You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org> on 2002/11/21 19:55:17 UTC
New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Sorry for the lag...I finally got some quality time with an IMac and IE 5.x.
http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/
(Be sure to hit shift-reload to clear your caches!!!)
I've looked at it in Netscape 4.7, lynx, links (all look the same as
before -- like 1995), Mozilla 1.2b Linux/Windows, Mozilla 1.0
Mac/Windows, IE 5.5 Windows, Phoenix 0.4 Windows, Konqueror 3.0 Linux,
and IE 6 Windows. Results range from very good (Mozilla, Phoenix, IE 6)
to "acceptable" (Konqueror -- cuts widths slightly, and Mac IE 5 --
doesn't recognize background images in elements).
Note: I've noticed that in Konqueror 3.0, if the tab bar has more than
two tabs, the background image to the nav extends into the content.
This is due to the noticeably smaller default font size in Konqueror on
my box as compared to other browsers. I don't know if this was just my
setup (I only ever use Konqueror to check pages for compatibility) or
seen by others -- in which case I wonder about the health of their eyes.
Unfortunately, I don't how to fix Konqueror without breaking a more
popular browser. Ideas?
Also, I found the browser hiding techniques URL I had asked about a
couple of weeks ago:
http://pixels.pixelpark.com/%7Ekoch/hide_css_from_browsers/summary/
As always, please give it a shot with your favorite browsers and submit
screenshots if possible.
Thanks
- Miles
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
As a side note, those with access to Mozilla 1.2b, click on
"Show/Hide"->"Site Navigation Bar" and choose either "Show Always" or
"Show Only As Needed"
Hit reload on the Forrest mockup.
For a documentation site, this can really come in handy. As a bonus,
it's a W3C link specifier defined years ago and not proprietary. As
clients become more advanced, you will start to see this feature in
greater frequency. I hear there are already some clients and spiders
that use it for intelligent resource gathering.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/links.html#h-12.3
- Miles
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Miles Elam wrote:
> It should work fine now.
Yup.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Miles Elam wrote:
>
> > Sorry for the lag...I finally got some quality time with an IMac and
> > IE 5.x.
>
> I like your idea of quality time.
Bah. I need to get a life. ;-)
> minor nit: when I switch to nav on right using Mozilla 1.1 on W2K, the
> nav neatly moves to the opposite side, but leaving a gaping white
> margin where it was previously. Isn't the idea that the body text gets
> reflowed across the entire page width (minus the right navbar width)
> then?
As a matter of fact it is. It was. I think I may have stumbled upon a
Mozilla CSS declaration override bug. I specified padding-left to be
ten pixels but it wasn't doing it. I had to specify it as !important to
get it to listen. Off to bugzilla I go.
It should work fine now.
- Miles
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Miles Elam wrote:
> Sorry for the lag...I finally got some quality time with an IMac and
> IE 5.x.
I like your idea of quality time. Looking good and all (but you knew
that already ;) - minor nit: when I switch to nav on right using Mozilla
1.1 on W2K, the nav neatly moves to the opposite side, but leaving a
gaping white margin where it was previously. Isn't the idea that the
body text gets reflowed across the entire page width (minus the right
navbar width) then?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Miles Elam wrote:
> Sorry for the lag...I finally got some quality time with an IMac and IE
> 5.x.
>
> http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/
Miles' brilliant work with CSS brings the issue back of how these
CSS-referenced images will be processed by the Cocoon crawler, since it
won't go into the CSS file, let alone recognize image references.
Duh - how are we going to tackle this one?
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Markus Vaterlaus <mv...@mus.ch>.
>Markus Vaterlaus wrote:
>
>> attached you'll find some screenshots taken here witrh Mac OS X and
>> different browsers. If you need anything else, plz let me know.
>
>Thanks. I'm going to look at some Omniweb hacks that I can use for
>damage control. Curious behavior: it supports background images on
>elements, but not the positioning of that background. It also includes
>the nav in the main document flow even though it is specified as
>"position: absolute". Most curious...
>
>---- 20 minutes later ----
>
>Okay, I've done some research on its capabilities. The following URL
>has a pretty good rundown of its abilities:
>http://macedition.com/cb/resources/macbrowsercsssupport.html
>
>I am inclined to entirely hide CSS from it much like is already done for
>Netscape 4-. I don't think with that laundry list of CSS defects that I
>could get a reasonably good page rendering in it using just XHTML and CSS.
>
>Comments?
Hi Miles, hi list,
I don't have access to the logs of a live server, but as far as I
know, Omniweb and iCab are very very rarely used, I guess they will
be far below 1%. iCab might be a bit ahead, because it's longer on
the market. There is quite a lot of other browsers not mentioned till
now, what about them? In my opinion, it will be best, to provide
these at first with a very simple stylesheet covering only the
uppermost necessary. Later stylesheets for these can be added in
accending order. However as an first step I think, we should go for
the big ones: IE, Mozilla and Opera (not so big...)
Maybe the following site might be of any help for you figuring out
which browser are available and used
<http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/index.htm> .
>---- 30 minutes later ----
>
>I have posted the screenshots to my server.
>
>http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_omniweb.jpg
>http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_mozilla.jpg
>http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_opera.pdf
>http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_ie.pdf
Looks quite familliar to me ;-)
>The Mac IE 5 comes out fine (It should considering the amount of
>time I spent on it last night). The Mozilla one looks fine. A
>really nice thing about Mozilla is that it really does render the
>same on all platforms (minus platform font size differences and form
>widgets).
>
>The Opera screenshot has me a little concerned. I don't have Opera
>and I don't have easy access to Macs. Can anyone out there lend a
>hand with development in this case? Or is Opera like Mozilla in
>that it is very consistent across platforms and I could just fix it
>in Windows and have it fixed on the Mac by association?
Actually I don't know much about page rendering done by Opera on the
Mac and the differencies to other plattforms. But I can offer you to
check the pages (as done) and to tweak little stuff.
>Markus: what version of Opera were you using?
Opera V.5 (I think V.6 is in beta, will check that tomorrow)
--mv
>Downloading Opera for Windows now...
>
>- Miles
--
**************************************
Unglaublich, aber wahr: Dilbert lebt!
**************************************
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
Miles Elam wrote:
> The Opera screenshot has me a little concerned. I don't have Opera
> and I don't have easy access to Macs. Can anyone out there lend a
> hand with development in this case? Or is Opera like Mozilla in that
> it is very consistent across platforms and I could just fix it in
> Windows and have it fixed on the Mac by association?
The Windows version or Opera 6.x doesn't have that mangled search box.
:-/ No cross-development possible for me here. In other news, the
beta of Opera 7 looks worse: the tabs stack up instead of lining up in a
row and 80% of the content disappears. Time to contact the Opera
developers...
V6 is a nice browser though. Loads very quickly. The fact that v7 beta
allows you to switch stylesheets like Mozilla/Netscape 6+ bodes well. I
just hope they wait to fix a few things before releasing it.
- Miles
Re: New CSS mockup -- Mac IE 5.x friendly
Posted by Miles Elam <mi...@geekspeak.org>.
Markus Vaterlaus wrote:
> attached you'll find some screenshots taken here witrh Mac OS X and
> different browsers. If you need anything else, plz let me know.
Thanks. I'm going to look at some Omniweb hacks that I can use for
damage control. Curious behavior: it supports background images on
elements, but not the positioning of that background. It also includes
the nav in the main document flow even though it is specified as
"position: absolute". Most curious...
---- 20 minutes later ----
Okay, I've done some research on its capabilities. The following URL
has a pretty good rundown of its abilities:
http://macedition.com/cb/resources/macbrowsercsssupport.html
I am inclined to entirely hide CSS from it much like is already done for
Netscape 4-. I don't think with that laundry list of CSS defects that I
could get a reasonably good page rendering in it using just XHTML and CSS.
Comments?
---- 30 minutes later ----
I have posted the screenshots to my server.
http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_omniweb.jpg
http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_mozilla.jpg
http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_opera.pdf
http://forrest.iguanacharlie.com/screenshots/20021121/mac_ie.pdf
The Mac IE 5 comes out fine (It should considering the amount of time I
spent on it last night). The Mozilla one looks fine. A really nice
thing about Mozilla is that it really does render the same on all
platforms (minus platform font size differences and form widgets).
The Opera screenshot has me a little concerned. I don't have Opera and
I don't have easy access to Macs. Can anyone out there lend a hand with
development in this case? Or is Opera like Mozilla in that it is very
consistent across platforms and I could just fix it in Windows and have
it fixed on the Mac by association?
Markus: what version of Opera were you using?
Downloading Opera for Windows now...
- Miles