> On 6 November 2012 17:06, Octavian Damiean <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Quick question. Apparently I misunderstood something in the first meeting
>> because I was thinking that Futon.Next is such a if it's ready for 1.3 we
>> ship it if not then in 1.4.
>> 
>> I'm asking because Futon.Current can do everything necessary at the moment,
>> which makes Futon.Next a non-stopper in my opinion. I'm just asking, not
>> trying to discuss or propose anything.
>> 
>> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> I think this is a great initiative Jan.
>>> 
>>> I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I
>> am
>>> working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
>>> telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
>>> happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
>>> 
>>> But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is
>> unimportant,
>>> or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
>>> that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT
>> LEVEL
>>> focus.
>>> 
>>> And so, with that caveat out of the way...
>>> 
>>> Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the
>> wiki?
>>> We should document this.
>>> 
>>> I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
>>> our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
>>> list of areas to focus on in the future.
>>> 
>>> I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the
>> current
>>> focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
>>> Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
>>> add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
>>> perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
>>> 
>>> A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
>>> might be a good thing to come out of this too.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> 
>>>> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
>>>> 
>>>> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All
>> I
>>>> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> With that out of the way:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Let’s Focus!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My hypothesis is this:
>>>> 
>>>>  This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
>>>> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
>>>> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
>>> Historically,
>>>> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
>>> tend
>>>> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result
>> we
>>>> end up doing less than we could.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My proposal to solve this:
>>>> 
>>>> Say “no”.
>>>> 
>>>> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
>>> they
>>>> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and
>> should
>>>> be deferred to a later time.
>>>> 
>>>> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
>>>> 
>>>> - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
>>>> - Ship 1.3.0
>>>> - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
>>>> Futon.Next.
>>>> 
>>>> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
>>>> distracting us from the points above done.
>>>> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
>>>> 
>>>> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
>>>> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
>>>> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
>>>> about at any one time.
>>>> 
>>>> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings,
>> patches
>>>> we request reviews & comments on.
>>>> 
>>>> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
>>>> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few
>> things,
>>>> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
>>> won’t
>>>> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going
>> on
>>> at
>>>> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same
>> people.
>>> I
>>>> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
>>>> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
>>> time,
>>>> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
>>> won’t
>>>> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
>>>> 
>>>> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about
>> the
>>>> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on
>> how
>>>> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over
>> time
>>>> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
>>> the
>>>> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
>>>> 
>>>> * * *
>>>> 
>>>> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant
>> right
>>>> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
>>> lot
>>>> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above,
>> can
>>>> do the same.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your time and attention!
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jan
>>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> NS
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> NS

Re: Focus

[Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>]

Octavian, I think Jan was just saying that Futon.Next should be part of our
current focus.

The 1.3 release is orthogonal. We cut it when we cut it. :)

On 6 November 2012 17:06, Octavian Damiean <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Quick question. Apparently I misunderstood something in the first meeting
> because I was thinking that Futon.Next is such a if it's ready for 1.3 we
> ship it if not then in 1.4.
>
> I'm asking because Futon.Current can do everything necessary at the moment,
> which makes Futon.Next a non-stopper in my opinion. I'm just asking, not
> trying to discuss or propose anything.
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I think this is a great initiative Jan.
> >
> > I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I
> am
> > working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
> > telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
> > happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
> >
> > But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is
> unimportant,
> > or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
> > that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT
> LEVEL
> > focus.
> >
> > And so, with that caveat out of the way...
> >
> > Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the
> wiki?
> > We should document this.
> >
> > I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
> > our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
> > list of areas to focus on in the future.
> >
> > I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the
> current
> > focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
> > Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
> > add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
> > perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
> >
> > A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
> > might be a good thing to come out of this too.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
> > On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
> > >
> > > DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All
> I
> > > want is find a way to make us all more productive.
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > >
> > > With that out of the way:
> > >
> > >
> > > Let’s Focus!
> > >
> > >
> > > My hypothesis is this:
> > >
> > >   This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
> > > CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
> > > hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
> > Historically,
> > > whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
> > tend
> > > to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result
> we
> > > end up doing less than we could.
> > >
> > >
> > > My proposal to solve this:
> > >
> > >  Say “no”.
> > >
> > > More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
> > they
> > > are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and
> should
> > > be deferred to a later time.
> > >
> > > For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
> > >
> > >  - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
> > >  - Ship 1.3.0
> > >  - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
> > > Futon.Next.
> > >
> > > At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
> > > distracting us from the points above done.
> > > (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
> > >
> > > Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
> > > likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
> > > together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
> > > about at any one time.
> > >
> > > This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings,
> patches
> > > we request reviews & comments on.
> > >
> > > I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
> > > care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few
> things,
> > > we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
> > won’t
> > > pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going
> on
> > at
> > > the same time, some by different group members, some by the same
> people.
> > I
> > > also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
> > > discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
> > time,
> > > others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
> > won’t
> > > keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
> > >
> > > All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about
> the
> > > things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on
> how
> > > much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over
> time
> > > the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
> > the
> > > dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
> > >
> > > * * *
> > >
> > > In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant
> right
> > > now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
> > lot
> > > more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above,
> can
> > > do the same.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your time and attention!
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Jan
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > NS
> >
>



-- 
NS

Re: Focus

[Octavian Damiean <ma...@gmail.com>]

Quick question. Apparently I misunderstood something in the first meeting
because I was thinking that Futon.Next is such a if it's ready for 1.3 we
ship it if not then in 1.4.

I'm asking because Futon.Current can do everything necessary at the moment,
which makes Futon.Next a non-stopper in my opinion. I'm just asking, not
trying to discuss or propose anything.

On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> I think this is a great initiative Jan.
>
> I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I am
> working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
> telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
> happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.
>
> But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is unimportant,
> or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
> that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT LEVEL
> focus.
>
> And so, with that caveat out of the way...
>
> Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the wiki?
> We should document this.
>
> I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
> our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
> list of areas to focus on in the future.
>
> I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the current
> focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
> Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
> add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
> perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.
>
> A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
> might be a good thing to come out of this too.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
> On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
> >
> > DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I
> > want is find a way to make us all more productive.
> >
> > * * *
> >
> >
> > With that out of the way:
> >
> >
> > Let’s Focus!
> >
> >
> > My hypothesis is this:
> >
> >   This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
> > CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
> > hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up.
> Historically,
> > whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included)
> tend
> > to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we
> > end up doing less than we could.
> >
> >
> > My proposal to solve this:
> >
> >  Say “no”.
> >
> > More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while
> they
> > are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and should
> > be deferred to a later time.
> >
> > For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
> >
> >  - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
> >  - Ship 1.3.0
> >  - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
> > Futon.Next.
> >
> > At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
> > distracting us from the points above done.
> > (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
> >
> > Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
> > likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
> > together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
> > about at any one time.
> >
> > This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings, patches
> > we request reviews & comments on.
> >
> > I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
> > care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few things,
> > we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I
> won’t
> > pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going on
> at
> > the same time, some by different group members, some by the same people.
> I
> > also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
> > discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more
> time,
> > others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I
> won’t
> > keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
> >
> > All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about the
> > things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how
> > much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over time
> > the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to
> the
> > dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
> >
> > * * *
> >
> > In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right
> > now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a
> lot
> > more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above, can
> > do the same.
> >
> > Thanks for your time and attention!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Jan
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> NS
>

Re: Focus

[Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>]

I think this is a great initiative Jan.

I am sure there are a few people right now who are thinking "Hey, but I am
working on X, and Jan didn't mention X, so is X important? Or is Jan
telling me I shouldn't be working on X?" Well, I understand that. As it
happens, I am working on the docs, and Jan didn't mention them.

But I don't think the idea is that anything not on the list is unimportant,
or that if you're working on something else, then you should stop. Just
that we need to have a regularly updated list of our current PROJECT LEVEL
focus.

And so, with that caveat out of the way...

Jan, as this is your initiative, can I ask you to start a page on the wiki?
We should document this.

I think the wiki page should probably have three things on it. A list of
our current focus areas. An archived list of previous focus areas. And a
list of areas to focus on in the future.

I think we should also review this monthly. Each month, review the current
focus areas, see what has been done and what has not. Archive the list.
Create a new one for the current month. And decide on whether we want to
add any other items. This should be a dev-level decision making process,
perhaps in the first IRC meeting of the month.

A monthly email to both user and dev, along with general project status,
might be a good thing to come out of this too.

Thoughts?


On 6 November 2012 15:47, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I’m trying something new here. Please send any feedback you might have.
>
> DISCLAIMER: I won’t keep anyone working on or discussing anything. All I
> want is find a way to make us all more productive.
>
> * * *
>
>
> With that out of the way:
>
>
> Let’s Focus!
>
>
> My hypothesis is this:
>
>   This group, dev@, has a limited amount of time and attention to move
> CouchDB forward. We have so many important things to do that it is very
> hard for us to say “no” to any one thing that is brought up. Historically,
> whenever there is a surge of activity, we (myself definitely included) tend
> to bring up more issues than we can work on at a time and as a result we
> end up doing less than we could.
>
>
> My proposal to solve this:
>
>  Say “no”.
>
> More specifically, we need to learn to say “no” to things that, while they
> are definitely important, are not important enough “right now” and should
> be deferred to a later time.
>
> For example, currently I think our most important topics are:
>
>  - Get CORS and docs into shape that we can merge them to master/1.3.x
>  - Ship 1.3.0
>  - Help the Futon.Next folks out as much as we can to build & deliver
> Futon.Next.
>
> At the same time, there are many more discussions going on that are
> distracting us from the points above done.
> (This includes my Plugins Proposal, I am clearly guilty of this.)
>
> Note that the list above is a strong “in my opinion”, your shortlist is
> likely to differ and that’s great. We as a group need to figure out
> together what the things are that we care about *and* that we can care
> about at any one time.
>
> This includes things we discuss on dev@, in the weekly meetings, patches
> we request reviews & comments on.
>
> I strongly believe that when we can agree on a short list of things we
> care about, and get them done, and *then* move on to the next few things,
> we’ll get more accomplished than we do right now.
>
> * * *
>
> It would be illusionary to imagine a fully sequential workflow, so I won’t
> pretend we should try to achieve that, we’ll always have things going on at
> the same time, some by different group members, some by the same people. I
> also don’t suggest to add a layer of classical project management. Some
> discussions are broader (BigCouch merge, source reorg) and need more time,
> others should be resolved quickly. And to reiterate the disclaimer, I won’t
> keep anyone from working on or discussing anything at any time.
>
> All I suggest is that we, as a group, are a little more mindful about the
> things we can handle at any one point. This will change depending on how
> much time each of us can spend in a given week or month. I hope over time
> the list of things we can do at a time grows, as we add more members to the
> dev team (hello Futon.Next folks! :)
>
> * * *
>
> In practical terms, I’ll be asking the questions “is this relevant right
> now?” and “should this be on our short list of things to care about?” a lot
> more often, and I hope, given you agree with the broad strokes above, can
> do the same.
>
> Thanks for your time and attention!
>
> Cheers
> Jan
> --
>
>
>
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>
>
>


-- 
NS