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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by "Joe Schaefer (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org> on 2009/08/17 04:38:14 UTC
[jira] Created: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
---------------------------------------------------------
Key: LEGAL-58
URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
Project: Legal Discuss
Issue Type: Question
Reporter: Joe Schaefer
The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
in their upcoming release:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
by any rational legal theory).
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Re: [jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <rd...@apache.org>.
Sam Ruby wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Joe Schaefer (JIRA) <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=m.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId781020#action_12781020 ]
>>
>> Joe Schaefer commented on LEGAL-58:
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Ping. If it isn't possible to grant a specific exception to the LGPL
>> policy for this use-case, perhaps we can do something more limited
>> like make the LGPL code go away as a precondition for graduation
>> instead of a first release?
>
> I'm OK with this....
>
> Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the
> OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which
> are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or
> distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
>
> If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform
> dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem
> with this.
+1
- robert
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Re: [jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
Posted by Ralph Goers <ra...@dslextreme.com>.
It would probably be better if you updated the Jira instead of replying here.
On Nov 22, 2009, at 6:44 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Joe Schaefer (JIRA) <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12781020#action_12781020 ]
>>
>> Joe Schaefer commented on LEGAL-58:
>> -----------------------------------
>>
>> Ping. If it isn't possible to grant a specific exception to the LGPL
>> policy for this use-case, perhaps we can do something more limited
>> like make the LGPL code go away as a precondition for graduation
>> instead of a first release?
>
> I'm OK with this....
>
> Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the
> OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which
> are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or
> distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
>
> If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform
> dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem
> with this.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
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Re: [jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 12:58 PM, Joe Schaefer (JIRA) <ji...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12781020#action_12781020 ]
>
> Joe Schaefer commented on LEGAL-58:
> -----------------------------------
>
> Ping. If it isn't possible to grant a specific exception to the LGPL
> policy for this use-case, perhaps we can do something more limited
> like make the LGPL code go away as a precondition for graduation
> instead of a first release?
I'm OK with this....
Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the
OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which
are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or
distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform
dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem
with this.
- Sam Ruby
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[jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Henri Yandell (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12786875#action_12786875 ]
Henri Yandell commented on LEGAL-58:
------------------------------------
Agreed.
How would you like to document this Sam?
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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Re: [jira] Resolved: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@intertwingly.net>.
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Philip M. Gollucci <pg...@p6m7g8.com> wrote:
> Sam Ruby (JIRA) wrote:
>>
>> [
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel
>> ]
>>
>> Sam Ruby resolved LEGAL-58.
>> ---------------------------
>>
>> Resolution: Fixed
>> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>>
>> I've updated resolved.html with my take. In the process, I noted that
>> Autotools wasn't listed, and I included it. Let me know if this causes any
>> concerns.
>
> You listed automake not autotools. You should probably cite autoconf,
> automake, libtool, and mkinstalldirs.sh.
Fixed. Thanks!
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C
> Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354
> VP Apache Infrastructure; Member, Apache Software Foundation
> Committer, FreeBSD Foundation
> Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc.
> Sr. System Admin, Ridecharge Inc.
>
> Work like you don't need the money,
> love like you'll never get hurt,
> and dance like nobody's watching.
>
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>
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Re: [jira] Resolved: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Philip M. Gollucci" <pg...@p6m7g8.com>.
Sam Ruby (JIRA) wrote:
> [ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
>
> Sam Ruby resolved LEGAL-58.
> ---------------------------
>
> Resolution: Fixed
> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>
> I've updated resolved.html with my take. In the process, I noted that Autotools wasn't listed, and I included it. Let me know if this causes any concerns.
You listed automake not autotools. You should probably cite autoconf,
automake, libtool, and mkinstalldirs.sh.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1024D/DB9B8C1C B90B FBC3 A3A1 C71A 8E70 3F8C 75B8 8FFB DB9B 8C1C
Philip M. Gollucci (pgollucci@p6m7g8.com) c: 703.336.9354
VP Apache Infrastructure; Member, Apache Software Foundation
Committer, FreeBSD Foundation
Consultant, P6M7G8 Inc.
Sr. System Admin, Ridecharge Inc.
Work like you don't need the money,
love like you'll never get hurt,
and dance like nobody's watching.
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[jira] Resolved: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Sam Ruby (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:all-tabpanel ]
Sam Ruby resolved LEGAL-58.
---------------------------
Resolution: Fixed
Assignee: Sam Ruby
I've updated resolved.html with my take. In the process, I noted that Autotools wasn't listed, and I included it. Let me know if this causes any concerns.
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
> Assignee: Sam Ruby
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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[jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Sam Ruby (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12781382#action_12781382 ]
Sam Ruby commented on LEGAL-58:
-------------------------------
I'm OK with this....
Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem with this.
Unless others see a problem I don't, this should be allowed, not until during incubation, but also after graduation.
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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[jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Joe Schaefer (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12781020#action_12781020 ]
Joe Schaefer commented on LEGAL-58:
-----------------------------------
Ping. If it isn't possible to grant a specific exception to the LGPL
policy for this use-case, perhaps we can do something more limited
like make the LGPL code go away as a precondition for graduation
instead of a first release?
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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[jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Sam Ruby (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12782187#action_12782187 ]
Sam Ruby commented on LEGAL-58:
-------------------------------
David: yes, it makes a difference.
Looking closer at both files in specific, I have no concerns about their usage.
Both have been around for years. Both are defacto standards in their respective communities. Both are under "library" or "lesser" licenses. And neither are customarily part of distributions of running code, unless such deliverables include source anyway.
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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[jira] Issue Comment Edited: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects
distribute build files that are LGPL?
Posted by "Sam Ruby (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12781382#action_12781382 ]
Sam Ruby edited comment on LEGAL-58 at 11/23/09 12:39 PM:
----------------------------------------------------------
I'm OK with this....
Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem with this.
Unless others see a problem I don't, this should be allowed, not only during incubation, but also after graduation.
was (Author: rubys):
I'm OK with this....
Recapping my understanding: All or part of Thrift is written in the OCaml language, and there are parts of the OCaml distribution which are licensed under the LGPL which are intended to be modified and/or distributed with OCaml sources, but are only used at build time.
If so, I'm comfortable treating this as a language/platform dependency, i.e., those who are OK with OCaml would not have a problem with this.
Unless others see a problem I don't, this should be allowed, not until during incubation, but also after graduation.
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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[jira] Commented: (LEGAL-58) Can Apache projects distribute build
files that are LGPL?
Posted by "David Reiss (JIRA)" <ji...@apache.org>.
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12782059#action_12782059 ]
David Reiss commented on LEGAL-58:
----------------------------------
OCamlMakefile is not part of the OCaml distribution. It is a third-party file that makes it easier to build projects written in OCaml. Does this change anything?
> Can Apache projects distribute build files that are LGPL?
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> Key: LEGAL-58
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-58
> Project: Legal Discuss
> Issue Type: Question
> Reporter: Joe Schaefer
>
> The Thrift project in the incubator has a few LGPL build files they'd like to distribute
> in their upcoming release:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/rb/setup.rb
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/thrift/trunk/lib/ocaml/OCamlMakefile (trust me it's LGPL).
> Any reason why they can't do it? I don't see how this would harm any
> of our downstream users (closed source distributors don't need to distribute
> the build files, just the artifacts they create, which aren't touched by LGPL
> by any rational legal theory).
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