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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Diwas Joshi <dj...@gmail.com> on 2015/03/15 22:23:03 UTC

[DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of
code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the
idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.

regards

RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Stephen Turner <St...@citrix.com>.
By the way, I don't know if people noticed the XenServer Docker preview last week: http://xenserver.org/blog.html?view=entry&id=85. We might be able to use some of that once it makes it into a release.

-- 
Stephen Turner


-----Original Message-----
From: Marcus [mailto:shadowsor@gmail.com] 
Sent: 19 March 2015 03:08
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

+1, I think trying to catch and keep up with all of the great tooling
existing for container scheduling is a losing battle. I'm not against implementing it as a hypervisor alongside lxc, but I'm not sure how much value people will find in that compared to the other advanced and purpose-built solutions out there, and to compete with those solutions would be a lot of work if you measure by the effort in those other projects.

I like the idea of focusing on making cloudstack an attractive place to host infrastructure for container environments. There have been community members having great success providing and selling container services within CloudStack infrastructure.

I do fear a bit that supporting it as a hypervisor will fracture the message a bit or misdirect people away from this option, but it can be overcome. If people see value in making it a top-tier hypervisor, I'm all for that, but my first choice would be to look for integration points with existing, mature technologies.
On Mar 18, 2015 5:57 PM, "Nux!" <nu...@li.nux.ro> wrote:

> +1 Pierre and Sebastien.
> We should make sure CoreOS & co run fine on ACS, then let people do 
> their thing using specific tools.
>
> Plus I wouldn't like Docker to run straight on shared bare metal 
> servers (hypervisors), they're not as secure as VMs.
>
> --
> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>
> Nux!
> www.nux.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pierre-Luc Dion" <pd...@cloudops.com>
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Sent: Thursday, 19 March, 2015 00:39:43
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack 
> > (
> CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>
> > I really like Sebastien concept of Container as workload because it 
> > could be used into an existing cloud without introducing a new 
> > hypervisor,
> also,
> > it might be possible to reuse current networking features of cloudstack.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Sebastien Goasguen 
> > <ru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Rohit Yadav 
> >> > <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Diwas,
> >> >
> >> > The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they 
> >> > are similar (containers). This of course would have some 
> >> > limitations wrt supporting various network models and disk 
> >> > operations such as taking snapshot and migrations across hosts.
> >> >
> >> > ((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
> >> > community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another 
> >> > interesting
> >> > project.))
> >> >
> >> > Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) 
> >> > will
> be,
> >> > assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone 
> >> > technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high 
> >> > level systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing 
> >> > to use are stable enough.
> >> >
> >> > While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way 
> >> > to do it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:
> >> >
> >> > - Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or 
> >> > maybe OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
> >> > - SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
> >> > - Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations 
> >> > such as
> -
> >> > upload/register template, create VMs using template.
> >> > - Console proxy support (if possible).
> >> >
> >> > Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out 
> >> > best way to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of 
> >> > the work is limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.
> >> >
> >> > For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see 
> >> > how plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation 
> >> > or see
> this
> >> > commit:
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd6
> 51b1d809811157
> >> >
> >>
> >> I understand why we you would like to do this, however I see Docker 
> >> as a ‘workload’. It is easy to setup in a VM or bare metal.
> >> The Docker ecosystem is booming and there are a ton of Docker 
> >> “orchestrator” being worked on. It seems to me it will be very
> difficult to
> >> keep up development of a proper docker management service in CloudStack.
> >>
> >> Personally, I’d rather see us put efforts in properly supporting 
> >> all the new Docker customized OS (making cloudstack templates for 
> >> them), fixing
> our
> >> cloudinit support and extending our API to create clusters of machines.
> >> That way it will be easy for CloudStack users to start a Docker 
> >> cluster
> and
> >> use their docker container orchestrator of choice.
> >>
> >> Very much like if you want to deploy Mesos or the like in 
> >> CloudStack, Docker orchestrators are really workloads in our clouds.
> >>
> >> Our strategy for Docker support should be to make it extremely easy 
> >> for folks to use Docker in CloudStack VMs. Do things like Docker 
> >> machine support, Docker swarm support etc….and if we want a tighter 
> >> integration
> we
> >> should look at the AWS ECS API and the GCE container engine API and
> extend
> >> our EC2/GCE bridges to support them.
> >>
> >> my 2 cts.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
> >> >> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google
> >> summer of
> >> >> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me 
> >> >> more
> about
> >> the
> >> >> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
> >> >>
> >> >> regards
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Rohit Yadav
> >> > Software Architect, ShapeBlue
> >> > M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
> >> > Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab PS. If you see any 
> >> > footer below, I did not add it :) Find out more about ShapeBlue 
> >> > and our range of CloudStack related
> >> services
> >> >
> >> > IaaS Cloud Design & Build<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> >> > CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<
> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> >> > CloudStack 
> >> > Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> >> > CloudStack Software Engineering<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> >> > CloudStack Infrastructure Support<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> >> > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> >> >
> >> > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
> >> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed.
> Any
> >> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do 
> >> not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related 
> >> companies. If
> you
> >> are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take 
> >> any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. 
> >> Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error.
> >> Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. 
> >> ShapeBlue Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and 
> >> is operated
> under
> >> license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is 
> >> a company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from 
> >> Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The 
> >> Republic
> of
> >> South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. 
> >> ShapeBlue
> is
> >> a registered trademark.
> >>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Marcus <sh...@gmail.com>.
+1, I think trying to catch and keep up with all of the great tooling
existing for container scheduling is a losing battle. I'm not against
implementing it as a hypervisor alongside lxc, but I'm not sure how much
value people will find in that compared to the other advanced and
purpose-built solutions out there, and to compete with those solutions
would be a lot of work if you measure by the effort in those other projects.

I like the idea of focusing on making cloudstack an attractive place to
host infrastructure for container environments. There have been community
members having great success providing and selling container services
within CloudStack infrastructure.

I do fear a bit that supporting it as a hypervisor will fracture the
message a bit or misdirect people away from this option, but it can be
overcome. If people see value in making it a top-tier hypervisor, I'm all
for that, but my first choice would be to look for integration points with
existing, mature technologies.
On Mar 18, 2015 5:57 PM, "Nux!" <nu...@li.nux.ro> wrote:

> +1 Pierre and Sebastien.
> We should make sure CoreOS & co run fine on ACS, then let people do their
> thing using specific tools.
>
> Plus I wouldn't like Docker to run straight on shared bare metal servers
> (hypervisors), they're not as secure as VMs.
>
> --
> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>
> Nux!
> www.nux.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pierre-Luc Dion" <pd...@cloudops.com>
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Sent: Thursday, 19 March, 2015 00:39:43
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack (
> CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>
> > I really like Sebastien concept of Container as workload because it could
> > be used into an existing cloud without introducing a new hypervisor,
> also,
> > it might be possible to reuse current networking features of cloudstack.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Diwas,
> >> >
> >> > The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they are
> >> > similar (containers). This of course would have some limitations wrt
> >> > supporting various network models and disk operations such as taking
> >> > snapshot and migrations across hosts.
> >> >
> >> > ((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
> >> > community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another interesting
> >> > project.))
> >> >
> >> > Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) will
> be,
> >> > assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone
> >> > technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high level
> >> > systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing to use are
> >> > stable enough.
> >> >
> >> > While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way to do
> >> > it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:
> >> >
> >> > - Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or maybe
> >> > OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
> >> > - SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
> >> > - Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations such as
> -
> >> > upload/register template, create VMs using template.
> >> > - Console proxy support (if possible).
> >> >
> >> > Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out best way
> >> > to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of the work is
> >> > limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.
> >> >
> >> > For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see how
> >> > plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation or see
> this
> >> > commit:
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd651b1d809811157
> >> >
> >>
> >> I understand why we you would like to do this, however I see Docker as a
> >> ‘workload’. It is easy to setup in a VM or bare metal.
> >> The Docker ecosystem is booming and there are a ton of Docker
> >> “orchestrator” being worked on. It seems to me it will be very
> difficult to
> >> keep up development of a proper docker management service in CloudStack.
> >>
> >> Personally, I’d rather see us put efforts in properly supporting all the
> >> new Docker customized OS (making cloudstack templates for them), fixing
> our
> >> cloudinit support and extending our API to create clusters of machines.
> >> That way it will be easy for CloudStack users to start a Docker cluster
> and
> >> use their docker container orchestrator of choice.
> >>
> >> Very much like if you want to deploy Mesos or the like in CloudStack,
> >> Docker orchestrators are really workloads in our clouds.
> >>
> >> Our strategy for Docker support should be to make it extremely easy for
> >> folks to use Docker in CloudStack VMs. Do things like Docker machine
> >> support, Docker swarm support etc….and if we want a tighter integration
> we
> >> should look at the AWS ECS API and the GCE container engine API and
> extend
> >> our EC2/GCE bridges to support them.
> >>
> >> my 2 cts.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
> >> >> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google
> >> summer of
> >> >> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more
> about
> >> the
> >> >> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
> >> >>
> >> >> regards
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Rohit Yadav
> >> > Software Architect, ShapeBlue
> >> > M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
> >> > Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab
> >> > PS. If you see any footer below, I did not add it :)
> >> > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related
> >> services
> >> >
> >> > IaaS Cloud Design & Build<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> >> > CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<
> http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> >> > CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> >> > CloudStack Software Engineering<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> >> > CloudStack Infrastructure Support<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> >> > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<
> >> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> >> >
> >> > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
> >> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed.
> Any
> >> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> >> necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If
> you
> >> are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any
> >> action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please
> >> contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error.
> >> Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue
> >> Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated
> under
> >> license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
> >> company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape
> >> Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic
> of
> >> South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue
> is
> >> a registered trademark.
> >>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Nux! <nu...@li.nux.ro>.
+1 Pierre and Sebastien.
We should make sure CoreOS & co run fine on ACS, then let people do their thing using specific tools.

Plus I wouldn't like Docker to run straight on shared bare metal servers (hypervisors), they're not as secure as VMs.

--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!

Nux!
www.nux.ro

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pierre-Luc Dion" <pd...@cloudops.com>
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, 19 March, 2015 00:39:43
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

> I really like Sebastien concept of Container as workload because it could
> be used into an existing cloud without introducing a new hypervisor, also,
> it might be possible to reuse current networking features of cloudstack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
>>
>> > On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Diwas,
>> >
>> > The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they are
>> > similar (containers). This of course would have some limitations wrt
>> > supporting various network models and disk operations such as taking
>> > snapshot and migrations across hosts.
>> >
>> > ((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
>> > community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another interesting
>> > project.))
>> >
>> > Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) will be,
>> > assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone
>> > technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high level
>> > systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing to use are
>> > stable enough.
>> >
>> > While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way to do
>> > it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:
>> >
>> > - Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or maybe
>> > OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
>> > - SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
>> > - Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations such as -
>> > upload/register template, create VMs using template.
>> > - Console proxy support (if possible).
>> >
>> > Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out best way
>> > to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of the work is
>> > limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.
>> >
>> > For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see how
>> > plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation or see this
>> > commit:
>> >
>> >
>> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd651b1d809811157
>> >
>>
>> I understand why we you would like to do this, however I see Docker as a
>> ‘workload’. It is easy to setup in a VM or bare metal.
>> The Docker ecosystem is booming and there are a ton of Docker
>> “orchestrator” being worked on. It seems to me it will be very difficult to
>> keep up development of a proper docker management service in CloudStack.
>>
>> Personally, I’d rather see us put efforts in properly supporting all the
>> new Docker customized OS (making cloudstack templates for them), fixing our
>> cloudinit support and extending our API to create clusters of machines.
>> That way it will be easy for CloudStack users to start a Docker cluster and
>> use their docker container orchestrator of choice.
>>
>> Very much like if you want to deploy Mesos or the like in CloudStack,
>> Docker orchestrators are really workloads in our clouds.
>>
>> Our strategy for Docker support should be to make it extremely easy for
>> folks to use Docker in CloudStack VMs. Do things like Docker machine
>> support, Docker swarm support etc….and if we want a tighter integration we
>> should look at the AWS ECS API and the GCE container engine API and extend
>> our EC2/GCE bridges to support them.
>>
>> my 2 cts.
>>
>> >
>> > On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
>> >> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
>> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google
>> summer of
>> >> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about
>> the
>> >> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
>> >>
>> >> regards
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Regards,
>> > Rohit Yadav
>> > Software Architect, ShapeBlue
>> > M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
>> > Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab
>> > PS. If you see any footer below, I did not add it :)
>> > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related
>> services
>> >
>> > IaaS Cloud Design & Build<
>> http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
>> > CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
>> > CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
>> > CloudStack Software Engineering<
>> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
>> > CloudStack Infrastructure Support<
>> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
>> > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<
>> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
>> >
>> > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
>> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any
>> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
>> necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you
>> are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any
>> action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please
>> contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error.
>> Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue
>> Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated under
>> license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
>> company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape
>> Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic of
>> South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is
>> a registered trademark.
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Pierre-Luc Dion <pd...@cloudops.com>.
I really like Sebastien concept of Container as workload because it could
be used into an existing cloud without introducing a new hypervisor, also,
it might be possible to reuse current networking features of cloudstack.






On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 6:35 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
> > On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Diwas,
> >
> > The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they are
> > similar (containers). This of course would have some limitations wrt
> > supporting various network models and disk operations such as taking
> > snapshot and migrations across hosts.
> >
> > ((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
> > community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another interesting
> > project.))
> >
> > Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) will be,
> > assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone
> > technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high level
> > systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing to use are
> > stable enough.
> >
> > While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way to do
> > it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:
> >
> > - Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or maybe
> > OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
> > - SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
> > - Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations such as -
> > upload/register template, create VMs using template.
> > - Console proxy support (if possible).
> >
> > Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out best way
> > to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of the work is
> > limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.
> >
> > For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see how
> > plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation or see this
> > commit:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd651b1d809811157
> >
>
> I understand why we you would like to do this, however I see Docker as a
> ‘workload’. It is easy to setup in a VM or bare metal.
> The Docker ecosystem is booming and there are a ton of Docker
> “orchestrator” being worked on. It seems to me it will be very difficult to
> keep up development of a proper docker management service in CloudStack.
>
> Personally, I’d rather see us put efforts in properly supporting all the
> new Docker customized OS (making cloudstack templates for them), fixing our
> cloudinit support and extending our API to create clusters of machines.
> That way it will be easy for CloudStack users to start a Docker cluster and
> use their docker container orchestrator of choice.
>
> Very much like if you want to deploy Mesos or the like in CloudStack,
> Docker orchestrators are really workloads in our clouds.
>
> Our strategy for Docker support should be to make it extremely easy for
> folks to use Docker in CloudStack VMs. Do things like Docker machine
> support, Docker swarm support etc….and if we want a tighter integration we
> should look at the AWS ECS API and the GCE container engine API and extend
> our EC2/GCE bridges to support them.
>
> my 2 cts.
>
> >
> > On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
> >> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google
> summer of
> >> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about
> the
> >> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
> >>
> >> regards
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Rohit Yadav
> > Software Architect, ShapeBlue
> > M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
> > Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab
> > PS. If you see any footer below, I did not add it :)
> > Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related
> services
> >
> > IaaS Cloud Design & Build<
> http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> > CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> > CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> > CloudStack Software Engineering<
> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> > CloudStack Infrastructure Support<
> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> > CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<
> http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> >
> > This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are
> intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any
> views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not
> necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you
> are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any
> action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please
> contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error.
> Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue
> Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated under
> license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a
> company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape
> Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic of
> South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is
> a registered trademark.
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Mar 18, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Diwas,
> 
> The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they are
> similar (containers). This of course would have some limitations wrt
> supporting various network models and disk operations such as taking
> snapshot and migrations across hosts.
> 
> ((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
> community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another interesting
> project.))
> 
> Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) will be,
> assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone
> technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high level
> systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing to use are
> stable enough.
> 
> While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way to do
> it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:
> 
> - Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or maybe
> OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
> - SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
> - Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations such as -
> upload/register template, create VMs using template.
> - Console proxy support (if possible).
> 
> Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out best way
> to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of the work is
> limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.
> 
> For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see how
> plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation or see this
> commit:
> 
> https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd651b1d809811157
> 

I understand why we you would like to do this, however I see Docker as a ‘workload’. It is easy to setup in a VM or bare metal.
The Docker ecosystem is booming and there are a ton of Docker “orchestrator” being worked on. It seems to me it will be very difficult to keep up development of a proper docker management service in CloudStack.

Personally, I’d rather see us put efforts in properly supporting all the new Docker customized OS (making cloudstack templates for them), fixing our cloudinit support and extending our API to create clusters of machines. That way it will be easy for CloudStack users to start a Docker cluster and use their docker container orchestrator of choice.

Very much like if you want to deploy Mesos or the like in CloudStack, Docker orchestrators are really workloads in our clouds.

Our strategy for Docker support should be to make it extremely easy for folks to use Docker in CloudStack VMs. Do things like Docker machine support, Docker swarm support etc….and if we want a tighter integration we should look at the AWS ECS API and the GCE container engine API and extend our EC2/GCE bridges to support them.

my 2 cts.

> 
> On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
>> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of
>> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the
>> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
>> 
>> regards
>> 
> 
> --
> Regards,
> Rohit Yadav
> Software Architect, ShapeBlue
> M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
> Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab
> PS. If you see any footer below, I did not add it :)
> Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related services
> 
> IaaS Cloud Design & Build<http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
> CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
> CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
> CloudStack Software Engineering<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
> CloudStack Infrastructure Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
> CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>
> 
> This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic of South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Rohit Yadav <ro...@shapeblue.com>.
Hi Diwas,

The idea is to support Docker in ACS, much like LXC since they are
similar (containers). This of course would have some limitations wrt
supporting various network models and disk operations such as taking
snapshot and migrations across hosts.

((Btw, you may also consider supporting Bhyve (VMM from FreeBSD
community) in CloudStack using libvirt which is another interesting
project.))

Irrespective of what base OS (RancherOS, CoreOS or Atomic etc) will be,
assume it will be at least Linux 3.16. Assume using barebone
technologies instead of relying on other orchestration or high level
systems to control Docker images unless what you're willing to use are
stable enough.

While it's an open discussion on what the scope or the best way to do
it; IMO, the basic things I'm looking for are:

- Support Basic networking (supporting at least Linux bridge or maybe
OVS - I'm not sure the best way to do it)
- SystemVMs can be Docker based or VMs running on KVM
- Local or NFS based shared storage. Support basic operations such as -
upload/register template, create VMs using template.
- Console proxy support (if possible).

Since most players in the docker arena are still figuring out best way
to deal with networking and storage, the expectation of the work is
limited to producing an experimental hypervisor plugin.

For implementation details, read CloudStack 101 on the wiki, see how
plugins are written and follow the LXC plugin implementation or see this
commit:

https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/commit/c27c69438ba23386bac7ae4dd651b1d809811157


On Monday 16 March 2015 02:53 AM, Diwas Joshi wrote:
> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of
> code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the
> idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
>
> regards
>

--
Regards,
Rohit Yadav
Software Architect, ShapeBlue
M. +91 8826230892 | rohit.yadav@shapeblue.com
Blog: bhaisaab.org | Twitter: @_bhaisaab
PS. If you see any footer below, I did not add it :)
Find out more about ShapeBlue and our range of CloudStack related services

IaaS Cloud Design & Build<http://shapeblue.com/iaas-cloud-design-and-build//>
CSForge – rapid IaaS deployment framework<http://shapeblue.com/csforge/>
CloudStack Consulting<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-consultancy/>
CloudStack Software Engineering<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-software-engineering/>
CloudStack Infrastructure Support<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-infrastructure-support/>
CloudStack Bootcamp Training Courses<http://shapeblue.com/cloudstack-training/>

This email and any attachments to it may be confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions expressed are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Shape Blue Ltd or related companies. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you must neither take any action based upon its contents, nor copy or show it to anyone. Please contact the sender if you believe you have received this email in error. Shape Blue Ltd is a company incorporated in England & Wales. ShapeBlue Services India LLP is a company incorporated in India and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. Shape Blue Brasil Consultoria Ltda is a company incorporated in Brasil and is operated under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue SA Pty Ltd is a company registered by The Republic of South Africa and is traded under license from Shape Blue Ltd. ShapeBlue is a registered trademark.

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by cs user <ac...@gmail.com>.
I'd really love to see this. CoreOS seems pretty well developed, with etcd
and fleet.

I envisage you would have clusters/pods of CoreOS machines with Cloudstack
managing etcd discovery.

Perhaps you could then define fleet unit files and have Cloudstack launch
these on the CoreOS cluster.




On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Nux! <nu...@li.nux.ro> wrote:

> I had a look at Atomic, the CentOS image should theoretically work with
> Cloudstack; but in practice it does not (cloud-init fails).
> When I'll get some more time I'll look more into it and perhaps we can get
> that fixed.
>
> --
> Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!
>
> Nux!
> www.nux.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sebastien Goasguen" <ru...@gmail.com>
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Sent: Monday, 16 March, 2015 07:33:34
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack (
> CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>
> >> On Mar 16, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Kishan Kavala <Ki...@citrix.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> CoreOS is supported on CS. Templates are available here:
> >> http://dl.openvm.eu/cloudstack/coreos/x86_64/
> >>
> >
> > There and on the official coreOS download site. It’s been available for
> a while
> > now.
> >
> > It would be very nice for someone to look at creating CS templates for
> Atomic,
> > Snappy and coreOS …
> >
> > We should have all docker minimal OS supported under CloudStack.
> >
> >> Still, I think it is working exploring Docker as a hypervisor also.
> >>
> >> Tuna stared some work on this earlier:
> >>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Supporting+Docker+as+a+hypervisor
> >> http://ngtuna.blogspot.in/2013/12/docker-in-cloudstack.html
> >>
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-6664
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Koushik Das [mailto:koushik.das@citrix.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:49 AM
> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack (
> CloudStack
> >> / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
> >>
> >> This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/.
> CS needs
> >> to support CoreOS.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack (
> CloudStack /
> >> CLOUDSTACK-8205)
> >>
> >> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google
> summer of code
> >> 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the
> idea and
> >> provide guidelines to get started with this.
> >>
> > > regards
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Nux! <nu...@li.nux.ro>.
I had a look at Atomic, the CentOS image should theoretically work with Cloudstack; but in practice it does not (cloud-init fails).
When I'll get some more time I'll look more into it and perhaps we can get that fixed.

--
Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology!

Nux!
www.nux.ro

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sebastien Goasguen" <ru...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, 16 March, 2015 07:33:34
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

>> On Mar 16, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Kishan Kavala <Ki...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> 
>> CoreOS is supported on CS. Templates are available here:
>> http://dl.openvm.eu/cloudstack/coreos/x86_64/
>> 
> 
> There and on the official coreOS download site. It’s been available for a while
> now.
> 
> It would be very nice for someone to look at creating CS templates for Atomic,
> Snappy and coreOS …
> 
> We should have all docker minimal OS supported under CloudStack.
> 
>> Still, I think it is working exploring Docker as a hypervisor also.
>> 
>> Tuna stared some work on this earlier:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Supporting+Docker+as+a+hypervisor
>> http://ngtuna.blogspot.in/2013/12/docker-in-cloudstack.html
>> 
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-6664
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Koushik Das [mailto:koushik.das@citrix.com]
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:49 AM
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack
>> / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>> 
>> This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/. CS needs
>> to support CoreOS.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack /
>> CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>> 
>> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of code
>> 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the idea and
>> provide guidelines to get started with this.
>> 
> > regards

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Mar 16, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Mar 16, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Kishan Kavala <Ki...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> 
>> CoreOS is supported on CS. Templates are available here: http://dl.openvm.eu/cloudstack/coreos/x86_64/
>> 
> 
> There and on the official coreOS download site. It’s been available for a while now.
> 
> It would be very nice for someone to look at creating CS templates for Atomic, Snappy and coreOS …

I meant rancherOS.

> 
> We should have all docker minimal OS supported under CloudStack.
> 
>> Still, I think it is working exploring Docker as a hypervisor also.
>> 
>> Tuna stared some work on this earlier:
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Supporting+Docker+as+a+hypervisor
>> http://ngtuna.blogspot.in/2013/12/docker-in-cloudstack.html
>> 
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-6664
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Koushik Das [mailto:koushik.das@citrix.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:49 AM
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>> 
>> This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/. CS needs to support CoreOS.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com] 
>> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
>> 
>> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
>> 
>> regards
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Sebastien Goasguen <ru...@gmail.com>.
> On Mar 16, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Kishan Kavala <Ki...@citrix.com> wrote:
> 
> CoreOS is supported on CS. Templates are available here: http://dl.openvm.eu/cloudstack/coreos/x86_64/
> 

There and on the official coreOS download site. It’s been available for a while now.

It would be very nice for someone to look at creating CS templates for Atomic, Snappy and coreOS …

We should have all docker minimal OS supported under CloudStack.

> Still, I think it is working exploring Docker as a hypervisor also.
> 
> Tuna stared some work on this earlier:
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Supporting+Docker+as+a+hypervisor
> http://ngtuna.blogspot.in/2013/12/docker-in-cloudstack.html
> 
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-6664
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Koushik Das [mailto:koushik.das@citrix.com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:49 AM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
> 
> This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/. CS needs to support CoreOS.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)
> 
> hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.
> 
> regards

RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Kishan Kavala <Ki...@citrix.com>.
CoreOS is supported on CS. Templates are available here: http://dl.openvm.eu/cloudstack/coreos/x86_64/

Still, I think it is working exploring Docker as a hypervisor also.

Tuna stared some work on this earlier:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Supporting+Docker+as+a+hypervisor
http://ngtuna.blogspot.in/2013/12/docker-in-cloudstack.html

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-6664


-----Original Message-----
From: Koushik Das [mailto:koushik.das@citrix.com] 
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2015 10:49 AM
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/. CS needs to support CoreOS.

-----Original Message-----
From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.

regards

RE: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

Posted by Koushik Das <ko...@citrix.com>.
This is another alternate https://coreos.com/using-coreos/containers/. CS needs to support CoreOS.

-----Original Message-----
From: Diwas Joshi [mailto:dj.dij123@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, 16 March 2015 2:53
To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
Subject: [DISCUSS] Support Docker as a hypervisor in CloudStack ( CloudStack / CLOUDSTACK-8205)

hello, I would like to work on the following issue for
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CLOUDSTACK-8205 for google summer of code 2015. It would be really helpful if someone can tell me more about the idea and provide guidelines to get started with this.

regards