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Posted to dev@hc.apache.org by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org> on 2006/03/10 14:33:01 UTC
Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Folks,
I think it is about time we revisited the decision on whether we want to
stay with Bugzilla or migrate to Jira for HttpComponents issue
tracking.
The support of Bugzilla has very much improved since we first considered
migration to Jira. Nonetheless, Bugzilla is still quite a nuisance when
it comes to administration. I find the perspective of renaming the
project entry from HttpClient to HttpComponents simply dreadful. Last
time around it took 5 months and an unpleasant squabble on the infra
mailing list in order to get Commons HttpClient component promoted to a
full-fledged project in Bugzilla. I personally do not want to go through
that exercise one more. Jira unlike Bugzlilla should have a more
granular access permission model and we should have a greater autonomy
in administering project related metadata.
Opinions?
Oleg
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Michael Becke <mb...@gmail.com>.
I would Agree with Roland. If we can manage to pull it off I would be
happy to move to JIRA.
Leaving the old BZ site in place with readonly issues should work as
well. I don't see too many people modifying old bugs.
Mike
On 3/11/06, Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roland Weber wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I don't have a problem with a complete move to JIRA.
> > It's just that I read through the xml-cocoon-dev list this
> > morning and realized how much effort that really is.
>
> The trouble is getting _anything_ changed to Bugzlilla involves as much
> work. And on top of that it usually involves begging someone on the
> infrastructure mailing list to finally start paying attention to the
> needs of some obscure and unimportant projects such as HttpClient. I
> have been through this <self-censored> a couple of times. It was not fun
>
> Oleg
>
>
> >
> > >> As far as I know Jira keeps original ids of issue reports imported from
> > >> BZ. So, this should not be a problem
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow that's pretty cool. So we could really delete the BZ project after
> > > the migration.
> >
> > The xml-cocoon-dev did not delete the BZ project, because there are
> > lots of external links pointing there. In particular, our mailing
> > list archive has plenty of messages with links to bugzilla, which
> > would become useless for the casual user. Advanced users will know
> > how to locate the corresponding bug ini JIRA instead, but casual
> > users sure won't.
> > xml-cocoon-dev did generate an additional comment for each of their
> > issues in bugzilla that would point users to the JIRA version of the
> > issue. And they did that via SQL directly in the database, to avoid
> > flooding their mailing list with spam. But there were still several
> > hundred JIRA mails during the transition, or at least that's what it
> > felt like when I was browsing the list.
> > It is quite an interesting read...
> >
> > "Shall we switch to Jira?"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112654862112798&w=4
> >
> > "Jira pros and cons" (the link I posted before)
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112667428311853&w=4
> >
> > "[VOTE] Move to Jira"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112902740728087&w=4
> >
> > "[VOTE] bugzilla issues cleanup"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112929316623578&w=4
> >
> > "[JIRA] Migration complete"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113015139632258&w=4
> >
> > "How much longer for the issue spamming?"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113024908324197&w=4
> >
> > "Would this show up in BugZilla???"
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113076686920172&w=4
> >
> >
> > No, I did not read all of these threads completely :-)
> > The later ones are dealing with the migration problems.
> >
> > It's also nice to notice that JIRA generates it's mails partially
> > based on the user's locale. But that might be fixed by now :-)
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&w=4&r=1&s=COCOON-1700&q=t
> > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113259856315999&w=4
> >
> >
> > cheers,
> > Roland
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 14:04 +0100, Roland Weber wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I don't have a problem with a complete move to JIRA.
> It's just that I read through the xml-cocoon-dev list this
> morning and realized how much effort that really is.
The trouble is getting _anything_ changed to Bugzlilla involves as much
work. And on top of that it usually involves begging someone on the
infrastructure mailing list to finally start paying attention to the
needs of some obscure and unimportant projects such as HttpClient. I
have been through this <self-censored> a couple of times. It was not fun
Oleg
>
> >> As far as I know Jira keeps original ids of issue reports imported from
> >> BZ. So, this should not be a problem
> >
> >
> > Wow that's pretty cool. So we could really delete the BZ project after
> > the migration.
>
> The xml-cocoon-dev did not delete the BZ project, because there are
> lots of external links pointing there. In particular, our mailing
> list archive has plenty of messages with links to bugzilla, which
> would become useless for the casual user. Advanced users will know
> how to locate the corresponding bug ini JIRA instead, but casual
> users sure won't.
> xml-cocoon-dev did generate an additional comment for each of their
> issues in bugzilla that would point users to the JIRA version of the
> issue. And they did that via SQL directly in the database, to avoid
> flooding their mailing list with spam. But there were still several
> hundred JIRA mails during the transition, or at least that's what it
> felt like when I was browsing the list.
> It is quite an interesting read...
>
> "Shall we switch to Jira?"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112654862112798&w=4
>
> "Jira pros and cons" (the link I posted before)
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112667428311853&w=4
>
> "[VOTE] Move to Jira"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112902740728087&w=4
>
> "[VOTE] bugzilla issues cleanup"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112929316623578&w=4
>
> "[JIRA] Migration complete"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113015139632258&w=4
>
> "How much longer for the issue spamming?"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113024908324197&w=4
>
> "Would this show up in BugZilla???"
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113076686920172&w=4
>
>
> No, I did not read all of these threads completely :-)
> The later ones are dealing with the migration problems.
>
> It's also nice to notice that JIRA generates it's mails partially
> based on the user's locale. But that might be fixed by now :-)
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&w=4&r=1&s=COCOON-1700&q=t
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113259856315999&w=4
>
>
> cheers,
> Roland
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: httpclient-dev-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: httpclient-dev-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Roland Weber <ht...@dubioso.net>.
Hi all,
I don't have a problem with a complete move to JIRA.
It's just that I read through the xml-cocoon-dev list this
morning and realized how much effort that really is.
>> As far as I know Jira keeps original ids of issue reports imported from
>> BZ. So, this should not be a problem
>
>
> Wow that's pretty cool. So we could really delete the BZ project after
> the migration.
The xml-cocoon-dev did not delete the BZ project, because there are
lots of external links pointing there. In particular, our mailing
list archive has plenty of messages with links to bugzilla, which
would become useless for the casual user. Advanced users will know
how to locate the corresponding bug ini JIRA instead, but casual
users sure won't.
xml-cocoon-dev did generate an additional comment for each of their
issues in bugzilla that would point users to the JIRA version of the
issue. And they did that via SQL directly in the database, to avoid
flooding their mailing list with spam. But there were still several
hundred JIRA mails during the transition, or at least that's what it
felt like when I was browsing the list.
It is quite an interesting read...
"Shall we switch to Jira?"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112654862112798&w=4
"Jira pros and cons" (the link I posted before)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112667428311853&w=4
"[VOTE] Move to Jira"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112902740728087&w=4
"[VOTE] bugzilla issues cleanup"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112929316623578&w=4
"[JIRA] Migration complete"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113015139632258&w=4
"How much longer for the issue spamming?"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113024908324197&w=4
"Would this show up in BugZilla???"
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113076686920172&w=4
No, I did not read all of these threads completely :-)
The later ones are dealing with the migration problems.
It's also nice to notice that JIRA generates it's mails partially
based on the user's locale. But that might be fixed by now :-)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&w=4&r=1&s=COCOON-1700&q=t
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=113259856315999&w=4
cheers,
Roland
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Ortwin Glück <od...@odi.ch>.
Oleg Kalnichevski wrote:
>>One more thing to think about: In past release notes we list all BZ IDs
>>of fixed issues. Moving to JIRA would render them invalid I guess.
>
>
> As far as I know Jira keeps original ids of issue reports imported from
> BZ. So, this should not be a problem
Wow that's pretty cool. So we could really delete the BZ project after
the migration.
>
>>Is
>>there a way to set the BZ to read-only mode?
>>
>
>
> Partially. A project in BZ can be marked as closed, which implies no new
> issues can be added, but one can still modify existing ones open prior
> to the project closure. This is something we will have to live with.
No need for this then.
> Oleg
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 12:55 +0100, Ortwin Glück wrote:
>
> Oleg Kalnichevski wrote:
> > Roland,
> >
> > I should have elaborated this a little more. Essentially we have three
> > options:
> >
> > (1) Keep BZ as an issue tracking system for JHC and JCHC. Work with the
> > infrastructure people to reorganize HttpClient project to fit our needs
> > (rename HttpClient project to HttpComponents, rename HttpCommon to
> > HttpCore, add missing modules and release milestones)
> >
> > (2) Wholesale move to JIRA. JCHC is just a another module in JHC project
> >
> > (3) Use BZ for JCHC. Use JIRA for JHC
> >
> > In my opinion the third option is the most problematic one. It is just a
> > matter of time until some users will end up reporting JCHC bugs in Jira
> > and JHC bugs in Bugzilla leaving us with a horrible mess on our hands.
> >
> > I am personally for the second option.
> >
> > Oleg
>
> One more thing to think about: In past release notes we list all BZ IDs
> of fixed issues. Moving to JIRA would render them invalid I guess.
As far as I know Jira keeps original ids of issue reports imported from
BZ. So, this should not be a problem
> Is
> there a way to set the BZ to read-only mode?
>
Partially. A project in BZ can be marked as closed, which implies no new
issues can be added, but one can still modify existing ones open prior
to the project closure. This is something we will have to live with.
Oleg
> Odi
>
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Ortwin Glück <od...@odi.ch>.
Oleg Kalnichevski wrote:
> Roland,
>
> I should have elaborated this a little more. Essentially we have three
> options:
>
> (1) Keep BZ as an issue tracking system for JHC and JCHC. Work with the
> infrastructure people to reorganize HttpClient project to fit our needs
> (rename HttpClient project to HttpComponents, rename HttpCommon to
> HttpCore, add missing modules and release milestones)
>
> (2) Wholesale move to JIRA. JCHC is just a another module in JHC project
>
> (3) Use BZ for JCHC. Use JIRA for JHC
>
> In my opinion the third option is the most problematic one. It is just a
> matter of time until some users will end up reporting JCHC bugs in Jira
> and JHC bugs in Bugzilla leaving us with a horrible mess on our hands.
>
> I am personally for the second option.
>
> Oleg
One more thing to think about: In past release notes we list all BZ IDs
of fixed issues. Moving to JIRA would render them invalid I guess. Is
there a way to set the BZ to read-only mode?
Odi
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Oleg Kalnichevski <ol...@apache.org>.
On Sat, 2006-03-11 at 10:25 +0100, Roland Weber wrote:
> Hi Oleg,
>
> since I'm missing first-hand experience with JIRA, I searched
> a little on the web. The direct comparisons seem to be rather
> in favor of JIRA.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.software.testing/browse_thread/thread/44fcaa771838eb5d/47a4b78f841d27a0?lnk=st&q=bugzilla+jira+-httpclient&rnum=9&hl=en#47a4b78f841d27a0
> http://marc2.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112667428311853&w=2
>
> I've also browsed through the xml-cocoon-dev list of last
> September to November. Migrating a bugzilla database to JIRA
> is quite some effort. But since you're not suggesting to
> migrate HttpClient, except maybe the handful of bugs opened
> for or assigned to 4.0, I guess we'd be fine with JIRA. The
> distinction between HttpClient and HttpComponents should
> be clear enough to not confuse users.
>
> cheers,
> Roland
>
Roland,
I should have elaborated this a little more. Essentially we have three
options:
(1) Keep BZ as an issue tracking system for JHC and JCHC. Work with the
infrastructure people to reorganize HttpClient project to fit our needs
(rename HttpClient project to HttpComponents, rename HttpCommon to
HttpCore, add missing modules and release milestones)
(2) Wholesale move to JIRA. JCHC is just a another module in JHC project
(3) Use BZ for JCHC. Use JIRA for JHC
In my opinion the third option is the most problematic one. It is just a
matter of time until some users will end up reporting JCHC bugs in Jira
and JHC bugs in Bugzilla leaving us with a horrible mess on our hands.
I am personally for the second option.
Oleg
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Roland Weber <ht...@dubioso.net>.
Hi Oleg,
since I'm missing first-hand experience with JIRA, I searched
a little on the web. The direct comparisons seem to be rather
in favor of JIRA.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.software.testing/browse_thread/thread/44fcaa771838eb5d/47a4b78f841d27a0?lnk=st&q=bugzilla+jira+-httpclient&rnum=9&hl=en#47a4b78f841d27a0
http://marc2.theaimsgroup.com/?l=xml-cocoon-dev&m=112667428311853&w=2
I've also browsed through the xml-cocoon-dev list of last
September to November. Migrating a bugzilla database to JIRA
is quite some effort. But since you're not suggesting to
migrate HttpClient, except maybe the handful of bugs opened
for or assigned to 4.0, I guess we'd be fine with JIRA. The
distinction between HttpClient and HttpComponents should
be clear enough to not confuse users.
cheers,
Roland
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Re: Bugzilla vs Jira revisited
Posted by Ortwin Glück <od...@odi.ch>.
Either make the move now or never. Although I am very happy with
Bugzilla, I can do with JIRA as well. I quite like JIRA's roadmap
feature. See
http://jira.jboss.com/jira/browse/EJBTHREE?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel
for example. But on the other hand JIRA has some problems with deep
linking as it keeps a user session. And JIRA may not be as intuitive to
use ('find issues' is strangely designed), but looks nicer. Also
Bugzilla's mail blabber is much cleaner than JIRA's.
my 0.02 CHF
Odi
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