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Posted to dev@subversion.apache.org by Joaquin Salvachua <js...@yahoo.es> on 2002/04/11 12:53:12 UTC
Java Version
Hello,
I have just discover your project and I think that is
a great idea. I was thinking on something similar to
build CSCW repositories of documents and information,
but havent start it jet.
So Is someone working on a full Java version of
subversion?. I think that would possible to build
using Jakarta infrastructure.
I offers myself to try to do java port.
Since I am associated professor at Madrid Technical
university I can offer students to collaborate on it
for their Master Thesis.
Regards
Joaquin
-----------------------------------------------------------
Joaquin Salvachua tel: +34 91 549 57 00
x.367
Associated Professor +34 91 549 57 62
x.367
dpt. Telematica
E.T.S.I. Telecomunicacion
Ciudad Universitaria S/N fax: +34 91 336 73 33
E-28040 MADRID SPAIN
mailto: jsalvachua@dit.upm.es //
http://www.dit.upm.es/~jsr
------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de>.
Kevin Galligan wrote:
>Being the only person working on something gets old quick. I understand
>that all too well. It looks like you did a bunch of work on the interfaces,
>but they are not quite up to date with the main calling interfaces. If the
>swig library really does a better job with java (as has been stated in
>recent posts) that would be the obvious way to go (as long as performance
>and functionality are not badly hurt, which seems possible given the goal of
>universal portability). You mentioned that the method names out of the box
>from swig are ugly. I think we'd wind up in the same catch-up boat by
>re-mapping user-friendly names to the swig names whenever the interface
>changed (although it would be a completely different order of magnitude work
>wise). Maybe something that would map names on top of the swig mapped
>names? Yes, that was a joke. Maybe it would work?
>
>-Kevin
>
Having automatic naming convention should work. Could be done with
rules. Take subversion for example.
There are rules on naming global functions. Try to extract these rule
and transform it in some machine
readable format. Then formulate a conversion rule. Voila...
But, to be honest, right now I would prefer on working on other code...
Alex
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Kevin Galligan <ga...@objice.com>.
Being the only person working on something gets old quick. I understand
that all too well. It looks like you did a bunch of work on the interfaces,
but they are not quite up to date with the main calling interfaces. If the
swig library really does a better job with java (as has been stated in
recent posts) that would be the obvious way to go (as long as performance
and functionality are not badly hurt, which seems possible given the goal of
universal portability). You mentioned that the method names out of the box
from swig are ugly. I think we'd wind up in the same catch-up boat by
re-mapping user-friendly names to the swig names whenever the interface
changed (although it would be a completely different order of magnitude work
wise). Maybe something that would map names on top of the swig mapped
names? Yes, that was a joke. Maybe it would work?
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander Mueller" <al...@littleblue.de>
To: "Kevin Galligan" <ga...@objice.com>
Cc: "Greg Stein" <gs...@lyra.org>; "Joaquin Salvachua"
<js...@yahoo.es>; <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 3:39 AM
Subject: Re: Java Version
> Kevin Galligan wrote:
>
> >I would tend to agree. I want to build a client in java, but I couldn't
> >care less what was working under the hood. In fact, I doubt it would be
> >used much. Yeah, I know, java rules, but hear me out. I doubt many
people
> >would install a java server version. If you ran an IT department and had
to
> >choose which one was developed better, which one would you pick? Not
> >because java is good or bad; just the level of development and debugging
> >effort.
> >
> This may be one of the point why .NET (or Mono) might be successful BIG
> time. It doesnt force you to
> rewrite everything (yeah, you do have the JNI, but it still is a pain in
> the butt).
>
> >I could see possibly a full java client that would talk to the server,
but
> >it might be a good idea to wait until the full platform has stabilized
> >somewhat. Otherwise the java version would be playing catch-up as the
main
> >version changed.
> >
> During my manual coding of the JNI glue code I endured this a couple of
> times. Subversion is still
> in a pretty early stage of development. Dont get me wrong. Not in terms
> of funcionality but in terms of
> calling interface stability.
>
> >I do think it would be a good idea to have a set of current working java
> >client wrappers and builds for different platforms. I've been playing
> >around with svn for a while and I still haven't set up even a basic java
> >client, mainly because I haven't taken the time to learn swig yet. With
> >something ready to go I think more folks would get involved.
> >
> Yea. This was the reason why I did the manual glue/wrapper coding. But I
> didnt feel comfortable with it.
> Maybe I will find the time to learn swig during the next months so I
> will be able to contribute to such a
> set of wrappers/libraries.
>
> Alex
>
>
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de>.
Kevin Galligan wrote:
>I would tend to agree. I want to build a client in java, but I couldn't
>care less what was working under the hood. In fact, I doubt it would be
>used much. Yeah, I know, java rules, but hear me out. I doubt many people
>would install a java server version. If you ran an IT department and had to
>choose which one was developed better, which one would you pick? Not
>because java is good or bad; just the level of development and debugging
>effort.
>
This may be one of the point why .NET (or Mono) might be successful BIG
time. It doesnt force you to
rewrite everything (yeah, you do have the JNI, but it still is a pain in
the butt).
>I could see possibly a full java client that would talk to the server, but
>it might be a good idea to wait until the full platform has stabilized
>somewhat. Otherwise the java version would be playing catch-up as the main
>version changed.
>
During my manual coding of the JNI glue code I endured this a couple of
times. Subversion is still
in a pretty early stage of development. Dont get me wrong. Not in terms
of funcionality but in terms of
calling interface stability.
>I do think it would be a good idea to have a set of current working java
>client wrappers and builds for different platforms. I've been playing
>around with svn for a while and I still haven't set up even a basic java
>client, mainly because I haven't taken the time to learn swig yet. With
>something ready to go I think more folks would get involved.
>
Yea. This was the reason why I did the manual glue/wrapper coding. But I
didnt feel comfortable with it.
Maybe I will find the time to learn swig during the next months so I
will be able to contribute to such a
set of wrappers/libraries.
Alex
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Kevin Galligan <ga...@objice.com>.
I would tend to agree. I want to build a client in java, but I couldn't
care less what was working under the hood. In fact, I doubt it would be
used much. Yeah, I know, java rules, but hear me out. I doubt many people
would install a java server version. If you ran an IT department and had to
choose which one was developed better, which one would you pick? Not
because java is good or bad; just the level of development and debugging
effort.
I could see possibly a full java client that would talk to the server, but
it might be a good idea to wait until the full platform has stabilized
somewhat. Otherwise the java version would be playing catch-up as the main
version changed.
I do think it would be a good idea to have a set of current working java
client wrappers and builds for different platforms. I've been playing
around with svn for a while and I still haven't set up even a basic java
client, mainly because I haven't taken the time to learn swig yet. With
something ready to go I think more folks would get involved.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Stein" <gs...@lyra.org>
To: "Joaquin Salvachua" <js...@yahoo.es>
Cc: <de...@subversion.tigris.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Java Version
> On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:47:02PM +0200, Joaquin Salvachua wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I was thinking of a only java version. But, as you
> > mention, a JNI interface to some parts will speed up
> > the process. Later some reengineering and replacement
> > of blocks is possible.
>
> What would be the point of reengineering/replacing? Just so it can be in
> Java? IMO, that is a waste of time. But if you have that time, then please
> feel free :-)
>
> Instead, I think it is much better to have just a single implementation,
and
> then be able to call that from all the languages that people may want to
> use. That includes Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl, etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Greg "Why Do Java People Always Want to Rewrite the World?" Stein
>
> --
> Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
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>
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de>.
Greg Stein wrote:
>On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:47:02PM +0200, Joaquin Salvachua wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I was thinking of a only java version. But, as you
>>mention, a JNI interface to some parts will speed up
>>the process. Later some reengineering and replacement
>>of blocks is possible.
>>
>
>What would be the point of reengineering/replacing? Just so it can be in
>Java? IMO, that is a waste of time. But if you have that time, then please
>feel free :-)
>
>Instead, I think it is much better to have just a single implementation, and
>then be able to call that from all the languages that people may want to
>use. That includes Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl, etc.
>
>Cheers,
>
>-Greg "Why Do Java People Always Want to Rewrite the World?" Stein
>
Or, a quote from "The Pragmatic Programmer": The DRY principle. DO NOT
REPEAT YOURSELF.
Alex
Re: Java Version
Posted by Greg Stein <gs...@lyra.org>.
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 05:47:02PM +0200, Joaquin Salvachua wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I was thinking of a only java version. But, as you
> mention, a JNI interface to some parts will speed up
> the process. Later some reengineering and replacement
> of blocks is possible.
What would be the point of reengineering/replacing? Just so it can be in
Java? IMO, that is a waste of time. But if you have that time, then please
feel free :-)
Instead, I think it is much better to have just a single implementation, and
then be able to call that from all the languages that people may want to
use. That includes Java, Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl, etc.
Cheers,
-Greg "Why Do Java People Always Want to Rewrite the World?" Stein
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de>.
cmpilato@collab.net wrote:
>Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de> writes:
>
>>>So Is someone working on a full Java version of
>>>subversion?. I think that would possible to build
>>>using Jakarta infrastructure.
>>>
>>Hi! I am working on it for quite some time now. But I didnt have enough
>>time during the last two months....
>>
>
>I was under the impression that Joaquin was talking about Subversion
>as pure Java application -- no C code at all. Are you aiming for
>this, too, Alexander, and just doing the JNI glue code as a first
>step? Or did I misunderstand what Joaquin was talking about?
>
>
Yea. You are right. Ok. I think this topic has been discussed some time ago.
Too much trouble and re-inventing the wheel besides performance topics.
Misunderstanding was on my side.
Alex
Re: Java Version
Posted by Joaquin Salvachua <js...@yahoo.es>.
Hello,
I was thinking of a only java version. But, as you
mention, a JNI interface to some parts will speed up
the process. Later some reengineering and replacement
of blocks is possible.
I will check the interfaces and tell about it.
Joaquin
>
> > >So Is someone working on a full Java version of
> > >subversion?. I think that would possible to build
> > >using Jakarta infrastructure.
> > >
> > Hi! I am working on it for quite some time now.
> But I didnt have enough
> > time during the last two months....
>
> I was under the impression that Joaquin was talking
> about Subversion
> as pure Java application -- no C code at all. Are
> you aiming for
> this, too, Alexander, and just doing the JNI glue
> code as a first
> step? Or did I misunderstand what Joaquin was
> talking about?
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Re: Java Version
Posted by cm...@collab.net.
Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de> writes:
> >So Is someone working on a full Java version of
> >subversion?. I think that would possible to build
> >using Jakarta infrastructure.
> >
> Hi! I am working on it for quite some time now. But I didnt have enough
> time during the last two months....
I was under the impression that Joaquin was talking about Subversion
as pure Java application -- no C code at all. Are you aiming for
this, too, Alexander, and just doing the JNI glue code as a first
step? Or did I misunderstand what Joaquin was talking about?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Java Version
Posted by Kevin Galligan <ga...@objice.com>.
I've been looking into the java port myself, although with much less progress. I'm personally much more interested in a graphical client, or java based clients in general. I'd like to first build some ant tasks, move on to a simple netbeans vcs plugin, and possibly a full client with some powerful views of the repository.
I'm open to help out as well in setting up a solid java version.
As far as just using the jni, or building a full java version, I really don't care. Hopefully the interfaces Alexander was talking about would be good enough to allow plug and play of either.
I had an interesting idea yesterday about using mozilla as the client with some beefed up controls. This might help reuse when building a web-based view of the repository. Anyway...
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Mueller
To: Joaquin Salvachua ; dev@subversion.tigris.org
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Java Version
Joaquin Salvachua wrote:
Hello,I have just discover your project and I think that isa great idea. I was thinking on something similar tobuild CSCW repositories of documents and information,but haven't start it jet. So Is someone
working on a full Java version ofsubversion?. I think that would possible to buildusing Jakarta infrastructure.
Hi! I am working on it for quite some time now. But I didnt have enough time during the last two months....
If you are interested in it take a look at the stuff in subversion/bindings/java/jni. This is the latest code I checked it.
The link between Java and subversion is built using the Java Native Interface. All of the code has been hand
coded till now. The next things to do:
a.. move to automated glue code generation using SWIG
b.. write Java wrapper classes that hide the glue code (ugly names and so on)
c.. implement the latest subversion calling interface (a lot of stuff changed during the last months)
I offers myself to try to do java port. Since I am associated professor at Madrid Technicaluniversity I can offer students to collaborate on itfor their Master Thesis. RegardsJoaquin -----
------------------------------------------------------Joaquin Salvachua tel: +34 91 549 57 00 x.367Associated Professor +34 91 549 57 62 x.367dpt. TelematicaE.T.S.I. TelecomunicacionCiudad Univer
sitar
ia S/N fax: +34 91 336 73 33E-28040 MADRID SPAINmailto: jsalvachua@dit.upm.es //htt
p://www.dit.upm.es/~jsr------------------------------------------------------------_______________________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! MessengerComunicació
;n instantánea gratis con tu gente.http://messenger.yahoo.es---------------------------------------------------------------------To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.orgFor additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subv
ersio
n.tigris.org
-- Mit freundlichen Grüssen aus RavensburgAlexander Mueller=========================================================ingenieurbuero Alexander Mueller & Egon Maurerunt
ere breite strasse 1588212 ravensburgtelefon: 0751/55 777 65telefax: 0751/55 777 67email: alexander.mueller@littleblue.deweb: www.littleblue.de
Re: Java Version
Posted by Alexander Mueller <al...@littleblue.de>.
Joaquin Salvachua wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I have just discover your project and I think that is
>a great idea. I was thinking on something similar to
>build CSCW repositories of documents and information,
>but haven?t start it jet.
>
>So Is someone working on a full Java version of
>subversion?. I think that would possible to build
>using Jakarta infrastructure.
>
Hi! I am working on it for quite some time now. But I didnt have enough
time during the last two months....
If you are interested in it take a look at the stuff in
subversion/bindings/java/jni. This is the latest code I checked it.
The link between Java and subversion is built using the Java Native
Interface. All of the code has been hand
coded till now. The next things to do:
* move to automated glue code generation using SWIG
* write Java wrapper classes that hide the glue code (ugly names and
so on)
* implement the latest subversion calling interface (a lot of stuff
changed during the last months)
>
>
>I offers myself to try to do java port.
>
>Since I am associated professor at Madrid Technical
>university I can offer students to collaborate on it
>for their Master Thesis.
>
>Regards
>
>Joaquin
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Joaquin Salvachua tel: +34 91 549 57 00
>x.367
>Associated Professor +34 91 549 57 62
>x.367
>dpt. Telematica
>E.T.S.I. Telecomunicacion
>Ciudad Universitaria S/N fax: +34 91 336 73 33
>E-28040 MADRID SPAIN
>
>mailto: jsalvachua@dit.upm.es //
>http://www.dit.upm.es/~jsr
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Messenger
>Comunicación instantánea gratis con tu gente.
>http://messenger.yahoo.es
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@subversion.tigris.org
>For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@subversion.tigris.org
>
>
--
Mit freundlichen Grüssen aus Ravensburg
Alexander Mueller
=========================================================
ingenieurbuero Alexander Mueller & Egon Maurer
untere breite strasse 15
88212 ravensburg
telefon: 0751/55 777 65
telefax: 0751/55 777 67
email: alexander.mueller@littleblue.de
web: www.littleblue.de