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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Om <bi...@gmail.com> on 2013/02/13 00:59:17 UTC
Radiate
Jude,
This looks fantastic. And it looks well thought out as well. We've had
some discussions in the past on this list about a tool like this. Do you
have any plans of contributing it to Apache Flex? I would be interested in
in helping expand this tool. I am a spread out a bit too think with the
Installer, tracking, etc. and my Stage3D experimentation. But building a
designer/developer tool like this really interests me.
In past discussions, Michael Schmalle had mentioned that combining such a
tool with Falcon's capabilities would make for very interesting
possibilities [1]
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Om
[1] http://markmail.org/message/65w7vra4a6qmqq6s
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've kindof been sitting on this for a while but I thought I'd put it out
> there. I'd like to create a design and development tool for designers and
> developers. Usually, you have a really good development tool with adequate
> design tools or a really good design tool with adequate or no development.
> If Flash Catalyst and FB had continued I'm sure it would have arrived close
> to the tool I'd like to build and use. I'd say close because I would add in
> some things like behaviors and other things that may not fit into a design
> or development only product but would make sense in a combined tool and in
> the context of the workflow of daily design and development work.
>
> This is a little demo I think I shared at one point,
> http://www.radii8.com/demo/. I've been working on this for a while and it
> grew mainly out of the need to see what a change looked like without
> recompiling (and for other reasons obviously). It's just a prototype (and
> it's breakable). Click New Project. Drag components from the components
> panel on to the stage. Set properties. Notice the document tree structure
> as it's being built in the document panel. Scroll down and you'll see a
> properties panel, constraint panel, a history panel with undo and redo and
> a few others. It's no where near where I want it to be.
>
> What's not shown but partially working is a timeline view (to view and play
> effects), get color under mouse, console, walk up the component tree
> outline view and style inheritance information view. You can use some of
> these features in this drop in class now,
>
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/utils/MiniInspector.as
> .
> I use this class everyday. Add it to your application, set the options and
> at runtime command click on a visual element. More of my hopes are here,
> http://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=2.
>
> If I could summarize what Polygeek said when asked how he designed things,
> "First I think of how I'd like it in a perfect world and then work towards
> that". That.
> *I think that's right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr <flex.masuland@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks Paul ... made a remark on this.
> >
> > --
> > Sebastian (PPMC)
> > Interaction Designer
> >
> > Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code:
> > http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Paul Hastings <paul.hastings@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > On 2/6/2013 7:47 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sorry ... forgot to add the link to the "Designer &
> > >> Developer Tools" wiki page [1] ;) Any remarks
> > >> welcome :)
> > >>
> > >
> > > FB4.6 can't use MXML design view w/apache flex 4.9.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Radiate
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Om, et alii. I don't know what to do. I don't have an answer at this
point. I'm kindof looking to see what others want and / or need and if it's
something we sustain.
Here are goals I'm aiming for:
• keeping it in the browser (there can be other versions but a browser
version is a must)
• staying design focused to start (export / import of skins)
• import / export of applications
• keeping the dom agnostic
• live preview on various target devices
Peter makes a good point here <http://markmail.org/message/asut3edgtbxipuvp>on:
*Apple now uses something it calls "Storyboards" (more advanced nibs) which
makes it very easy to separate the design from the function. Apple's UI
Designer plugin to Xcode needs more work to allow for complete styling, but
it does provide this separation where the description of the UI is
independent of the code. An iOS universal app can be a single executable
with multiple Storyboards using the same classes for iPhone and iPad but
uses them in different ways depending on which Storyboard is loaded.*
But I'd want to bring in that code through code libraries (swfs with your
code in it) or database support. I actually don't like using the filesystem
to manage and store code. I've used an IDE in the past that used an Access
database file to hold a project and all it's code and when I opened that
database it was enlightening. The project made sense on a high level. Of
course, it had to enforce some restrictions to keep things organized but it
was nothing compared to what you got in return. Think about if you could
work on a Flex project where the source was hosted on a server. Working on
a team you could see who was working on what. See the code changed live.
You could have the server do all of the heavy lifting. The client app could
be nimble because it would only have to display what you wanted to see or
work on. Changes could be saved live. You could always fall back to a local
version or download a copy of the database / project to work on offline.
On the other hand that path makes sense to me because I'm familiar with
those things and I can see how I would make it work. But that decision and
that way is a long way off.
Right now it's not writing or saving anything. What it is doing is reading
in a SWF and generating a component tree or component document object model
(CDOM). That is, it's generating the component tree based on the structure
of the Flex documents you work with in Flash Builder and not the display
list. With this model you can map the UI element with it's file. You could
theoretically edit the document given the project source path, it's ID and
if it was an AIR app or in the IDE (of course). That's from runtime
information. If it was a debug SWF it might contain much more information.
It can also generate the component tree in a new project as it's being
built. It doesn't store any of the property changes on the components in
the component tree at this point but it would take maybe ten minutes to do
this and a little more to export it to MXML. I'm getting off topic. Maybe
some more clarity will come in time.
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Om <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jude,
>
> This looks fantastic. And it looks well thought out as well. We've had
> some discussions in the past on this list about a tool like this. Do you
> have any plans of contributing it to Apache Flex? I would be interested in
> in helping expand this tool. I am a spread out a bit too think with the
> Installer, tracking, etc. and my Stage3D experimentation. But building a
> designer/developer tool like this really interests me.
>
> In past discussions, Michael Schmalle had mentioned that combining such a
> tool with Falcon's capabilities would make for very interesting
> possibilities [1]
>
> Please let me know your thoughts.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/65w7vra4a6qmqq6s
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've kindof been sitting on this for a while but I thought I'd put it out
> > there. I'd like to create a design and development tool for designers and
> > developers. Usually, you have a really good development tool with
> adequate
> > design tools or a really good design tool with adequate or no
> development.
> > If Flash Catalyst and FB had continued I'm sure it would have arrived
> close
> > to the tool I'd like to build and use. I'd say close because I would add
> in
> > some things like behaviors and other things that may not fit into a
> design
> > or development only product but would make sense in a combined tool and
> in
> > the context of the workflow of daily design and development work.
> >
> > This is a little demo I think I shared at one point,
> > http://www.radii8.com/demo/. I've been working on this for a while and
> it
> > grew mainly out of the need to see what a change looked like without
> > recompiling (and for other reasons obviously). It's just a prototype (and
> > it's breakable). Click New Project. Drag components from the components
> > panel on to the stage. Set properties. Notice the document tree structure
> > as it's being built in the document panel. Scroll down and you'll see a
> > properties panel, constraint panel, a history panel with undo and redo
> and
> > a few others. It's no where near where I want it to be.
> >
> > What's not shown but partially working is a timeline view (to view and
> play
> > effects), get color under mouse, console, walk up the component tree
> > outline view and style inheritance information view. You can use some of
> > these features in this drop in class now,
> >
> >
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/src/com/flexcapacitor/utils/MiniInspector.as
> > .
> > I use this class everyday. Add it to your application, set the options
> and
> > at runtime command click on a visual element. More of my hopes are here,
> > http://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=2.
> >
> > If I could summarize what Polygeek said when asked how he designed
> things,
> > "First I think of how I'd like it in a perfect world and then work
> towards
> > that". That.
> > *I think that's right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr <flex.masuland@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Paul ... made a remark on this.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sebastian (PPMC)
> > > Interaction Designer
> > >
> > > Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this
> code:
> > > http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Paul Hastings <paul.hastings@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2/6/2013 7:47 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Sorry ... forgot to add the link to the "Designer &
> > > >> Developer Tools" wiki page [1] ;) Any remarks
> > > >> welcome :)
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > FB4.6 can't use MXML design view w/apache flex 4.9.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Re: Radiate
Posted by jude <fl...@gmail.com>.
Hey Sebastian. Really nice! That's what I'm going for. I will post more
information and hopefully have some answer or something more to share in
time.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:15 AM, Sebastian Mohr <fl...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Jude,
>
> as you might remember I have proposed a similiar tool:
> "Thermo MK2" [1] which I also discussed on this mailinglist
> already [2]. For sure: Radiate has more functionality then
> Thermo MK2 ... my respect !!! My hope would be that a
> working group could be founded here which will build a tool
> like this. And I also wished that at least one Adobe guy, who
> was working on Flash Catalyst CS5.5, would be part of this
> working group.
>
> I really hope that we can build a FXG 2.0 compliant design
> tool that would be capable to skin custom SkinnableComponents
> with declared [SkinPart] and [SkinState] tags as shown in
> the screenshots of FlashCatalyst CS5.5 and FlashBuilder 4.6 [3].
>
>
> --
> Sebastian (PPMC)
> Interaction Designer
>
> Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code:
> http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
>
> [1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
> [2]
>
> http://markmail.org/search/?q=+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+thermo+mk2#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev%20thermo%20mk2+page:1+mid:pkiu6zjqh4q4bogc+state:results
> [3]
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Designer+&+Developer+Tools
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:23 AM, Mark Fuqua <ma...@availdata.com> wrote:
>
> > Radiate is super cool...way beyond my ability to contribute but, I'd be
> > happy to purchase a copy when it's finished.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: omuppi1@gmail.com [mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Om
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:59 PM
> > To: dev@flex.apache.org
> > Subject: Radiate
> >
> > Jude,
> >
> > This looks fantastic. And it looks well thought out as well. We've had
> > some discussions in the past on this list about a tool like this. Do you
> > have any plans of contributing it to Apache Flex? I would be interested
> in
> > in helping expand this tool. I am a spread out a bit too think with the
> > Installer, tracking, etc. and my Stage3D experimentation. But building a
> > designer/developer tool like this really interests me.
> >
> > In past discussions, Michael Schmalle had mentioned that combining such a
> > tool with Falcon's capabilities would make for very interesting
> > possibilities [1]
> >
> > Please let me know your thoughts.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Om
> >
> >
> > [1] http://markmail.org/message/65w7vra4a6qmqq6s
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I've kindof been sitting on this for a while but I thought I'd put it
> > > out there. I'd like to create a design and development tool for
> > > designers and developers. Usually, you have a really good development
> > > tool with adequate design tools or a really good design tool with
> > adequate
> > or no development.
> > > If Flash Catalyst and FB had continued I'm sure it would have arrived
> > > close to the tool I'd like to build and use. I'd say close because I
> > > would add in some things like behaviors and other things that may not
> > > fit into a design or development only product but would make sense in
> > > a combined tool and in the context of the workflow of daily design and
> > development work.
> > >
> > > This is a little demo I think I shared at one point,
> > > http://www.radii8.com/demo/. I've been working on this for a while and
> > > it grew mainly out of the need to see what a change looked like
> > > without recompiling (and for other reasons obviously). It's just a
> > > prototype (and it's breakable). Click New Project. Drag components
> > > from the components panel on to the stage. Set properties. Notice the
> > > document tree structure as it's being built in the document panel.
> > > Scroll down and you'll see a properties panel, constraint panel, a
> > > history panel with undo and redo and a few others. It's no where near
> > where I want it to be.
> > >
> > > What's not shown but partially working is a timeline view (to view and
> > > play effects), get color under mouse, console, walk up the component
> > > tree outline view and style inheritance information view. You can use
> > > some of these features in this drop in class now,
> > >
> > > https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/
> > > src/com/flexcapacitor/utils/MiniInspector.as
> > > .
> > > I use this class everyday. Add it to your application, set the options
> > > and at runtime command click on a visual element. More of my hopes are
> > > here, http://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=2.
> > >
> > > If I could summarize what Polygeek said when asked how he designed
> > > things, "First I think of how I'd like it in a perfect world and then
> > > work towards that". That.
> > > *I think that's right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr
> > > <flex.masuland@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks Paul ... made a remark on this.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Sebastian (PPMC)
> > > > Interaction Designer
> > > >
> > > > Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this
> > code:
> > > > http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Paul Hastings
> > > > <paul.hastings@gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 2/6/2013 7:47 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Sorry ... forgot to add the link to the "Designer & Developer
> > > > >> Tools" wiki page [1] ;) Any remarks welcome :)
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > FB4.6 can't use MXML design view w/apache flex 4.9.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
Re: Radiate
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <fl...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jude,
as you might remember I have proposed a similiar tool:
"Thermo MK2" [1] which I also discussed on this mailinglist
already [2]. For sure: Radiate has more functionality then
Thermo MK2 ... my respect !!! My hope would be that a
working group could be founded here which will build a tool
like this. And I also wished that at least one Adobe guy, who
was working on Flash Catalyst CS5.5, would be part of this
working group.
I really hope that we can build a FXG 2.0 compliant design
tool that would be capable to skin custom SkinnableComponents
with declared [SkinPart] and [SkinState] tags as shown in
the screenshots of FlashCatalyst CS5.5 and FlashBuilder 4.6 [3].
--
Sebastian (PPMC)
Interaction Designer
Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this code:
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
[1] http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ThermoMK2
[2]
http://markmail.org/search/?q=+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+thermo+mk2#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev%20thermo%20mk2+page:1+mid:pkiu6zjqh4q4bogc+state:results
[3]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLEX/Designer+&+Developer+Tools
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 2:23 AM, Mark Fuqua <ma...@availdata.com> wrote:
> Radiate is super cool...way beyond my ability to contribute but, I'd be
> happy to purchase a copy when it's finished.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: omuppi1@gmail.com [mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Om
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:59 PM
> To: dev@flex.apache.org
> Subject: Radiate
>
> Jude,
>
> This looks fantastic. And it looks well thought out as well. We've had
> some discussions in the past on this list about a tool like this. Do you
> have any plans of contributing it to Apache Flex? I would be interested in
> in helping expand this tool. I am a spread out a bit too think with the
> Installer, tracking, etc. and my Stage3D experimentation. But building a
> designer/developer tool like this really interests me.
>
> In past discussions, Michael Schmalle had mentioned that combining such a
> tool with Falcon's capabilities would make for very interesting
> possibilities [1]
>
> Please let me know your thoughts.
>
> Thanks,
> Om
>
>
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/65w7vra4a6qmqq6s
>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've kindof been sitting on this for a while but I thought I'd put it
> > out there. I'd like to create a design and development tool for
> > designers and developers. Usually, you have a really good development
> > tool with adequate design tools or a really good design tool with
> adequate
> or no development.
> > If Flash Catalyst and FB had continued I'm sure it would have arrived
> > close to the tool I'd like to build and use. I'd say close because I
> > would add in some things like behaviors and other things that may not
> > fit into a design or development only product but would make sense in
> > a combined tool and in the context of the workflow of daily design and
> development work.
> >
> > This is a little demo I think I shared at one point,
> > http://www.radii8.com/demo/. I've been working on this for a while and
> > it grew mainly out of the need to see what a change looked like
> > without recompiling (and for other reasons obviously). It's just a
> > prototype (and it's breakable). Click New Project. Drag components
> > from the components panel on to the stage. Set properties. Notice the
> > document tree structure as it's being built in the document panel.
> > Scroll down and you'll see a properties panel, constraint panel, a
> > history panel with undo and redo and a few others. It's no where near
> where I want it to be.
> >
> > What's not shown but partially working is a timeline view (to view and
> > play effects), get color under mouse, console, walk up the component
> > tree outline view and style inheritance information view. You can use
> > some of these features in this drop in class now,
> >
> > https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/
> > src/com/flexcapacitor/utils/MiniInspector.as
> > .
> > I use this class everyday. Add it to your application, set the options
> > and at runtime command click on a visual element. More of my hopes are
> > here, http://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=2.
> >
> > If I could summarize what Polygeek said when asked how he designed
> > things, "First I think of how I'd like it in a perfect world and then
> > work towards that". That.
> > *I think that's right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr
> > <flex.masuland@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Paul ... made a remark on this.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sebastian (PPMC)
> > > Interaction Designer
> > >
> > > Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this
> code:
> > > http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Paul Hastings
> > > <paul.hastings@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 2/6/2013 7:47 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Sorry ... forgot to add the link to the "Designer & Developer
> > > >> Tools" wiki page [1] ;) Any remarks welcome :)
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > FB4.6 can't use MXML design view w/apache flex 4.9.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
RE: Radiate
Posted by Mark Fuqua <ma...@availdata.com>.
Radiate is super cool...way beyond my ability to contribute but, I'd be
happy to purchase a copy when it's finished.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: omuppi1@gmail.com [mailto:omuppi1@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Om
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 6:59 PM
To: dev@flex.apache.org
Subject: Radiate
Jude,
This looks fantastic. And it looks well thought out as well. We've had
some discussions in the past on this list about a tool like this. Do you
have any plans of contributing it to Apache Flex? I would be interested in
in helping expand this tool. I am a spread out a bit too think with the
Installer, tracking, etc. and my Stage3D experimentation. But building a
designer/developer tool like this really interests me.
In past discussions, Michael Schmalle had mentioned that combining such a
tool with Falcon's capabilities would make for very interesting
possibilities [1]
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Om
[1] http://markmail.org/message/65w7vra4a6qmqq6s
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 1:03 AM, jude <fl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've kindof been sitting on this for a while but I thought I'd put it
> out there. I'd like to create a design and development tool for
> designers and developers. Usually, you have a really good development
> tool with adequate design tools or a really good design tool with adequate
or no development.
> If Flash Catalyst and FB had continued I'm sure it would have arrived
> close to the tool I'd like to build and use. I'd say close because I
> would add in some things like behaviors and other things that may not
> fit into a design or development only product but would make sense in
> a combined tool and in the context of the workflow of daily design and
development work.
>
> This is a little demo I think I shared at one point,
> http://www.radii8.com/demo/. I've been working on this for a while and
> it grew mainly out of the need to see what a change looked like
> without recompiling (and for other reasons obviously). It's just a
> prototype (and it's breakable). Click New Project. Drag components
> from the components panel on to the stage. Set properties. Notice the
> document tree structure as it's being built in the document panel.
> Scroll down and you'll see a properties panel, constraint panel, a
> history panel with undo and redo and a few others. It's no where near
where I want it to be.
>
> What's not shown but partially working is a timeline view (to view and
> play effects), get color under mouse, console, walk up the component
> tree outline view and style inheritance information view. You can use
> some of these features in this drop in class now,
>
> https://github.com/monkeypunch3/flexcapacitor/blob/master/MainLibrary/
> src/com/flexcapacitor/utils/MiniInspector.as
> .
> I use this class everyday. Add it to your application, set the options
> and at runtime command click on a visual element. More of my hopes are
> here, http://www.radii8.com/blog/?page_id=2.
>
> If I could summarize what Polygeek said when asked how he designed
> things, "First I think of how I'd like it in a perfect world and then
> work towards that". That.
> *I think that's right. Correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr
> <flex.masuland@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks Paul ... made a remark on this.
> >
> > --
> > Sebastian (PPMC)
> > Interaction Designer
> >
> > Looking for a Login Example with Apache Flex? Please check out this
code:
> > http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 8:00 PM, Paul Hastings
> > <paul.hastings@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > On 2/6/2013 7:47 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> > >
> > >> Sorry ... forgot to add the link to the "Designer & Developer
> > >> Tools" wiki page [1] ;) Any remarks welcome :)
> > >>
> > >
> > > FB4.6 can't use MXML design view w/apache flex 4.9.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>