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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> on 2011/11/17 11:42:25 UTC

[VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.

Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.

The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel

The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

Greetings, Marcel

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

Big +1

Carsten

2011/11/17 Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>



-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Alexander Broekhuis <a....@gmail.com>.

Great news, succes with this!

+1

2011/11/17 Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>

> +1
>
> Regards
> JB
>
>
> On 11/17/2011 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
>> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
>> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
>> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
>> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
>> new contributors and users.
>>
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready
>> and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board
>> resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator
>> list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/**
>> guides/graduation.html#**toplevel<http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel>
>>
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> Greetings, Marcel
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.**apache.org<ge...@incubator.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.**org<ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>
>


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet,

Alexander Broekhuis

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.

+1

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

+1

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42, Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl
> wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
> new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready
> and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board
> resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator
> list. The full process is described at
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>


-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Clement Escoffier <cl...@gmail.com>.

+1,

Regards,

Clement

On 17.11.2011, at 22:04, Felix Meschberger wrote:

> +1
> 
> Congratulations.
> 
> Regards
> Felix
> 
> Am 17.11.2011 um 11:42 schrieb Marcel Offermans:
> 
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>> 
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>> 
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>> 
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>> 
>> Greetings, Marcel
>> 
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Felix Meschberger <fm...@gmail.com>.

+1

Congratulations.

Regards
Felix

Am 17.11.2011 um 11:42 schrieb Marcel Offermans:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> 
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
> 
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Greetings, Marcel
>

[RESULT] [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.

It's time to call the vote on the "community graduation vote" for ACE. The results:

+1: Bertrand Delacretaz (***), Karl Pauls (***), Carsten Ziegeler (***), Felix Meschberger (**), Toni Menzel, Brian Topping, Clement Escoffier (**), Angelo van der Sijpt, <mv...@comcast.net>, Alexander Broekhuis, David Bosschaert, Benson Margulies (*), Chris A Mattmann (*), Alex Karasulu (*), Julien Vermillard (*), Alan D. Cabrera (*), Guillaume Nodet (*), Hadrian Zbarcea (*), Jean-Baptiste Onofré (*), Marcel Offermans (***)

There were no other votes.

* = IPMC
** = PPMC
*** IPMC + PPMC

The vote is succesful. Our next step will be to prepare a charter (see http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution). I will start writing a draft and post that on the list later today.

Greetings, Marcel

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.

+1 (binding)

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
> the full source.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>
>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>> the distribution directory.
>>
>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>> And the etc/ directory?
>>
>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>
>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>
>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>
>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>> to fix.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>
>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>
>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>> anywhere.
>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>> as I can tell.
>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>
>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>> - KEYS
>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>
>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>> files appear to be
>>>>
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>
>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>
>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>
>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>
>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>> each component.
>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Initially we add felix wanted to have a special place for releases so
we put our release tags into the releases dir. I did the same thing
for ace. If we want to change it we can debate that but until we have
a debate and consensus on a change I'm fine with explaining people
things over and over again.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Denis Koelewijn
<de...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The svn directory tags/ is there to place 'tags' (duh ;-) on specific
> revisions in the repository. These tags can be anything, including the
> identification of a release, release candidates, or specific bug-fixes.
> IMHO the de-facto way of working with svn is to use tags/ for all these
> kind naming of revision. It is completely possible to do it differently,
> with the (small) penalty that this devition from the norm needs to
> explained over and over, because people are used to the de-facto way of
> working.
>
> Regards,
>
> Denis
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:49, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> and is what felix has been doing all along as we didn't like the term
>> tags for releases :-)
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yeah, the fact that the tree containing the tags is named "releases"
>> > instead of "tags" just does not follow svn usual practices, but that's
>> not
>> > a problem in itself.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:45, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Not sure what you are talking about. We do have takes for the
>> >> artifacts in svn. They are in the releases dir. We just don't have a
>> >> tag for the trunk at that point but only for the individual
>> >> subprojects just like felix is doing it as well (and sling iirc).
>> >>
>> >> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/
>> >>
>> >> regards,
>> >>
>> >> Karl
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> >> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> > (moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> >> >> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> >> >> $ wget
>> >>
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>> >> >> $ jar -xf
>> org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> >> >> $ wget
>> >>
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> >> >> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> >> >> $ mvn clean install
>> >> >
>> >> > I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
>> >> > much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
>> >> > expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
>> >> > will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
>> >> > mistake.
>> >> >
>> >> > What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?
>> >> >
>> >> > Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
>> >> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/
>> >> >
>> >> > -Bertrand
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Karl Pauls
>> >> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> >> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> >> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ------------------------
>> > Guillaume Nodet
>> > ------------------------
>> > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> > ------------------------
>> > Open Source SOA
>> > http://fusesource.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Denis Koelewijn <de...@gmail.com>.

The svn directory tags/ is there to place 'tags' (duh ;-) on specific
revisions in the repository. These tags can be anything, including the
identification of a release, release candidates, or specific bug-fixes.
IMHO the de-facto way of working with svn is to use tags/ for all these
kind naming of revision. It is completely possible to do it differently,
with the (small) penalty that this devition from the norm needs to
explained over and over, because people are used to the de-facto way of
working.

Regards,

Denis

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:49, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:

> and is what felix has been doing all along as we didn't like the term
> tags for releases :-)
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, the fact that the tree containing the tags is named "releases"
> > instead of "tags" just does not follow svn usual practices, but that's
> not
> > a problem in itself.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:45, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Not sure what you are talking about. We do have takes for the
> >> artifacts in svn. They are in the releases dir. We just don't have a
> >> tag for the trunk at that point but only for the individual
> >> subprojects just like felix is doing it as well (and sling iirc).
> >>
> >> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> Karl
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> >> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > (moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> >> >> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
> >> >> $ wget
> >>
> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
> >> >> $ jar -xf
> org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
> >> >> $ wget
> >>
> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
> >> >> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
> >> >> $ mvn clean install
> >> >
> >> > I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
> >> > much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
> >> > expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
> >> > will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
> >> > mistake.
> >> >
> >> > What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?
> >> >
> >> > Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
> >> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/
> >> >
> >> > -Bertrand
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Karl Pauls
> >> karlpauls@gmail.com
> >> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> >> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ------------------------
> > Guillaume Nodet
> > ------------------------
> > Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> > ------------------------
> > Open Source SOA
> > http://fusesource.com
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

and is what felix has been doing all along as we didn't like the term
tags for releases :-)

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, the fact that the tree containing the tags is named "releases"
> instead of "tags" just does not follow svn usual practices, but that's not
> a problem in itself.
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:45, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Not sure what you are talking about. We do have takes for the
>> artifacts in svn. They are in the releases dir. We just don't have a
>> tag for the trunk at that point but only for the individual
>> subprojects just like felix is doing it as well (and sling iirc).
>>
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
>> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > (moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> >> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> >> $ wget
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>> >> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> >> $ wget
>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> >> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> >> $ mvn clean install
>> >
>> > I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
>> > much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
>> > expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
>> > will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
>> > mistake.
>> >
>> > What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?
>> >
>> > Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
>> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/
>> >
>> > -Bertrand
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

Yeah, the fact that the tree containing the tags is named "releases"
instead of "tags" just does not follow svn usual practices, but that's not
a problem in itself.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 15:45, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Not sure what you are talking about. We do have takes for the
> artifacts in svn. They are in the releases dir. We just don't have a
> tag for the trunk at that point but only for the individual
> subprojects just like felix is doing it as well (and sling iirc).
>
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> > (moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> >> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
> >> $ wget
> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
> >> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
> >> $ wget
> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
> >> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
> >> $ mvn clean install
> >
> > I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
> > much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
> > expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
> > will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
> > mistake.
> >
> > What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?
> >
> > Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
> > http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>



-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Not sure what you are talking about. We do have takes for the
artifacts in svn. They are in the releases dir. We just don't have a
tag for the trunk at that point but only for the individual
subprojects just like felix is doing it as well (and sling iirc).

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> (moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> $ mvn clean install
>
> I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
> much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
> expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
> will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
> mistake.
>
> What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?
>
> Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/
>
> -Bertrand
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

(moving thread here from general@incubator.a.o)

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
> $ mvn clean install

I agree with others that having an svn tag for that release would be
much more convenient, and it's the expected way. IIRC you're only
expected to keep the latest release under /dist, so the above URLs
will change over time, and it's too easy to delete those files by
mistake.

What prevents you from creating svn tags when releasing bundles?

Sling does release bundles individually, and we do have svn tags under
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/sling/tags/

-Bertrand

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.

Sorry my mistake.

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:27 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
> JB,
>
> please, lets move this to the ace-dev list.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>  wrote:
>> Hi Karl,
>>
>> we can simply need to revert the changes just before the 0.8.0-incubator
>> release.
>> When upgrading the ACE build to use Maven, firstly, we used the tags scm
>> with Maven sub-modules.
>> So I'm quite sure that reverting just before the 0.8.0-incubator, I can
>> prepare that for the next ACE release.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
>>>
>>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>>
>>> The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
>>> release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
>>> config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
>>> move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
>>> into a separate thread unless you disagree.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>>>> $ wget
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>>>
>>>> s/source/sources/
>>>>
>>>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>>>> $ wget
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>>
>>>> Not exactly trivial compared with
>>>>
>>>> $ svn co
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> -- or --
>>>> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
>>>> (if it existed)
>>>> and then
>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>>
>>>> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
>>>> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
>>>> some unit tests in SVN.
>>>>
>>>> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source
>>>> release?
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
>>>> archives of the tags for each component.
>>>> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
>>>> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
>>>> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
>>>> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
>>>> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
>>>> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
>>>> appropriate source/ archive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder<an...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    ...ant
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The
>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just
>>>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README)
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be
>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel
>>>>>>>>>> Offermans<ma...@luminis.nl>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating
>>>>>>>>>>> from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
>>>>>>>>>>> committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in
>>>>>>>>>>> May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
>>>>>>>>>>> ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to
>>>>>>>>>>> attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE
>>>>>>>>>>> is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>>>>>>>>>>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>>>>>>>>>>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the
>>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as
>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/
>>>>>>>>>> directories,
>>>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only
>>>>>>>>>> non-Maven
>>>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every
>>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.

Sorry my mistake.

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:27 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
> JB,
>
> please, lets move this to the ace-dev list.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré<jb...@nanthrax.net>  wrote:
>> Hi Karl,
>>
>> we can simply need to revert the changes just before the 0.8.0-incubator
>> release.
>> When upgrading the ACE build to use Maven, firstly, we used the tags scm
>> with Maven sub-modules.
>> So I'm quite sure that reverting just before the 0.8.0-incubator, I can
>> prepare that for the next ACE release.
>>
>> Regards
>> JB
>>
>> On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
>>>
>>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>>
>>> The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
>>> release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
>>> config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
>>> move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
>>> into a separate thread unless you disagree.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>>>> $ wget
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>>>
>>>> s/source/sources/
>>>>
>>>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>>>> $ wget
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>>
>>>> =========================
>>>>
>>>> Not exactly trivial compared with
>>>>
>>>> $ svn co
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> -- or --
>>>> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
>>>> (if it existed)
>>>> and then
>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>>
>>>> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
>>>> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
>>>> some unit tests in SVN.
>>>>
>>>> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source
>>>> release?
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
>>>> archives of the tags for each component.
>>>> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
>>>> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
>>>> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
>>>> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
>>>> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
>>>> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
>>>> appropriate source/ archive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder<an...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    ...ant
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The
>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just
>>>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README)
>>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be
>>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel
>>>>>>>>>> Offermans<ma...@luminis.nl>    wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating
>>>>>>>>>>> from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
>>>>>>>>>>> committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in
>>>>>>>>>>> May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
>>>>>>>>>>> ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to
>>>>>>>>>>> attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE
>>>>>>>>>>> is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>>>>>>>>>>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>>>>>>>>>>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the
>>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as
>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/
>>>>>>>>>> directories,
>>>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only
>>>>>>>>>> non-Maven
>>>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every
>>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
>> jbonofre@apache.org
>> http://blog.nanthrax.net
>> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>

-- 
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

JB,

please, lets move this to the ace-dev list.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net> wrote:
> Hi Karl,
>
> we can simply need to revert the changes just before the 0.8.0-incubator
> release.
> When upgrading the ACE build to use Maven, firstly, we used the tags scm
> with Maven sub-modules.
> So I'm quite sure that reverting just before the 0.8.0-incubator, I can
> prepare that for the next ACE release.
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
>>
>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>
>> The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
>> release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
>> config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
>> move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
>> into a separate thread unless you disagree.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>>> $ wget
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>>
>>> s/source/sources/
>>>
>>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>>> $ wget
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>
>>> =========================
>>>
>>> Not exactly trivial compared with
>>>
>>> $ svn co
>>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>> -- or --
>>> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
>>> (if it existed)
>>> and then
>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>
>>> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
>>> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
>>> some unit tests in SVN.
>>>
>>> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source
>>> release?
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
>>> archives of the tags for each component.
>>> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
>>> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
>>> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
>>> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
>>> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
>>> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
>>> appropriate source/ archive.
>>>
>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder<an...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>>
>>>>>   ...ant
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The
>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just
>>>>>>>> per
>>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README)
>>>>>>> ?
>>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be
>>>>>>>> easy
>>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel
>>>>>>>>> Offermans<ma...@luminis.nl>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating
>>>>>>>>>> from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
>>>>>>>>>> committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in
>>>>>>>>>> May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
>>>>>>>>>> ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to
>>>>>>>>>> attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE
>>>>>>>>>> is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>>>>>>>>>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>>>>>>>>>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>>>>>>>>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the
>>>>>>>>> project
>>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as
>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/
>>>>>>>>> directories,
>>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only
>>>>>>>>> non-Maven
>>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every
>>>>>>>>> release
>>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Jean-Baptiste Onofré
> jbonofre@apache.org
> http://blog.nanthrax.net
> Talend - http://www.talend.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.

Hi Karl,

we can simply need to revert the changes just before the 0.8.0-incubator 
release.
When upgrading the ACE build to use Maven, firstly, we used the tags scm 
with Maven sub-modules.
So I'm quite sure that reverting just before the 0.8.0-incubator, I can 
prepare that for the next ACE release.

Regards
JB

On 11/17/2011 04:14 PM, Karl Pauls wrote:
> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
> and why this has to be on general@.
>
> The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
> release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
> config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
> move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
> into a separate thread unless you disagree.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>
>> s/source/sources/
>>
>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> Not exactly trivial compared with
>>
>> $ svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> -- or --
>> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
>> (if it existed)
>> and then
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
>> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
>> some unit tests in SVN.
>>
>> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?
>>
>> ==
>>
>> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
>> archives of the tags for each component.
>> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
>> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
>> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
>> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
>> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
>> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
>> appropriate source/ archive.
>>
>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder<an...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>
>>>>    ...ant
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb<se...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans<ma...@luminis.nl>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>

-- 
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jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

2011/11/17 Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>:
> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
> and why this has to be on general@.
>
> The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
> release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
> config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
> move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
> into a separate thread unless you disagree.
>

Exactly and I fail to see what this all has to do with the graduation vote.

Carsten

> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>
>> s/source/sources/
>>
>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> =========================
>>
>> Not exactly trivial compared with
>>
>> $ svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> -- or --
>> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
>> (if it existed)
>> and then
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
>> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
>> some unit tests in SVN.
>>
>> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?
>>
>> ==
>>
>> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
>> archives of the tags for each component.
>> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
>> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
>> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
>> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
>> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
>> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
>> appropriate source/ archive.
>>
>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>
>>>>   ...ant
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:56 PM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>>>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>>>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>>>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>>>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
>>> poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
>>> review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
>>> source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
>>> release would have actually tried to build any of the source.
>>
>> I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
>> haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
>> that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
>> before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?
>>
>
> I'm not arguing anything yet. Some valid comments and questions were
> made in the vote thread, you asked why they were happening here and i
> tried to answer that. The Incubator people should have an opportunity
> to discuss a graduation, perhaps some of that might be better on a
> graduation discussion thread but there wasn't one of those before the
> vote.
>
> The release does look a bit dubious to me.

Well, I understand that part and I agree that this is worthwhile to
discuss. I'm just trying to get this sorted-out into something that we
can discuss on the incubator level i.e., based on incubator
requirements. In that sense, what are dubious points with the release
that we as incubator pmc overlooked when voting on it?

regards,

Karl

p.s.: Regarding the vote, let me make clear (in case it got missed):
marcel did cc general@ on the community vote on whether we want to ask
for graduation.This is not yet the actual incubator vote. Obviously,
we better catch problems now so I think its good we have this
discussion.

>   ...ant
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
>



-- 
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karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.

Hello Ant,

On Nov 17, 2011, at 16:56 PM, ant elder wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>>>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>>>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>>>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>>>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
>>> poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
>>> review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
>>> source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
>>> release would have actually tried to build any of the source.
>> 
>> I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
>> haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
>> that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
>> before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?
> 
> I'm not arguing anything yet. Some valid comments and questions were
> made in the vote thread, you asked why they were happening here and i
> tried to answer that. The Incubator people should have an opportunity
> to discuss a graduation, perhaps some of that might be better on a
> graduation discussion thread but there wasn't one of those before the
> vote.

Starting with that last remark, the vote that was started earlier today is the "Community Graduation Vote" where we as the ACE community vote to confirm that we are ready and willing to start the graduation process (as explained here http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-community-vote). Before that, on the ACE list, and in the last board report, we already expressed that we feel we're ready to graduate. Whilst I don't mind adding a step before this one in the graduation guide, I am not aware of skipping a step in the process.

> The release does look a bit dubious to me.

Point taken, we appreciate all the feedback and will take that into account when doing the next release.

Greetings, Marcel

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>>
>>
>> I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
>> poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
>> review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
>> source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
>> release would have actually tried to build any of the source.
>
> I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
> haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
> that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
> before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?
>

I'm not arguing anything yet. Some valid comments and questions were
made in the vote thread, you asked why they were happening here and i
tried to answer that. The Incubator people should have an opportunity
to discuss a graduation, perhaps some of that might be better on a
graduation discussion thread but there wasn't one of those before the
vote.

The release does look a bit dubious to me.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:38 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
>> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
>> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
>> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
>> and why this has to be on general@.
>>
>
> I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
> poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
> review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
> source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
> release would have actually tried to build any of the source.

I guess the point is: are you arguing that the release should not
haven been accepted by the incubator in the first place on the grounds
that you find it hard to build and hence, you want to see a new one
before the we can vote on approaching the incubator for a graduation?

If yes, lets have that debate. If no, lets move this to a new thread
on the ace-dev list.

regards,

Karl

>   ...ant
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
> (and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
> configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
> confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
> and why this has to be on general@.
>

I think why its come up here now is because part of judging if a
poddling is ready to graduate is if they understand how to make and
review ASF releases properly. And with whats be said here and how the
source has to be built i'm wondering if anyone who voted +1 for the
release would have actually tried to build any of the source.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Again, I'm not against doing things differently for future release
(and the reason this release looks like it does is because that is
configured like this in the apache-parent iirc). However, I'm still
confused what all of this has to do with the graduation proposal vote
and why this has to be on general@.

The release vote has passed a while ago and I don't see that the
release is invalid because we don't use a certain svn layout or maven
config. The source is in dist and the tags are in svn. I suggest we
move discussion about future release layouts to the ace-dev list and
into a separate thread unless you disagree.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:09 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>
> s/source/sources/
>
>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> $ mvn clean install
>
> =========================
>
> Not exactly trivial compared with
>
> $ svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> -- or --
> $ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
> (if it existed)
> and then
> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> $ mvn clean install
>
> There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
> They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
> some unit tests in SVN.
>
> Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?
>
> ==
>
> This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
> archives of the tags for each component.
> I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
> useful for non-Maven downloads.
>
> ==
>
> To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
> creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
> The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
> The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
> The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
> appropriate source/ archive.
>
>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>
>>>   ...ant
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>> the full source.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>
>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 14:07, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar

s/source/sources/

> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
> $ mvn clean install

=========================

Not exactly trivial compared with

$ svn co http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
-- or --
$ unzip org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.zip
(if it existed)
and then
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ mvn clean install

There's another (bigger) problem with the existing -sources.jar files.
They don't contain any unit tests, as far as I can tell, yet there are
some unit tests in SVN.

Surely the unit tests should be distributed as part of the source release?

==

This is quite easy to fix, just (vote on and) release zip/tar.gz
archives of the tags for each component.
I would drop the -sources.jar files from /dist as they aren't all that
useful for non-Maven downloads.

==

To make it easier to navigate the dist/ directory, may I suggest
creating binaries/ and source/ folders?
The source/ folder would contain all the current source zips/tgz archives
The binaries folders would contain binary jars and javadoc jars
The *.pom files would be removed, as the pom.xml files would be in the
appropriate source/ archive.


> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>
>>   ...ant
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>> the full source.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>
>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>
>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>
>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>
>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>
>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 21 November 2011 01:56, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
> to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
> modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
> not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
> actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
> had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
> those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
> mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
> another release like this before you graduate?

+1, well put.

>  ...ant
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>
>>>   ...ant
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>> the full source.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>
>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marvin Humphrey <ma...@rectangular.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 05:11:37PM +0000, ant elder wrote:
> I now wonder what is the point of the source release at all, other than IDE
> debugging or reading APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN
> tag.

I recall some very lengthy threads in 2007-2009 regarding whether our source
code repositories constitute a "distribution".  Our first line of defense is
that they are meant only for developers.

If an ASF project releases a product without accompanying full source, meaning
that users are forced to go to the repository to get the source code, that
weakens the legal protections upon which we all depend, no?

Marvin Humphrey

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 21 November 2011 15:38, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
>> to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
>> module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
>> are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
>> the previous release?
>
> It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
> contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
> download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
> make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
> you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
> and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
> first as well.

... and rename it.

Also the jars also don't include any unit tests.

> regards,
>
> Karl
>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>
>>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>>> the
>>>> >>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>>> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>>> >>>> individually buildable.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>>> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>>> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>>> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>>>> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>>> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>>> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>>> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>>> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>>> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>>> >>> very least they're probably going to want
>>>> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>>> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>>>> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>>> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>>> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>>> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>>> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>>> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>>> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>>> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>>>> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
>>>> single
>>>> >> product that must be built.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
>>>> not
>>>> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
>>>> end
>>>> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>>> that,
>>>> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
>>>> > was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
>>>> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
>>>> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
>>>> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
>>>> > being released.
>>>>
>>>> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
>>>> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
>>>> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
>>>> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
>>>> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
>>>> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
>>>noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
>>>this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
>>>natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
>>>products.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
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>

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> >From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> >To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>; "general@incubator.apache.org" <
> general@incubator.apache.org>
> >Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
> >Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> >
> >
> >"Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
> >for a release; so long as the artifacts can
> >be built from the distributed source files
> >using a repeatable and documented process you
> >are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
> >an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
> >appearon the surface to be contradicting
> >what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
> >
> >("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
> >tho.)
> >
> >In any case, if you can make building from
> >source more convenient for end-users, that
> >would certainly count as an improvement.
> >But holding up graduation until that is
> >
> >actually done makes zero sense to me.
>

Ditto.

--Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

2011/11/21 Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>:

>
> This last paragraph is an accurate description of how we setup ACE. It is built out of components that are assembled in different ways at runtime (using OSGi). The components themselves embed enough metadata to ensure that (even without access to the sourcecode or documentation) they can be assembled succesfully. Like other modular projects within Apache, it is setup so we can easily release individual components.

And the idea is once you have a set of modules released for the first
time, you just release the module which you think is ready to go.
Picking up the analogy with Maven, the first Maven release required
not only the core but all plugins to be released (they did it
differently than ACE but that's not the point). Once Maven was out
with all its core plugins, just new plugins were released from time to
time, or existing one were updated etc.

Regards
Carsten

>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>
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>



-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.

On Nov 21, 2011, at 18:28 PM, William A. Rowe Jr. wrote:
> On 11/21/2011 11:11 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>> Speaking wearing a hat:
>> 
>> There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
>> choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
>> is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
>> want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
>> whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
>> inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
>> the source packages.
> 
> If a project is creating 400 discrete "releases", this sounds to me
> like an umbrella project.  Consider the ability to "announce" that
> a new release has occurred, and the frequency with which those would
> be broadcast.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with a release model which provides for updated
> components within a much larger project, on a faster release cycle,
> but clear documentation of which have been updated and which components
> are still at their older revision that was previously approved.

This last paragraph is an accurate description of how we setup ACE. It is built out of components that are assembled in different ways at runtime (using OSGi). The components themselves embed enough metadata to ensure that (even without access to the sourcecode or documentation) they can be assembled succesfully. Like other modular projects within Apache, it is setup so we can easily release individual components.

Greetings, Marcel


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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "William A. Rowe Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.

On 11/21/2011 11:11 AM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> Speaking wearing a hat:
>
> There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
> choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
> is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
> want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
> whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
> inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
> the source packages.

If a project is creating 400 discrete "releases", this sounds to me
like an umbrella project.  Consider the ability to "announce" that
a new release has occurred, and the frequency with which those would
be broadcast.

There's nothing wrong with a release model which provides for updated
components within a much larger project, on a faster release cycle,
but clear documentation of which have been updated and which components
are still at their older revision that was previously approved.

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.

Speaking wearing a hat:

There is no requirement for monolithic releases. The project can
choose whatever units it likes to release, so long as each one of them
is fully buildable from the materials voted on in the release. If they
want to hold one vote on 400 of them, well, it casts some doubt on
whether the voters actually tried them all, but then again many TLPs
inspire doubt in my mind as to whether voters are actually testing all
the source packages.



On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:52 AM,  <da...@apache.org> wrote:
> Totally agree.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Bosschaert
>
> On 21 November 2011 16:32, Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I still think that the release is a proper release - as Karl explained
>> we could have done "better" source releases per module etc., but there
>> is nothing fundamentally wrong.
>> I don't think that these issues should block the project from graduation either.
>>
>> Carsten
>> --
>> Carsten Ziegeler
>> cziegeler@apache.org
>>
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>>
>>
>
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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by da...@apache.org.

Totally agree.

Best regards,

David Bosschaert

On 21 November 2011 16:32, Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
> I still think that the release is a proper release - as Karl explained
> we could have done "better" source releases per module etc., but there
> is nothing fundamentally wrong.
> I don't think that these issues should block the project from graduation either.
>
> Carsten
> --
> Carsten Ziegeler
> cziegeler@apache.org
>
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>

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

I still think that the release is a proper release - as Karl explained
we could have done "better" source releases per module etc., but there
is nothing fundamentally wrong.
I don't think that these issues should block the project from graduation either.

Carsten
-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On the other hand, where have we been all this time? They've shipped
> as many releases as they've shipped, and gotten votes from this PMC,
> and now, at the time of the graduation vote, all this produces a ton
> of email?
>

I agree with that point so for me at least I'll stop replying on this
thread and continue on the board@ source thread or start other ones
here on general@.

   ...ant

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 12:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
> find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says "All
> releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
> changes to the software being released." if no unit tests are included
> in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
> make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
> of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
> APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
> the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
> theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
> good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
> any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?

I didn't say that I was happy about the missing tests or the state of
svn or anything else, just that there's no requirement that a TLP make
monolithic releases.

This is kind of an extreme case. I think that Joe and I are thinking
about Maven: lots of little plugin modules, no monolithic release at
all. On the other hand, no vote involving all of them all at once.

If ACE's target model looks like maven (many components releasing on
decoupled schedules), then the requirement is that the process of
releasing each component is conformant.

If ACE's target model is to release a giant school of fish all at once
every time, I do share some concern.

On the other hand, where have we been all this time? They've shipped
as many releases as they've shipped, and gotten votes from this PMC,
and now, at the time of the graduation vote, all this produces a ton
of email?

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.

Please, let's not try to redefine the notion of an "open source release".
The fact that you personally don't give a shit about the distribution
of sources outside subversion doesn't mean the rest of the world feels
as you do about it.



----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 12:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> 
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>  That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot 
> but I've
>>  never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
>>  checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
>>  said.
>>  I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain 
> kind of
>>  projects imho..
>> 
>> 
> Plus if I am going to make a bug fix or add a feature that I intend to
> contribute back I will do it as a diff patch which I generate from version
> control.
> 
> So having the sources in a release is worthless for me. Knowing the tag is
> what I need to work the source, produce a patch and submit that back to the
> community.
> 
> Regards,
> Alex
> 

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Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:26 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot but I've
> never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
> checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
> said.
> I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain kind of
> projects imho..
>
>
Plus if I am going to make a bug fix or add a feature that I intend to
contribute back I will do it as a diff patch which I generate from version
control.

So having the sources in a release is worthless for me. Knowing the tag is
what I need to work the source, produce a patch and submit that back to the
community.

Regards,
Alex

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

That's really a good question.   I'm using apache projects a lot but I've
never downloaded a single source release since ages, mostly using svn to
checkout / build, or maven source jars for debugging within the ide as you
said.
I know it's a requirement, but it's not very useful for certain kind of
projects imho..


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 18:11, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
> find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says "All
> releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
> changes to the software being released." if no unit tests are included
> in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
> make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
> of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
> APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
> the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
> theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
> good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
> any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?
>
>   ...ant
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> > Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
> > httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
> > a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: sebb <se...@gmail.com>
> >> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> >> Cc:
> >> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> >>
> >> On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  ----- Forwarded Message -----
> >>>> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> >>>> To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>;
> >> "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
> >>>> for a release; so long as the artifacts can
> >>>> be built from the distributed source files
> >>>> using a repeatable and documented process you
> >>>> are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
> >>>> an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
> >>>> appearon the surface to be contradicting
> >>>> what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
> >>>>
> >>>> ("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
> >>>> tho.)
> >>
> >> That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
> >> source jars as far as I can tell.
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> In any case, if you can make building from
> >>>> source more convenient for end-users, that
> >>>> would certainly count as an improvement.
> >>>> But holding up graduation until that is
> >>>>
> >>>> actually done makes zero sense to me.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>  From: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer
> >> <jo...@yahoo.com>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer
> >> <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>  I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
> >>>>>>  to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
> >>>>>>  module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
> >>>>>>  are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
> >>>>>>  the previous release?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It has been argued that they are hard to build because they
> >> don't
> >>>>> contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
> >>>>> download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
> >>>>> make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
> >>>>> you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into
> >> it,
> >>>>> and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
> >>>>> first as
> >>>  well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Karl
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>  From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls
> >> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder
> >> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall
> >> <he...@ungoverned.org>
> >>>>>>>>  wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl
> >> Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant
> >> elder<an...@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>   wrote:
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this
> >> release demonstrates that the poddling
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>> has an understanding of making or
> >> reviewing ASF releases and thats
> >>>>>>>>  the
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  point of requiring releases during incubation.
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> So you want us to do a new release?
> >> Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> new release which has the source
> >> distribution configured. That was a
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes
> >> the bundles not easily
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> individually buildable.
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> However, we still will not have a
> >> combined source release as we want
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> to be able to release our bundles
> >> individually. Is that the resolution
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a
> >> micro release with the source
> >>>>>>>>  >>>> distribution configured on a per
> >> artifact level?
> >>>>>>>>  >>>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>> I agree the requirement for
> >>>  a single source release doesn't seem
> >>>>>>>>  >>> totally clear, I've said I think you
> >> should have one and so has sebb,
> >>>>>>>>  >>> it would be good to hear what other
> >> Incubator PMC people think. I
> >>>>>>>>  >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
> >>>>>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the
> >> releases are how users get hold
> >>>>>>>>  >>> of that source. If a user is going to do
> >> development with the released
> >>>>>>>>  >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to
> >> be able to do very much useful
> >>>>>>>>  >>> with just single things like
> >> org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
> >>>>>>>>  >>> very least they're probably going to
> >> want
> >>>>>>>>  >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but
> >> likely there is a big network of
> >>>>>>>>  >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
> >>>  doing most non-trivial ACE
> >>>>>>>>  >>> development is going to want. One source
> >> distribution makes this easy,
> >>>>>>>>  >>> making them have to download them all
> >> separately isn't particularly
> >>>>>>>>  >>> practical. That
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
> >>>>>>>>  >>> is structured so the ASF committers can
> >> work with them as one single
> >>>>>>>>  >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats
> >> true.
> >>>>>>>>  >>>
> >>>>>>>>  >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable
> >> source for each jar how are
> >>>>>>>>  >>> people really going to verify that the
> >> release is actually buildable
> >>>>>>>>  >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source
> >> when reviewing and voting
> >>>>>>>>  >>> on release votes? No one reviewing
> >>>  is really likely to download 60
> >>>>>>>>  >>> separate distros and build them all one by
> >> one are they?
> >>>>>>>>  >>
> >>>>>>>>  >> I disagree. There seems to be some
> >> misunderstanding that there is one
> >>>>>>>>  single
> >>>>>>>>  >> product that must be built.
> >>>>>>>>  >>
> >>>>>>>>  >> When you develop independently evolving
> >> modules, "big bang" releases do
> >>>>>>>>  not
> >>>>>>>>  >> make sense. Each module has its own release
> >> cycle. Occasionally you may
> >>>>>>>>  end
> >>>>>>>>  >> up creating some sort of
> >> "distribution" out of the modules and release
> >>>>>>>>  that,
> >>>>>>>>  >> but that is just one potential distribution.
> >>>>>>>>  >>
> >>>>>>>>  >
> >>>>>>>>  > I agree thats an approach used and works in many
> >> projects but if that
> >>>>>>>>  > was really the case _here_  then surely the
> >>>  SVN would be structured so
> >>>>>>>>  > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders
> >> for each module,
> >>>>>>>>  > there would have been more releases than just the
> >> single 0.8.0
> >>>>>>>>  > release, and there would be separate release votes
> >> for each module
> >>>>>>>>  > being released.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>  We have a tag per module and that is enough.
> >> Furthermore, we do
> >>>>>>>>  combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we
> >> want to release
> >>>>>>>>  them at the same time) in one vote as it would
> >> otherwise create a lot
> >>>>>>>>  of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up
> >> some of the other
> >>>>>>>>  OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of
> >> their releases).
> >>>>>>>>  The only thing we missed was the source distributions
> >> per artifact.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a
> >> failure. Let it
> >>>  be
> >>>>>>> noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's
> >> no reason to hold
> >>>>>>> this podling back because of some minor release
> >> inconsistencies which are
> >>>>>>> natural as we shift from monolithic products to component
> >> based OSGi
> >>>>>>> products.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>> Alex
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Karl Pauls
> >>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> >>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> >>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >>>  For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.

Gosh. Well perhaps its me that needs to go back to school then. But i
find this most unexpected. The ASF FAQ on what is a release says "All
releases are in the form of the source materials needed to make
changes to the software being released." if no unit tests are included
in the source release can anyone seriously be expected to be able to
make non-trivial changes to the source? I now wonder what is the point
of the source release at all, other than IDE debugging or reading
APIs, for real development you'd ave to get the SVN tag. And there is
the how to vote on the release artifacts too, other than checking
theres no compile errors how do release reviewers know the release is
good, or with 60 something modules to manually build is there really
any expectation that anyone other than the RM even attempts a build?

   ...ant


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
> httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
> a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: sebb <se...@gmail.com>
>> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>
>> On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>>> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>> To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>;
>> "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
>>>> for a release; so long as the artifacts can
>>>> be built from the distributed source files
>>>> using a repeatable and documented process you
>>>> are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
>>>> an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
>>>> appearon the surface to be contradicting
>>>> what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
>>>>
>>>> ("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
>>>> tho.)
>>
>> That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
>> source jars as far as I can tell.
>>
>>>>
>>>> In any case, if you can make building from
>>>> source more convenient for end-users, that
>>>> would certainly count as an improvement.
>>>> But holding up graduation until that is
>>>>
>>>> actually done makes zero sense to me.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>  From: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer
>> <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer
>> <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>  I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
>>>>>>  to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
>>>>>>  module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
>>>>>>  are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
>>>>>>  the previous release?
>>>>>
>>>>> It has been argued that they are hard to build because they
>> don't
>>>>> contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
>>>>> download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
>>>>> make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
>>>>> you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into
>> it,
>>>>> and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
>>>>> first as
>>>  well.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>  From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls
>> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder
>> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>  > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall
>> <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>  >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>>  >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl
>> Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>>  >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant
>> elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>>>  >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this
>> release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>>>>>  >>>>> has an understanding of making or
>> reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>>  >>>> So you want us to do a new release?
>> Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>>>>>>  >>>> new release which has the source
>> distribution configured. That was a
>>>>>>>>  >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes
>> the bundles not easily
>>>>>>>>  >>>> individually buildable.
>>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>>  >>>> However, we still will not have a
>> combined source release as we want
>>>>>>>>  >>>> to be able to release our bundles
>> individually. Is that the resolution
>>>>>>>>  >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a
>> micro release with the source
>>>>>>>>  >>>> distribution configured on a per
>> artifact level?
>>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>>  >>> I agree the requirement for
>>>  a single source release doesn't seem
>>>>>>>>  >>> totally clear, I've said I think you
>> should have one and so has sebb,
>>>>>>>>  >>> it would be good to hear what other
>> Incubator PMC people think. I
>>>>>>>>  >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>>  >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the
>> releases are how users get hold
>>>>>>>>  >>> of that source. If a user is going to do
>> development with the released
>>>>>>>>  >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to
>> be able to do very much useful
>>>>>>>>  >>> with just single things like
>> org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>>>>>>>  >>> very least they're probably going to
>> want
>>>>>>>>  >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but
>> likely there is a big network of
>>>>>>>>  >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
>>>  doing most non-trivial ACE
>>>>>>>>  >>> development is going to want. One source
>> distribution makes this easy,
>>>>>>>>  >>> making them have to download them all
>> separately isn't particularly
>>>>>>>>  >>> practical. That
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>>>>>>>  >>> is structured so the ASF committers can
>> work with them as one single
>>>>>>>>  >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats
>> true.
>>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>>  >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable
>> source for each jar how are
>>>>>>>>  >>> people really going to verify that the
>> release is actually buildable
>>>>>>>>  >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source
>> when reviewing and voting
>>>>>>>>  >>> on release votes? No one reviewing
>>>  is really likely to download 60
>>>>>>>>  >>> separate distros and build them all one by
>> one are they?
>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>  >> I disagree. There seems to be some
>> misunderstanding that there is one
>>>>>>>>  single
>>>>>>>>  >> product that must be built.
>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>  >> When you develop independently evolving
>> modules, "big bang" releases do
>>>>>>>>  not
>>>>>>>>  >> make sense. Each module has its own release
>> cycle. Occasionally you may
>>>>>>>>  end
>>>>>>>>  >> up creating some sort of
>> "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>>>>>>>  that,
>>>>>>>>  >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>>  > I agree thats an approach used and works in many
>> projects but if that
>>>>>>>>  > was really the case _here_  then surely the
>>>  SVN would be structured so
>>>>>>>>  > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders
>> for each module,
>>>>>>>>  > there would have been more releases than just the
>> single 0.8.0
>>>>>>>>  > release, and there would be separate release votes
>> for each module
>>>>>>>>  > being released.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  We have a tag per module and that is enough.
>> Furthermore, we do
>>>>>>>>  combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we
>> want to release
>>>>>>>>  them at the same time) in one vote as it would
>> otherwise create a lot
>>>>>>>>  of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up
>> some of the other
>>>>>>>>  OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of
>> their releases).
>>>>>>>>  The only thing we missed was the source distributions
>> per artifact.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a
>> failure. Let it
>>>  be
>>>>>>> noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's
>> no reason to hold
>>>>>>> this podling back because of some minor release
>> inconsistencies which are
>>>>>>> natural as we shift from monolithic products to component
>> based OSGi
>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>  For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.

Shipping tests is not a formal requirement of a release.
httpd certainly doesn't offer its test suite as part of
a release- you have to download that (from svn) yourself.



----- Original Message -----
> From: sebb <se...@gmail.com>
> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
> Cc: 
> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> 
> On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>> From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>> To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>; 
> "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>> 
>>> 
>>> "Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
>>> for a release; so long as the artifacts can
>>> be built from the distributed source files
>>> using a repeatable and documented process you
>>> are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
>>> an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
>>> appearon the surface to be contradicting
>>> what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
>>> 
>>> ("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
>>> tho.)
> 
> That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
> source jars as far as I can tell.
> 
>>> 
>>> In any case, if you can make building from
>>> source more convenient for end-users, that
>>> would certainly count as an improvement.
>>> But holding up graduation until that is
>>> 
>>> actually done makes zero sense to me.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>  From: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer 
> <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer 
> <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>  I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
>>>>>  to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
>>>>>  module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
>>>>>  are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
>>>>>  the previous release?
>>>> 
>>>> It has been argued that they are hard to build because they 
> don't
>>>> contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
>>>> download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
>>>> make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
>>>> you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into 
> it,
>>>> and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
>>>> first as
>>  well.
>>>> 
>>>> regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Karl
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>  From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>>>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls 
> <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder 
> <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>  > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall 
> <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>  >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl 
> Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant 
> elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>  >>>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this 
> release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>>>>  >>>>> has an understanding of making or 
> reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>>>>>>  the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>> So you want us to do a new release? 
> Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>>>>>  >>>> new release which has the source 
> distribution configured. That was a
>>>>>>>  >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes 
> the bundles not easily
>>>>>>>  >>>> individually buildable.
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>>> However, we still will not have a 
> combined source release as we want
>>>>>>>  >>>> to be able to release our bundles 
> individually. Is that the resolution
>>>>>>>  >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a 
> micro release with the source
>>>>>>>  >>>> distribution configured on a per 
> artifact level?
>>>>>>>  >>>>
>>>>>>>  >>> I agree the requirement for
>>  a single source release doesn't seem
>>>>>>>  >>> totally clear, I've said I think you 
> should have one and so has sebb,
>>>>>>>  >>> it would be good to hear what other 
> Incubator PMC people think. I
>>>>>>>  >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the 
> releases are how users get hold
>>>>>>>  >>> of that source. If a user is going to do 
> development with the released
>>>>>>>  >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to 
> be able to do very much useful
>>>>>>>  >>> with just single things like 
> org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>>>>>>  >>> very least they're probably going to 
> want
>>>>>>>  >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but 
> likely there is a big network of
>>>>>>>  >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
>>  doing most non-trivial ACE
>>>>>>>  >>> development is going to want. One source 
> distribution makes this easy,
>>>>>>>  >>> making them have to download them all 
> separately isn't particularly
>>>>>>>  >>> practical. That 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>>>>>>  >>> is structured so the ASF committers can 
> work with them as one single
>>>>>>>  >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats 
> true.
>>>>>>>  >>>
>>>>>>>  >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable 
> source for each jar how are
>>>>>>>  >>> people really going to verify that the 
> release is actually buildable
>>>>>>>  >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source 
> when reviewing and voting
>>>>>>>  >>> on release votes? No one reviewing
>>  is really likely to download 60
>>>>>>>  >>> separate distros and build them all one by 
> one are they?
>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>  >> I disagree. There seems to be some 
> misunderstanding that there is one
>>>>>>>  single
>>>>>>>  >> product that must be built.
>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>  >> When you develop independently evolving 
> modules, "big bang" releases do
>>>>>>>  not
>>>>>>>  >> make sense. Each module has its own release 
> cycle. Occasionally you may
>>>>>>>  end
>>>>>>>  >> up creating some sort of 
> "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>>>>>>  that,
>>>>>>>  >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>>>>>>  >>
>>>>>>>  >
>>>>>>>  > I agree thats an approach used and works in many 
> projects but if that
>>>>>>>  > was really the case _here_  then surely the
>>  SVN would be structured so
>>>>>>>  > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders 
> for each module,
>>>>>>>  > there would have been more releases than just the 
> single 0.8.0
>>>>>>>  > release, and there would be separate release votes 
> for each module
>>>>>>>  > being released.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  We have a tag per module and that is enough. 
> Furthermore, we do
>>>>>>>  combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we 
> want to release
>>>>>>>  them at the same time) in one vote as it would 
> otherwise create a lot
>>>>>>>  of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up 
> some of the other
>>>>>>>  OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of 
> their releases).
>>>>>>>  The only thing we missed was the source distributions 
> per artifact.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a 
> failure. Let it
>>  be
>>>>>> noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's 
> no reason to hold
>>>>>> this podling back because of some minor release 
> inconsistencies which are
>>>>>> natural as we shift from monolithic products to component 
> based OSGi
>>>>>> products.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>  ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>  To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>  For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> 
>> 
> 

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 21 November 2011 15:48, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>; "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org>
>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>
>>
>>"Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
>>for a release; so long as the artifacts can
>>be built from the distributed source files
>>using a repeatable and documented process you
>>are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
>>an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
>>appearon the surface to be contradicting
>>what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
>>
>>("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
>>tho.)

That is the case for the JUnit tests, which are not included in the
source jars as far as I can tell.

>>
>>In any case, if you can make building from
>>source more convenient for end-users, that
>>would certainly count as an improvement.
>>But holding up graduation until that is
>>
>>actually done makes zero sense to me.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>
>>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
>>>> to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
>>>> module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
>>>> are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
>>>> the previous release?
>>>
>>>It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
>>>contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
>>>download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
>>>make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
>>>you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
>>>and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
>>>first as
> well.
>>>
>>>regards,
>>>
>>>Karl
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>________________________________
>>>>> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>>> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>>>> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>>>>> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>>>>> >>>> individually buildable.
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>>>>> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>>>>> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>>>>> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>> >>> I agree the requirement for
> a single source release doesn't seem
>>>>>> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>>>>> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>>>>> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>>>>> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>>>>> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>>>>> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>>>>> >>> very least they're probably going to want
>>>>>> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>>>>> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
> doing most non-trivial ACE
>>>>>> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>>>>> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>>>>> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>>>>> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>>>>> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>>>>> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>>>>> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>>>>> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing
> is really likely to download 60
>>>>>> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
>>>>>> single
>>>>>> >> product that must be built.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
>>>>>> end
>>>>>> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>>>>> that,
>>>>>> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
>>>>>> > was really the case _here_  then surely the
> SVN would be structured so
>>>>>> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
>>>>>> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
>>>>>> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
>>>>>> > being released.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
>>>>>> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
>>>>>> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
>>>>>> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
>>>>>> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
>>>>>> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it
> be
>>>>>noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
>>>>>this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
>>>>>natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
>>>>>products.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best,
>>>>>Alex
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Karl Pauls
>>>karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

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Fw: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.




----- Forwarded Message -----
>From: Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>
>To: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>; "general@incubator.apache.org" <ge...@incubator.apache.org> 
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:44 AM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> 
>
>"Hard to build" isn't a blocking criterion
>for a release; so long as the artifacts can
>be built from the distributed source files
>using a repeatable and documented process you
>are ok in my book.  Downloading a pom from
>an ASF mirror or from maven central doesn't
>appearon the surface to be contradicting
>what Iwrote in the first sentence here.
>
>("Downloading" from svn.a.o would be a problem
>tho.)
>
>In any case, if you can make building from
>source more convenient for end-users, that
>would certainly count as an improvement.
>But holding up graduation until that is 
>
>actually done makes zero sense to me.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>________________________________
>> From: Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>
>>To: general@incubator.apache.org; Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> 
>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:38 AM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>> 
>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
>>> to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
>>> module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
>>> are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
>>> the previous release?
>>
>>It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
>>contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
>>download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
>>make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
>>you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
>>and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
>>first as
well.
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Karl
>>
>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>>>
>>>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>>> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>>>> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>>>> >>>> individually buildable.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>>>> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>>>> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>>>> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>> I agree the requirement for
a single source release doesn't seem
>>>>> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>>>> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>>>> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>>>> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>>>> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>>>> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>>>> >>> very least they're probably going to want
>>>>> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>>>> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone
doing most non-trivial ACE
>>>>> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>>>> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>>>> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>>>> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>>>> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>>>> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>>>> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>>>> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing
is really likely to download 60
>>>>> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
>>>>> single
>>>>> >> product that must be built.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
>>>>> not
>>>>> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
>>>>> end
>>>>> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>>>> that,
>>>>> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
>>>>> > was really the case _here_  then surely the
SVN would be structured so
>>>>> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
>>>>> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
>>>>> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
>>>>> > being released.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
>>>>> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
>>>>> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
>>>>> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
>>>>> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
>>>>> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it
be
>>>>noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
>>>>this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
>>>>natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
>>>>products.
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>Alex
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>Karl Pauls
>>karlpauls@gmail.com
>>http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
> to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
> module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
> are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
> the previous release?

It has been argued that they are hard to build because they don't
contain the pom files (they are in the dist dir too, but as another
download). We forgot to configure that in the build. Typically, we
make it so that the source artifacts contain the pom as well so all
you have to do is to unzip the source distro of a module, cd into it,
and mvn clean install. In this case, you have to download the pom
first as well.

regards,

Karl

>
>>________________________________
>> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
>>
>>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>>>  wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
>>> the
>>> >>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>> >>>> individually buildable.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>> >>>>
>>> >>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>>> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>> >>> very least they're probably going to want
>>> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>>> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>>> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>>> >>
>>> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
>>> single
>>> >> product that must be built.
>>> >>
>>> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
>>> not
>>> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
>>> end
>>> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
>>> that,
>>> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
>>> > was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
>>> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
>>> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
>>> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
>>> > being released.
>>>
>>> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
>>> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
>>> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
>>> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
>>> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
>>> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>>>
>>>
>>And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
>>noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
>>this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
>>natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
>>products.
>>
>>Best,
>>Alex
>>
>>
>>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>.

I'm confused.  In /dist/incubator/ace/, there appears
to be an *.incubator-sources.* file for each independent
module in the release.  Are those not actually what they
are advertised to be?  What exactly is the problem with
the previous release?




>________________________________
> From: Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>
>To: general@incubator.apache.org 
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 10:23 AM
>Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator
> 
>On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>>  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
>> the
>> >>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>> >>>> individually buildable.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>> >>>>
>> >>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>> >>> very least they're probably going to want
>> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>> >>
>> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
>> single
>> >> product that must be built.
>> >>
>> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
>> not
>> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
>> end
>> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
>> that,
>> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
>> > was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
>> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
>> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
>> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
>> > being released.
>>
>> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
>> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
>> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
>> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
>> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
>> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>>
>>
>And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
>noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
>this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
>natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
>products.
>
>Best,
>Alex
>
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org>
> wrote:
> >> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>
>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>
>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
> >>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats
> the
> >>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
> >>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
> >>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
> >>>> individually buildable.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
> >>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
> >>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
> >>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
> >>>>
> >>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
> >>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
> >>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
> >>> think you need one for two main reasons:
> >>>
> >>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
> >>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
> >>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
> >>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
> >>> very least they're probably going to want
> >>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
> >>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
> >>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
> >>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
> >>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
> >>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
> >>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
> >>>
> >>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
> >>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
> >>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
> >>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
> >>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
> >>
> >> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one
> single
> >> product that must be built.
> >>
> >> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do
> not
> >> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may
> end
> >> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release
> that,
> >> but that is just one potential distribution.
> >>
> >
> > I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
> > was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
> > that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
> > there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
> > release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
> > being released.
>
> We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
> combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
> them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
> of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
> OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
> The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.
>
>
And that IMHO is not enough to consider the release a failure. Let it be
noted and corrected for future releases. AFAIC there's no reason to hold
this podling back because of some minor release inconsistencies which are
natural as we shift from monolithic products to component based OSGi
products.

Best,
Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>.

On 11/21/11 10:11 , ant elder wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall<he...@ungoverned.org>  wrote:
>> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>    wrote:
>>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>>> individually buildable.
>>>>
>>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>>
>>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>> very least they're probably going to want
>>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
>> product that must be built.
>>
>> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do not
>> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
>> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release that,
>> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>
> I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
> was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
> that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,

Why do we need separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module? We 
don't do it that way in Felix either. I don't see anything magical about 
having separate folders for each. Are you purely worried about the 
overhead of looking through a long directory listing?

-> richard

> there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
> release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
> being released.
>
>     ...ant
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org> wrote:
>> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>>
>>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>>> individually buildable.
>>>>
>>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>>
>>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>>
>>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>>> very least they're probably going to want
>>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>>
>> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
>> product that must be built.
>>
>> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do not
>> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
>> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release that,
>> but that is just one potential distribution.
>>
>
> I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
> was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
> that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
> there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
> release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
> being released.

We have a tag per module and that is enough. Furthermore, we do
combine several modules if it makes sense (i.e., we want to release
them at the same time) in one vote as it would otherwise create a lot
of extra traffic. That's all. It is the same set-up some of the other
OSGi projects at the asf have (I did quite a lot of their releases).
The only thing we missed was the source distributions per artifact.

regards,

Karl

>   ...ant
>
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-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Richard S. Hall <he...@ungoverned.org> wrote:
> On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>>
>>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>>> individually buildable.
>>>
>>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>>
>> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
>> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
>> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
>> think you need one for two main reasons:
>>
>> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
>> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
>> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
>> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
>> very least they're probably going to want
>> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
>> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
>> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
>> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
>> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
>> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
>> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>>
>> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
>> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
>> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
>> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
>> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>
> I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one single
> product that must be built.
>
> When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do not
> make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you may end
> up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and release that,
> but that is just one potential distribution.
>

I agree thats an approach used and works in many projects but if that
was really the case _here_  then surely the SVN would be structured so
that there were separate trunk/branch/tag folders for each module,
there would have been more releases than just the single 0.8.0
release, and there would be separate release votes for each module
being released.

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "Richard S. Hall" <he...@ungoverned.org>.

On 11/21/11 09:41 , ant elder wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls<ka...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder<an...@apache.org>  wrote:
>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>> individually buildable.
>>
>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>
> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
> think you need one for two main reasons:
>
> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
> very least they're probably going to want
> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>
> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

I disagree. There seems to be some misunderstanding that there is one 
single product that must be built.

When you develop independently evolving modules, "big bang" releases do 
not make sense. Each module has its own release cycle. Occasionally you 
may end up creating some sort of "distribution" out of the modules and 
release that, but that is just one potential distribution.

We do something similar in Felix. We create a framework distribution 
that contains a handful of our overall modules, but that is largely for 
convenience. All modules are still released independently. It would be a 
nightmare if to release any module we had to coordinate the release of 
all modules.

-> richard

>
>     ...ant
>
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 21 November 2011 14:41, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>>
>> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
>> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
>> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
>> individually buildable.
>>
>> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
>> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
>> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
>> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>>
>
> I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
> totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
> it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
> think you need one for two main reasons:
>
> 1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
> of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
> ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
> with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
> very least they're probably going to want
> org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
> the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
> development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
> making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
> practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
> is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
> buildable checkout i think shows thats true.
>
> 2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
> people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
> and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
> on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
> separate distros and build them all one by one are they?
>
>   ...ant

+1, agree totally, was just composing a similar reply.

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
>> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
>> point of requiring releases during incubation.
>
> So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
> new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
> mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
> individually buildable.
>
> However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
> to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
> then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
> distribution configured on a per artifact level?
>

I agree the requirement for a single source release doesn't seem
totally clear, I've said I think you should have one and so has sebb,
it would be good to hear what other Incubator PMC people think. I
think you need one for two main reasons:

1) The ASF deals with source and the releases are how users get hold
of that source. If a user is going to do development with the released
ACE source they likely aren't going to be able to do very much useful
with just single things like org.apache.ace.repository.imp. At the
very least they're probably going to want
org.apache.ace.repository.api too but likely there is a big network of
the 60 something ACE modules that anyone doing most non-trivial ACE
development is going to want. One source distribution makes this easy,
making them have to download them all separately isn't particularly
practical. That https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/trunk/
is structured so the ASF committers can work with them as one single
buildable checkout i think shows thats true.

2) If there is only individually buildable source for each jar how are
people really going to verify that the release is actually buildable
and the artifacts match the SVN tag source when reviewing and voting
on release votes? No one reviewing is really likely to download 60
separate distros and build them all one by one are they?

   ...ant

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:08 PM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
> has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
> point of requiring releases during incubation.

So you want us to do a new release? Fine, whatever, we can just roll a
new release which has the source distribution configured. That was a
mistake in the first place as it makes the bundles not easily
individually buildable.

However, we still will not have a combined source release as we want
to be able to release our bundles individually. Is that the resolution
then? All we have to do is a do a micro release with the source
distribution configured on a per artifact level?

> The comment from Guillaume in this thread was just about naming the
> SVN folder containing the tags "releases" instead of "tags" which no
> one is saying is a major issue.

No, he had two remarks, one about the tags and one about the source releases.

regards,

Karl

>   ...ant
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).
>>
>> On the one hand (as pointed out by Guillaume Nodet), we should have
>> generated the source distribution for each bundle. We switched to a
>> newer parent pom and did miss that we should have configured that.
>> This makes it not very practical to build the release and we for sure
>> will configure it next time.
>>
>> On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
>> distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
>> independently from each other.
>>
>> In summary, the next release will contain easier to build source
>> distributions for each bundle but not a single source distribution for
>> all of them. That is a good catch overall but I don't think it makes
>> this release invalid (as the required things are there - just
>> unfortunately not very practical to build).  As we are planning to
>> roll a 1.0.0 release anyways when graduated, I'd say lets ask for
>> graduation and then provide a 1.0.0 release which has the source
>> distribution configured per bundle. How about that?
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:56 AM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
>>> to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
>>> modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
>>> not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
>>> actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
>>> had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
>>> those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
>>> mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
>>> another release like this before you graduate?
>>>
>>>  ...ant
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>>
>>>>>   ...ant
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.

Well IMHO i don't think this release demonstrates that the poddling
has an understanding of making or reviewing ASF releases and thats the
point of requiring releases during incubation.

The comment from Guillaume in this thread was just about naming the
SVN folder containing the tags "releases" instead of "tags" which no
one is saying is a major issue.

   ...ant

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).
>
> On the one hand (as pointed out by Guillaume Nodet), we should have
> generated the source distribution for each bundle. We switched to a
> newer parent pom and did miss that we should have configured that.
> This makes it not very practical to build the release and we for sure
> will configure it next time.
>
> On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
> distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
> independently from each other.
>
> In summary, the next release will contain easier to build source
> distributions for each bundle but not a single source distribution for
> all of them. That is a good catch overall but I don't think it makes
> this release invalid (as the required things are there - just
> unfortunately not very practical to build).  As we are planning to
> roll a 1.0.0 release anyways when graduated, I'd say lets ask for
> graduation and then provide a 1.0.0 release which has the source
> distribution configured per bundle. How about that?
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:56 AM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
>> to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
>> modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
>> not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
>> actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
>> had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
>> those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
>> mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
>> another release like this before you graduate?
>>
>>  ...ant
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>>> $ mvn clean install
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>>
>>>>   ...ant
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>>> the full source.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Well, I agree and disagree at the same time :-).

On the one hand (as pointed out by Guillaume Nodet), we should have
generated the source distribution for each bundle. We switched to a
newer parent pom and did miss that we should have configured that.
This makes it not very practical to build the release and we for sure
will configure it next time.

On the other hand, we don't want to provide a single source
distribution for all bundles as we still want to release our bundles
independently from each other.

In summary, the next release will contain easier to build source
distributions for each bundle but not a single source distribution for
all of them. That is a good catch overall but I don't think it makes
this release invalid (as the required things are there - just
unfortunately not very practical to build).  As we are planning to
roll a 1.0.0 release anyways when graduated, I'd say lets ask for
graduation and then provide a 1.0.0 release which has the source
distribution configured per bundle. How about that?

regards,

Karl


On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:56 AM, ant elder <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
> to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
> modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
> not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
> actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
> had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
> those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
> mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
> another release like this before you graduate?
>
>  ...ant
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
>> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
>> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
>> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
>> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
>> $ mvn clean install
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>>
>>>   ...ant
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>>> the full source.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>>
>>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>>
>>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.

That seems an unusual approach to building the src. It also means that
to build the complete 0.8.0 release which contains 60 something
modules would require manually typing in over 400 commands which is
not very practical, i doubt anyone who voted +1 for the release
actually did that. I think an ASF release like this should have also
had a single source distribution that contained all the source for all
those modules along with a build script to build them, and IMHO your
mentors should have helped you do that. Would you consider doing
another release like this before you graduate?

  ...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> $ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
> $ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
> $ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
> $ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
> $ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
> $ mvn clean install
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
>> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
>> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
>> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
>> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>>
>>   ...ant
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>>> the full source.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>>> the distribution directory.
>>>>
>>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>>
>>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>>
>>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>>
>>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>>
>>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>>> to fix.
>>>>>
>>>>> regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>>> each component.
>>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

$ mkdir org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator
$ cd org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator/
$ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-source.jar
$ jar -xf org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar
$ wget http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom
$ mv org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator.pom pom.xml
$ mvn clean install

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:54 PM, ant elder <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
> jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
> one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
> looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
> scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?
>
>   ...ant
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
>> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
>> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
>> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
>> the full source.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>>
>>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>>> the distribution directory.
>>>
>>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>>> And the etc/ directory?
>>>
>>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>>
>>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>>
>>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>>
>>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>>> to fix.
>>>>
>>>> regards,
>>>>
>>>> Karl
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>>> anywhere.
>>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>>> as I can tell.
>>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>>
>>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>>
>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>>> - KEYS
>>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>>> files appear to be
>>>>>
>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>>
>>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>>
>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>>
>>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>>
>>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>>
>>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>>> each component.
>>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Karl Pauls
>>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by ant elder <an...@gmail.com>.

To try that I just went to the ACE downloads page which has a bunch of
jars and source jars to download, i downloaded the source of the first
one, org.apache.ace.client.automation-0.8.0-incubator-sources.jar, and
looking inside there is the source to some Java classes but no build
scripts or pom.xml file, so how would I go about building this?

   ...ant

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:35 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
> the full source.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>
>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>> the distribution directory.
>>
>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>> And the etc/ directory?
>>
>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>
>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>
>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>
>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>> to fix.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>
>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>
>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>> anywhere.
>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>> as I can tell.
>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>
>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>> - KEYS
>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>
>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>> files appear to be
>>>>
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>
>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>
>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>
>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>
>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>> each component.
>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Benson Margulies <bi...@gmail.com>.

+1 (binding)

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
> vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
> again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
> -source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
> the full source.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>>
>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>> the distribution directory.
>>
>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>> And the etc/ directory?
>>
>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>
>>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>
>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>
>>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>>> to fix.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>>
>>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>>
>>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>>
>>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>>> anywhere.
>>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>>> as I can tell.
>>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>>
>>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>>> - KEYS
>>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>>
>>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>>> the Maven repo.
>>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>>> files appear to be
>>>>
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>>
>>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>>
>>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>>
>>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>>
>>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>>
>>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>>> each component.
>>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Karl Pauls
>>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
-source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
the full source.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>
> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
> the distribution directory.
>
> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
> And the etc/ directory?
>
> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>
>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>
> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>
>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>> to fix.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>
>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>
>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>
>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>> anywhere.
>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>> as I can tell.
>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>
>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>> - KEYS
>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>
>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>> the Maven repo.
>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>> files appear to be
>>>
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>
>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>
>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>
>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>
>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>> each component.
>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>
>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

Again, we had this discussion before namely, when the actual release
vote happened. I'm still confused why we have to go through this
again. You should be able to build all of the components by using the
-source.jar's that are provided. They contain what is necessary i.e.,
the full source.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:30 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>> artifact in the -source.jar.
>
> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
> the distribution directory.
>
> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
> And the etc/ directory?
>
> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>
>> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>
> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>
>> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>> to fix.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>>
>>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>>
>>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>>
>>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>> anywhere.
>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>> as I can tell.
>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>
>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>> - KEYS
>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>
>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>> the Maven repo.
>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>> files appear to be
>>>
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>
>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>
>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>
>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>
>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>> each component.
>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>
>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Karl Pauls
>> karlpauls@gmail.com
>> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 14:30, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
>> > as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
>> > be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
>> > artifact in the -source.jar.
>>
>> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
>> the distribution directory.
>>
>> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
>> And the etc/ directory?
>>
>> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
>> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>>
>
> The svn tree is not supposed to be a source distribution so looking at it
> as a buildable thing is not required.
>
>
>> > There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
>> > but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
>> > example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
>> > become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>>
>> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>>
>
> I agree on the first part, but not the *full* source.
>  @ace you should look at the felix way which always include a source
> distribution for each bundle.

Yeah, we could have configured the source-release, i agree. However, i
don't think that is a show-stopper (as much as it could be anyhow, as
the release already happend) as we have the source and what is need to
build. Another way to get this is to go to the tags at:

http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/releases/$subproject

regards,

Karl

>
>>
>> > I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
>> > dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
>> > to fix.
>> >
>> > regards,
>> >
>> > Karl
>> >
>> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <
>> marcel.offermans@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> >>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from
>> the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>> >>>
>> >>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
>> committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release
>> in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've
>> shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
>> continues to attract new contributors and users.
>> >>>
>> >>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
>> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>> >>>
>> >>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>> >>
>> >> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>> >>
>> >> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>> >> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>> >> anywhere.
>> >> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>> >> as I can tell.
>> >> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>> >> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>> >>
>> >> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>> >> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>> >>
>> >> /dist/incubator/ace
>> >> - KEYS
>> >> - binaries/ace ....zip
>> >> - sources/ace....zip
>> >>
>> >> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>> >> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>> >> the Maven repo.
>> >> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>> >> files appear to be
>> >>
>> >> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>> >> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>> >>
>> >> neither of which contains the source.
>> >>
>> >> I would expect the above zips to be in
>> >>
>> >> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>> >>
>> >> with corresponding source files in
>> >>
>> >> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>> >>
>> >> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>> >> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>> >> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>> >> each component.
>> >> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>> >> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>> >>
>> >> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Karl Pauls
>> > karlpauls@gmail.com
>> > http://twitter.com/karlpauls
>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
>> > https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 14:30, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
> > as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
> > be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
> > artifact in the -source.jar.
>
> AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
> the distribution directory.
>
> For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
> And the etc/ directory?
>
> If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
> appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.
>

The svn tree is not supposed to be a source distribution so looking at it
as a buildable thing is not required.


> > There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
> > but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
> > example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
> > become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).
>
> The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.
>

I agree on the first part, but not the *full* source.
 @ace you should look at the felix way which always include a source
distribution for each bundle.


>
> > I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
> > dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
> > to fix.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <
> marcel.offermans@luminis.nl> wrote:
> >>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from
> the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> >>>
> >>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new
> committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release
> in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've
> shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE
> continues to attract new contributors and users.
> >>>
> >>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
> incubator list. The full process is described at
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> >>>
> >>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> >>
> >> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
> >>
> >> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
> >> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
> >> anywhere.
> >> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
> >> as I can tell.
> >> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
> >> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
> >>
> >> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
> >> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
> >>
> >> /dist/incubator/ace
> >> - KEYS
> >> - binaries/ace ....zip
> >> - sources/ace....zip
> >>
> >> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
> >> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
> >> the Maven repo.
> >> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
> >> files appear to be
> >>
> >> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
> >> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
> >>
> >> neither of which contains the source.
> >>
> >> I would expect the above zips to be in
> >>
> >> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
> >>
> >> with corresponding source files in
> >>
> >> /dist/incubator/ace/source
> >>
> >> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
> >> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
> >> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
> >> each component.
> >> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
> >> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
> >>
> >> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Karl Pauls
> > karlpauls@gmail.com
> > http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> > https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
> artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
> to fix.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>
>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>
>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>
>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>> anywhere.
>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>> as I can tell.
>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>
>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace
>> - KEYS
>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>> - sources/ace....zip
>>
>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>> the Maven repo.
>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>> files appear to be
>>
>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>
>> neither of which contains the source.
>>
>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>
>> with corresponding source files in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>
>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>> each component.
>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>
>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 12:29, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
> as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
> be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
> artifact in the -source.jar.

AFAICT the full source (as in SVN trunk) is not actually present in
the distribution directory.

For example, where are the top-level files in SVN (BUILDING, README) ?
And the etc/ directory?

If I wanted to build any or all of the components, there does not
appear to be a way to do this from the files in the distribution.

> There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
> but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
> example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
> become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

The ASF primarily releases source; releases must include full source.

> I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
> dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
> to fix.
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>
>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>>
>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>
>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>> anywhere.
>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>> as I can tell.
>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>
>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace
>> - KEYS
>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>> - sources/ace....zip
>>
>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>> the Maven repo.
>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>> files appear to be
>>
>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>
>> neither of which contains the source.
>>
>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>
>> with corresponding source files in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>
>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>> each component.
>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>
>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
artifact in the -source.jar.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>
> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
> anywhere.
> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
> as I can tell.
> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>
> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>
> /dist/incubator/ace
> - KEYS
> - binaries/ace ....zip
> - sources/ace....zip
>
> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
> the Maven repo.
> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
> files appear to be
>
> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>
> neither of which contains the source.
>
> I would expect the above zips to be in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>
> with corresponding source files in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>
> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
> each component.
> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>
> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 2:34 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 12:51, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
>> it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
>> for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
>> not up to you to decide imho.
>
> The SVN layout is less of a concern, although the lack of a single tag
> for a release is odd.
> Not all of the files in SVN trunk appear in releases/


Why would they have to? We don't release the complete svn trunk but
only the part of it that we want to release. Again, we have a modular
layout and we only release the modules we want to at a given time
_without_ releasing the complete trunk every time. Yes, that is more
work but we from the osgi/modular world prefer it over the problems we
get with big-bang releases.

That said, each binary artifact contains the necessary legal files and
-source.jar's are provided that contain the full source and necessary
legal files. I admit that it might take some getting used to if you
don't know maven well or are not used to modular osgi bundle releases
but please, look at the artifacts that have been released - not at the
svn trunk. We don't release the trunk, we release releases. They must
have legal files and full source and they do.

regards,

Karl

>> Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
>> really don't see that as a problem.
>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>> > In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
>>> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>> >
>>> > Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
>>> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
>>> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
>>> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
>>> new contributors and users.
>>> >
>>> > The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
>>> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>> >
>>> > The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>>> anywhere.
>>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>>> as I can tell.
>>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>>
>>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace
>>> - KEYS
>>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>>> - sources/ace....zip
>>>
>>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>>> the Maven repo.
>>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>>> files appear to be
>>>
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>>
>>> neither of which contains the source.
>>>
>>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>>
>>> with corresponding source files in
>>>
>>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>>
>>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>>> each component.
>>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>>
>>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------
>> Guillaume Nodet
>> ------------------------
>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>> ------------------------
>> Open Source SOA
>> http://fusesource.com
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 12:51, Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
> it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
> for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
> not up to you to decide imho.

The SVN layout is less of a concern, although the lack of a single tag
for a release is odd.
Not all of the files in SVN trunk appear in releases/

> Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
> really don't see that as a problem.

> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>
>> wrote:
>> > In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
>> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>> >
>> > Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
>> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
>> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
>> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
>> new contributors and users.
>> >
>> > The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
>> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
>> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
>> incubator list. The full process is described at
>> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>> >
>> > The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
>> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
>> anywhere.
>> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
>> as I can tell.
>> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
>> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>>
>> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
>> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace
>> - KEYS
>> - binaries/ace ....zip
>> - sources/ace....zip
>>
>> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
>> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
>> the Maven repo.
>> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
>> files appear to be
>>
>> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>>
>> neither of which contains the source.
>>
>> I would expect the above zips to be in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>>
>> with corresponding source files in
>>
>> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>>
>> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
>> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
>> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
>> each component.
>> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
>> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>>
>> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

As much as I don't like this layout, this is not the first projet to use
it, and I don't really see how / why the IPMC should decide the svn layout
for the project.   You won't be the one to manage it daily afaik, so that's
not up to you to decide imho.
Sling and Felix already use such a layout and they are both TLP, so I
really don't see that as a problem.

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 13:07, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>
> wrote:
> > In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> >
> > Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
> new contributors and users.
> >
> > The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
> incubator list. The full process is described at
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> >
> > The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>
> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
> anywhere.
> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
> as I can tell.
> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>
> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>
> /dist/incubator/ace
> - KEYS
> - binaries/ace ....zip
> - sources/ace....zip
>
> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
> the Maven repo.
> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
> files appear to be
>
> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>
> neither of which contains the source.
>
> I would expect the above zips to be in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>
> with corresponding source files in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>
> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
> each component.
> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>
> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>


-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

I'm not sure what this has to do with the graduation vote. The release
as such has been accepted by the incubator pmc and there only need to
be one release. The source for each artifact is there, it is just per
artifact in the -source.jar.

There might be different set-up then a lot of other projects have it
but we release our stuff on a per artifact basis how it is done by for
example Apache Felix as well and never has been an issue (and didn't
become unmanageably either -  also ymmv).

I agree about the KEYS file. We should have uploaded it to the dist
dir as well but at least we have it at some place so it should be easy
to fix.

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 1:07 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>>
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.
>
> There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
> and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
> anywhere.
> The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
> as I can tell.
> It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
> copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.
>
> Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
> with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.
>
> /dist/incubator/ace
> - KEYS
> - binaries/ace ....zip
> - sources/ace....zip
>
> Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
> Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
> the Maven repo.
> Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
> files appear to be
>
> org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
> org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
>
> neither of which contains the source.
>
> I would expect the above zips to be in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/binaries
>
> with corresponding source files in
>
> /dist/incubator/ace/source
>
> The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
> There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
> releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
> each component.
> This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
> adds another 63 directory entries under releases/
>
> [1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
anywhere.
The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
as I can tell.
It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace ....zip
- sources/ace....zip

Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
the Maven repo.
Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
files appear to be

org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

neither of which contains the source.

I would expect the above zips to be in

/dist/incubator/ace/binaries

with corresponding source files in

/dist/incubator/ace/source

The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
each component.
This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

[1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.

+1 (binding) congrats!

Cheers,
Chris

On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> 
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
> 
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Greetings, Marcel
> 


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.

+1

binding ...

Cheers,
Alex

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:07 PM, <da...@apache.org> wrote:

> +1 (non-binding).
> It would be great to see Ace as a top level project.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Bosschaert
>
> On 19 November 2011 01:33, Julien Vermillard <jv...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > +1 binding
> >
> > On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com>
> wrote:
> >> +1  binding
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Alan
> >>
> >> On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
> >>
> >>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
> > Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> >>>
> >>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
> > (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May
> this
> > year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an
> ability
> > to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to
> attract
> > new contributors and users.
> >>>
> >>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
> > ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
> > board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
> > incubator list. The full process is described at
> > http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> >>>
> >>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> >>>
> >>> Greetings, Marcel
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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>
>


-- 
Best Regards,
-- Alex

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by da...@apache.org.

+1 (non-binding).
It would be great to see Ace as a top level project.

Best regards,

David Bosschaert

On 19 November 2011 01:33, Julien Vermillard <jv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 binding
>
> On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
>> +1  binding
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Alan
>>
>> On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
>>
>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>>
>>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
> new contributors and users.
>>>
>>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
> ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
> board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
> incubator list. The full process is described at
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>>
>>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>>
>>> Greetings, Marcel
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Julien Vermillard <jv...@gmail.com>.

+1 binding

On Friday, November 18, 2011, Alan D. Cabrera <li...@toolazydogs.com> wrote:
> +1  binding
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
>
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>>
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
(12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
new contributors and users.
>>
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is
ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a
board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general
incubator list. The full process is described at
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>>
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>>
>> Greetings, Marcel
>>
>
>
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>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "Alan D. Cabrera" <li...@toolazydogs.com>.

+1  binding


Regards,
Alan

On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> 
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
> 
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Greetings, Marcel
> 


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Guillaume Nodet <gn...@gmail.com>.

+1

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42, Marcel Offermans <marcel.offermans@luminis.nl
> wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the
> Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers
> (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this
> year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability
> to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract
> new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready
> and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board
> resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator
> list. The full process is described at
> http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>


-- 
------------------------
Guillaume Nodet
------------------------
Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
------------------------
Open Source SOA
http://fusesource.com

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

Big +1

Carsten

2011/11/17 Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>



-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Toni Menzel <to...@okidokiteam.com>.

+1

best regards, Toni

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1
>
> regards,
>
> Karl
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
> <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
>> (removing the general@incubator.apache.org cc, I don't think it's practical)
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans
>> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project....
>>
>> +1
>>
>> -Bertrand (ACE mentor)
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Pauls
> karlpauls@gmail.com
> http://twitter.com/karlpauls
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
> https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls
>



-- 
Toni Menzel Source

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Karl Pauls <ka...@gmail.com>.

+1

regards,

Karl

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz
<bd...@apache.org> wrote:
> (removing the general@incubator.apache.org cc, I don't think it's practical)
>
> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans
> <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project....
>
> +1
>
> -Bertrand (ACE mentor)
>



-- 
Karl Pauls
karlpauls@gmail.com
http://twitter.com/karlpauls
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlpauls
https://profiles.google.com/karlpauls

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.

(removing the general@incubator.apache.org cc, I don't think it's practical)

On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Marcel Offermans
<ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project....

+1

-Bertrand (ACE mentor)

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.

Big +1

Carsten

2011/11/17 Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>



-- 
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.

+1 (binding)
Hadrian

On 11/17/2011 05:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>

-- 
Hadrian Zbarcea
Principal Software Architect
Talend, Inc
http://coders.talend.com/
http://camelbot.blogspot.com/

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.

On 17 November 2011 10:42, Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl> wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.

The last (and only) release was 0.8, as far as I can tell.

There is no KEYS file in http://www.apache.org/dist/incubator/ace/,
and there does not appear to be a full source archive of the project
anywhere.
The download page does not have a link to any source archives as far
as I can tell.
It does link to KEYS in SVN, but almost all other ASF projects have a
copy of KEYS in the appropriate /dist directory.

Normally releases are divided into binaries/ and source/ directories,
with a KEYS file in the top-level, i.e.

/dist/incubator/ace
- KEYS
- binaries/ace ....zip
- sources/ace....zip

Most of the files in the /dist/incubator/ace directory appear to be
Maven artifacts; normally these are not stored in /dist but only in
the Maven repo.
Indeed most of the files are also in Maven Central. The only non-Maven
files appear to be

org.apache.ace.target.devgateway-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip
org.apache.ace.target.devserver-0.8.0-incubator-distribution.zip

neither of which contains the source.

I would expect the above zips to be in

/dist/incubator/ace/binaries

with corresponding source files in

/dist/incubator/ace/source

The SVN layout [1] is also a bit unusual.
There is no tags/ directory for release tags, although there is a
releases/ directory containing individual entries for each release for
each component.
This is likely to become unmanageable very quickly, if every release
adds another 63 directory entries under releases/

[1] https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ace/

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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by mv...@comcast.net.


+1 (non-binding) 





----- Original Message -----


From: "Angelo van der Sijpt" <an...@luminis.eu> 
To: ace-dev@incubator.apache.org 
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 2:51:59 AM 
Subject: Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator 

+1 , sounds good to me! 

Angelo 

On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:53 PM, Brian Topping wrote: 

> +1, congrats! 
> 
> Cheers, Brian 
> 
> On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote: 
> 
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project. 
>> 
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users. 
>> 
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel 
>> 
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours. 
>> 
>> Greetings, Marcel 
>> 
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Angelo van der Sijpt <an...@luminis.eu>.

+1 , sounds good to me!

Angelo

On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:53 PM, Brian Topping wrote:

> +1, congrats!
> 
> Cheers, Brian
> 
> On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
> 
>> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>> 
>> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>> 
>> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>> 
>> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>> 
>> Greetings, Marcel
>> 
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Brian Topping <to...@codehaus.org>.

+1, congrats!

Cheers, Brian

On Nov 17, 2011, at 5:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> 
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
> 
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Greetings, Marcel
>

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by "Mattmann, Chris A (388J)" <ch...@jpl.nasa.gov>.

+1 (binding) congrats!

Cheers,
Chris

On Nov 17, 2011, at 2:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:

> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
> 
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
> 
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
> 
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
> 
> Greetings, Marcel
> 


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
Senior Computer Scientist
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246
Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
WWW:   http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department
University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.

+1

[RESULT] [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Marcel Offermans <ma...@luminis.nl>.

It's time to call the vote on the "community graduation vote" for ACE. The results:

+1: Bertrand Delacretaz (***), Karl Pauls (***), Carsten Ziegeler (***), Felix Meschberger (**), Toni Menzel, Brian Topping, Clement Escoffier (**), Angelo van der Sijpt, <mv...@comcast.net>, Alexander Broekhuis, David Bosschaert, Benson Margulies (*), Chris A Mattmann (*), Alex Karasulu (*), Julien Vermillard (*), Alan D. Cabrera (*), Guillaume Nodet (*), Hadrian Zbarcea (*), Jean-Baptiste Onofré (*), Marcel Offermans (***)

There were no other votes.

* = IPMC
** = PPMC
*** IPMC + PPMC

The vote is succesful. Our next step will be to prepare a charter (see http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#tlp-resolution). I will start writing a draft and post that on the list later today.

Greetings, Marcel


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Re: [VOTE] Graduate ACE from the Apache Incubator

Posted by Hadrian Zbarcea <hz...@gmail.com>.

+1 (binding)
Hadrian

On 11/17/2011 05:42 AM, Marcel Offermans wrote:
> In my opinion, ACE is ready to begin the process of graduating from the Apache Incubator to a Top Level Project.
>
> Since joining the incubator in in May 2009 we've added 4 new committers (12 in total now) from diverse organizations and did a release in May this year to demonstrate we follow the Apache guidelines. We've shown an ability to self-govern using accepted Apache practices and ACE continues to attract new contributors and users.
>
> The first step is to vote as a community, demonstrating that ACE is ready and willing to graduate. Once this vote is succesful we create a board resolution proposal or Charter and start a vote on the general incubator list. The full process is described at http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#toplevel
>
> The vote is open for at least 72 hours.
>
> Greetings, Marcel
>
>

-- 
Hadrian Zbarcea
Principal Software Architect
Talend, Inc
http://coders.talend.com/
http://camelbot.blogspot.com/

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