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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org> on 1999/07/02 12:29:04 UTC
Re: Jetty Java WWW server.
Greg Wilkins wrote:
> The main question I have is how can Jetty contribute to Jakarta?
:)
I've answered to some of these questions several times for Java Apache
since once a project gets big enough, and its noosphere is well
appreciated, code and people keeps flowing in and this is, indeed, a
very nice thing.
A clear answer to your question is not available as default, but I'm
sure that if both parties are willing to cooperate in a friendly and
mutually valuable way, the whole thing will find its way to work out
right. The dynamics of open development are often amazingly
auto-organizing.
> The latest release of Jetty is 2.2.Beta4 which includes:
> + 100% Java
> + HTTP/1.1
> + Servlet API 2.1
> + GNUJSP
> + SSL support (not yet part of distribution, but working with it)
As James pointed out, HTTP/1.1 and SSL are the most important pieces
since everything else will be there in Tomcat.
My personal vision would be to "merge" your project into Tomcat
following Sun's model: your company may licence or "donate" the code to
the Jakarta project and you will be proposed as an active developer with
write access on the CVS module.
This would allow you to "patch" Tomcat with your code where we find this
appropriate to include the features where Jetty is ahead in respect of
Tomcat. This would allow you to reduce the effort on Jetty (if you wish)
or continue to develop it as a separate project (as you do now) using
Jakarta code.
It's up to you. I always suggest projects to merge because I see very
few reasons to have several open source projects covering the same
issues, expecially when they use each other code.
A few issues may be raised:
1) Apache License: all code donated to the Apache Group will be placed
under the apache license (note that this is also done for Sun-donated
code)
2) Development models: to work on the Jakarta project, everyone (even
Sun engineers) have to play by the rules covered by the voting
guidelines and project constitution of each Apache project.
If you don't have any problems with this (which also would protect you
and your code once you are under the Apache umbrella), I would suggest
you to wait for the Tomcat code to be available (James, any news on
this?) and then start working (on the tomcat mail list!) with us on how
to incorporate your code with tomcat.
Of course, the continuation of the other project in its current form
it's up to you and your users alone. BTW, as I see it, Tomcat and Jetty
seem to have a very nice overlapping that fits almost perfectly since
Tomcat is aimed to be a very light and portable servlet engine. Direct
HTTP support is already there. Moving to a complete embeddable web
server implementation sounds a nice thing to do to me.
> This leads to Jetty's major niche which is to be embedded in other Java
> applications (rather than embedding your application in a WWW server).
Exactly. Tomcat (and Jetty, AFAIK) don't try to overlap with the Apache
Web Server at all but cover up different issues.
> Is the Jakarta project itself after a java HTTP protocol server, or is
> it intending to be server neutral?
Both. Tomcat will probably follow both original JSDK and JServ 1.1-dev
design, allowing for pluggable protocol adapters (on the Java Apache
project we are very concerned about design patterns and object orienting
engineering). This will allow some interfaces to be exposed and others
to implement them for each protocol/API (for example, AJP for Apache
remote integration, Apache API, NSAPI and ISAPI for internal
integration, HTTP for standalone operation)
> It strikes me that a good modular
> Open source (perhaps public domain) java HTTP server is an ideal companion
> to a Servlet container and JSP engine!
As you see, our goals mainly overlap :)
> As there are already many Java HTTP servers out there, it strikes me as a good opportunity to
> use the high profile of Jakarta to combine at least some of these efforts?
Well, keep an eye on the fact that we at Java Apache already have
another codebase donated for such project (which is the PicoServer
project based on Nick Ferrier's code). But don't worry, the Tomcat
project will incorporate the best code out of each contribution and even
when all your code gets wiped out by others (it always happens!), your
credits will not. Never.
> I have no major issues with the possibility of Jetty code being
> contributed/merged/reused on the Jakarta project, even if that means
> a change of license and/or copyright.
Great.
> My main interest is to
> make sure that there is available to the development community
> a quality, small, fast, flexible and embeddable OpenSource server
> providing standards based servlet APIs.
All right. I see no problems in the future, then.
> So are there any components of Jetty that are of interest to the project?
As I see it HTTP/1.1 support and SSL hooks are very intersting. Please
note: Apache had to remove all the hooks for SSL because even some API
that exposes crypto is illegal to export. And being the Apache Group
legally based in the US, your code will not be incorporated.
But there are wise ways to go around this: the mod_ssl project is hosted
in europe but uses the Apache API (which do not deal with crypto stuff
explicitly). Something like this could be done for Tomcat.
> Are there any other ways that the projects could assist each other?
As I said, merging the interesting code would be ideal and if you want
to continue to actively collaborate on the code, you'll be more than
welcome.
> Are you already considering other HTTP servers in this role?
No for Jakarta, but yes, we were evaluating the same issue with JServ
and Nick Ferrier's code for PaperClips.
> Are any of you based in London (or Sydney later this year) and would like
> to chat about such things over a beer?
What about something closer to Italy? :)
BTW, James, what about a visit to your italian friends while you're in
Germany?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi A language that doesn't affect the way you
think about programming, is not worth knowing.
<st...@apache.org> Alan J. Perlis
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: What to do . . .
Posted by Chris <ch...@hamptons.com>.
Thank you kindly, James (esp for your promptness).
I remember James Duncan Davidson fondly from my days on the JSERV mailing
list, and I'm pleased as punch to see you're the Man (as the kids say) on
Jakarta.
Look forward to workin with ya!
- Chris
James Duncan Davidson wrote:
> > How does a guy like me get to work on a project like this?
>
> Easy -- jump in when the time is right.
>
> When the code comes out (fairly soon -- we're getting through the legal
> stuff right now), all you've got to do is pull it out of CVS and work on
> it. Anyone who starts making good active contributions will get CVS
> access into the repository. We'll need contributions in the way of code,
> documentation, qa (tests, yes Tomcat comes with a set of tests!), etc.
>
> We'll have more up shortly as to how we'll be organized, but it will be
> pretty much along the lines (not exactly, but fundamentally) of the
> current java apache organization -- http://java.apache.org
>
> --
> James Davidson
> <du...@eng.sun.com> http://java.sun.com/products/servlet
> <du...@x180.com> http://www.x180.com
> !try; do() PGP:0x7D776205
>
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Re: What to do . . .
Posted by James Duncan Davidson <du...@x180.com>.
> How does a guy like me get to work on a project like this?
Easy -- jump in when the time is right.
When the code comes out (fairly soon -- we're getting through the legal
stuff right now), all you've got to do is pull it out of CVS and work on
it. Anyone who starts making good active contributions will get CVS
access into the repository. We'll need contributions in the way of code,
documentation, qa (tests, yes Tomcat comes with a set of tests!), etc.
We'll have more up shortly as to how we'll be organized, but it will be
pretty much along the lines (not exactly, but fundamentally) of the
current java apache organization -- http://java.apache.org
--
James Davidson
<du...@eng.sun.com> http://java.sun.com/products/servlet
<du...@x180.com> http://www.x180.com
!try; do() PGP:0x7D776205
What to do . . .
Posted by Chris <ch...@hamptons.com>.
Soooooooo
How does a guy like me get to work on a project like this?
Re: Jetty Java WWW server.
Posted by James Duncan Davidson <du...@x180.com>.
> Are there any white papers, design docs, specs sheets on tomcat that
> are available before the source? Being freshly arrived on this list
> I'm finding it hard to visualize where you all see the boundaries of the
> various projects and packages.
Unfortunately, we've been working so hard on getting to this point..
There's no architectural overview ready just yet. We've got a person
working on this so hopefully by the time we go live with code, we'll
have some documentation other than the code itself -- at least from a
high level.
And remember -- everyone is freshly arrived here. There's a few hundred
people out there lurking, but everyone is waiting for the code to drop.
> Is the jakarta www page the only source of information, or should I
> be snuffling about the Jserv code/site for insights into potential
> directions of Jakarta/tomcat?
The java-apache lists are pretty interesting -- though the discussion
hasn't gone into any more detail than this.
> It looks like I'll have most of September and October available to work
> 2 or 3 days a week on Jetty3 and/or Jakarta/tomcat, but maybe take some
> time off from that for a trip to the continent for an impromptu open source
> java servlet "conference" would make it past the tax man?!?!?
Maybe we'll just have to do that.. :) I'm in around the 20th of
September. I'm not sure how that works into Oktoberfest.. :)
> PS. Release 2.2.0 of Jetty has just been posted to http://www.mortbay.com
> if any of you want to have a peek...
Congrats... I'll try to take a look sometime after the weekend (it's
Independence day around here -- fireworks and sunburns!).
--
James Davidson
<du...@eng.sun.com>
<du...@x180.com>
!try; do()
Re: Jetty Java WWW server.
Posted by Greg Wilkins <gr...@mortbay.com>.
James Duncan Davidson wrote:
> > you to wait for the Tomcat code to be available (James, any news on
> > this?) and then start working (on the tomcat mail list!) with us on how
> Still working. The best thing that I can say is right now, things are
> going fairly well wrt getting the license stuff worked out. My earlier
> "betting prediction" that I posted is still in effect.
Are there any white papers, design docs, specs sheets on tomcat that
are available before the source? Being freshly arrived on this list
I'm finding it hard to visualize where you all see the boundaries of the
various projects and packages.
Is the jakarta www page the only source of information, or should I
be snuffling about the Jserv code/site for insights into potential
directions of Jakarta/tomcat?
As for the Jetty questions - it does sound that Jetty could well have
something to contribute, if only experience. I think I'll lurk on the
list a while longer before making any proposals of how I see this going.
> > BTW, James, what about a visit to your italian friends while you're in
> > Germany?
> It's a good thought. By that point, I think I'm due some vacation.. :)
It looks like I'll have most of September and October available to work
2 or 3 days a week on Jetty3 and/or Jakarta/tomcat, but maybe take some
time off from that for a trip to the continent for an impromptu open source
java servlet "conference" would make it past the tax man?!?!?
cheers
PS. Release 2.2.0 of Jetty has just been posted to http://www.mortbay.com
if any of you want to have a peek...
--
Greg Wilkins<gr...@mortbay.com> GB Phone: +44-(0)171-4394045
Mort Bay Consulting Australia and UK. Mbl Phone: +44-(0)7775534369
http://www.mortbay.com AU Phone: +61-(0)299772395
Re: Jetty Java WWW server.
Posted by James Duncan Davidson <du...@x180.com>.
> you to wait for the Tomcat code to be available (James, any news on
> this?) and then start working (on the tomcat mail list!) with us on how
Still working. The best thing that I can say is right now, things are
going fairly well wrt getting the license stuff worked out. My earlier
"betting prediction" that I posted is still in effect.
> BTW, James, what about a visit to your italian friends while you're in
> Germany?
It's a good thought. By that point, I think I'm due some vacation.. :)
.duncan