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Posted to dev@struts.apache.org by phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu> on 2009/12/30 02:29:08 UTC

New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Musachy (and anyone else interested):

I've added several pages to the new Struts 2 documentation wiki: 
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/S2NewDocDraft/Home.  I've copied
over many of the pages from the current wiki: 
http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WW/Home and tried to update them.

But now I'm not sure where to go next on this project and could use some
guidance/feedback.

The next area I'd like to work on for the new documentation is to improve
the Tutorials section of the documentation.  I think the Ready, Set, Go
tutorial could use some work.  I'd like to improve the Ready, Set, Go
tutorials by writing up instructions for how to create a Struts 2 web
application using Maven and how to create a Struts 2 web application by
manually managing the artifacts Struts 2 requires and using Ant for
building/deploying the web application.

Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
(which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to create a
tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).

For the Struts 2 web application built using Ant, I'd would give the user
detailed instructions about which jars must be on the web application's
class path (WEB-INF/lib) so the user clearly know which jar files to copy
from the download.  Again, I would have a complete minimal starter
application that the user could download and build using Ant and deploy to a
Servlet container like Tomcat or Jetty.

These two starter examples (Maven and Ant) could then be expanded upon in
the other tutorials such as HelloWorld, Using Tags, Coding Actions, etc. 
For each separate tutorial I would provide a finished Maven and Ant version
the reader could download to run/review on his/her own computer.  

As part of improving these tutorials I could ensure the many suggestions in
the comments on some of the tutorials are incorporated into the new
versions.

I realize I'm setting myself up for some work, so before I start this, I'd
like to get your opinion if this work is a good idea and would be useful for
new Struts 2 users or if the current tutorials are good enough to just copy
over to the new documentation wiki.  If you agree that redoing the tutorials
with Maven and Ant examples that users can download would be a good idea,
then where do you recommend we host the tutorials?  I'm happy to put them on
one of my servers if that is appropriate.

Thanks for the guidance.

Bruce Phillips
http://www.brucephillips.name/blog

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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@googlemail.com>.
2009/12/31 phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>:
>   Based on comments in the current Ready, Set, Go tutorial about the Struts
> 2 blank archetype and also that the archetype is not consistently available
> in the central repository, I think a beginner tutorial that shows a user how
> to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to manage the artifact
> dependencies would be very beneficial to people new to Struts 2.
>
>   Also having a Struts 2 Maven beginner's tutorial lets us build on that
> project for the other tutorials (e.g. Hello World, Using Tags, etc).  I'd
> like to see us have downloads (a Maven version and an Ant version) for those
> other tutorials.  So someone learning Struts 2 can read through our
> tutorials and download a complete example for each tutorial.
>
>   I think Struts 2 is a great web application framework and having easy to
> follow tutorials with complete examples readers can download helps us
> introduce Struts 2 to new users.  For someone new to Struts 2, the Struts 2
> Maven archetypes don't do that.  You have to already know Struts 2 to
> understand how to adapt the Struts 2 Maven archetypes to your specific
> project.  The Struts 2 Maven archetypes are good for experienced Struts 2
> developers who want to get a quick setup for a specific project (e.g Struts
> 2 portlet application).  Beginners need more hand-holding (e.g. here are the
> dependencies you need in pom.xml, struts.xml must be on the class path so
> put it in src/main/resources).

You are right, I was convinced, I forgot that not everybody is using Maven ;-)
I offer help as a tester.


Regards
-- 
Lukasz
http://www.lenart.org.pl/

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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by Wes Wannemacher <we...@wantii.com>.
[snip]
>>> 2009/12/30 phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>:
>>>> Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
>>>> (which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to
>>>> create a
>>>> tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
>>>> manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
>>>> struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
>>>> application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
>>>> project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
>>>> unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
>>>> host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).

Bruce, host it over on GoogleCode. It takes roughly 4.76 seconds to
setup a project over there and you'll have an SVN repository
instantly. You can check-in a zip, or just check-in the source...
Personally, I would consider creating the project in Eclipse, Netbeans
and IDEA, then checking each project in, individually. That way, for
people that want to do this from scratch, they can have working source
for whichever IDE they want to use. In fact, you might even be able to
create a maven project, then run `mvn eclipse:eclipse` | `mvn
idea:idea` | whatever so that the project structure stays consistent,
but leave it up to the various maven plugins to generate the
IDE-specific configuration files.

However you do it, it is better than nothing :) But, using google code
will let you tinker with it as time passes (and new versions of IDEs
are released).

-Wes

-- 
Wes Wannemacher

Head Engineer, WanTii, Inc.
Need Training? Struts, Spring, Maven, Tomcat...
Ask me for a quote!

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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
I understand what you are saying and as I said previously I agree with
it. As for myself i always like to setup things by hand at least once
so I understand better how everything is related. From your tutorial
you can always link to the archetypes so anyone familiar with maven
and who doesn't want to go step by step can jump start. That should
not create any confusion I think.

musachy

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:02 PM, phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> Lukasz:
>
>   I appreciate your concern about not confusing users between the tutorials
> that use Maven and the Struts 2 Maven blank and other archetypes.
>
>   I think the Struts 2 blank Maven archetype is useful for experienced
> Struts 2 developers who use Maven.  But I don't think the Struts 2 Maven
> archetypes are useful for someone new to Struts 2.
>
>   Based on comments in the current Ready, Set, Go tutorial about the Struts
> 2 blank archetype and also that the archetype is not consistently available
> in the central repository, I think a beginner tutorial that shows a user how
> to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to manage the artifact
> dependencies would be very beneficial to people new to Struts 2.
>
>   Also having a Struts 2 Maven beginner's tutorial lets us build on that
> project for the other tutorials (e.g. Hello World, Using Tags, etc).  I'd
> like to see us have downloads (a Maven version and an Ant version) for those
> other tutorials.  So someone learning Struts 2 can read through our
> tutorials and download a complete example for each tutorial.
>
>   I think Struts 2 is a great web application framework and having easy to
> follow tutorials with complete examples readers can download helps us
> introduce Struts 2 to new users.  For someone new to Struts 2, the Struts 2
> Maven archetypes don't do that.  You have to already know Struts 2 to
> understand how to adapt the Struts 2 Maven archetypes to your specific
> project.  The Struts 2 Maven archetypes are good for experienced Struts 2
> developers who want to get a quick setup for a specific project (e.g Struts
> 2 portlet application).  Beginners need more hand-holding (e.g. here are the
> dependencies you need in pom.xml, struts.xml must be on the class path so
> put it in src/main/resources).
>
>   That said, I'll defer to the opinion of the majority of people on this
> list who are interested in the Struts 2 documentation online.  Many of you
> have much more experience then I do in introducing Struts 2 to new users.
> So I'd appreciate it if others could provide some feedback on this proposal.
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> Lukasz Lenart wrote:
>>
>> 2009/12/30 phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>:
>>> Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
>>> (which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to
>>> create a
>>> tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
>>> manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
>>> struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
>>> application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
>>> project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
>>> unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
>>> host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).
>>
>> I'm not sure regarding that part - it will duplicate what archetypes
>> are created for - it can be helpful for someone who don't know Maven
>> convention. We should push forward voting of archetypes - Christmas
>> time isn't the best time for any work ;-)
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> --
>> Lukasz
>> http://www.lenart.org.pl/
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/New-Struts-2-Documentation-Wiki---Next-Step-Improving-Tutorials-tp26962935p26973316.html
> Sent from the Struts - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>.
Lukasz:

   I appreciate your concern about not confusing users between the tutorials
that use Maven and the Struts 2 Maven blank and other archetypes.  

   I think the Struts 2 blank Maven archetype is useful for experienced
Struts 2 developers who use Maven.  But I don't think the Struts 2 Maven
archetypes are useful for someone new to Struts 2.

   Based on comments in the current Ready, Set, Go tutorial about the Struts
2 blank archetype and also that the archetype is not consistently available
in the central repository, I think a beginner tutorial that shows a user how
to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to manage the artifact
dependencies would be very beneficial to people new to Struts 2.

   Also having a Struts 2 Maven beginner's tutorial lets us build on that
project for the other tutorials (e.g. Hello World, Using Tags, etc).  I'd
like to see us have downloads (a Maven version and an Ant version) for those
other tutorials.  So someone learning Struts 2 can read through our
tutorials and download a complete example for each tutorial.  

   I think Struts 2 is a great web application framework and having easy to
follow tutorials with complete examples readers can download helps us
introduce Struts 2 to new users.  For someone new to Struts 2, the Struts 2
Maven archetypes don't do that.  You have to already know Struts 2 to
understand how to adapt the Struts 2 Maven archetypes to your specific
project.  The Struts 2 Maven archetypes are good for experienced Struts 2
developers who want to get a quick setup for a specific project (e.g Struts
2 portlet application).  Beginners need more hand-holding (e.g. here are the
dependencies you need in pom.xml, struts.xml must be on the class path so
put it in src/main/resources).

   That said, I'll defer to the opinion of the majority of people on this
list who are interested in the Struts 2 documentation online.  Many of you
have much more experience then I do in introducing Struts 2 to new users. 
So I'd appreciate it if others could provide some feedback on this proposal.

Bruce



Lukasz Lenart wrote:
> 
> 2009/12/30 phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>:
>> Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
>> (which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to
>> create a
>> tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
>> manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
>> struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
>> application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
>> project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
>> unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
>> host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).
> 
> I'm not sure regarding that part - it will duplicate what archetypes
> are created for - it can be helpful for someone who don't know Maven
> convention. We should push forward voting of archetypes - Christmas
> time isn't the best time for any work ;-)
> 
> 
> Regards
> -- 
> Lukasz
> http://www.lenart.org.pl/
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
> 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/New-Struts-2-Documentation-Wiki---Next-Step-Improving-Tutorials-tp26962935p26973316.html
Sent from the Struts - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by Lukasz Lenart <lu...@googlemail.com>.
2009/12/30 phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu>:
> Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
> (which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to create a
> tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
> manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
> struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
> application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
> project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
> unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
> host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).

I'm not sure regarding that part - it will duplicate what archetypes
are created for - it can be helpful for someone who don't know Maven
convention. We should push forward voting of archetypes - Christmas
time isn't the best time for any work ;-)


Regards
-- 
Lukasz
http://www.lenart.org.pl/

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Re: New Struts 2 Documentation Wiki - Next Step Improving Tutorials

Posted by Musachy Barroso <mu...@gmail.com>.
that sounds good to me. the archetypes are being voted  for release.

thanks for the help Bruce
musachy

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:29 PM, phillips1021 <bp...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> Musachy (and anyone else interested):
>
> I've added several pages to the new Struts 2 documentation wiki:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/S2NewDocDraft/Home.  I've copied
> over many of the pages from the current wiki:
> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/WW/Home and tried to update them.
>
> But now I'm not sure where to go next on this project and could use some
> guidance/feedback.
>
> The next area I'd like to work on for the new documentation is to improve
> the Tutorials section of the documentation.  I think the Ready, Set, Go
> tutorial could use some work.  I'd like to improve the Ready, Set, Go
> tutorials by writing up instructions for how to create a Struts 2 web
> application using Maven and how to create a Struts 2 web application by
> manually managing the artifacts Struts 2 requires and using Ant for
> building/deploying the web application.
>
> Instead of just referring the user to the Maven Struts 2 blank archetype
> (which isn't available for 2.1.8.1 last time I checked) I'd like to create a
> tutorial for how to setup a Struts 2 web application that uses Maven to
> manage artifact dependencies (what to put in the pom.xml, where to put
> struts.xml, how to include/configure Jetty to run the Struts 2 web
> application).  As part of the tutorial I'd like to have a zipped Maven
> project with these minimal configurations that the reader could download,
> unzip, and import into their own Maven-aware IDE.  I'm not sure where to
> host this zipped Maven project (I'm willing to put it on my own server).
>
> For the Struts 2 web application built using Ant, I'd would give the user
> detailed instructions about which jars must be on the web application's
> class path (WEB-INF/lib) so the user clearly know which jar files to copy
> from the download.  Again, I would have a complete minimal starter
> application that the user could download and build using Ant and deploy to a
> Servlet container like Tomcat or Jetty.
>
> These two starter examples (Maven and Ant) could then be expanded upon in
> the other tutorials such as HelloWorld, Using Tags, Coding Actions, etc.
> For each separate tutorial I would provide a finished Maven and Ant version
> the reader could download to run/review on his/her own computer.
>
> As part of improving these tutorials I could ensure the many suggestions in
> the comments on some of the tutorials are incorporated into the new
> versions.
>
> I realize I'm setting myself up for some work, so before I start this, I'd
> like to get your opinion if this work is a good idea and would be useful for
> new Struts 2 users or if the current tutorials are good enough to just copy
> over to the new documentation wiki.  If you agree that redoing the tutorials
> with Maven and Ant examples that users can download would be a good idea,
> then where do you recommend we host the tutorials?  I'm happy to put them on
> one of my servers if that is appropriate.
>
> Thanks for the guidance.
>
> Bruce Phillips
> http://www.brucephillips.name/blog
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/New-Struts-2-Documentation-Wiki---Next-Step-Improving-Tutorials-tp26962935p26962935.html
> Sent from the Struts - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@struts.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@struts.apache.org
>
>

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