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Posted to dev@tapestry.apache.org by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com> on 2010/04/29 20:59:41 UTC
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:57:58 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> TranslatorSource2?
OverridableTranslatorSource? ImprovedTranslatorSource?
TranslatorSourceOverride?
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>.
I'd like to retract my earlier comment. I wasn't thinking straight...
we're talking about 5.2 which is not the stable release yet. I'd
rather have to modify that line of code than have a policy of
incrementing version numbers for every little change in an interface.
Sorry for the distraction.
Josh
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:20:49 -0300, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> A change regarding how translators are contributed wouldn't
>>> be an issue, I guess. Few lines of code would need to be changed.
>>
>> While I agree that it is a small issue to fix for most developers,
>> it's still a bullet point on the "tapestry versions aren't backward
>> compatible" list. If you're on a project with any tapestry doubters it
>> will add to the difficulty in getting more projects done with
>> Tapestry.
>
> I agree, but that's a very different scale. Tapestry 5 was 100% incompatible
> with T4, and we're talking about a small change. As Howard said, there are
> situations that keeping perfect backward compatibility while still improving
> the framework is impossible.
>
> By the way, in the mailing list, there were people complaining that T5
> wasn't compatible with T4 and other people complaining that T5 will be
> always backward compatible, so it won't evolve and then it will die
> (http://old.nabble.com/Tapestry-6%3A-Famous-last-words--to24225398s302.html#a24230166),
> and that wasn't a troll. Perfect backward compatibility isn't a good
> trade-off, IMHO.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 15:20:49 -0300, Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> A change regarding how translators are contributed wouldn't
>> be an issue, I guess. Few lines of code would need to be changed.
>
> While I agree that it is a small issue to fix for most developers,
> it's still a bullet point on the "tapestry versions aren't backward
> compatible" list. If you're on a project with any tapestry doubters it
> will add to the difficulty in getting more projects done with
> Tapestry.
I agree, but that's a very different scale. Tapestry 5 was 100%
incompatible with T4, and we're talking about a small change. As Howard
said, there are situations that keeping perfect backward compatibility
while still improving the framework is impossible.
By the way, in the mailing list, there were people complaining that T5
wasn't compatible with T4 and other people complaining that T5 will be
always backward compatible, so it won't evolve and then it will die
(http://old.nabble.com/Tapestry-6%3A-Famous-last-words--to24225398s302.html#a24230166),
and that wasn't a troll. Perfect backward compatibility isn't a good
trade-off, IMHO.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Josh Canfield <jo...@gmail.com>.
> A change regarding how translators are contributed wouldn't
> be an issue, I guess. Few lines of code would need to be changed.
While I agree that it is a small issue to fix for most developers,
it's still a bullet point on the "tapestry versions aren't backward
compatible" list. If you're on a project with any tapestry doubters it
will add to the difficulty in getting more projects done with
Tapestry.
Josh
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:38:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think it's a balancing act: perfect backwards compatibility means
>> leaving a long-lasting mess behind just to be compatible with features
>> that almost nobody uses ... but I tend to lean a bit towards "make it
>> right' vs. "make it compatible".
>
> IMHO, the compatibility that must be kept in Tapestry is features that are
> used in page and component classes, as they comprise most of an web tier
> implementation. A change regarding how translators are contributed wouldn't
> be an issue, I guess. Few lines of code would need to be changed.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
--
http://www.bodylabgym.com - a private, by appointment only, one-on-one
health and fitness facility.
--
http://www.ectransition.com - Quality Electronic Cigarettes at a
reasonable price!
--
TheDailyTube.com. Sign up and get the best new videos on the internet
delivered fresh to your inbox.
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 11:38:21 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I think it's a balancing act: perfect backwards compatibility means
> leaving a long-lasting mess behind just to be compatible with features
> that almost nobody uses ... but I tend to lean a bit towards "make it
> right' vs. "make it compatible".
IMHO, the compatibility that must be kept in Tapestry is features that are
used in page and component classes, as they comprise most of an web tier
implementation. A change regarding how translators are contributed
wouldn't be an issue, I guess. Few lines of code would need to be changed.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
I think it's a balancing act: perfect backwards compatibility means
leaving a long-lasting mess behind just to be compatible with features
that almost nobody uses ... but I tend to lean a bit towards "make it
right' vs. "make it compatible".
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Igor Drobiazko
> <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You never know. My apps have own Translators but it is not a big deal to fix
>> the incompatibility in my apps.
>
> Right, it shouldn't be a big deal to fix it...
>
> --
> Massimo
> http://meridio.blogspot.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Igor Drobiazko
<ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You never know. My apps have own Translators but it is not a big deal to fix
> the incompatibility in my apps.
Right, it shouldn't be a big deal to fix it...
--
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
You never know. My apps have own Translators but it is not a big deal to fix
the incompatibility in my apps.
But what I had in mind is the inconsistency between several services. I
guess there are less (if any) applications providing their own
implementation of Asset interface, but there is Asset2. Contributing to
TranslatorSource is a much common task for an app developer, but there is no
TranslatorSource2. This inconsistency confuses me and will confuse app
developers even more.
I remember the discussion about extending interfaces and I was not happy
about the MyService2, MyService3, etc naming. It feels like API polution.
Now you seem to hate it also. :)
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>wrote:
> How many apps/libraries have contributed their own Translator, I wonder?
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:30:17 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
> > <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The name TranslatorSource2 is consistent with Asset2, ServiceDef2, etc.
> >> but OverridableTranslatorSource sounds much better. :)
> >
> > What I had in mind wasn't something that would replace TranslatorSource,
> but
> > that would be used by it. Instead of changing TranslatorSourceImpl to
> deal
> > with overrides itself, it would just ask OverridableTranslatorSource what
> > are the overrides and then act accordingly.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
> and
> > instructor
> > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> > http://www.arsmachina.com.br
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de/blog
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Dmitry Gusev <dm...@gmail.com>.
I have two apps contributing TranslatorSource (one is in production in T5.1
and isn't planned to be updated to T5.2 and another is in production running
T5.2-SNAPSHOT):
public static void
contributeTranslatorSource(Configuration<Translator<Date>> configuration)
{
configuration.add(new TimeTranslator());
}
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 01:37, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many apps/libraries have contributed their own Translator, I wonder?
>
> On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> <th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:30:17 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
> > <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The name TranslatorSource2 is consistent with Asset2, ServiceDef2, etc.
> >> but OverridableTranslatorSource sounds much better. :)
> >
> > What I had in mind wasn't something that would replace TranslatorSource,
> but
> > that would be used by it. Instead of changing TranslatorSourceImpl to
> deal
> > with overrides itself, it would just ask OverridableTranslatorSource what
> > are the overrides and then act accordingly.
> >
> > --
> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
> and
> > instructor
> > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> > http://www.arsmachina.com.br
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Dmitry Gusev
AnjLab Team
http://anjlab.com
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Massimo Lusetti <ml...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many apps/libraries have contributed their own Translator, I wonder?
If memory serve Chenillekit does not any, maybe one in the
autocomplete from prototype_ui ...
--
Massimo
http://meridio.blogspot.com
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Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>.
How many apps/libraries have contributed their own Translator, I wonder?
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<th...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:30:17 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
> <ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The name TranslatorSource2 is consistent with Asset2, ServiceDef2, etc.
>> but OverridableTranslatorSource sounds much better. :)
>
> What I had in mind wasn't something that would replace TranslatorSource, but
> that would be used by it. Instead of changing TranslatorSourceImpl to deal
> with overrides itself, it would just ask OverridableTranslatorSource what
> are the overrides and then act accordingly.
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Creator of Apache Tapestry
The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <th...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:30:17 -0300, Igor Drobiazko
<ig...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The name TranslatorSource2 is consistent with Asset2, ServiceDef2, etc.
> but OverridableTranslatorSource sounds much better. :)
What I had in mind wasn't something that would replace TranslatorSource,
but that would be used by it. Instead of changing TranslatorSourceImpl to
deal with overrides itself, it would just ask OverridableTranslatorSource
what are the overrides and then act accordingly.
--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
Re: svn commit: r939357 - in /tapestry/tapestry5/trunk: src/site/apt/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/internal/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/java/org/apache/tapestry5/services/
tapestry-core/src/main/resources/org/apache/tapestry5
Posted by Igor Drobiazko <ig...@gmail.com>.
The name TranslatorSource2 is consistent with Asset2, ServiceDef2, etc. but
OverridableTranslatorSource sounds much better. :)
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo <
thiagohp@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 15:57:58 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship <hl...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> TranslatorSource2?
>>
>
> OverridableTranslatorSource? ImprovedTranslatorSource?
> TranslatorSourceOverride?
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,
> and instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@tapestry.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@tapestry.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards,
Igor Drobiazko
http://tapestry5.de/blog