Re: Kill Marvin the bot

[sebb <se...@gmail.com>]

A related comment:

if there are to be any other mail-bots, please can they use a name
that is unlikely to be confused with human, particularly an ASF
member?

On 30 September 2015 at 16:03, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> On 09/30/2015 10:33 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>
>> What I liked is that Marvin had 1 job: send reminders. As a general
>> rule of thumb, I dislike large monolithic platforms because they
>> become much too unwieldy, hence my "hesitation" in folding
>> it into Whimsy. But it is obvious that that position is no
>> longer tenable, esp when even when Marvin does its job correctly,
>> it gets "blamed" for "incorrect" postings and instead of fixing
>> what exists, people decide to recreate the wheel... But, after
>> all, if that's what people wish to do, who am I to get in the
>> way :)
>
>
> It is a matter of perspective.  I have taken occasion to look at Marvin and
> what I didn't like is that what I saw was a large monolithic script.  By
> contrast, what whimsy has become is a collection of tools, with common code
> factored out into libraries.
>
> Add to that the fact that I couldn't see a way to run Marvin on my machine
> and I couldn't find any tests, and I largely stayed away.
>
> I see this as mostly a matter of history.  The secretarial workbench (one of
> the whimsy applications) is largely the same way.  Other than being able to
> run it on your own machine (or VM), it is also monolithic and with no tests.
>
> By contrast, what the board agenda tool has become is a set of components
> and small scripts, each focused on a single task, and with tests. The role
> call application that Craig uses is for all practical purposes a separate
> application that is embedded in the board agenda.  I have similar plans for
> the roster tool: the "add a committer to a PMC" tool will be small
> component.
>
> Similarly, I hope that sending reminders becomes a small (as in one printed
> page) script that doesn't do anything more than check the date, load a list
> of intended recipients, and send a emails.  Everything else is factored out,
> and the underlying data (PMCs, podlings, etc) can be displayed and updated
> using a web application.  Backed and supported by a set of people who are
> able to run the small scripts on their machine, make changes, run tests, and
> push the changes out to production.
>
> It will take time, but if I can get people to join me, I'm confident that
> together we will get there.
>
> "You may say I'm a dreamer
> But I'm not the only one
> I hope some day you'll join us
> And the world will be as one"
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
>>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 09/30/2015 09:24 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Please kill Marvin the bot. Sam wants to take over its functionality
>>>> within Whimsy and I see no reason to continue any work at all in
>>>> Marvin. People prefer adding stuff to Whimsy instead of fixing
>>>> Marvin, which is fine by me.
>>>>
>>>> So just trash Marvin totally and completely... I will no
>>>> longer work on it or bother with it at all.
>>>
>>>
>>> First, a big thanks for maintaining Marvin to this point!  I'm aware of
>>> how thankless that job can be, and how it often involves taking
>>> responsibility for fixing things that are outside your control.
>>>
>>> - - -
>>>
>>> Second: Gulp.  The biggest "problem" with Marvin the bot is that it has
>>> (had?) one primary maintainer.  A problem that Whimsy shares.
>>>
>>> I plan to address that problem.
>>>
>>> For the near term, my focus will be on making it possible for people to
>>> run individual whimsy tools on their own machine (Mac OS/X, Linux, docker
>>> container, Vagrant VM) so that people can try out changes before
>>> contributing them back.
>>>
>>> With respect to the incubator, what I would like to see is podlings
>>> integrated into both the roster[1] and agenda[2] tools.
>>>
>>> I'm currently rewriting the roster tool to take advantage of things I
>>> learned with the latest agenda rewrite.  The goal is to make the roster tool
>>> totally read/write: there will no longer be a need to ssh into
>>> people.apache.org to run a Perl script to update committee info. Everything
>>> should be doable from a web interface.
>>>
>>> What this also means is that cron jobs will tend to be small scripts.
>>> Take a list of items (a list which you can see using the web interface, for
>>> example, a list of board agenda items which are missing) and perform an
>>> action (like send an email).
>>>
>>> When this is done there should never again be a need to edit podlings.xml
>>> with a text editor.
>>>
>>> I'm also planning to take the following to heart: http://s.apache.org/hZ
>>>
>>> As applied to the incubator, what I plan to do is to rough in podling
>>> support and leave it to others to fill in the details.
>>>
>>> - - -
>>>
>>> Places to get started (in preferred order):
>>>
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/README
>>>
>>> https://github.com/rubys/whimsy-agenda#readme
>>>
>>>
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/www/test/roster
>>>
>>> Preferred place for discussion:
>>>
>>> dev@whimsical.apache.org
>>>
>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>
>>> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/
>>> [2] https://whimsy.apache.org/board/agenda/
>>
>>
>

Re: Kill Marvin the bot

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

Some history: Of course, when Marvin-the-bot was started
(can't recall who the orig author was at this point), it was
named after Marvin from Hitchhikers Guide.

> On Oct 4, 2015, at 7:43 AM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> A related comment:
> 
> if there are to be any other mail-bots, please can they use a name
> that is unlikely to be confused with human, particularly an ASF
> member?
> 
> On 30 September 2015 at 16:03, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>> On 09/30/2015 10:33 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>> 
>>> What I liked is that Marvin had 1 job: send reminders. As a general
>>> rule of thumb, I dislike large monolithic platforms because they
>>> become much too unwieldy, hence my "hesitation" in folding
>>> it into Whimsy. But it is obvious that that position is no
>>> longer tenable, esp when even when Marvin does its job correctly,
>>> it gets "blamed" for "incorrect" postings and instead of fixing
>>> what exists, people decide to recreate the wheel... But, after
>>> all, if that's what people wish to do, who am I to get in the
>>> way :)
>> 
>> 
>> It is a matter of perspective.  I have taken occasion to look at Marvin and
>> what I didn't like is that what I saw was a large monolithic script.  By
>> contrast, what whimsy has become is a collection of tools, with common code
>> factored out into libraries.
>> 
>> Add to that the fact that I couldn't see a way to run Marvin on my machine
>> and I couldn't find any tests, and I largely stayed away.
>> 
>> I see this as mostly a matter of history.  The secretarial workbench (one of
>> the whimsy applications) is largely the same way.  Other than being able to
>> run it on your own machine (or VM), it is also monolithic and with no tests.
>> 
>> By contrast, what the board agenda tool has become is a set of components
>> and small scripts, each focused on a single task, and with tests. The role
>> call application that Craig uses is for all practical purposes a separate
>> application that is embedded in the board agenda.  I have similar plans for
>> the roster tool: the "add a committer to a PMC" tool will be small
>> component.
>> 
>> Similarly, I hope that sending reminders becomes a small (as in one printed
>> page) script that doesn't do anything more than check the date, load a list
>> of intended recipients, and send a emails.  Everything else is factored out,
>> and the underlying data (PMCs, podlings, etc) can be displayed and updated
>> using a web application.  Backed and supported by a set of people who are
>> able to run the small scripts on their machine, make changes, run tests, and
>> push the changes out to production.
>> 
>> It will take time, but if I can get people to join me, I'm confident that
>> together we will get there.
>> 
>> "You may say I'm a dreamer
>> But I'm not the only one
>> I hope some day you'll join us
>> And the world will be as one"
>> 
>> - Sam Ruby
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> On 09/30/2015 09:24 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please kill Marvin the bot. Sam wants to take over its functionality
>>>>> within Whimsy and I see no reason to continue any work at all in
>>>>> Marvin. People prefer adding stuff to Whimsy instead of fixing
>>>>> Marvin, which is fine by me.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So just trash Marvin totally and completely... I will no
>>>>> longer work on it or bother with it at all.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> First, a big thanks for maintaining Marvin to this point!  I'm aware of
>>>> how thankless that job can be, and how it often involves taking
>>>> responsibility for fixing things that are outside your control.
>>>> 
>>>> - - -
>>>> 
>>>> Second: Gulp.  The biggest "problem" with Marvin the bot is that it has
>>>> (had?) one primary maintainer.  A problem that Whimsy shares.
>>>> 
>>>> I plan to address that problem.
>>>> 
>>>> For the near term, my focus will be on making it possible for people to
>>>> run individual whimsy tools on their own machine (Mac OS/X, Linux, docker
>>>> container, Vagrant VM) so that people can try out changes before
>>>> contributing them back.
>>>> 
>>>> With respect to the incubator, what I would like to see is podlings
>>>> integrated into both the roster[1] and agenda[2] tools.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm currently rewriting the roster tool to take advantage of things I
>>>> learned with the latest agenda rewrite.  The goal is to make the roster tool
>>>> totally read/write: there will no longer be a need to ssh into
>>>> people.apache.org to run a Perl script to update committee info. Everything
>>>> should be doable from a web interface.
>>>> 
>>>> What this also means is that cron jobs will tend to be small scripts.
>>>> Take a list of items (a list which you can see using the web interface, for
>>>> example, a list of board agenda items which are missing) and perform an
>>>> action (like send an email).
>>>> 
>>>> When this is done there should never again be a need to edit podlings.xml
>>>> with a text editor.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm also planning to take the following to heart: http://s.apache.org/hZ
>>>> 
>>>> As applied to the incubator, what I plan to do is to rough in podling
>>>> support and leave it to others to fill in the details.
>>>> 
>>>> - - -
>>>> 
>>>> Places to get started (in preferred order):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/README
>>>> 
>>>> https://github.com/rubys/whimsy-agenda#readme
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/www/test/roster
>>>> 
>>>> Preferred place for discussion:
>>>> 
>>>> dev@whimsical.apache.org
>>>> 
>>>> - Sam Ruby
>>>> 
>>>> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/
>>>> [2] https://whimsy.apache.org/board/agenda/
>>> 
>>> 
>> 

Re: Kill Marvin the bot

[Greg Stein <gs...@gmail.com>]

haha.... yeah. I always have to do a double-take to differentiate
Marvin-bot from Marvin Humphrey. LOL...

On Sun, Oct 4, 2015 at 6:43 AM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:

> A related comment:
>
> if there are to be any other mail-bots, please can they use a name
> that is unlikely to be confused with human, particularly an ASF
> member?
>
> On 30 September 2015 at 16:03, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> > On 09/30/2015 10:33 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >>
> >> What I liked is that Marvin had 1 job: send reminders. As a general
> >> rule of thumb, I dislike large monolithic platforms because they
> >> become much too unwieldy, hence my "hesitation" in folding
> >> it into Whimsy. But it is obvious that that position is no
> >> longer tenable, esp when even when Marvin does its job correctly,
> >> it gets "blamed" for "incorrect" postings and instead of fixing
> >> what exists, people decide to recreate the wheel... But, after
> >> all, if that's what people wish to do, who am I to get in the
> >> way :)
> >
> >
> > It is a matter of perspective.  I have taken occasion to look at Marvin
> and
> > what I didn't like is that what I saw was a large monolithic script.  By
> > contrast, what whimsy has become is a collection of tools, with common
> code
> > factored out into libraries.
> >
> > Add to that the fact that I couldn't see a way to run Marvin on my
> machine
> > and I couldn't find any tests, and I largely stayed away.
> >
> > I see this as mostly a matter of history.  The secretarial workbench
> (one of
> > the whimsy applications) is largely the same way.  Other than being able
> to
> > run it on your own machine (or VM), it is also monolithic and with no
> tests.
> >
> > By contrast, what the board agenda tool has become is a set of components
> > and small scripts, each focused on a single task, and with tests. The
> role
> > call application that Craig uses is for all practical purposes a separate
> > application that is embedded in the board agenda.  I have similar plans
> for
> > the roster tool: the "add a committer to a PMC" tool will be small
> > component.
> >
> > Similarly, I hope that sending reminders becomes a small (as in one
> printed
> > page) script that doesn't do anything more than check the date, load a
> list
> > of intended recipients, and send a emails.  Everything else is factored
> out,
> > and the underlying data (PMCs, podlings, etc) can be displayed and
> updated
> > using a web application.  Backed and supported by a set of people who are
> > able to run the small scripts on their machine, make changes, run tests,
> and
> > push the changes out to production.
> >
> > It will take time, but if I can get people to join me, I'm confident that
> > together we will get there.
> >
> > "You may say I'm a dreamer
> > But I'm not the only one
> > I hope some day you'll join us
> > And the world will be as one"
> >
> > - Sam Ruby
> >
> >
> >>> On Sep 30, 2015, at 10:14 AM, Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> On 09/30/2015 09:24 AM, Jim Jagielski wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Please kill Marvin the bot. Sam wants to take over its functionality
> >>>> within Whimsy and I see no reason to continue any work at all in
> >>>> Marvin. People prefer adding stuff to Whimsy instead of fixing
> >>>> Marvin, which is fine by me.
> >>>>
> >>>> So just trash Marvin totally and completely... I will no
> >>>> longer work on it or bother with it at all.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> First, a big thanks for maintaining Marvin to this point!  I'm aware of
> >>> how thankless that job can be, and how it often involves taking
> >>> responsibility for fixing things that are outside your control.
> >>>
> >>> - - -
> >>>
> >>> Second: Gulp.  The biggest "problem" with Marvin the bot is that it has
> >>> (had?) one primary maintainer.  A problem that Whimsy shares.
> >>>
> >>> I plan to address that problem.
> >>>
> >>> For the near term, my focus will be on making it possible for people to
> >>> run individual whimsy tools on their own machine (Mac OS/X, Linux,
> docker
> >>> container, Vagrant VM) so that people can try out changes before
> >>> contributing them back.
> >>>
> >>> With respect to the incubator, what I would like to see is podlings
> >>> integrated into both the roster[1] and agenda[2] tools.
> >>>
> >>> I'm currently rewriting the roster tool to take advantage of things I
> >>> learned with the latest agenda rewrite.  The goal is to make the
> roster tool
> >>> totally read/write: there will no longer be a need to ssh into
> >>> people.apache.org to run a Perl script to update committee info.
> Everything
> >>> should be doable from a web interface.
> >>>
> >>> What this also means is that cron jobs will tend to be small scripts.
> >>> Take a list of items (a list which you can see using the web
> interface, for
> >>> example, a list of board agenda items which are missing) and perform an
> >>> action (like send an email).
> >>>
> >>> When this is done there should never again be a need to edit
> podlings.xml
> >>> with a text editor.
> >>>
> >>> I'm also planning to take the following to heart:
> http://s.apache.org/hZ
> >>>
> >>> As applied to the incubator, what I plan to do is to rough in podling
> >>> support and leave it to others to fill in the details.
> >>>
> >>> - - -
> >>>
> >>> Places to get started (in preferred order):
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/README
> >>>
> >>> https://github.com/rubys/whimsy-agenda#readme
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/infra/infrastructure/trunk/projects/whimsy/www/test/roster
> >>>
> >>> Preferred place for discussion:
> >>>
> >>> dev@whimsical.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> - Sam Ruby
> >>>
> >>> [1] https://whimsy.apache.org/roster/
> >>> [2] https://whimsy.apache.org/board/agenda/
> >>
> >>
> >
>