Re: exit strategy was Plans for the upcoming 2/14 soft deadline

[David Graham <dg...@hotmail.com>]

Ted,
I agree with you but want to add the item Craig and I discussed earlier 
regarding the standard actions throwing exceptions instead of sending error 
codes to the user.

We need a small requirements list for 1.2 and ship it when we've completed 
those items.  I don't want to relive the lengthy 1.1 cycle and the *many* 
new features (and bugs) introduced.

David



>From: Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>
>Reply-To: "Struts Developers List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>To: Struts Developers List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>Subject: Re: exit strategy was  Plans for the upcoming 2/14 soft deadline
>Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:34:34 -0500
>
>I made a pass on Bugzilla, and we seem to be down to three tickets.
>
>http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/proposals/release-plan-1.1b3.html
>
>Two seem module related and the third relates to the nested taglib. All 
>three indicate incorrect behavior. I'd call these three our remaining 
>showstoppers, unless another committer says otherwise.
>
>For 1.2, I'd like to concentrate on applying the patches we already have 
>waiting in the LATER bin, do the Commons Resource migration, fix any early 
>1.1 bug reports, and call it a release. Anything the least bit new or 
>controversial could be tagged for 1.3/2.x. Gotta get the momentum up =:0)
>
>-T.
>
>Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>>If I can say ....
>>Please consider releasing nightly build (w/o EL) very, very soon, as a 
>>RC1;
>>+ plus a note of the know bugs.
>>(I know it's not ideal, but it's an *exit* strategy).
>>As soon as the bugs are fixed, release.
>>Of course if something *new* shows up in RC1, then have RC2.
>>
>>At this point I would rather have 1.1a if something new shows up; other
>>Jakarta projects have.
>>
>>
>>Note: I plant to try to take basicPortal.com to Jakarta incubator, very
>>soon, coments welcome.
>>
>>And if anyone wants to contribute to an online class (people only pay
>>"WebEx" charges), coming up very soon.
>>
>>vc at  basebeans.com
>>
>>Then my 1.2 wishlist (Craig?)
>>-  HTML-el
>>-  ship with JSTL (Maven?)
>>- deprecate templates
>>- deprecate (means will be gone after 2.0) beans tag (so people can use 
>>core
>>tag)
>>- split struts jar in 2. One for tags(and nested), one for rest. (So one 
>>day
>>Struts could move most it's tags to jakarta.taglibs. Thus people can 
>>render
>>anyway they want, ex: Faces tag)
>>- include simple version of Scafolding BaseAction (w/ default disptach) 
>>and
>>BaseFormBean (w/ beantuils to copy multirow) - This hints people in a good
>>direction.
>>- better tiles and login example (Container based security)
>>- filters? listeners?
>>- please include struts-menu by S. Skyles (in strutstags.jar), it is 
>>popular
>>as any tag and singe point for navigations.
>>- faces "extension"
>>- multi row example app in contrib ?
>>- master/detail example app in contrib ?
>>- Servlet 2.3
>>(be glad to do half of any of above)
>>
>>Past 2.0 wish list:
>>- Axis controller
>>- Commons-SQL or Castor  (or RowSet) example app w/Struts.
>>- DAO interface/factory (in Commons?)
>>- Deprecate most tags (let people use taglibs for render,or Velocity, or
>>faces....) but support JSP 2.0 in this release (HTML-EL, Faces, Tiles,
>>Validator only; no logic, etc. support)
>>- XML "generator". Have you used JasperReports? "He" create an XML file 
>>that
>>"compiles" to something else. So if we create a XML file (with bands?) 
>>that
>>"compiles" to JSP and struts.config, ,etc.? Then others can write XML
>>generators for any output. Of course, base extension classes behind.
>>- JDK1.4 required
>>- Servlet 2.4
>>- There were a lot of 2.0 ideas.... I can't recall them.
>>
>>It is more exciting past 1.1.
>>
>>.V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>"Ted Husted" <hu...@apache.org> wrote in message
>>news:3E3FB33C.2030800@apache.org...
>>
>>>I would agree with Craig that dates are good motivators for cutting
>>>betas, but to cut a Release Candidate, logically, we need to be
>>>release-ready. The objective release-ready test is what shows up in
>>>Bugzilla. So, someone has to either fix or defer (in good conscious) any
>>>outstanding tickets.
>>>
>>>As for the Release Plan, we can continue to amend the B3 page. When
>>>we're ready for R1, make the final revisions and re-post it under a new
>>>name. Since everything should be done by then, the freeze date can be
>>>set for +(72 hours), to coincide with the close of the vote.
>>>
>>>At this point, I just don't have any more blood to shed for 1.1. If we
>>>can't get this thing out the door in February, then we should look for
>>>some more comitters who can.
>>>
>>>Either way, come March, I say it's time to get a fresh,
>>>test-first-design start on 2.x. A year of FUD is more than enough.
>>>
>>>-Ted.
>>>
>>>Martin Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>>>Ted had suggested that we resolve the outstanding items first, and then
>>>>put together a release plan, complete with tag date. See:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=struts-dev@jakarta.apa
>>che.org&msgId=612913
>>
>>>>However, I don't believe that's working. In fact, as I believe Ted
>>>
>>himself
>>
>>>>said of the 1.1-b3 drive, having a date to aim for is a better
>>>
>>motivator.
>>
>>>>Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, I don't have much time to help
>>>
>>kill
>>
>>>>outstanding bug reports for RC1, due to current "day job" pressures.
>>>
>>It'd
>>
>>>>be great to see an RC1 on or around Feb 14th, and I can do the RM thing,
>>>>but I'm going to have to rely on others of you to get us ready for that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Also, what is the status of the idea of separating the contrib 
>>>>>libraries
>>>>>out of the release?  I'm not certain what the result was of any vote on
>>>>>this, but I had the impression there wasn't enough response to make a
>>>>>decision.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>IMO, Struts-EL should stay put until we get Struts 1.1 out the door.
>>>
>>After
>>
>>>>that, we can discuss how to incorporate contrib code into the release as
>>>>part of a broader discussion of how to factor distributions.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Martin Cooper
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ted Husted,
>>>Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Ted Husted,
>Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
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Re: exit strategy was Plans for the upcoming 2/14 soft deadline

[Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>]

Sure. Put in a ticket and link it the post-mortem list.

I'm thinking for 1.2 we can start by moving whatever we want to work on 
from LATER to active again, doing the deed, and marked them resolved again.

I would not be in favor of anything that even smells like a 
"requirements list".

As soon as we have something worth releasing, we should start the 
release cycle. Personally, post 1.1, I'd like to consider monthly betas, 
and then promoting a beta to a release candidate whenever one seems 
solid enough.

If we had been doing that last year, we could have gotten some very 
handy taglib changes into production a year ago Christmas, before we got 
started on the module/validator/tiles cycles. (And each of those should 
also have been a release unto itself.)

We simply don't have the resources to pick a feature set in advance. We 
need to go with what we got as soon as we got it. Anything less is a 
disservice to our community.

We also need to start decoupling the components of the current 
distribution. Again, we don't have the resources to coordinate 
everything with everything else. We need to be able to change something, 
confirm that it works with the legacy production code, and get it out 
there where people can use it.

If, for example, Tiles is unstable become of some new work, we can't let 
that hold up a release of Struts EL, or whatever else. There will be 
questions of which release of what works with what, but that's a just a 
documentation issue. As it stands, we have to face the fact that we have 
serious production issues, which, like security, trumps.

-Ted.


David Graham wrote:
> Ted,
> I agree with you but want to add the item Craig and I discussed earlier 
> regarding the standard actions throwing exceptions instead of sending 
> error codes to the user.
> 
> We need a small requirements list for 1.2 and ship it when we've 
> completed those items.  I don't want to relive the lengthy 1.1 cycle and 
> the *many* new features (and bugs) introduced.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>
>> Reply-To: "Struts Developers List" <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> To: Struts Developers List <st...@jakarta.apache.org>
>> Subject: Re: exit strategy was  Plans for the upcoming 2/14 soft deadline
>> Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 13:34:34 -0500
>>
>> I made a pass on Bugzilla, and we seem to be down to three tickets.
>>
>> http://jakarta.apache.org/struts/proposals/release-plan-1.1b3.html
>>
>> Two seem module related and the third relates to the nested taglib. 
>> All three indicate incorrect behavior. I'd call these three our 
>> remaining showstoppers, unless another committer says otherwise.
>>
>> For 1.2, I'd like to concentrate on applying the patches we already 
>> have waiting in the LATER bin, do the Commons Resource migration, fix 
>> any early 1.1 bug reports, and call it a release. Anything the least 
>> bit new or controversial could be tagged for 1.3/2.x. Gotta get the 
>> momentum up =:0)
>>
>> -T.
>>
>> Vic Cekvenich wrote:
>>
>>> If I can say ....
>>> Please consider releasing nightly build (w/o EL) very, very soon, as 
>>> a RC1;
>>> + plus a note of the know bugs.
>>> (I know it's not ideal, but it's an *exit* strategy).
>>> As soon as the bugs are fixed, release.
>>> Of course if something *new* shows up in RC1, then have RC2.
>>>
>>> At this point I would rather have 1.1a if something new shows up; other
>>> Jakarta projects have.
>>>
>>>
>>> Note: I plant to try to take basicPortal.com to Jakarta incubator, very
>>> soon, coments welcome.
>>>
>>> And if anyone wants to contribute to an online class (people only pay
>>> "WebEx" charges), coming up very soon.
>>>
>>> vc at  basebeans.com
>>>
>>> Then my 1.2 wishlist (Craig?)
>>> -  HTML-el
>>> -  ship with JSTL (Maven?)
>>> - deprecate templates
>>> - deprecate (means will be gone after 2.0) beans tag (so people can 
>>> use core
>>> tag)
>>> - split struts jar in 2. One for tags(and nested), one for rest. (So 
>>> one day
>>> Struts could move most it's tags to jakarta.taglibs. Thus people can 
>>> render
>>> anyway they want, ex: Faces tag)
>>> - include simple version of Scafolding BaseAction (w/ default 
>>> disptach) and
>>> BaseFormBean (w/ beantuils to copy multirow) - This hints people in a 
>>> good
>>> direction.
>>> - better tiles and login example (Container based security)
>>> - filters? listeners?
>>> - please include struts-menu by S. Skyles (in strutstags.jar), it is 
>>> popular
>>> as any tag and singe point for navigations.
>>> - faces "extension"
>>> - multi row example app in contrib ?
>>> - master/detail example app in contrib ?
>>> - Servlet 2.3
>>> (be glad to do half of any of above)
>>>
>>> Past 2.0 wish list:
>>> - Axis controller
>>> - Commons-SQL or Castor  (or RowSet) example app w/Struts.
>>> - DAO interface/factory (in Commons?)
>>> - Deprecate most tags (let people use taglibs for render,or Velocity, or
>>> faces....) but support JSP 2.0 in this release (HTML-EL, Faces, Tiles,
>>> Validator only; no logic, etc. support)
>>> - XML "generator". Have you used JasperReports? "He" create an XML 
>>> file that
>>> "compiles" to something else. So if we create a XML file (with 
>>> bands?) that
>>> "compiles" to JSP and struts.config, ,etc.? Then others can write XML
>>> generators for any output. Of course, base extension classes behind.
>>> - JDK1.4 required
>>> - Servlet 2.4
>>> - There were a lot of 2.0 ideas.... I can't recall them.
>>>
>>> It is more exciting past 1.1.
>>>
>>> .V
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Ted Husted" <hu...@apache.org> wrote in message
>>> news:3E3FB33C.2030800@apache.org...
>>>
>>>> I would agree with Craig that dates are good motivators for cutting
>>>> betas, but to cut a Release Candidate, logically, we need to be
>>>> release-ready. The objective release-ready test is what shows up in
>>>> Bugzilla. So, someone has to either fix or defer (in good conscious) 
>>>> any
>>>> outstanding tickets.
>>>>
>>>> As for the Release Plan, we can continue to amend the B3 page. When
>>>> we're ready for R1, make the final revisions and re-post it under a new
>>>> name. Since everything should be done by then, the freeze date can be
>>>> set for +(72 hours), to coincide with the close of the vote.
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I just don't have any more blood to shed for 1.1. If we
>>>> can't get this thing out the door in February, then we should look for
>>>> some more comitters who can.
>>>>
>>>> Either way, come March, I say it's time to get a fresh,
>>>> test-first-design start on 2.x. A year of FUD is more than enough.
>>>>
>>>> -Ted.
>>>>
>>>> Martin Cooper wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ted had suggested that we resolve the outstanding items first, and 
>>>>> then
>>>>> put together a release plan, complete with tag date. See:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=struts-dev@jakarta.apa 
>>>
>>> che.org&msgId=612913
>>>
>>>>> However, I don't believe that's working. In fact, as I believe Ted
>>>>
>>>>
>>> himself
>>>
>>>>> said of the 1.1-b3 drive, having a date to aim for is a better
>>>>
>>>>
>>> motivator.
>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, as I mentioned before, I don't have much time to help
>>>>
>>>>
>>> kill
>>>
>>>>> outstanding bug reports for RC1, due to current "day job" pressures.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It'd
>>>
>>>>> be great to see an RC1 on or around Feb 14th, and I can do the RM 
>>>>> thing,
>>>>> but I'm going to have to rely on others of you to get us ready for 
>>>>> that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, what is the status of the idea of separating the contrib 
>>>>>> libraries
>>>>>> out of the release?  I'm not certain what the result was of any 
>>>>>> vote on
>>>>>> this, but I had the impression there wasn't enough response to make a
>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO, Struts-EL should stay put until we get Struts 1.1 out the door.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> After
>>>
>>>>> that, we can discuss how to incorporate contrib code into the 
>>>>> release as
>>>>> part of a broader discussion of how to factor distributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Martin Cooper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Ted Husted,
>>>> Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Ted Husted,
>> Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: struts-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: struts-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
> 
> 
> 
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> 


-- 
Ted Husted,
Struts in Action <http://husted.com/struts/book.html>


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